So roll tape roll.
Yeah. And then but you know, we still have to start, you know,
the way that what people never hear on the show. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, whatever that means hit it. Adam curry, John C. Dvorak.
It's Thursday, July 12 2012. Time for a media assassination
of the no agenda Show Episode Four to five. This is no agenda,
pretending to be live on the best podcast in the universe,
but really just faking it, because I'm getting married in
the morning. I'm Adam curry,
and from Northern Silicon Valley where he's getting married in
the morning. You're kidding me. I'm John C. Dvorak. Buzzkill.
So finally, people on the podcast heard hit it.
That was my that was tough to hear. Hit it normal. No,
thanks for listening to the show.
Usually starts off with me saying some stupid that you
found in the show. And then you ran run the Yeah,
believe it or not hard to find that.
So we're doing show 200.6. Yeah. Which is also show for 25. Which
is ironic, which is actually show 2.5. With addendum. Yes. So
why so what we're going to do for anyone listening, we're
going to play at the show today for 2.5 was an introductory show
that we gave to people that are members of the deuce club. And
we are going to play not the whole thing because there's some
stuff in there that just wasn't is not important. So we took a
little chunk out. And we do some questions and answers. And we're
going to do some questions. We're going to we'll interrupted
right in the middle. And and we're going to talk about how
the show has changed since our analysis, which was almost two
years ago. Yes.
Wasn't really two years ago, I guess it was two years ago. What
was what was the date on that? Actually, did you look at that
because I got the
date. I have it on the other computer. It's thanks July 2009
or
so anyone for anyone who's who's been pointed to this by someone
else? Saying, Oh, if you want to know what these guys are all
about, and you need to listen to this show, which I hope it will
work for you.
Well, maybe we can we I took a lot of notes on the on the show
and the tune of point five shows so we can talk about what's
changed and a lot of things have changed. It was actually the
noise factor. It was shows noisier than it's ever been
may 17 2010. Yeah. So more than two years ago. Yeah. A little
over. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Alright, so we're gonna play that because
it does explain a lot about the history of the show. Why it's so
hard for people who just give it a one off casual listen to get
into it immediately. Because there is definitely some stuff
like Gene goals and some top 40 radio type stuff, which seems a
little bit out of place. What we do how we do it, and it
definitely needs updating because a lot has changed in my
life since May 17 2010. I think for you probably nothing has
changed. It's just
got the Samsung in the same chair.
Alright, so we'll be back. No, no skipping ahead. Now you'll
enjoy listening to it again. And we'll be back right in the
middle of it. Yep, here is no agenda episode. 200.5 Adam
curry, John C. Dvorak. It's May 16 2010. Time for Gitmo nation
media assassination episode 200.5. This is no agenda.
Welcome to a special backstage tour of the no agenda Show
coming to you from the hilltop Watchtower crock pot command
center and get my nation West in the People's Republic of
Southern California. Yay. In the morning, I'm Adam curry.
And it's not really a media assassination today. It's a no
agenda assassination of John C. Dvorak. And Buzzkill. We still
get to say in the morning, yeah, definitely, in the morning never
goes away. You know, the thing is, we should tell people since
this is really a show where we're just essentially going to
talk about the show and we're going to ask answer a lot of
questions and probably ask some but you know, the one of the
things you should immediately note we actually had the debate
as to whether we're going to play the opening. We jingle
it's kind of sad that we didn't put the debate on the backstage
show. This is kind of where we Yeah, I think on this show which
is driven by support from our producers slash donors
supporters where we kind of bare at all not that we have any
secrets I don't think but people just want to know a lot of stuff
that we don't put into the show because little known facts, we
make it look easy.
And also a lot of this personal stuff that they're asking
because we I sent out a message on Twitter to get some questions
and we also got a couple of emails in You've worked up some
questions yourself. To be honest about it. A lot of it is just
plain boring.
Yes, indeed, you know, John and I have been in. In fact, you've
said this on episode 200. We've been in media in all forms of
media from print, you've probably been around
typesetting.
Actual. I used to be a typesetter part time when I was
in college. So
it doesn't surprise me all the way through to today's reality
based television programming and everything in between on
mainstream media. And I would say, Well, I certainly gave up a
number of years ago, and I am patently on hireable by
mainstream media. In fact, the last,
especially after you did that CNBC thing? Well,
yeah, that's right. When I said Michael Jackson was probably
killed, and they cut me off. And of course, now it turns out, he
probably was. But yeah, the last radio station I was on, which
was around the time we started the show, actually, in fact,
no, you were doing this that show while we're doing this
show,
here, but I think we started this show. Yeah. But I've only
done a couple like a week or two. And then we started doing
this show, right? I was doing that first was No, no, I think
you were fired during I was fired during we were doing no
agenda when I was fired. But it only just started that show.
Yeah, no, I think we did it for about a month.
So I was trying to think back, because that was I think 26 of
either October or November 2007. The first episode was like 35
minutes. The good old days. Yeah, I was living in London,
which did give the show a very different flavor. I have to say
I was also baked out of my mind.
Right. Although, you know, to be honest about it. I don't think
that was apparent. And I actually argue with you. I don't
think you've personally changed that much from stop since you
stopped smoking.
Right. But I Well, there's a couple of episodes there where I
remember one time I actually went off on some tangent and I
said, Dude, I'm so baked. Yeah. But yeah, I
do remember that.
The personality that Well, I'm happy to hear that. I'm just
more awake. And I can do more and I'm more focused.
Yeah. And you finally got a rig that makes me sound decent.
Yeah, but that's
well, you know, in there we had we had a pretty good setup. It
sounds okay. But this is the best one. I have to say. This is
definitely the best one. So now we met at, I guess, what did we
meet John was on cranky hands.
Gents. Dan gents.com on Twitter asked the question. The real
DeVore I can curry have a unique relationship? How did you guys
meet? So when did you hit it off? Right away?
I'll tell you something I found in my crap that arrived from
from the UK I found a videotape of the CNET pilots, where we
actually first met for the very first time, although that was in
1993. Three or four maybe
think was three?
Yeah. And I'm gonna get one of those VHS to DVR things to
transcode all this stuff. But this was when CNET did not have
a website. In fact, I registered cnet.com and said to Halsey
minor, Hey, dude, you know, I'll do your email, if you want, you
know, you might want to have a web thing that I think that
would be more appropriate for what you're doing here. But all
right, they paid me like 20 grand to do that pilot, which
was nice. And you were doing kind of a McLaughlin Group Type
roundtable as the pilot for that show.
Yeah, they I that's kind of interesting. Because with CNET,
they actually went through a whole bunch of people before
they decided they wanted me to do it. And I didn't really want
to do it. I actually, to be honest, I never wanted to work
for CNET. But I did like the idea of watching Kevin Wendell
at work once they brought him he was he was the guy from Fox.
Yeah, he's a guy from somewhere. He's a Hollywood guy.
You'd set up the Fox network. He he was one of the driving
programming forces behind Fox
early. I don't remember that. Whatever the case was, he was a
slick operator. And it was fun to watch him work. And but they
first wanted Leo Laporte to be the McLaughlin guy. And Leo
wanted to do it. Badly. He was always wanted that tore that
sort of gig. And because but it's because very serious, and
it's, you know, this and that. And but they had me do it. But
that never got off the ground. It just wasn't going to work.
And so then they gave me some other job being a kind of a
clownish co host with a gene at St. John's. Oh, yeah.
Well, they offered me to move out to San Francisco and be
there full time. And they offered like really low salary,
but 2 million shares of stock and I declined.
Yeah. That was an error. Well, who
knows what you know, I
was like, Well, yeah, no, it's a crapshoot. I did the same thing.
I said, How many how many shares outstanding Wow. vague, right? I
was like, Yeah, I got a pretty good thing here at MTV. I'm
good.
So anyway, so we met 93. Casually, casually, very
casually. But you know, we followed each other's careers a
little bit. But then I was kind of triggered by that when you
had your moment of richness. And I was floating around Europe,
and I ran into a newspaper with one of these, one of these
papers, I think it was a Dutch story somewhere. And it had a
picture of you and your Euro, some superstar in Holland. And
this is unbelievable. So this guy makes so much money. Yeah.
And so then you showed up in town again. And so then we just
got you just kind of forced myself I
was it, wasn't it? A Yes. And that was nice. But wasn't it a
wasn't on cranky geeks when we connected?
No, I think we met up first and then I put you on cranky geeks.
But where the hell was it, John? Because well, we,
I we did some an email exchange. And I said, Let's go have lunch
or something. We added our first or lunch our initial the
remeeting lunch at differing guile. And we talked about you
know, getting some getting a daily news show the tech five
thing ideas like that. And then I then we went and had a big
meeting with Ron in the office. Yeah. You aren't cranky geeks.
After that.
I'm trying to look now in my email, if I have something from
you from that must have been 2007. Right?
Probably not.
How do you do that? Gmail? Do you do date? 2007?
I don't know. Anyway, that's the basically the story. And then we
we, I don't know, within a week, I just say we just kind of
naturally got
I really don't know, that's the answer. We really don't know how
that happened. We actually
get along just in some funny way. It's not really
explainable. It's like, you know, you meet somebody, and
you've all you've known them for a long time. So you know, that
they're obviously not assassins. Of course, that may not be true.
But whatever the case is, you you've always had, you know, you
had an acquaintance. And then you decide that, you know, now
you're working together. It's almost like, you know, where
people meet on a Hollywood set, and they're hanging out a lot.
And then they go off their separate ways. But instead of
going off our separate ways, since we're both looking at me,
VO We decided to start doing a show. And that now it's
debatable is that you know, how it got named when we started?
I think I came up with a name.
I don't know if that's true. I think you're the one that
approved the name. But you gotta tell me it was your brain fart?
I think it was I say, well, we got you know why we got no
agenda? And then you said let's call it no agenda. That sounds
about right, actually. And it sounds good. Something like
that. And then, and then it as it evolved, we got into other
things, which are kind of the same kind of like, we don't
know, who came up with the idea. I mean, the donation thing?
Well,
before we get to that, because the show started off with a very
different format. It was in fact, I think our first show was
on a Friday, and like a Friday afternoon, Friday morning for
you. And we would just talk about stuff. And I would grab
the Financial Times. But we could also just talk about
stuff, you know, the difference between America and Europe.
Right? And it was just like a casual
conversation, just like a conversation. Yeah, and this
was, in my opinion, I've always felt that a two guys interesting
conversation between two people is interesting to everybody. And
I've always believed I could sell conversations I have with
my wife. And I always felt that a good conversational show where
there's not a lot of rehearsal or preparation, but just guys
who just talking about stuff that they know a lot about. And
coincidentally, because the two of us are so extremely well
traveled. And I mean, pretty much been everywhere, and and
observant because, you know, we're generally floating around
looking at stuff. It turns out that we have enough life
experience to to have an interesting conversation. And
we're both have slightly different backgrounds. So we
could complement each other in ways that I thought was
interesting for those people to listen in on.
Yeah, and from my perspective, I was looking to do a show with
total honesty. Not in the regard of oh, let's all hold hands and
tell each other a secret. But more like, you know, why don't
we just say what it is and not be fake and just talk about
stuff. And we can contradict and we can have an argument and we
don't have to in fact, we had no no thoughts even think about
making money doing no agenda. Yeah, we had absolutely no
agenda. And and I was just happy that someone would listen to my
bullshit. Like, hey, here's a guy who actually knows more than
me, because he's been around longer for sure. And, and, and
will listen to some of the because I think I was I was
maybe a late bloomer. I was like, saying, oh, wait a minute,
the world kind of works a little bit differently. Because I was
so embedded in the hits. You know, that's all I did. I played
hits on radio on television, like, you know, I knew what what
all the celebrities were doing and all of a sudden like, this,
this is there's something else going went on here.
I think I corrupted you more than you corrupted me when it
comes to this show. Correct? I would agree. Mainly because of
my natural cynicism. I, you know, I took a test one, there's
a guy who was a computer software program some years ago,
I've always found it fascinating. That was a career
guidance. It was almost like it was a very elaborate test to
computer test you to answer a million questions. It was like
an MMPI, or Minnesota multi phase Personality Inventory that
people take in some companies. It's actually an illegal test,
you shouldn't be forced to take it. But it can tell whether
you're a psycho and all these other things. And this was the
determine what your what your career path should be. And I
took the test a couple of times, and it was the weirdest thing to
get back at the top of a career pad. This is telling you, this
is what you should go be doing. Press critic.
Really? Yeah. That's awesome. That's really good.
I like that. So anyway, so yeah, we've got that thing. We when we
started, there's a couple of, you know,
I got like hand worker on all my tests, shoveling shit, boy, you
shouldn't be in any kind of business,
you might be surprised that test was pretty amazing. I had other
people taking it was just like nailing people left and right. I
wish I could, if I could find it in my archives, you can find it
I'll be producing a modern format. It'd be nice. So anyway,
we started the show with just casually and it had a it really
started picking up a following quickly. And people were feeding
back into the mechanism, encouraging the continuation of
the show. And then somewhere along the line, this was your
idea. I'm sure of it. Because it could have been mine. You
decided to do two shows a week?
Yeah. I don't remember why.
And there were some reason because I think we're starting
to show we're starting to get along and get along and
we said well, why don't we Why don't we do to show actually,
that's when we made a real commitment, though. And for now
that was that was much later in the game. We made a real
commitment to do two shows. After we we said hey, you know,
this is real. We're building an audience. But I think we were
going for a good year there just on one show, probably
one a year building an audience and we had a kind of a weird
audience because there were really your fans separate from
my fans and my fans who say you you should do the show by
yourself. You should get rid of curry and bucket two to the head
man. We're gonna be getting the same kind of commentary and it's
always made me laugh because it's like, oh, yeah, that's what
you want. Just some guy's solid. By the way, I have never Oh
conversation no pace and flow.
I've never received never received an email of someone
saying you're a bit of a divorce duck ever.
I've seen I have seen the get rid of divorce meme on Twitter,
on Twitter, and I've seen it here and now.
I've never seen it. I've never seen it nice, then.
Well, then your fans are less. Less crazy. Oh, yeah. Hostile.
Okay. So,
at a certain point, though, I think that what what really drew
us together is we're both radio guys at heart. I think we're you
know, and I know I am. And I grew up in Radio Television was
more like a sidetrack for me. I never felt I too tall. I'm too
lanky and too geeky. I have Tourette's there's a whole bunch
of stuff that would make me not ideal for television my head
isn't big enough to be really successful no about that. You
got you got to have a huge not not metaphorically speaking but
physically a huge head that makes you successful on TV.
We've already established that well, but it was our it was our
I think I really our mutual love of radio and the I
love radio. And the reason there's a lot of reasons I think
it should be explored. One is that fact that you don't have
to. It's, it's a different, it's different. I mean, radio is and
this is basically what we're doing is radio and it's a modern
form of radio, podcasting. You don't have to get dressed, you
don't have to scrimp.
More than that. It's theater of the mind is what I like about
it, right.
And you can also write well, the theater of the mind part, which
is extremely valuable. I don't know I mean, my first
broadcasting training was in Ray I went to Foothill College for a
while and went on that was on the radio station. And I just
loved it. I produced a radio play. And I did a lot of radio
was I got a third class license, which you had to have at one
time FCC license. I still have mine. Nobody needs them anymore.
And I've always liked and I'm very kind of a sound not I like
good quality sound, which was always carping on the quality of
this podcast. Even when I was doing when I was doing silicon
spin at Tech TV.
Sound is always forgotten on television. Oh,
yes. And so but as but I made a big stink about it. You because
it sounded so bad. And to have the sound engineers that were
working there were I was their hero.
I know, the hero of the sound engineers,
because the sound engineers couldn't get anybody to listen
to the fact that they were using cheap mics and, and they weren't
doing notching or anything, right. And so the sound, it
sounded like a cheap ass production. Now, the thing
that's interesting is that MIT did during the Negroponte era,
when they had a media lab, they had studied this to death, and
they had double blind studies over and over again, and it kept
coming up. If you take a group of people and have them watch a
TV show with shitty sound, and then have them compare, and then
show another TV show with really great sound like Dolby five
channels longer. No, it's not just that if when they do an
analysis, they claim the pictures better.
That's fantastic. That makes sense. And I'm a sound nut,
although I've had a lot of trouble, just because of the
technology we've been using. But now. Okay, so now it's where it
should be. I am way into creating a custom sound that
gives you something that affects the listener in other ways. By
the way, you
have the record button pushed. Ooh, yes, I
do. So you know, we have compression. I put noise gates
on because I don't want to hit when I when when either I'm
talking or there's, by the way, I love silence. When neither of
us say anything, the noise gates kick in, it's completely silent.
If I didn't have those on, then I'd hear your room when you're
out here stuff. You've run rustling of papers. And that's,
to me an important part of our sound. And I love it. Because in
the beginning, certainly when we had a huge Skype delay, people
would be like, Oh, no, I keep grabbing my my iPod or my mp3
player, because I think that the thing is stopped or it's crapped
out, but then you guys talk again, and it gets people's
attention. Silence is beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, it does work. And we do have a moment of silence
every so often. But anyway, so the two of us are kind of have,
we have amenable personalities? So we were complimentary. We're
not you know, people say, Oh, you work? Because you're the
opposite. No, we're hardly the opposite. Not at all. We're just
complementary. We have different kinds of needs and issues,
perspectives, but they're not opposite. They're just
different. And it's all worked out. So we have a show that
works. Very rarely do these kinds of partnerships. Somebody
else who asked a question, let me go to this one. Who is the
star of the show? And of course, that's would be me.
Yeah, exactly. So right on.
I thought I'd get that in before you gave the same line. I was
wondering if we could actually say it at the same time, like
now, it'll never work on Skype. We'll never hit that. It's the
same moment,
though. But that would have been funny on stage. So
yeah, in a Smothers Brothers kind of humor way.
There's no star of the show. Because, and there's no like
sidekick. I mean, it's not like there's a dominant character. I
mean, they've right Adam produces the show. So he picks
up the dominant side of the production because he's the one
that hits the buttons, it says in the morning, and he's the one
who opens the show, because he's got all that gear. But it's,
it's just happens to be what you have to do if you're producing
because if I was producing it, you know, I started the clips on
like, he's starting to think myself, but so so and somebody
has to produce you can't have two producers No. socket.
With what happened. And a lot of a lot of people talk about this,
at least I've seen it around like, well, you know, it used to
be in fact, we used to say the show that has we opened we would
open the show the show that has no jingles, no sound effects, no
agenda. And then I think you because people need to know that
John is a is the kind of guy and this I really appreciate this,
by the way, who will see something on television or find
a crazy documentary or something that you're generally interested
in? And it's often I think it's stuff that you don't even
believe in or care about yourself, but he'll burn you a
DVD and make a nice label on it. And you know, and I'm always
amazed by the labels. It's always nice art and it's you
know, it's labeled beautifully
that we have the expense bustin they look at it they say I'll
just bust this isn't a bootleg that's got to
be the real deal. But that's not like movies. It's you know, it's
documentaries, it's different shows that he's seen and you
handed me a copy of the Family Guy with the episode weenie and
the but and that really got the because again, we're both radio
freaks. And we figured this would just be funny to do and it
kind of stuck and I think that it'll be fun. That's also where
in the morning came from, by the way. And it's such a take off on
the morning zoo format and which we both I would say love and
hate at the same time. Low Of course now it's just so old
fashioned. But when you listen to this you can understand why
radio guys get off on weenie in the butt to two minutes this oh
that's the Hulu the Hulu preroll What's your favorites anytime
for free Hulu,
everybody it's really in the bud here live at the go hog air show
we're all ready for the weenies sound alike contest.
I don't know, but I don't think they can say my catchphrase
because they know funny. Oh, there
it is. And if you think you can say that just like weenie here.
You could win 97.1 dollars for the cool weekend ahead.
97.1 in the morning
and welcome back.
Excuse me. I gotta find a lost kid. Can I use your mic?
That's what she said. Whoa, you got butt slam?
Listen, I could really use a hand here. That's what he said.
That's manic monkey on 97.1 Monkey. Weekends in the morning,
all weekend long.
In the morning, radio. Give me that.
Stewie Griffin, will you please report to the radio booth.
Stewie Griffin. Hey, that's quite a voice you've got there.
You ever think about doing radio? Well, I've listened to a
lot of radio. Peter and Lois leave the radio on when they go
out. So I feel like somebody's home. Well, here's my card. Call
me if you're interested. Hey, okay, we've got our first
contestant.
Let's see your weenies catchphrase, Dan. Oh, fine, man.
I think we have a wiener. And that's Dickey, the punch line
donkey on 97.1 to the punch line donkey.
On 97.1 97
It's one of the greatest moments in Family Guy history
really is and you know, they produced all of that stuff. And
they must have had a ball because it really was like that
in the 90s in the 80s. And the 90s. Radio was absolutely in the
morning on the content 7.10 content, all filler. And I used
to hate it. We got to do liner cards. Here read this hit the
jingle. All right, 100.1 dollars in cash for you on Z 100 G 100
serving the universe.
So we kind of decided we didn't decide it just happened most of
the show, by the way for people knowing what we're asking all
these questions is really an evolution. Yeah, there's no we
don't have meetings, we don't
know. We we, in fact, that's if there's a rule. We generally
agree not to talk about what we're going to talk about.
Because we know that what'll happen is we'll start talking
about it. And then we bring it up on the show and then it
always suck. There's like
it's like it's been rehearsed. There's no tension there. Right.
And you know, so So anyway, so this evolved, but what happened
with that, then of course, you ran into Jeff Smith. And so we
ended up getting a bunch of these jingles and things which
some people complain about. But the fact of the matter is it
paces the show. Well, it is a mockery of the of the other
model. And it but it adds kind of a nice kind of know what it
is the atmosphere is improved by it the in the morning thing is
used as a as a rimshot. Generally, or should be and it
is often. So I say something funny, which is very common on
the show. And then he hits the
bar if you go off on a tangent for x.
So we have a bunch of these things which we use. And now
that we had a couple of questions.
That's an old radio trick for a segue. It's really it helps
transition the listeners brain from one segment to the next. It
jars you for a moment there.
And if you listen to our last show, show 200 Adam was going
off the deep end on some topic and he kept it was way at least
two or three minutes overdue to stop it. And I told him to play
the Adam Curry's pet peeve of the day jingle, which I knew
what transition it would do would stop him in his tracks.
That's right. It also stops me You're right. Yeah, it works
perfectly that way.
So the show hears from one of our listeners the show you do
today is very different from the show when you first started eg
personal anecdotes are gone. No, they're not. Audio clips and
jingles are now proud. Lent, originally less than an hour
week is now four hours a week and listeners are now asked to
contribute cash is the show where you want it to be, or
you're planning more changes we did show just evolved. So we
don't plan anything all, although we do things
individually that may or may not stick.
In fact, if anything, we're always trying. And it's more
like that when I when I find something, and by the way, we'll
get into this, but a lot of people send me stuff. That's,
that's how I get a lot of good information. And either that's
good, or I'll find something else that is good that that
relates to it. I'm thinking, oh, man, I'm gonna blow John away
with this. Oh, he's gonna love this. When I play this. I can
just hear what he's gonna say. That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, there's that. And there's the other time that they
curiously though, we both tend to be on the same stories, which
is kind of interesting. But we had a show I can't remember is
about six or seven shows ago where you had actually collected
the clips that were all complimentary to my Yeah, yeah,
discussion. And it was like, because I didn't get some of
these clips that I wanted. You had them. And I actually thought
that was the most unbelievable show we've ever done. Because it
it was it looked rigged.
Yeah, it really flowed very nicely. And that happens from
time to time. But yeah, I don't know I'm on board with the
evolution, we there's nothing, there's absolutely nothing is
planned. I have my own things. John has his things. Sometimes
we might send each other a link from time to time. And even then
usually the link doesn't get discussed, because I always saw
Well, whatever you know, it's over. But we have a couple of
common interests of things that are funny, that we think are
funny, usually they have to do with mainstream media. I think
that's that's the most fun is when we when we rag on
mainstream media and pull it apart and simultaneously open
people's eyes as to what's really going on in on
television,
you know, that may have been triggered by the weenie in the
bud episode, probably the Family Guy because once we start once
we can start mocking that model, we started looking at the media
bitching about it generally, on a higher plane, I believe than
the people at Fox have ever thought of. And we started we
realized that it was actually interested, we were entertaining
ourselves. And we knew it was very valuable information. And
we had the time. It's not like anyone can't do this. But most
people work for a living. If you're to have a job at Goldman
Sachs, and you're there till, you know, seven at night, and
you have to get in early, whatever. And then you have to
drink all day, which seems to be what the job is about.
strippers, you don't want strippers, you don't have time
to go and start digging around these stories to find the one
you know the missing element or the the kind of the crazy
connection, you just haven't got time to do it. And then you
know, the fact that the mainstream media doesn't do it
and they don't, is just makes you wonder.
So I will say that there were two seminal moments when we had
our equivalent of a meeting. And the one is when we spoke on the
phone said, You know what, this thing is real. This is really
catching on, let's do two shows a week that I do remember, and
that was like, Well, you know, something's happening here. This
is really special, we should just do it. And then I even
recall you saying okay, I've got a switch this around. We've got
cranky geeks on Wednesday, I mean, this is when we started to
really integrate the show into our daily schedule into our
lives, because actual work does go into it. I don't know about
you, but I every single day, here's my system, I have labels
set up in my email like Gmail labels, and whenever I come
across something that I think is interesting, or that someone
sends me, or that I find, I'll email it and tag it with that
label. So I have a label now for show 201 And then the night
before the show. That is if I haven't found anything that that
showed up that I really needed to dig into which of course can
take hours of extra work and investigation, then you know, I
sit down and I start to start to assemble everything into a huge
outline of stuff and and then I have to read everything you
know, look at all the YouTube clips. And in the meantime,
whenever I can, without destroying my relationship I'm
I'm watching C span C span one, two and three. I'll skim by HLN
CNN CNBC, MSNBC just to see what they're doing. See if I find
anything funny, I find myself watching less of Fox these days.
It's just too annoying for me. But C span I find to be just, I
love it so much it to me that is it is actual entertainment. And
of course C span has done a great job with their video
library. Because all you have to do is remember a line that
someone said which is typically what I'm looking for, you go to
the archive you type In search transcripts, it'll search the
transcripts and come up with that actual piece of video and
cue the video to the spot where the line is. I mean, it's
amazing what they've done,
there is a very valuable resource. And you know, the
thing is on the weekend, they have this what I really like, I
mean, I like the regular C span, but on the weekend that this
book TV, yeah, they bring these various art writers in and many
of them have written crazy books in one way or the other right
wing, left wing everything. And they sit them down with a guy
who really is a good conversationalist, or sometimes
somebody that's in their same field of study. And they talk to
him for an hour or more, usually an hour, and it's like a whole
hour, and it's extremely basically it's like books on
tape. I mean, you get the whole, pretty much the perspective
you're looking for you find everything out from this person.
They it's just amazing. It's a it's much better than any talk
show, Charlie Rose or any of these commercials. Yeah, what's
tonight, what's nice about that is I know, I kind of know what
you're watching. So I know that I don't have to, and we, I must
say from time to time it happens every other week, probably
you'll either you'll send me sometimes I send you an SMS or a
text message saying, dude, C span three now. Right? And then
we'll both sit down and watch something at the same time. This
has happened to me that I've been in the car, and I get like
a C span to now like, Oh, crap, but I luckily have the C span
iPhone app, and I'll listen to the audio. It's like It's
sickening. We're like, we're like the guys from the Muppets.
It's a little crazy. Yeah, it is.
But it's not as though you know. And the funny thing is, I don't
think when we first began to show that we're gonna get so
heavily embedded into current events to this extreme, and like
somebody says, you know, your show was about you guys going
out to dinner. And you know, and it just Yeah, it was a lot of
moments, it was still discussed wine and food occasion when it
comes up. And but we don't, instead of sitting around
talking about our meal, that people can live vicariously
through our, you know, steaks and, and Cabernet, it didn't,
that pretty much kind of just went by the wayside because it
wasn't. I don't know if
the audience also drove that. And the only way to measure that
is by feedback that you get and the growth of the audience. And
it was pretty clear what people were interested in, and they
were interested in on our take of current events. We're
interested in our unveiling, if you will, and this is purely
because of our experience, our unveiling of the bullshit and
the, I would say, the deception of mainstream media. And it's n.
And I think it's helped a lot of people see things in a different
light. And that's what the audience wants. And you know,
John, you and I are both in the audience business at the end of
the day.
And yeah, and in fact, it is we you can tell, by the way people
send you notes, I mean, yeah, every once in a while some buddy
that was there from the original show, and they kind of liked the
fact that we have a wine tip once in a while, which I can
still do. Or there's some observation we made about the
trends and food. That's fine, which, which is now different
than me complaining on the earlier show, The Show 200,
about the raw milk of issues. That's kind of a foodie thing.
But the point is, is that the people that really got jacked
up, and the ones are pretty much financing the show because they
send in big contributions and say, Wow, we like the way you
deconstruct these stories, the way you tear them apart. The way
you show us. Me is a word way you show me that this that I'm
being led astray people, it's very valuable for people to have
some sense of understanding of what they're being bombarded
with.
So when did we start asking for donations?
That began some time in 2009, I believe we semi seriously may
have done something in late 2008. And as always, I can say
this because I can look at the Pay Pal accounts since we did it
as a Pay Pal thing and we did it. At the beginning, I think
with trepidation. Not complete trepidation. But I think you may
have had a little more naive, because I've always felt there
was a model of direct support. And I was thinking about this. I
kept to keep thinking of different arguments because you
know, the ones that do it the best public broadcasting. And
you're right. That's what it was. We were talking about that.
And then we were talking about PBS. And I said, Why Why did
those dickheads who are clearly shills not all and all the time,
but why did they get away with this? And why do people support
that? It appears that we have a large number of people who like
us the same way they either currently do or used to like
Public Broadcasting?
Right and they ban public broadcasting also has the the
issue with the fact that they have commercials and we pick you
know, we really played up a couple of clips that we
developed. We found about you know, the admitting that there.
Let's play that one because we can't play that enough. This was
was the president of PBS NPR was the NPR. Yes. NPR, being asked
about underwriters. Yeah. About their underwriters and how the
state of affairs and here was her answer. Okay, moving
on to money. How are NPRs corporate underwriting revenues
holding up in the recession? And what about foundation grants
to different stories? Underwriting is underwriting is
is down, it's down for everybody. I mean, this is this
is this is the area that is most down for us is in is in
sponsorship, underwriting, advertising, call it whatever
you want.
Right, call it whatever you want. And then I think we
started to open people's eyes. This is kind of the way it went,
we start to open people's eyes about how it really worked. And
people like wow, you know, Monsanto sponsors, this Archer
Daniels Midland sponsors that and we're like, Well, okay, so
how about the objective reporting about those companies?
Well, that doesn't seem to be a hell of a lot of it. And I think
a lot of people, this is maybe how it really started, John, and
I'm just vague on it. But is people start to send us like
$100 and say, Well, this is what I would have normally spent on
PBS, the national treasure. I want to spend it on you. And I
think that's where we said, oh, wait a minute. There's something
here?
Well, we definitely had again, this is what this is the problem
with answering questions like this. We don't really brain
dead. Yeah, we're idiots. No, this an evolutionary show. And
like with anything in evolution, just the model, it's very
difficult to put your finger on a spot, I mean, I can we can do
the weenie in the bend the butt spot, and then that has some
influence. And we can point right to it. But the rest of it
is always vague because it just kind of evolved. It we were
actually very, you know, being an open source show, which is
another idea that we decided to go with. In other words, we
don't care if you steal the show. I actually
do remember I was in New York with Mickey and it was winter,
it must have been winter 2009. And I remember I called you, and
I said, you know, hey, this this model that we've been kind of,
well, not really working on, but that has evolved. It seems to be
working, we should really go for this, we should really try and
and I think at that point, I said, Boy, I would love to do
this full time, I would love to do nothing else. But this, I
enjoy it so much. Well,
well, the model that I was I remember, I was always for it
from the get go. Because I've always admired the model itself,
I always admire the fact that you can get if you get give
people what essentially you're doing it's like the Max Headroom
thing where they had the direct numbers, you know, the guy was
the show was going downhill, the numbers would go down, and you
can see it in real time, you can see if we're doing the right
thing, if we're doing a good job directly, it's not it's value
for value, you can't go off the deep end. And we can't turn the
show into like an analysis of the 60s music. And that's all we
talk about for two hours and expect to get any money from
anyone. So we're only doing it now at the same time, we don't
obviously don't want to be pushed around by the audience,
we have to lead them as, as opposed to just doing whatever
they want. So you have to have some leaders that this is like a
company that you know, you you don't focus group everything.
Focus grouping takes you, it shows you what they used to
like, but if you want to move the show in new directions, or
tried different things, you actually have to experiment with
it. But you will get that feedback, you're gonna get a
push backs. And now you know, this sucks. Don't do that again.
And you know, and then the donations go way down. So it's
an interesting tightrope walk, but it's direct support from the
listeners. And, and people have come up with all kinds of
different complaints about it. You know, you know, why do we
Why do I have to spend $100 Because I go see a movie for 50
bucks, and they put a lot of money into making those movies
and you guys don't put any money into making this show. And they
this is kind of weird kind of complaints about production
costs. I've been getting every once in a while. And I might,
I've never had a real good retort for it. Except Well, it's
you know, it's different. Like you're paying for books on tape
is like a book. We're really competing with books on tape,
we're not competing with avatar. And then I started thinking,
we're also competing with radio, but you know, radio, you get 22
minutes an hour of action? Well, less radio is terrible. 17
minutes of programming and 13 minutes of commercials, you
know, make your choice.
Right? And then how much is your time worth? So I've used that
argument, but then I also find another one, which I really
haven't exploited on the show. But you know, because people
didn't it's production. Well, it costs a lot of money to make a
movie. What about a novel novels are one of the first in that one
of the first businesses that are directly user supported. Good
point, you buy a book. Good point, and you read the book and
you've you know, you've already paid your money although of
course, unlike our show, of the book you pay in advance for the
book, and you pay in advance for the, for the avatar movie you
pay in advance for a lot of these things. We don't do that
we're more of the church model where you, you know, if you
don't like the sermon, you don't have to put anything in the
coffers. But it's the same thing. Your books are user
supported. And when there's no ads in a book,
no and what and once you get over the personal hurdle coming
from mainstream, whereby the way we hate commercials, I've always
hated commercials.
I hate that's what the DVR is such a
godsend. No, but I mean, just even as a creative as a creator
of content, or like, Oh, I got it. I got a hit the commercial
break. I gotta wait for the commercial. Yeah.
Terribly. You got us interrupt your flow. I watched one of
these shows anyone listening to this on Fox or in places and
they get somebody in a really heated debate. But they're on a
hard break?
Yeah. I've seen this with Tom Brokaw and the president. And
they got some some guys screaming in his ear counting
down to commercial. And the President's actually just saying
something really interesting. It's annoying. It's very, very
annoying as a creator to go through that. But then it was
kind of weird. At least for me, it was, you know, you feel
embarrassed to ask people for money. And there is a
psychological hurdle. And but once you're over that, got over
it pretty quickly. Yeah, it's easy sailing. You know, it's
like, Hey,
I had I had some pushback from the family. It's like an I won't
say who, but they know who they are. Yeah. So how can you bring
yourself to begging for money for this? How can you do that
it's beneath you? Can't you get some advertisers? I don't want
any advertisers. If I can get money directly from the
listeners? I mean, why would I want that product. It just ruins
the product. I mean, there's nobody and the thing is the most
of the people have not, we've taken it to one of the reasons
that we do this show. And we do this the money asking for money
and support donations, is because whatever you want to
call it, is because it gets us closer to the audience was
actually a good close connection, you know, you know
what you're getting for your money. At some point, it becomes
a, it just, it just makes you feel more honest.
And there's another thing we did, which I know was my
initiative, and I think it helped us in a number of ways is
we decided to stream it live when we do the show. And that
did a number of things. One it gave at least me, I appreciate
the instant feedback loop of the chat room. Now. I can't watch it
all the time. But sometimes a punch line will come through and
they're always on a 25 second delay. So it's interesting how
that works. But a punch line will come through or someone
might drop a link in there. But I personally, even even if I
didn't have the chat room, just knowing that people are
listening live at that moment gives me an energy that I've
always loved doing things live, I'm not a big fan of recording.
If I'm if I have to record something, it's got to be live
to tape. Like I do daily source code like you do cranky geeks,
all of that stream live as well. Now, I just want to live live
live because then you can leave all the warts in there and all
the all the crazy shit and actually makes it more
interesting when it's not highly produced. And it also forces us
to kind you know, I think before we were doing it live, it's
like, hey, what time should we do the show? Well, I got this. I
got that. Now. It's like, there's my schedule is Thursday
morning. I get up, I get up same 630 I get up. And from then on
out. It's no agenda Sunday morning, 630. I get up from then
on. It's no agenda. I
know I have the same thing he said. But occasionally we've had
to move the show to Wednesday night. It hasn't. We haven't had
that in a long time. But we're gonna have it next month because
I have a travel thing that's interrupting both shows. Which
brings me to a wait, let me finish one more thing about the
donations. One of the things that when we went into the
donation thing we started asking for for money, direct support
from the listeners. This has never really been I've been
figuring this out. Because it's a form of marketing. It's that
interests me but one of the things that I that people say
wow, you can't me yeah, how are you? I'm sure you're starving to
death. And you can't do it. Once you get an advertiser. They
always say no one except us. And I believe me, I haven't seen
anything close and I there may be some religious programming
that I'm not aware of. But nobody doing podcasting,
professional level, good quality podcasting, as we're doing has
taken it serious. Yeah, we are seriously you know, we have
programs we can't with the night thing. We've got a different
kinds of we
don't call it a tip jar. We don't work for tips.
Yeah, that's yeah, no, we do this. We're seriously doing this
and it's like take it or leave it. This is the model we're
working with. It's gonna be a lot better the product you're
gonna get a lot better if you forget anything out of it. You
get something out of it, you know, contribute. I mean, just
the way you were, this is new.
Do you feel the show serves as more than just a source of
entertainment? If yes, what do you hope to accomplish? Well,
first of all, let me say, from my perspective, I absolutely see
this as a form of entertainment. I hope everyone is entertained
by our show, they have to if you're not entertained, we have
blown it. You have there has to be a moment where an
entertainment comes in, in different ways. It can be funny,
it can be dramatic, it can be sad, it can be frightening,
whatever emotion button we're hitting, it has to be
entertainment. Otherwise, why Listen, number just be boring.
I remember somebody sent us a link. So well, there's a couple
people that do a show like yours. And they send us a link
to somebody show that was very much like ours, they
deconstructed the news a bit. They tended to not to have our
perspectives, but they you know, they did a fairly decent job.
And it was so dull. They had no it was just like this academic
Drew, you can't get you know, it's just the modern audience is
the modern audience. And and no matter how intellectual you
might think you are, you will be better served by someone who
feed you information in a way that keeps your attention. And
to keep your attention. You have to have an element of
entertainment. Our personalities, generally
speaking, I think, are, are are the entertainment.
Also, and I've only had this one I humor? Of course, yes.
Obviously. I've only had this one other time in my career, the
sometimes you just find these magical combinations. And it's
not by design, you can't train for it, you can't go to school
for it. It just happens. And you have these combos that just
work. And this is one of those that just work. In fact, my
biggest fear now. And I know what yours is, John, but my
biggest fear is you're going to roll over and die one day and
the show will be over. And I know you're in
us at least
you're afraid I'm gonna go crazy and leave Mickey and go off the
deep end. I mean, I know what you're
thinking. Yeah, I think that can happen any minute. Our pledge
asks on Twitter, Mr. Devaraj, your campaign seems to have the
momentum of a runaway freight train.
Hey, there's the meme.
Why are you so popular? I think we answered that question just
now. Also, the no agenda chat folks wanted to moderate should
be invited. They've donated a lot of their time when they're
invited to listen to the show, and we're done with it. We next
time, maybe we can do something more for them.
This show is the first one a long time that we're not
streaming live. But also this is a different type of show. We're
just kind of. So let's answer the second part of that
question, though. What do you hope to accomplish? What do you
hope to accomplish John with this show?
I think at some point, and this is going to be this sounds
really this is not going to sound good. Because that because
it makes you sad. There's a kind of a you'll you'll see what I
eat cake. No, no, I think that we I think, honestly believe
that we're doing a serious public service to bring people
generally peep people that are listening to the show. I've
always believed this with even when I'm a writer, people always
say, Well, what are you what? When I'm writing it like in PC
Magazine, when I was writing all those years and inside track, I
always had a vision of what what was I trying to accomplish and
what I was trying to accomplish, because I knew it would get me
more readers a bit busy for selfish reason. By the way, I
knew it to get me more readers. My concept was if I could if
somebody read my column, and they're working in a cubicle,
and Mike, my column was designed to give them an edge over the
guy in the other cubicle who wasn't reading my column. And
I've always believed that that this is your you know, the value
proposition. It's a phrase I hate. But it was one of the
things I've always it's always in the back of my mind. I'm
trying to give people some edge over the people who aren't
paying attention to me. Oh, no.
This is basically we want you the audience to be able to get
laid because you sound smarter listening to us.
Exactly.
I mean, at the end of the day, isn't that
it or a job or a promotion? anything
it can enrich your life because you had that one little bit of
information that someone went, Oh, like I said something
interesting. She has an interesting take on stuff that
and for me, it's that maybe it's just that this is for you know,
I'll tell you what it is. This is I think I was born to do
this. I think everyone was born to do something and it took me a
long time with a lot of detours and I've been counting down the
hits. And I've you know, I've pretended to run companies with
varying degrees of success but but basically riding off of fame
and fortune, which in itself is interesting to have a
perspective from from that angle. But this I love this. I
so love it. People say Man, you work really hard. You do a lot.
We have house guests and they'll be like, Oh, my God Adams always
on our thing. And he's editing and he's recording stuff and I
love it. And it's not it doesn't even feel like work. I love
this. I love what we do. I love what I do. But and that's also
completely selfish. But to get your late
pay no, no good actually good. works generally are selfish at
some level. Because you you know, if you think you're
helping somebody, sometimes it's selfish because you get a good
feeling from it. And that's a selfish thing. Although it
wouldn't be defined as such by anybody in their right mind.
So let's talk about the open source model for just the way
before we do
that, since you brought kinda brought it up. I want to bring
in Simon Smith's question from Twitter, which says when we
offer relationship advice on no agenda, my wife doesn't react
well to the hookers and blow angle.
Really? She should try it.
What does that mean? I don't know some people just
we do get. I here's a certain thing. Two things I hear. One is
people don't like the hookers and blow because they put some
people off. Okay. That's just who we are. I guess. And we find
it amusing. You know, I don't think, John, I've never done
blow. And I certainly have never done the combination of hookers
and blow at the same time.
So, so you admit to doing hookers? Yeah, absolutely.
You're like you've never done hookers.
And I don't discuss these things in public. Or was this on? By
the way the hookers situation is a cycle and the 30s of the 70s
Big Lots of hookers and so we're gonna get we're going into a new
cycle of hookers in you probably starting around 2012
That's why I am not against hookers. I think that there's a
lot of bad stuff that happens in the sex industry. But if you
know there's a lot of women who support their children and and
themselves and if that's what they want to do, and it can be
done in a safe manner power to you I grew up in Amsterdam. I
saw it working quite well. Thank you. What's the problem is when
it gets driven underground. That's a whole separate show.
So now what was your right now What was your the
second one? People say? Well, I tried to help people listen to
the show, but then they hear the opening and the whole in the
morning thing. I think it's some BS, top 40 You know, weenie in
the butt show and then they don't listen.
And I don't know what we can do about that nothing
but I actually like it because you have to once you get over
that hump, then then you can get kind of sucked in. So no, that's
also a mask that's probably important to you imagine like
some meeting going on at the NSA or the CIA and the like, we've
got to get rid of these guys hear bad things about that
Korean War Atlas, listen to the show. And they hear this whole
in the morning bit. And like wow, that can't be anything.
Definitely puts like puts people or maybe
Echelon you know, Echelon is sniffing ratio and the like, oh,
this
just what you said the guy goes into a meeting says these guys
are they're subversive these two guys and the guys is really well
let me hear what let me hear the show. And then they start
playing it with that opening that Greg Levin Buzzkill. And
the guy says, Get the hell out of my office you practice
by the way that is now that you mentioned it. I purposely love
and I don't know who came up with the moniker but I love
being called the crackpot because it is the ultimate
shield. The ultimate because some of the stuff we say and I
think we get pretty close to the truth and a lot of issues. I
would rather people say oh, he's just a conspiracy theorist. He's
just a crackpot. Because that will save me from getting
killed.
We've talked about
Yeah, excellent. I think it's a good theory and it's it's a
likeable theory but the you know, we shot to track down the
guy who coin crackpot and buzzkill it was an email I got
and we mentioned on the next show we mentioned it and you
thought it was great to be called the crackpot Yeah, I love
and so then we our artwork started to have a crackpot and
buzzkill put on it. So we did just reiterated the whole thing
we should. So now please, let's move into that open source
nature of the show. So two amazing things which are a part
of the model, a part of the openness and the and the freedom
and the and the support of through donations is we don't
own anything. We don't well, I mean, I guess technically if you
really looked at it, we do have a microphone. Yeah. But the show
is whatever it is, and we have people cutting this up splicing
it putting it into all kinds of making rants, ringtones making
trans music out of it, but we also have people who who create
things so a lot of our jingles by the way we could use a lot
more and we'd love them but we are very critical. We don't just
use everything people send in a lot of people send in stuff that
we just feel is not good enough. We have our At work, and we have
two main artists, sir Randy Asher and Sir Paul T. And they,
you know, these guys have jobs, they do, what, who knows what
they do. And they they spend their time they create artwork
for us for almost every single show now there's no agenda
art.com where people can drop art. And we've used the art from
different artists, if anything we add. So after every show,
people should know we have a discussion. So the first thing
we say is what do we think of the show? And there's been a
couple of times we said, Well, that sucked. And we're pretty
brutal with each other. Although John never agrees with my
criticism of them. If I say, Well, you sucked on that. It's
like, No, that was really good. And if you criticize me, you're
usually right. And I just take it like a man. Hi. So we, we
talked about that. And then we talk about
what essentially it's important post mortem that most
publications do?
Yeah. Then we'll say what, what do we call the show? So we think
about what will get the best SEO results? What will people be
searching, we want all those accidental hits. And then we
have to choose from the artwork. And that is sometimes the
hardest part because it's so good. We don't want to, you
know, have one guy put off over the other guy because they both
sent them something great. It's that's a hard choice sometimes.
Yeah, it's amazing. We have, and there's other artists waiting in
the wings that contribute on an occasional basis. We have some
tremendous support from these guys. And then, you know, I
asked her set up his own t shirt shop and through I don't know
what mechanism and you know, we you know, Genda stuff.com stuff.
Yeah. And we have, you know, all these guys, and we've encouraged
it, and we don't we don't have our name trademarked somebody
came up with an email the other day that said, Senator, I think
I got a good promotional idea. Why don't you trademark in the
morning. And then every time you hear anybody saying it on any
show whatsoever, send them a cease and desist order, and then
they'll promote you. And you'll get free publicity, although
it's actually a funny idea, but it's not our model at all.
It sounds like work. And that's one thing we hate. Work, we
actually don't want to do anything. We just want to do
this show. We don't want to have any extra work. We don't want to
do any, you know, extra promotion stuff that involves
leaving a computer.
Yeah. And I had these other guys that guys amiibo saying Come on,
you know, they come up to me. Oh, yeah. Well, that's one of
the things that's changed. This is we're back live as it were
out. It's out of the out of where we are have exuded from
show 20.5. And now we're back in the show for 25. Yes, indeed, in
retrospect, so if anyone wants to know, and I think the Shut up
slave thing gave it away. Well, there's a lot
of stuff that that is new, jingle wise, obviously. And by
the way, people can find these, if you go to na shownotes.com
There is a there's a the top link is all the no agenda sites,
I think, is what it's called. And if you tap on that, you'll
find an actual link to all the jingles which is updated on the
fly. So it's automatically updated on that website, if
you're looking for any of the stuff that we use, that are
being part of our open source model, as you heard,
and you can also go to the wiki page, no agenda Wiki pages,
which we usually don't mention that much, but it's quite clear,
full. Not quite contemporary, but it's got enough stuff that
it's I think a good intro to the show. I tell people to go there.
It really this is like, really you tell people looking for the
background I see influences. Okay, that makes sense. But what
but what I'm missing here is our height. Let me see that.
I know he mentioned mo actually,
actually, no, no. If you click through to my wiki page, height,
five foot 17 inches, I love it. Oh, somebody's
up just you have a you have a fan.
You are five with 13 on your website, on your wiki page.
That's cool. But we do want to
remind people by the way that we have, we don't we don't we're
not thinking any. We're going to thank all our executive
producers and Associate Executive producers. When Adam
gets back from his wedding, which will be the Sunday what is
the date on that? Next live show?
Yeah, good question. Hold on a second. Now so we the wedding is
on Monday. And then we fly back on Wednesday, July 18. And
Thursday I'll be back in the saddle so it'll be so the
19th will be the one show we're really excited that we want to
remind people that just because we're doing we're doing we
actually doing this show above and beyond the call of duty we
just take off the week. But we want to remind people that we
still need support because the same bills come up and the same
problems come up they're you know require. Well, this is the
this is the one financing. Listen to these go to
dvorak.org/na
a listening to well We kick off with the first question and we
asked people to send in emails either John and myself or both
of us. And we were very specific about you know how to how to
address your email what you had to put in the subject line. And
not everyone did it. So if you didn't get
to that three guys did it on mine. Everyone else has
questions show question by question show tuner point six.
Yeah, I
got the quote show question. Pound hashtag pound number sign
pound the second half.
But what simple, no one can do it. But
Elliott Gardner asked right off the back. Right off the bat. Two
questions. I'll do them out of order. Question two. First, why
did you choose Dvorak? dot.org/na.
Well, when we started off, I quickly put up a site to have to
collect some some some sponsors just not sponsorships, but
producer donations and contributions. And I did I have
this access to the my own site. So I just put it there. And it
became branding, then I was we've had other alternative
sites. And then somebody came up with this damn jingle became
like, it's stuck me with this. I mean, we cannot leave because
the jingle is so good. Play it
devora.org/n A.
And we people have said, It's stuck in my brain, I have to go
there. So we've kept it as kind of just it's a throwback, it's
kind of Of
course, it's not the easiest spelling thing to remembering,
right. Dvorak is
hard to spell, you know, it's, it would be better if we did
some kind of one of those. It's kind of like too late now, or?
I don't know, I know, I do have to say listening to to show
200.5 there. So a lot of big things changed in my life. Since
we did that show. The number one thing is that I left my day job,
I left my paycheck since then, and have been living solely off
of my half of the no agenda support that we get from our
producers, executive producers and our monthly donors. That
That, of course, led immediately to me moving out of the state of
California to the cheaper state of Texas
wisely. Yeah.
Because there was a little the variables are a bit too much to
be to be perfectly honest. You there's no way no way you can
live in California doing this, you know, and then think, well,
maybe I'll make rent this month, maybe I'll make the damn water
bill electricity bill, which is
really the worst and the personal income tax. And percent
off the top.
Yeah, which is going to 13.5 or whatever. Yeah, so all of that
was, and besides the fact that we really, you know, after our
Hot Pockets tour, which was another another new initiative
that took place after show 200.5. You know, we wound up in
in Austin say, wow, you know, this, this is so much nicer as a
place to live. But really, I mean, I did this just
financially, it made a lot of sense. And, and I think it's
also, in many ways help the show by being in a in a different
Millia.
Yeah, no, you have to be I think that's important that the two of
us are not right, you know, living in the same building kind
of thing, while
also not just not living in the same building, but you know,
what kind of culture does Hollywood give you really, I
mean, it's just, you know, yeah, you might have a few extra
celebrity showbusiness like stories, but there's, you know,
it's otherwise. Yeah, exactly. So that's one of the main
things. The other main thing is I was going through this,
explaining how I did my show prep. Wow, that has changed
dramatically. In in two years time. It went from tagging
messages in Gmail, which was a good idea at the time, too. And
yeah, I think we we have a pretty kick ass system. You
know, we have show notes that are very expanded, we've got to
the no agenda, news network, no agenda, news network.com. Now
that we've got a lot of stuff that supports the show, which a
lot of people contribute to actually a lot of, and I'd like
to thank those producers, who are continuously dropping in
interesting story leads from around the world, which is
really the critical, the critical nature of what the
network does, because you can start to see the similarities
between the story that's being posted from Australia to get
more nation Deutschland to something that's happening in
the in the in the States, and then you can really you get an
overview, if you will, of how we're being managed as human
resources.
Yeah, no, I think we our audience is great. If it wasn't
for the audience and the producers we the show, we
wouldn't have a show. I mean, obviously wouldn't have a show
but I mean, we really wouldn't have a show.
We'll also the length of the show has changed. I think when
we were doing 200.5 We were trying to stick to an hour and a
half and would usually go over. And these days we're never shy
of two and a half hours, which we do twice a week,
which is five hours a week, which is, I think, valuable to
commuters because they get typical commutes about a half
hour you can do the whole showing the whole two shows in a
week of driving. And a lot of Pee Wee, I still believe most of
our audience are commuters. Well interestingly,
listen to the show. Where did you listen to 200.5
I listened to it on the computer. Oh, I
listened to it in the car. I tried to really do
it by this dude on a computer for one reason I wanted to take
notes on it. I do have some notes. Okay. You know opening
jingle we make it look easy. There was something in there a
lot of self reflection, which is some of its gone away. We did
talk about the no agenda name but we don't really know the
absolute perfect Genesis noise gates silence there. I noticed
this. You mentioned about it about the noise gay we and then
you said we have a moment of silence every so often you're
talking about the noise gate and I put my notes as missed get
egg. When did you say we have a moment of silence? I said Yeah,
after that last joke, you know, camera, there's just
opportunities in the
Yeah, I also I also heard, you know, in comparison. With you
know, we've we've gelled even more as a team. Because, you
know, the oh, here it comes. The fact of the blather is that this
is on Skype. So there's a delay. And at that point, we know we're
pretty well accustomed to it. But you know, when when there's
something when John says something, and I gotta hit a
button, or if we're going back and forth in a dialogue, there
is a delay to be reckoned with. So you're not stepping on each
other all the time. And I think
you tend to hit the queues pretty well, except his I've
noticed that over the last couple of weeks with this
wedding, hanging over your head, so
it's gotten worse.
And it's the wedding. This is the problem. This is the
distance like sports, you know, if you have the emotional state
of the the participants really makes a difference in the
quality of the timing mostly in the show.
In other notes, I've also noticed I put down no longer
handing you DVDs. You made some
way. Oh, yeah, that's that's a good point. Yeah, you used to
have me DVD? Well, we used to. Well, I had just left San
Francisco at that point. We're not not long before. So we kind
of saw each other, which of course also plays into the
reason why, you know, there's where there was less than less
food and wine talk of us having a dinner or a meal together and
talking about it. There's none. Because we virtually have not
seen each other for I've seen you maybe once in two years, in
person.
times, twice, maybe. Right. And I never managed you didn't stay
in Los Angeles long enough for me to get down there. And in
other words, you're only there for two years. And I also
noticed that the three Shows a week talk disappeared.
Well, yeah, because we're, we're recovering.
We were doing three Shows a week in two shows. Five hours. We're
talking three Shows a week, we're doing an hour and a half
and it would have been an hour and a half, three hours four or
five 4.5 hours we actually do more. We do not clue each other
so much on C span like we used to and you mentioned that on the
to unemployed if I were you, I'd send you an email or a text
message. Hey, go turn on C span right now. Don't do that. Right.
We stopped doing that.
Right. Do you think I see? I've kind of I read your columns.
Most of them. I see your the s3 show I don't catch all the time.
You know, I have the RSS feed for the vortec.org/blog Do you
ever follow any of what I'm tweeting or? or linking to?
I follow everything you tweet. Really? Yeah. But you don't
follow us? Yeah, I go on Twitter about four times a day.
Yeah, I've seen you active when you don't have but no agenda
News Network. Are you there?
I go on it every so when I remember to go on it for some
reason. I've not made a habit. I think it's a terrific resource
though. Because every time I go on it, there's a lot of good
stuff and I fear you're gonna pick it anyway. So that's true.
And I'd rather it's kind of fun to get caught by surprise. Also.
The production values of the show I think have improved a
little bit. It's outstanding, well produced one of the best
produce shows I think we deserve an award uh, you do. Paul, T and
Randy Asher are gone.
Yeah, that was going I have written down to is like, there's
a lot of names that I do recognize, but there's some
names that are definitely out. And it's okay. I mean, and I
hope that listening I have no idea we just haven't heard from
them.
They both have real jobs now. And they were doing the art when
they were between work, I believe, but we have so many
good artists that, you know, it's, they're missed, but you
know, they're not completely missed. And we
have, and I have to say, you know, we we've we started for
the past month or so which is really way too late. But now I'm
just writing it down. And, you know, therefore, it's harder for
me to forget to thank the artist as a credit on the show, but
we're thanking the artist who did the previous episodes work,
because they are really the artists are the unsung heroes.
And, and this is your theory, how important the art is, it
really is incredibly important. Particularly if you if you if
you look at iTunes, if a lot of people listen to the show on
iTunes, or on their iPhone or some kind of iOS device, it just
looks beautiful. You look
at art is as a dimensionality to everything. And I think is very
important in artists. That reason we get the art the way we
do we get so much because art most artists, people with the
soul of an artist, they tend to appreciate being appreciated.
Yeah. Because nobody appreciates them, generally speaking. What
do you do? Oh, you did a good. You know, nobody realized how
important it is. It really serves me yes, it's Sorry. It's
shameful shameful. I say.
One question that came in quite a bit is what is your problem
with the chat room? Well, me know a lot of people want to
know, why is John such a dick about the chat rooms? I think
I'm paraphrasing here, but I think that's the general right.
Yeah. General consensus of the question,
I think is a distraction for me. Personally, I think it should be
dogged. And I'm glad you do it. Because the chat room is a good
feedback mechanism is kind of like the Greek chorus. You know,
somebody's in the background saying stuff that you need to
hear, and somebody needs to listen. But I don't think we
both need to be listening because it's very distracting.
And when I'm on Leo's show, I am on the chat in the chat room and
often I get I lose it completely lose myself into the chat room.
And then the chat room that we have is a mean spirited group
and
not not a mean spirited No, that's true.
Oh, maybe I'm wrong. I should go back revisit and I got kicked
out one that's the
there it is ladies and gentlemen. He got kicked out.
That's the problem.
That's my own chair.
It is that's the problem. And I just want to take the
opportunity to thank Mr. Oils, sir, get most leave and void
zero, who are always keeping I mean, the chat room that's never
gone down as far as I know. They also keep the stream going and
that is all highly appreciated what those guys do for us a
couple other things. Oh, let's see. Oh, we have some failed at
first. We should probably mention once in a while nap for
humanity was one of them that came in went. The Red Book
is new. Oh, that's right. It is new. You're right.
The Red Book is new and the Red Book is real. We still don't we
you know the guy who told me that he was one of our listeners
or producers that gave us crackpot in Buzzkill. And it was
like way early. And I because it was so long ago and I get so I
have so much email in my archives. I can't find I
don't even I don't even remember who do who did that first. Yeah,
I was it was a guy wrote in and I brought it up on the show. And
we thought it was hilarious. And then the artists immediately put
it up and that was in there.
It's the template now. Yeah. Here, Adam, given the technology
background of both you and John, would you guys ever consider a
tech podcast? I miss John's cranky geeks and would gladly be
a founding producer for a weekly tech show twit is great, but you
guys are better. And and that's not I'm not reading this out.
gloating. I think it's a valid question. And before you answer,
I would say that I we rarely bring up tech that well. I
rarely bring up tech related discussions because I know
typically that you're going to be on twit two to three times
out of the month. And I don't want you know, I don't want to
detract from what you're doing there. But sometimes we do bring
something up if it's kind of irrelevant, but I think most of
it just doesn't really matter to everyone's life. That's not to
say that I wouldn't love doing that with you. I just don't know
if we could actually do it. I have a feeling something would
suck if we if we did another show.
Yeah, I agree. I think we I think what we people if they
like what we're doing with this show, which I which is very
unique, very unique. Nobody really is doing anything quite
like this. The tech thing everybody's doing one yes. True.
And it's like, oh, let's jump in on the tech thing and do another
Tech Show. And it's like, Ah, I'm not you know, I've done tech
shows. I'll do some more tech to do some more video tech shows
maybe. I mean, the X ray shows over Generation X three still
going on, but that's not even tech anymore. So that's
essentially the only tech show I do I write about tech every day?
I don't really need to be doing more tech than I do. And it's
not that enjoyable. And it's not that interesting. What we're
doing is extremely unique and, and often fascinating. And also,
yeah, you know, tech is what it is it's tacking all Intel's got
a new chip. Oh, stop the presses.
And also another thing is that, you know, and we've always
adhered to this model, which we've discussed many times, is,
we really try to converse as little as possible. And that's
not even email. Certainly no phone calls at all in between
shows. And even before we before we hit the record button on
today's show, we're like, and it's Saturday, just say no,
tomorrow is is Sunday, when we're doing the actual episode
four to four. Like it's going to fuck up tomorrow show. Because
you just know it isn't the rhythms off. It's like now we
already were talking to each other.
Yeah, but you're also packing to go to Holland to get married
tomorrow. We're going to do a show with that hanging over
here. Now
I have the automatic self packing suitcase. That part is
good. But I would like I was out all day running errands. Believe
me. Of course. Yeah. That's why it's what it is. But you know
what? I'm damn happy. I'm marrying the woman I love Come
on. Give me a break. And by the way, when discuss pre discussing
the show with Miss Mickey, which I often do. I'll try. I'll try
like, I couldn't do this my previous life with Miss Mickey,
I couldn't have said, Let me run this by see what you think. And
if she starts to roll her eyes, are you? Okay? She was very
specific. The only thing she really wanted to convey is that
she really, really loves you. And she means it. And she's
bummed that you're not at the wedding. And I told her
that you told me not to go. That's exactly what I said. I
said, I don't.
It's a pain in the ass. I didn't tell her how adamantly you
agreed. To go. In fact, you said, Yeah, man. You know how
many times it's canceled? You wondered this whole thing about
how you've canceled trips, like as you're on the way to the
airport. Come on. Come on, man. I
asked you, I will cancel the trip on the way to the airport.
Molly, what's coming so many times, when you know, beam,
you'll say, Well, I gotta get out of here. And then I said,
Screw it. I'm not going to go go back to bed. It's like a
routine, such as you said that nobody that knows me is ever
surprised. I mean, if I'm booked for a speech someplace, and I'm
getting paid money, no, I'm going. But But somebody how
often does that happen? I don't have to go to out generally not
go. Anyway. Mollywood. What time to flight is to have it's like a
new flight and take it or leave it. But of seven in the morning.
Sometimes I'll talk myself out of
it. I'll say it again. Mollywood is coming.
Oh, well, that's nice. You'll have fun. She looks Dutch.
What another thing I was going to gonna mention that. A lot of
the I recognize a lot of the donor names from 200.5. And a
lot of them are still donors. And as I was kind of
reminiscing, driving around Austin here, thinking about, you
know, you know, how's that? How's that? How's the show
grown? And you probably didn't know, we had Eric doing a
numbers for us. I presume you don't have numbers, like we had
on the last show about, you know, how many were the most
donations come in? From what countries? You know, we've
probably we've increased the, the length of the show the
amount of the show by probably close to 30% on a weekly basis,
or just in general 30%. But the people who listen to the show,
and the percentage of them who are donors or not, as they
themselves have self imposed boners I don't think has
increased that much. I mean, still a lot of the same people,
which is, of course, super appreciated. But I don't know,
did you get that feeling at all that it was like, have we really
that was the moment where I'm like, we've grown in so many
areas, but it seems like a lot of the same people
needs to be grown.
We talked about this growing up the audio out of the it's not
the growing of the audience bitching
and moaning about the fact that we don't have enough listeners,
but we we have a lot of loyal listeners. But we also have some
people that bail. I get that from the mail chimp does a lot
of stats, when I send out the mailings every week, and they
tell you how many people dropped from the mailing list and they
put a snide remark in Oh, still, it's still a very small number
compared to most families, we probably lose 10 people a week
and while picking up you know 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 and
I think my point is that there's still a lot of people who we
haven't done a good enough job for, I guess that they are
donating
Yeah, yeah, that is is a problem, I think or they feel
this or this show or there's just freeloaders. I mean, there
are people that don't get it. They don't want to, you know,
donate because this is just against their religion. I have
no idea.
Let's see. Do you have any more questions? Yeah,
I got one here. This is from Laurie in Kansas, like know how
long john and Mimi homeschooled their kids. Yeah, was the
primary motivation because it's public schools. Even though
we're in good public schools in Albany, and Port Angeles. The
kids were amenable. So we homeschool J four, five years,
Jase Evans will be listening. She just put up the big five.
And then she decided that she suddenly she
can count that's good. The homeschooling is good for
something.
Yeah, homeschool is when all the awards by the way for these
competitions. And he regrets No, none whatsoever. And she's a
straight A student got into college, no problem. And when
you know, can ask for much more than that. And the thing about
private schooling, everyone who's interested in thinking
about it, the child has to sign up. In other words, they have to
be on board if they're not on board, you know, so you can
throw it in their face. You said you wanted to do this? Not that
I do that would ever do that. But they have to be on board
once they're on board. And it's easy if they don't want to be
homeschooled and they want to go to school. It's a different
story.
I have a question. Are you are you still doing the show there
without headphones? Are you still listening to me on the
speaker? Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's amazing to me.
I first worked at one time I was up in Vancouver on a radio show.
Bill good. He was the big talk show guy in Vancouver, Canada,
and I was writing for the Vancouver Sun. And you go in
there and he was this was the way it was. He had no
headphones. He was a host, you know, most of these radio guys
who like to modulate their voice with the headphones. Yeah. That
would be me. Exactly. You know, and but he was known as all free
air and I was thinking and it worked pretty well. It sounded
good. And then I over time, I just got sick of having those
headphones on. And so I put in even when I when I started doing
Leo's Twitch show, I had I used headphones at first because
these these Heil mics, right, really, you can really modulate
the heck out you can really sound great with a baby. And And
did I give I just gave up.
Now that's interesting. I can't do it really? Because I need to
hear the exact mix that's going out. You know, and just
everything because I you have a large you know, the high
percentage that I'd screw it up?
Yeah, well, when I do the Horowitz show I have to wear
headphones because I'm running everything through the I have to
I just have to there's no
another question. Do you have like the it's a really light in
your room. I've never seen your your studio slash you know, I
turn off all the lights. I got a little you know, like dimly lit
lighting above the the desk area and everything else is off. I
like it really dark. Ah, interesting.
Yeah, no, I'm fine. I tried on like a dark at all. Hmm.
Hi, John. Since the beginning, this is from Greg s since the
beginning of no agenda. Have you changed your mind on any of
Adam's crackpot topics in the second half of the show such as
911 UFOs, Moon bases stargates vaccines and other conspiracies?
Let me fish I know it's not a great question. But I think
listeners would like to know the answer. I've CC to Adam, just in
case he wants to chime in on this one. Greg's dearly.
I'm a little more liberal on some of the things namely the
911 thing because the World Trade Center seven Yeah. So I
and other things that I've seen read and heard. So there's
something fishy going on. So I'm a little more amenable to that
the flying saucer thing? Not really a stargate no way in
Leicester on the other side, I do believe it's possible as a
stargate and on the other side are more fish. So except for
that
I got I got I got a lot of questions about the so called
you know, a second half of the show. Where where's all the
crazy second half of the show stuff and, and you know, I
generally don't report on things that I don't believe in myself.
And you know, sometimes you can't just go making it up like
oh, it's second half of the show. I need some bullshit items
to throw at people. I don't I don't do that. But also as I was
thinking about it, the the world has gone so crazy. Since our
200.5 episode, that the second half of the show started the
opening of the show. Things are so nuts sometimes it's just you
I sit here and go like I can't believe this is actually taking
place
in the second half of the show is essentially the Homeland
Security. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I ya know, I've noticed this
too, but I it's theirs Not that much. Maybe once in a while,
maybe once every couple of months, there'll be some
sighting or there'd be some really good video on YouTube of
a thing flying across the sky in China, that can't be verified or
unverified. And it's, it's an interesting point of animation,
but there's no real story. The second half of the show is not
what it used to be.
Well, no, but this, you know, it's like, no,
but that's where the stuff belongs. If we go, you know, but
a lot of hit some couple days. A lot of
you know, we've probably there's been an increase in thanks to
YouTube UFO videos and crop circles and strange stuff. But
Hello, this is radio slash audio. That just doesn't work.
You know what I'm gonna do? Hey, listen to this. This audio of
people going all the convoluted. You don't want to
play the otter that guys who saw the double rainbow,
we played that? No, that was worth it. That was a good one
man. Man. Yeah. What are there any questions? Any more
questions on that?
Yeah. Whatever happened to the no agenda library, which is
Gardner's other question.
I don't know. We'll see. We don't maintain this stuff.
This stuff is not for us. Bentley asks, How many people
have screwed up the subject line? And most of them okay.
Fear you only wonder where do you guys? Oh, here's what yeah,
this is a good one. If the donor gave you guys a large amount,
$100,000. dollars, would you realistically let him or her
have any fluid? any influence on the show? What about naming
rights? If I signed a contract to pay you guys, x $100,000. A
year? Would you rename the show no agenda presented by Val
Janelle, for example? Huh. Think we did have a thing that we will
give will give naming rights to Monsanto for 5 million? Well,
you
know, here's the bottom line. The only way if, first of all,
not having advertisements is not because we just can't get
advertisers. Or that most advertisers would shy away from
many of the topics that we discuss. But it's really about
influence and the automatic compromise that you make. So
regardless of who, what, where whatever, you know, I would not
put in a contract saying, I won't speak badly of vaginal,
you know, that wouldn't go so you know, probably the
Yeah, but that's, that's always assumed,
well, then we'd have to have our money upfront.
We're not doing what is not gonna happen. That's where we
need individual donors org.org/n A, and N two is not going to
happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to
happen. Usually, my main reasons
really not gonna happen. The main reason we're not going to
do it is because it's just not going to happen.
We've set up the show, so it won't happen. It's actually
predestined to happen. Nobody could possibly deal with
sponsoring the show. If somebody really liked the show, and they
felt obliged to produce it. They would, they would know enough
about the show to just give us the MCSA money. Exactly, yeah.
$100,000 we take
that and we'd give an executive producer, well, we'd give you
more we'd give you like a barony for sure. Sure. Definitely.
Definitely. I for one personally, there's there's not
a day, I think that doesn't go man probably more than once in a
while. But so often, I think, wow, how awesome is this that
we're doing? You know, I'm, I'm always on because I can't
disappoint. You know, we've got to continuously do a good show.
Because if we phone it in so to speak, or if we just start to
suck, then, you know, I'll be out of a, you know, I'll be
looking for a job.
Clayton meringue asks, How did the two of you come together to
start this show? That is explained? And then yeah, 200.5
He should be listening to that. So that's in already been
explained.
One Yeah. Chad Johnson says Hi, Adam, Leo, and I would love to
have you on the show this weekend. Are you available at
3pm Pacific on Sunday? I know.
It's bad timing.
It's bad timing. I'm getting married. I'm leaving. Second
time I don't know
who's on the show this Sunday. I'm not going to be on it.
That's next week. I'll be on a DA
that's why this is why the doing a Hail Mary had Saturday. Who
can we find? Pink curry?
Yeah, but yeah, well tell me getting married and it'd be that
you got any others or we'll get back to the show and then wrap
it up for
I think we yeah, we went to five. Yeah, we dropped back into
the show. There's another what is that? Probably like another
half hour left or so
I think about 40 minutes.
Okay. And we'll be back to wrap it up. So back to May 17 2010
with the continuation of episode Code 200.5 A couple of couple of
questions from Sir Troy Walters I just want to go down the list
make sure we didn't miss anything. How did you come up
with promotions like the knighthoods
and although the knighthood thing by the way, I will take
credit for that and I'll tell you why. I although I think we
discussed and I think you're the one that probably pushed the
idea I could probably
probably the name of a knighthood is probably what I
might contribution
well the knighthood thing and one of the one day and I've said
this, I've done this with everybody who knows me will have
heard this probably at one time or another and I know I took
random paths to Adam, every time some American I think it's
supposed to be illegal to receive a knighthood from the
Queen, but they do. Anyway, every time somebody said, Why is
what's the queen? What's so special about England that
they're granting? knighthoods? Why don't we grant knighthoods,
right? Why can't we just grant and what can anybody why can't
Ford Motor Company grant knighthoods? What differences?
Yeah, that's good. So, so ours are just as good as the Queen's?
I think so. And I think we have a better group, that's for sure.
The Knights that have been on our list are they're fantastic
people, every one of them,
I have a plan by the way of making a night iPhone app. That
will only be for nights. And it'll be limited for a number of
reasons, but only be for nights. And, and it'll be like our, our
communication model, like a network a night network.
Now, that's a good idea.
Yeah, I think it'd be kind of fun. And we'd like a bad signal.
I still want a bad signal. We're gonna need it one of these days.
We've got a lot of professional people in the knighthoods. We
don't have a doctor, we have a dentist,
do we have a lawyer? Oh, you know, that's what you need.
Right? You need a lawyer?
Or we need a butcher?
Yes. Hell yeah. A farmer? Farm? What drives the new promotions?
That's a good question. Depends on how you interpreted Of
course. And I will say all the emails, promotion ideas, John
does all of that I do the production of the show, John
does all of that stuff.
Yeah, I'm the marketing guy. Mainly because I've always
admired certain forms of marketing that are very rarely
executed by the general public. And by that I mean, or by
General companies, or little operations like ours. And by
that, I mean PBS, and, and religion, churches, because the
model is so interesting that you get people that like you so
much, because you're doing something for them. And that's
what PBS and churches are perceived as doing the ones
giving you good help, and you're spiritually and the other ones
educating you out of mainstream media supposedly, and, and I
their model for getting money. And by the way, I have a
background in public radio, I had a couple of shows two
different shows, that were on public radio for over almost 10
years, about computers. And I saw the mechanism, how it works,
and how much money they get, and all the rest of it. And I always
said, you know why, you know, why does it just have to be
those two groups? And then, of course, the publishing, you
know, the the direct payment for a novel is a different kind of a
thing. Why are these the only two groups that are using this
model? A? And does anyone notice that they're actually pretty
successful with this model? Thank you. There's some churches
out there that have, you know, not counting the mega churches,
but but decent sized churches with maybe 2000, to 3000
parishioners, and they got the guy with a Cadillac and a big
house, and they got plenty of money. And it's only like 2000
people that are supporting this entire parish. And it's like,
does anybody notice that this is looks like, you know, these
courts, the tax free thing doesn't hurt the guy. But it's
like, obvious it's a model that works and people don't mind the
model. I mean, we're not getting knighthood, donations, because
people think this is a dumb idea. Well, anyway, so I do the
promotions, I, I come up with them. You know, every once in a
while, we one comes forward and say, well, here's an idea. We
this is this people would like so you know, it's kind of like
selling the dream kind of thing. I'm not sure that I do. I used
to be in direct marketing.
I say that, you know, when people ask me about this, I say
looking and we have a church and our religion is the truth or as
close as we can get to it.
There's that element. I think we you know, we seem to offend a
few people if we go over the off the deep end with the church
angle, but the fact of the matter is we do the thing on
Sunday morning, and I'm sure a lot of people don't go to church
and listen to us instead. Or football. It'd be interesting to
see what since we're in Full Tilt here trying to maximize our
incomes. It'll be interesting to see what the drop off is on
listenership and the live stream during the football season. Oh,
interesting. Yeah, well, that well and by the way, we do look
at that, that kind of you look at
all in numbers, we keep track of stuff. Eric likes to dream up
weird reports. And we look at them and we know where we're
headed. And we're doing fine. We're not doing well enough that
we can quit and do this full time. And, and you know, that's
which is okay being in a struggling situation is not a
bad thing. And the show I think, is sound. If I can say is it
harder
to be excited for the next show if donations are down on the
previous show? It is for Adam. That's not true. It's not like
I'm less excited. Who said so once No. And even then you
misinterpreted what I said, what I what I meant was, first of
all, it bums me out because I take that as a, as a direct
result of the program of the product that we produced. It
bums me out. Yeah, it bums me out. It doesn't make me less
excited. No, it motivates me. It gets me motivated to do a better
show that we've deconstructed. And John, by the way, you got to
know this. He's like, like the horrible uncle you never wanted.
He'll send you notes like, well, that thing you did that made
donations dropped through the floor. And as horrible and I
know, and it took me like two months to figure out that this
is bullshit that he's just writing that just to piss me
off.
No, I was writing it for a good reason. Because I believed it to
be true.
It's the way you write it is like the way email, grandpa.
Yeah, sorry. Don't be such a dick.
I suppose I should put a bunch of smiley faces and that really
make you happy?
Yeah. Good. This is what I love about you. What is the single
most enjoyable element of the show for each of you?
Hmm, that's a great question. And I don't like saying the term
a great question. But it's a thoughtful question makes you
think. Like, I think when the show ends? I think ours
there? Well, first of all, there is no element in the show. I
think that's that's that we have no fixed elements. That's true.
The only thing that's fixed is donations.
And we do that about an hour and 45 minutes to an hour. Yeah. So
we've talked about that, because we noticed the donations fall
off if we push that thing off to near the end, because a lot of
people to be honest about do not listen to the entire show.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I get a lot of emails from people. I'm
like, can we just we just did that two weeks ago? Like how can
you send me this email? And yeah, I agree. A lot of people
don't get through the whole show. Which by the way, it's
okay. It's okay. And for people who listen to who'd like oh,
that was theirs. This is what I love this fast forward. You can
fast forward through something you think is boring.
I guarantee you'll be backing up.
I think so too. For me while this is gonna sound kind of
weird, most enjoyable, personally enjoyable. I like it
when I have either an article or a clip and I get praise from
you.
Yeah, I'll do that because I actually keep a running score.
But it's just for me but you I know you're paying attention to
it. And I'll and I'll score a goal for you when you hit one
that is like completely catches me flat footed. I got nothing on
it. I got a maybe my take is even wrong, because your take is
better. And it's and it's interesting. And so you get I
saw give you a Kudo right on the spot. And it's very insincere,
by the way and you usually only do it when I know I can't top
you. You can actually come up with something that's better
than that where you got the kudos something really stunning,
but I know I've got a topper. Yeah. And so I won't give you
the Kudo then.
So that's kind of interesting. Do we have a weird father son
relationship? No, no,
no, it says a teammate relationship where you're trying
to compete for that position of dominance. Okay. Yeah. I think
as a team, it's a team orientation where the two guys
are working to to win, but you know what, you want to be the
guy that thinks okay, if you score the goal, you scored the
goal. Okay. You scored the goal. Next time. I'll score the goal
you prick. Yeah. Yeah, that's
a good analysis.
So Father and Son thing doesn't work that way. Because father
and son would be it'd be more patronizing. I'm not
patronizing. I'm straightforward. That's true.
That's true.
I'll give you that I
know how much you'd like that to be the case but no, not gonna
happen.
I don't think so.
I got a little thing here a little aside. I had Eric run the
numbers on which country listens to us and where we get most of
our support
from that's actually that is a question so and here's
the answer what Okay, now I'm gonna I'm gonna do it too
because I have the numbers and you don't so this is my rare
opportunity to make you do what we do on the show quite a bit
which is make one the other person guests knowing full well
that they'll never guess it correctly. And it's just kind of
a stalling tactic. But guess who's number one?
Now is this in total amount of donation this will be both
donors
in the amount but It's gonna go by the total amount but it's
this but it turns out the numbers match pretty well with
the one to one pretty much with the donors versus and
totals. I will say that the Netherlands is very high on the
list. Who's number one? Oh, please. Well, number one's got
to be America, of course
by a factor of nine. Yeah. All right. So now it gets
interesting. Number two, and I before you answer, I'm going to
tell you right now you're not going to get it. Australia. Oh,
geez. You got
the scars. Oh, no, I know. I knew I knew Australia had to be
really high. Oh, I
shouldn't have given you the tea's No,
no, I knew it. I knew this because I mean, we've had I
trained I track it kind of in my head. I'm like, Man, I get
stories. The Aussies are. They're really into us, you
know, but don't mess with them. Man. These guys will mess you
up. And they don't like what's going on and I can almost guess
you know, by which country is is the most oppressed. So of course
America wins. And then Australia and I think the Netherlands has
got to be third or fourth on the list
for now. Actually, it Netherlands actually comes in
six. It goes like this United States, Australia, Canada,
Canada, right. Yeah, I forgot United Kingdom and Netherlands
UK as well. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.
I actually thought that Netherlands would come in a
little higher. But no. And a couple of the guys that the
reason is because the Netherlands The guys who do
contribute to the show from from the from Belgium, are very,
they're they're aggressive. Right. You know, Pels, mockers?
Oh, he's in Belgium, Belgium. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Belgium comes
in, then it comes Germany, Belgium, Norway, Sweden,
Finland, Switzerland, Mexico. And then we have an anomaly with
Japan, which has very few people listening, but they give a lot
of money. And same with Hong Kong. That's where all the money
is. There we got Spain, Italy, France, Denmark is actually
higher, but they don't give any money. They're like, they're
cheap, cheap.
But damn Danes.
They're Danish or GrapeCity. Cheap. And then Poland, Poland,
which is like, that doesn't count. They don't even the non
English speaking countries. It doesn't bother me. It's
very interesting for the amount of that's really interesting.
For the amount of time we spend on or have spent on stories
about Poland. They're way down on the list. Oh, they're way
down the amount of time we spending on the UK and
Australia. That's about right. Yeah. So and, and Canada, we
probably should do more on Canada.
Yeah, the Canadians are completely starting to complain
about it. And thereby and you know, it's easy enough to do I
mean, it's kind of hard to beat this hour has 22 minutes or
whatever the name of the show is that nails and constantly, we
got some support in Singapore. I mean, almost every countries,
Estonia, Dominican Republic, Malaysia, Qatar, Israel, one
person wishes that actually is the one that really surprises me
the most that we'd have one listener in Israel, you may be
blocked there for all I know could be could and Portugal with
me got much. You didn't get to have more from Brazil, since I'm
a writer there and fairly well known. But it's again, it's in
translation.
They may be writing all kinds of crap. You don't know what
they're translating it to
know the I know what they're trying to say. I've had a lot of
people I know a lot of Brazilians. And they one guy
said to me, once I know the translator, he's a great guy.
I've sat down with him and PowerPoint, like in 10 minutes.
The guy's fantastic. Let me
what was the PA? Oh, here's one that I can't answer. What are
the current subscriber numbers? So first of all, subscriber
numbers, since the word subscriber is a misnomer?
Because we really don't know how many people listen to the show
by downloading. We absolutely just don't know that. John, how
often and by the way, I don't think anyone knows in
podcasting, what their actual real numbers are. There is so
much smoke, about numbers,
you'd have to guess. And what would you guess? Well, based on
normal direct marketing returns and the kind of money we get it,
it's hard to say I mean, it could be anywhere from 50,000 to
400,000. Yeah, that's
about the same range I'm in and it's impossible to tell from the
downloads. And you know, the proxies. And of course, I'm sure
there's a small percentage that is maybe not downloading at all,
listening only to the stream, there's people getting a bit
torrent
because we only have you know, in terms of pure subscribers
that are paying the $5, we only have about 1500 of those people.
We have not pushed very, very hard to do the $5 thing some
people done to 30 Some people say, I'm not going to do it till
you make it 10. And I haven't put that up. So I mean, that's,
you know, and then they every time they change their credit
card or some number, they get bounced by Pay Pal. So they
don't have the subscription anymore. I get letter saying,
Well, I sorry, but I didn't realize I haven't had a
subscription for six months because Pay Pal bounced it. And
I gotta re subscribe. Sorry, you know, they apologize. And some
people get bounced for no good reason. That's, you know, we
were not that stable, that we need more subscribers, for sure.
We'll push they will be pushing that, probably on the show more.
Okay, I've
two more things. One more. One is I actually would like to know
how you prep for the show. I think I already explained what I
do,
I don't do, I don't generally what I do is I typically take
the articles and things that I found. And I print them out and
pile them up as they as they come because I get most of my
stuff online. And then I'm always making clips because I
have an h2 recorder by the by my side at all times. And I'm
constantly jumping up even with the full family could be
watching a movie or something I'm jumping up and stopping the
movie, backing it up and then getting a clip. And then you
know, so I collect a lot of I spent most of my time collecting
clips and articles, and I don't organize them very well is
because of the nature of the show, I've always assuming that
it's going to go anywhere, because you never know where you
know who's going to bring up a topic that gets interesting in
the conversation itself. So I show I'm probably underprepared
in terms of pure preparation, not in terms of the work that
goes into getting the clips and all and reading a lot. But in
terms of like thinking about what I'm going to do, I do
occasionally will take a bunch of notes early, if you watch the
or listen to the show, maybe a year ago, I would have these
notes, I used to ridicule myself for having taken terrible notes
I can't read. And that was a little more preparation, but I
find that it really hasn't didn't do anything to improve
the show. And it also kind of puts you if I if I prepare too
much, I'll try to dominate the show. And which kind of ruins
the pace of flow.
And the for me the only I do collect everything. Because I
find if you look at the show notes versus what we talked
about in the show, I mean, the show notes are often four times
as much information. And I think that is a valuable part of the
show for people to be able to go and research stuff and look at
things and there is a reasonable segment of the audience that
really uses that and appreciates it and looks at it. Some of the
iPhone apps give you good access to it and search ability. But
I'm all I'm typically always hoping, just hoping that I can
find from a radio production perspective. Here it is. I'm
hoping that there's one or two zingers that I have either it's
a clip or it's a story or something and I'll work on that.
And I cannot go to bed on a Wednesday night or a Saturday
night without knowing I have something and I sometimes will
try out my my rap on Mickey. I'll say how does this sound?
And usually I get shot down. Yeah,
I refuse to do that. I think that's overdoing it.
I get shot down. Good.
So here's a quick question that somebody has for you. What
happened to the global blank fund? Adam was supposed to have
a big report on it. The what? Remember that fun. You were
talking about that? That money that was hidden during the
Reagan administration or something? Oh, you know?
Yeah, the was a French name.
Yeah, it was birthed from client Monday. Okay. Well, you know,
there's there's your answer, Brian.
Yeah. No. Well, I hit so many dead ends, and I just don't have
the time to spend my life. Yeah. And it's not going to bring
bring anything. It is there's there's, I guess the answer is,
no one has done enough reporting that at least that I could find
that makes it believable, believable or credible enough.
And the only way to really get into it is I'd have to do the
investigative work myself. And that's obviously not going to
happen.
Okay. Hugs a lot asks, what's the actual cost of producing the
show? Most podcasts have zero budgets and still produce shows.
DSC is done free?
No, no, it's not. That's not true. DSC is a part of what
these founding and sustain sustaining producers of the no
agenda stream donated their money for and we'll have to do
another drive. And you know, what is the actual cost? And
what does it cost you to go to work? You know, there's actual
costs. This is actual time it's there's preparation. Value for
value. That's the way it works. Time is definitely money. So is
it Is there actual, you know, would you like me to charge by
the hour? The amount of time it took me to set up the studio?
That's just one little thing? No, you
don't not sure what? Actually the question to me is vague. I
don't know what it means. dz picks asks what iPhone iPad app
does Adam use for the jingles sound bank,
I use a program called sound bite B yt e, one word sound bite
on the Mac. It is created made by black cat software. And I've
just kind of been, they essentially replicated a cart
machine, they look like cards, you can color them like you
would color a an A card as a cartridge, just as the old
school way of putting jingles into a jingle machine. And it's
pretty customizable. And what's nice about it is they released
an iPhone app, which I can run on the iPad, although it kind of
sucks because it's it runs in iPhone mode, and you kind of
enlarge it and it doesn't work very well. In fact, today, I
didn't use it at all. But normally, I do. And it brings up
the screen of your kart deck the way it looks on the computer
screen. And the only way if I had, I would prefer to have an
extra monitor instead of having the the iPad run that. Because I
use two monitors because I have a lot of stuff that I have to
monitor. And really what I need is I need to be able to connect
a third screen to my laptop. I don't think that's an easy thing
to do, though.
Okay. Here's an interesting question. You Me You I should be
able to answer I'm gonna have you do it if you can. I bought
gnokii 71. Because you said you like and how do I get the stream
to work on it? Can we do that?
There is actually in the Nokia Ovi Store, which is their
version of the app store. There is a just released if you go
there. And it's like create your own Nokia app, I think they're
actually calling them apps, you can enter the RSS feed for no
agenda. And it will create an app for your phone. And then you
can put that on your phone. It does not do the streaming bit
but you can get streaming programs all over the place for
for the Nokia. But I think it's more interesting just to be able
to, to make your own app for the for the for the episodes. So
that's how you do that. And Blackberry, by the way, also was
coming out they called me like yeah, we're gonna do podcasting
on the Blackberry. Can you log in and put in your shows for
your company and I put it in? No agenda, daily source code, tech,
five top five cranky geeks and then I got bored. So apparently
there's some podcasting thing on BlackBerry. So yeah. Any more
from the chat room?
This is Twitter. Let me see if there's one more here. There was
one hold on
one second, just got to see who's texting me.
Oh, my cute guy says the show's gone from a show with no jingles
and no talent to a glut of both. I thought that was kind of
unique. It's gone to a what? Do we have a glut of talent
apparently on the show. It's just the same two guys. Somebody
else asks, the show has changed a lot since its inception is the
same guy actually opera now? Do you prefer the new format? And
uh, you know, obviously we do, or wouldn't be doing it. And the
audience does more than the audience does, too. I mean, you
know, the show is, you know, has its,
you know, you know, I've been broadcasting long enough, you
always have people who say, Oh, it was much better than Oh, it
was better, though.
No, I have the same thing. As a writer, you get this I have
people that still say when you are writing that column for
InfoWorld It was much better. Yeah, I looked at those I can go
back and look at that old crap. And it wasn't generally
speaking, things improve.
I guess it's just, it's just the nature of the beast
is that it's in the nest. Algea or, you know, people at some
point people either like you more in time, because they hear
you more, they read you more, or they like you less in time, and
then they associate that with maybe you were doing something
different before generally speaking your word.
Alright, so wrapping this up. What's the future? Well, we
got another two other shows to do.
At least no, we have what we have at least until episode 333.
Well, before
we do another promotion like the deuce Club. Well, we got to
thank all the dues club members profusely, we'll do that over
time and on the web page. And I think you know, we not showing
any indication of slower growth, but people still like to show I
think the great thing and we've talked about this off off off
the air a lot. There's a there's so much material for us. Yeah, I
think the show there's only Look, there's only growth
because it just comes automatically. It's
getting worse. Yeah, they're laying everybody off the the the
Obama administration is getting worse. They're lying to the
public just straight out. You know, there's these crazy things
that Hill and Knowlton are doing. I mean, now that I find
that they're the behind all the global warming stuff, you know,
we're doomed, that that's gonna go through because you can't
stop the Hill and Knowlton. I don't know, are you?
Are you worried that the show will ever get like taken off the
air?
Not seriously. But it could be it could take be taken off the
air. I don't think
this, by the way, is a huge benefit of, of our model.
Because if you have advertisers, that's the attack mechanism,
that's where your weakest when the minute someone doesn't like
what you say, Look at look at Imus, you know, and that's just
one example. The minute you go somewhere that they don't like
you then then the audience. For us, it's easy. The audience like
what we do, we get no money. It's like, okay, we can turn
that around in one episode, we can go, Okay, we went off the
track there, we can get it back on. But when your advertisers
pull out, then the network goes nuts. And then you're then
you're out of a job, you're dead. You're gone your history,
and you lost it. You know, there was you don't have control from
the get go. Yeah. And that's another reason I think the
direct support is the way to go is open source. We don't care if
one of the things that's great about our say, well, one of the
you know, if somebody's bootlegs, the show puts on their
own website takes credit for it, say they produce it, I don't
care. The fact is, our messages are embedded in the show. And
they it goes with us, we don't need to prove numbers, we don't.
So all our numbers from Arbitron came in, and we got to three,
three, and this is the hero Look, Mr. advertiser, give us
some more money. We have a better CPM, we have a certain
demo, they have to prove our demo. And we had to prove the
CPM and this and that. And the other thing, I mean, it's
ridiculous
for those days when you when you wait for the arbitrations to
come out in the whole station was like tiptoeing around, well,
we know the trends are down. So we're, How bad will it be? Or?
Yeah, we don't deal with any of that. We don't want to it's
ridiculous. And we completely independent. We don't have
anybody telling us what to do. We don't have advertisers
telling us what to do, which is the real danger here. And
without exception, the only way we would be taken off the air is
if the government or somebody sued us, or the government
decided to pull the PLA are they who knows I mean that but that's
not going to happen. We're gonna look we're below the radar.
We're crackpots. We believe it. We're conspiracy theory people
know. And maybe we'll get taxed for being conspiracy theory,
guys. Yeah, that's the worst thing that could happen. Well, I
can live well, it seems to me that Alex Jones will get taken
out before we do and that would be a nice warning shot. We he's
the he's the canary in the cage, as far as I'm concerned, even
though I don't think he does have to do work we do.
I think he has good guests. But that's a different format.
But no, we can't. That's another thing. That's the one question
we should at least before we finish. We cannot do two hours.
Yeah. Well, we've
done it again.
Before we finish it, you know, the people say, Well, can I be a
guest on your show? Do you how can we don't do this? How can we
don't do that? We may do some separate interview shows
separately that will be on the stream that will be part of some
other initiative. This show is what it is. It's two guys
talking to each other about the current events just like you do
in a coffee shop with your buddies is no guests. We don't
you when you're in the coffee shop, you know, it's a man
coming in to have a guest you know, so and so who just
finished the book. So what was your book about? This is not the
Larry King show,
right? Well, anyway, so yeah, we were going to do an hour we're
moving up now on what are we to have the exact recording here we
are at 145. Good job. Thank you again, to everyone who supports
no agenda, who supported this show. The deuce club thanks to
everyone who's out there and making websites and crazy ideas
and, and promoting us. It is also your show. So I could just
say thank you, John. Thank you. I thank you I really it's the
highlight of my week. Twin that happens twice a week
and we'll try to do these special third shows every so
often. And what are we gonna talk about? Well, I think we
talked out I'll bet we could do another two hour I
you know I was just about to say not a problem
and in our in our spouse what do you think it's so weird that I
don't use headphones
it's it's a typical for for radio guys and
a typical but but I managed it because I you Is this the the
the pop screen? Yeah as my point of departure. And so if I keep
my lips within a quarter inch of the pop screen, I'm within range
of this microphone.
We're back By the way, with the last bit of this special
episode, and this is you can tell that we speak exactly the
same way off air as we do. Why do you think that's a weird?
Yeah.
That's, you know, reminds me of like, I tell people this when
you give them trying to give people teleprompter training
that. And then the funny thing is when I remember years and
years ago is doing some, some audio radio thing of some sort.
And I was reading advertising copy. And there was just a
moment where the read became my actual voice.
Oh, and that's when you get the gig, obviously. And you go, Oh,
my
God, that sounds so cool. Yeah, sounds actually natural. Now, by
the way, there's one thing I did want to mention that in the
first half is this. stammering I do all the time, I think is
annoying. Thank God, people don't bitch about it.
I don't notice that at all. Yeah, well, I
do when I hear myself.
Well, you know, everyone has, there's a lot of stuff I don't
like about how I talk.
Now, you sound a lot better than I do. Anyway. So I think this is
pretty much wraps this show up? Well, just
wanted to say they're the format. We're not the format. If
anything, the show has kind of developed a format. That for me,
you know, there there there is a change, which was driven more by
the world around us. And when I say the world, I mean, the media
world, is that now that there's less than less news, actually
being presented in, you know, in on in the mainstream media. I
think that both of us have have taken it upon ourselves to work
much harder, had actually finding, you know, new doors. I
mean, we're doing more uncovering, and I mean, I
jokingly call myself a government legislation analyst.
Did you get the email from the guest says that was redundant.
No, I don't or I haven't seen it yet. Oh, yeah. Well, a
guy says, what could you call yourself that all legislation is
government legislation, or it can't be called legislation? So
you're being redundant. You shouldn't be calling yourself an
independent legislation analyst.
No, there's something that doesn't sound good at cocktail
parties. When you say insulation analyst. Yeah, no,
I'm just telling you, you need to realize it's redundant. Now,
yeah, I think that will you've done a lot more reading of deep
reading and gotten into reading legislation. I had not gone that
way I have. I'm more. I'm still flipped, floundering in some of
this stuff.
No, I disagree. Because you're doing something interesting.
You're especially the last couple of shows. You've been
tuning into a lot of foreign media sources. Still English
spoken in general?
Yeah, I have gone to the foreign sources. And then, because
that's the only thing I've been able to do where I'll bring
these stories up. And you haven't heard in, which proves
my point, that these stories are not getting out there yet. Some
of these stories are interesting, like the Cambodian
child,
it hits CNN, no, actually, me. Yeah,
we that's another thing we we've done over we since the Red Book
began. And actually even before that, people are finally
realizing that we're way ahead of the curve on some of these
stories are way ahead of the curve.
Well, yeah, just look at drones. I mean, I think I don't think it
was in 205. That I can't remember. But I know we were
talking about drones as far back as 2010. And it kind of creeps
up on you. And sometimes just gotta remind myself like, man,
we've been talking about this for so long. And we were joking
about drones overhead. Now it's mainstream conversation. Just
mainstream conversation.
So let's wrap this one up, give people a heads up on the next
show. And then we hope they'll keep helping us here. Yes, with
the donations to even though we're not live. We are live to
tape. But it's
and we're going to be back for a brief intro live to tape for
Sunday show, which will be a compilation of episodes 381
through 84 through 384. A lot about pipelines, which is lane,
which is kind of good because our general theory has not
changed that the world is pretty much about oil, and drugs. And
that's
if it fits all the storms, arms, good hips, get some play. Yeah,
yeah. That Well, drugs and arms.
Then there's that. Yeah, so tomorrow, I will be a married
man.
Congratulations.
Thank you so much. And as always, we appreciate all the
support from all of our producers around Gitmo nation.
We'll be back with the as I said with the special the pipeline
special on Sunday. Until then, in the morning, everybody. I'm
Adam curry,
and from Northern Silicon Valley am John C. Dvorak.
devora.org/n A