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podcasting 2.0 for April 2 2021,
Episode 31 we're cooking with

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gas you know how to like the
stove that is no electricity

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gets harder right? Everybody has
Friday once again time for the

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board meaning of podcasting 2.0
everything that's going on at

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podcast index.org You are
welcome Come on in we've got

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your seat ready we got a lot to
talk about today and we have

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another assessor of the board so
it's always good to have a guest

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on I'm Adam Curry here in Austin
Texas and now in Alabama the man

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all the ladies want to rebalance
their channels with my friend on

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the other end ladies gentlemen

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not that's it that's in the
cards if it's about money that's

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that's the ladies come on Dave
the ladies love them some dev

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from from the south. Do you

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think will you think we're gonna
win and ambi

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and Andy? Yeah, no, I I can
quite confidently say you that

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there is 0.1% chance of us ever
winning an award

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at all. It's just how you define
your categories. If you slip

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your category like if you reduce
your category footprint down as

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low as possible to the to the
smallest niche you could win

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that's it you went you lower the
bar until you achieve success

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now our our category is most
listeners for a podcast that

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does not exist in it

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yeah that is kind of weird the
way that's worked out well and

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with with award shows the way to
do it is you create an award

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show and then give yourself all
the awards this is the art What

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is it the gosh what's that big
industry award they're always

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handing out but the airlines
always have in the car companies

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have the jD

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jD power awards yeah you pay for
you pay and you get what kind of

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statue Do you want you want a
nice trophy or do you want just

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the Lucite one you can say more
than you that's how you do it.

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It's like the I art radio you
got all these awards but the

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enemies that's the podcast
Academy right

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yeah, I'm just thinking that
that I mean that category

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specifically has got to be just
like us and like I don't

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we we can't be a part of the NBA
because we're not diverse

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enough.

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Oh yeah. Well that's true.

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Yeah, this to two white guys you
know you don't get an bs for

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that stuff, man. It's not how it

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works. There's no other podcast
with that demographic by the

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way.

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Really, no that's not true as a
lot of white girls doing

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podcasting to

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a diverse podcast is Nina Anita
posh. Oh,

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the What's her Bitcoin podcast
called again? It's I subscribe

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to it so I should know coin

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and Bitcoin and co yes Bitcoin
company. I like it.

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You know she has a very oddly
appealing presentation style you

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know the accent and everything.
There's something about it that

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I that I just kind of like

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and she she fit in. You get all
these like interview podcasts

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that have just sort of the same
people making the same rounds.

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And she had she digs up people
that are like, you I've never

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heard of half the people that
she interviews people you know

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people that are like from West
Africa doing Bitcoin? Yeah,

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stuff. I mean, like it. She
really digs up some cool people.

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I think it's a neat posh show is
what it's called, at least has

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to what I what I'm subscribed
to.

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I think she has to, oh, okay
shows if I'm not wrong,

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and well, I gotta look. I gotta
look at that.

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But this just falls into the
bucket of Dave says things that

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are that are absolutely wrong
with extreme confidence.

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factcheck false. Like, you know,
okay, so irata a piece of errata

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here. Yes. I said that audible
is not support chapter titles.

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That is, that is wrong. They do.

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Oh, okay.

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Well, if you say it, but if you
say it forcefully enough. It

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made it. It's, it's true.

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Yes. No, just keep repeating it.
That'll work. Yeah. All you

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cheapskates out there
immediately go to your value

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sliders, crank them up. Come on,
I see you on breeze and get us

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past 10 sets a minute you can
crank that up. You might as well

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boost if you feel like it. Ah,
feels so good to be receiving

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all those little SATs dripping
in every single day. 24 seven

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now, Dave? It doesn't stop. You
see it? How about pod friend?

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Okay, so this was what I've been
waiting for. pod friend released

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today, including value from
value streaming. And it's I

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think Martin did the right
thing. So let me just get

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something out to you can't
change the the boost or the

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sastra minute yet. And I'm
missing an overview of what's

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been spent But Holy crap, best
if there was an ambi for best

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onboarding, that would be, that
would be it. I mean, I was up

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and running in 25 seconds.
That's how that's and I already

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have the app they just it
appeared all of a sudden,

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there's every podcast that is
value block enabled has a little

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button right there and surface
just like the funding tag was

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beautiful. I'm not sure I've
ever been so happy.

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giving money.

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I know, I know. I would I Oh, my
God is working as a team in this

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morning's like. Where's my
update? It's not it's not on

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iOS? Yeah. discriminated against
again. Yeah, yeah, but go ahead.

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No, I like that. I think it was
delightful. That's the best word

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that I can use to describe for
me just going through the

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wizard. Like step by step. It's
like, here's what's gonna

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happen. You know, here's what
you're about to do. You're about

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to give money away. Oh, yeah.

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This is total pod friend.
Friendly language.

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It is it is. And I think that's
the like how you can just enable

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it and disable it. It's like
you're halfway through and

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you're like, I don't even I'm
not sure what this is. Okay, I'm

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out of turn it off and

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done. Exactly. Yeah. The. And I
liked that onboarding, without

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the whole Bitcoin piece just
with the lightning piece, which

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you can send it from cash app.
Now you put stripe in there. Did

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he mean to say strike?

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I think so. You think

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so too. I think he mentioned
strike instead of stripe. There.

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And I know that you That was the
funniest thing this past week.

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JACK Mahler's from the strike
app all of a sudden. And then by

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the way, this is how it works.
And this is what I've always

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said. It's always the content.
It's always the marketing comes

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from the podcast listeners and
podcasters themselves. And one

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of the one of our 2.0 value
podcasters, who was set up over

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there on Satoshi streams.com,
which also needs to be talked

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about holy crap. They figured
out the statistics part. She

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posts I think she I don't know
who it was, but posted. Wow,

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I've already made more money in
value for value streaming

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payments than I did with
advertising. This is the future.

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And then jack Mahler's from
strike app saw that. We talked

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two months ago. And and he said,
Wow, this is great. Does anyone

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know where there's a spec? How
do I implement this? And I would

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say, hey, jack, hey, and I
posted a link to the to the

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GitHub, and you followed up with
him?

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Yes, in an email earlier, that
just send an email, like it was

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basically a reply to the reply
that we had already had it in

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our thread with you. Right,
right, right. And I just said,

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Here's, by the way, here are the
API calls, you need to do this.

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It's just like these three or
four calls. And, you know, here

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you go via if you get any more
questions, holler.

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But even that, I mean, even if
he would just, I mean, it's a

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perfect on ramp for getting SATs
into any of these wallets. I

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mean, it's, it's, it's really
the way to go instead of

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necessarily buying Bitcoin
outright. It's just an

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interesting process. You know,
it's really interesting.

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And I won't claim to know, a ton
about strike, other than just

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what I've heard jack described.
And so I think, I think that is

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going to be the way that
lightning in enters the the

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ecosystem. Yeah, I agree. I
agree. Because it and people

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will get aggravated, because it
doesn't show you your SATs

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balance. But I think that's the
that's the that's, that's on

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purpose. Because like if you, if
you're there in a strike is not

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a currency exchange. Like
they're not a conversion system,

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they use lightning as just a
transport mechanism. They're

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real, they're real business is
to be able to send currency fiat

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currency from one place to
another. So they, what happens

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when you when you buy strike,
when you when you buy some

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currency on strike and send it
to another strike user, you're,

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you're they convert that theat
into into lightning, send it to

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the other country, convert it
back into the local fiat

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currency at the current exchange
rate, and then credit the other

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strike user, that's why it's not
available globally, right. It's

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basically they're just doing
current they're doing transport

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over the lightning network. And
the sad benefit that you get

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from that is because under the
covers as lightning, you can

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also pay lightning invoices with
a yes. But that's why they don't

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show you I sat and balances
because it's not a current. It's

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not a Bitcoin exchange. It's a
it's, it's Venmo Venmo

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Yes, it's Venmo and in fact, you
don't even buy currency with

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them. you hook it up to your
debit card or your bank account

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the same way do Venmo which by
the way, has a lot of downside

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from the security. Freedom, etc.
But that doesn't matter to me.

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And we do need to talk about
these things. So when you either

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transfer, it feels like you're
transferring it from your debit

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card or from your bank. And it
doesn't really matter how it

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gets to the other end. But in
this case, it also just works as

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a straight up mechanisms like
oh, I just want to I just want

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to top up my podcast wallet. And
oh, my God, the invoice that

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that is the piece that I agree
with. You blew me away with pod

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friend. It's like you want
enable it? Yes. Or enabled.

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Boom, hold on a second. And
here's how you do it. And here's

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your invoice. And I just flipped
over to what app that I use, I

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use to Sphinx app. And it popped
right up and said, Oh, I'm ready

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to send 20 20,000 SATs. Good to
go. boom, done. And then I

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switch back to pod friends and I
got a spew of confetti.

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Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

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Like, confetti splooge. I got a
must have received it. And for

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some reason, it's it just feels
tight. Man, it feels he can't

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even explain that. It feels
tight how it works. And then it

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just does it and it does it the
way you expect it. And the I was

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like, Okay, I boosted it's gone.
I can see this gone. Done.

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That's fine. Now we just need to
have I want to know how much

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value I transferred to each
podcast. As I said, That's, I

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think that's an important loop
closer. Which the sliders need

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to be there too. And well, I
mean, he has the variables are

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non changeable at the moment. So
really, the boost amount is too

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high. And the per minute rate is
too low. I'm a fighter. I'm a

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500 sat booster, and I'm 100
satta minute guy, that's kind of

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my comfort zone. knob. So I know
I'm going to be boosting most

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podcasts at least four times.
So, so there's a 2000 what I am,

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see what kind of guy are you
actually Dave Jones? I'm a 133.

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Booth. And that's the thing and
and yes, I'm a 333 on swings and

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here's the thing with the breeze
app, you can't do the

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numerology. This is and I told
Roy said Oh, man, this there's

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two pieces missing one you can't
baller against everybody because

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no one knows that you did that.
Which is problem one like in

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swings. Everyone sees what
you're doing. And you can't you

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can't do a custom amount that
that's what people want. They

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want they want to be
recognizable. That's an early,

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an early code indicator that
people really want to use like,

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Oh, I when I see 133 come
through. I know that's from

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Dave.

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Yeah, yeah, it's like it's your,
it's your idea is the other part

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of your identity. Okay, I'm 100.
But I'm 100 set on breweries and

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a 50. Set, I'm 100 set boost and
a 50. Set per minute on breeze.

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Yeah, achieved something and
achieved losers.

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So about identity, and it's just
something I wanted to throw out

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there. Moe is kind of my a
canary in the coal mine. And

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he's the guy that told me about
clubhouse months before became

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popular. And he has a very
specific set of ideas from his

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youth, his experience as a
YouTuber. What what the audience

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is looking for? And it's not
video, by the way. It's really

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the chat if people want to leave
comments, want to chat. The idea

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of the Super Chat with Chinua as
a paid comment, all of that

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stuff.

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So that's where that's where and
that's where Twitch, like, rose

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up because they I think they did
that. Exactly.

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Exactly. Exactly. So I got him
on the Sphinx app. He's seen

219
00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:34,560
SATs coming in. He's delighted
he and but he really thought

220
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:37,770
about it. And he said, you know,
here's what and it was part of

221
00:13:37,770 --> 00:13:41,460
what max Kaiser said, he said,
here's what really hit me. He

222
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:47,100
says, My identity might and who
I am as a as a broadcaster,

223
00:13:47,130 --> 00:13:50,910
regardless of whether it's you
know, how it's done. He says

224
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it's really my feed, isn't it?
Is my feed is my life. And it

225
00:13:55,620 --> 00:14:00,060
contains my payment information.
And Shouldn't I just have this

226
00:14:00,060 --> 00:14:02,730
is why I want to throw it out
there just shouldn't I just have

227
00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:07,440
a feed that anyone can get
through a QR code? And depending

228
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,830
on what you're doing, so if it's
a podcast app, it sucks in only

229
00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:17,280
the podcast if it's a if it's
some if it's a blog, or some

230
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,850
other type of we don't have them
anymore but a something that

231
00:14:20,850 --> 00:14:25,470
could just read an RSS feed. It
would only take those pieces

232
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:31,560
pictures would show up perhaps
in a in a mastodon. What's that

233
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,150
called? The not called pixel but
there's a kind of like an

234
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:39,090
Instagram knockoff on mastodon,

235
00:14:39,630 --> 00:14:42,780
but he Oh, that does the
embedding. Yeah.

236
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,650
And so but his it's, it's
interesting, because that, to me

237
00:14:46,650 --> 00:14:50,310
was a throwback to almost 20
years ago. That's exactly what

238
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:53,340
we were talking about. Everybody
will have their feed and you own

239
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:56,820
your feed, which you do. If
you're not an anchor, you own

240
00:14:56,820 --> 00:15:01,590
your feed. And that's your
identity. And that's really the

241
00:15:01,590 --> 00:15:06,300
value. And you know, and the
whole idea of flashing a QR

242
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:11,340
code, something was there that
really struck me at a deep level

243
00:15:11,970 --> 00:15:15,720
that we're not we forgotten to
think about, I guess, to make

244
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any sense

245
00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:20,340
specifically about the QR code
and being able to like that. No,

246
00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:21,420
just being your Well,

247
00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:25,530
just your feed being your entire
identity, and it'd be a go

248
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beyond podcasting.

249
00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:31,620
Yeah. Now, I can see that
because we, I think we had that

250
00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:33,750
failing back with the freedom
controller, because that's why

251
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we put those QR codes.

252
00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:37,980
Yes, you're right.

253
00:15:38,010 --> 00:15:41,220
You're right. Because there's
some kind of thing that says,

254
00:15:41,790 --> 00:15:47,160
This is like, I don't know, I
know what you're saying. It's

255
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:52,950
something about I think the QR
code has this feeling where it's

256
00:15:52,950 --> 00:15:56,430
like an anchor to something,
there's not going to ever go

257
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away. Like it feels like it's a
permanent sort of declaration of

258
00:16:02,190 --> 00:16:06,240
this. This entity. It's almost
like, like an NF t type

259
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,120
experience. And I know you're
not specifically talking about

260
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,380
just the QR code, but I mean,
like it, it I think it expresses

261
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:20,610
that expresses the feeling of
what's behind it, which is a is

262
00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:25,920
read as one sort of blob of data
with it with a QR code human.

263
00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:27,420
Did you Are you okay? Yeah, no,

264
00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:31,080
I lost for a second with you
mean that the QR code represents

265
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:31,500
that?

266
00:16:33,210 --> 00:16:35,730
Yeah, like, well, it represent,
it's what it represents. It

267
00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:39,300
represents this this location or
this brand identity. And it

268
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:41,910
could be the feed or whatever it
is, but then the QR code is just

269
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:45,690
sort of like this visual
representation of this thing.

270
00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:48,540
Right? that exists somewhere
else. It's like a bundle of

271
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information about

272
00:16:49,830 --> 00:16:53,460
Ah, yeah, it's like a fiber
optic nerve ending. There's

273
00:16:53,460 --> 00:16:55,800
like, if I just if I just
connect to that, then I'm going

274
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,550
to connect to this pipe somehow.
This blob of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

275
00:16:59,550 --> 00:16:59,880
Like,

276
00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:02,640
maybe we should take advantage
of that more and try to make

277
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,510
that more a part of things.
Because it would be See that's

278
00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:11,520
what you know, RSS feeds, or
podcast feeds are missing two is

279
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,080
this easy? Sort of scannable.
thing? The enlightening has

280
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,310
that. QR codes are all over the
place. Yeah. But there's no

281
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:26,400
there's no universal sort of IB
system. That that's like

282
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,940
scannable or easy to, you know,
what you end up with? Is these

283
00:17:29,940 --> 00:17:34,740
podcast landing pages with like
15 Badgett badge buttons on this

284
00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:36,480
says, Oh, do you wanna listen in
stitcher? Do you want to listen

285
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,000
in overcast? I want to listen in
this. And you got to call a guy

286
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,400
pick which one you want. So and
they're never complete?

287
00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:44,430
Yeah. So even that maybe it's
just a thought, you know? if,

288
00:17:44,550 --> 00:17:48,000
if, if Tina is listed some Tina
listens to other stuff that I

289
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,400
do. But it's on pod friend. And
if I said oh, what do you listen

290
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,630
to? And she's Oh, it's I know,
Victor Davis Hanson podcast, I

291
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:58,020
should be able to just take my
phone and flash a QR code from

292
00:17:58,020 --> 00:18:01,770
her phone. And I'm and I'm
subscribed and I'm set up, you

293
00:18:01,770 --> 00:18:04,350
know, as should be just good to
go. And it's a simple thing. It

294
00:18:04,350 --> 00:18:07,680
was just, I liked how mo
connected the feed to the

295
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,340
identity into the QR code. And
as there's something there to

296
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:14,100
explore, but really, I think
we're we're selling ourselves

297
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:16,320
short by not bringing in our
guests because I think he can

298
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,610
talk about this too. Shall we
bring them in? Shall we bring

299
00:18:20,610 --> 00:18:22,140
our assessor of the board in?

300
00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:25,560
I think we absolutely need an
auditor in this.

301
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:28,410
To go off the rails.

302
00:18:28,530 --> 00:18:31,200
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
the boardroom. The man who I

303
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,170
don't know all that much about
although I listened to him at

304
00:18:34,170 --> 00:18:37,440
least for an hour every single
week. He is a podcaster. He's a

305
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,250
broadcaster. He's a radio mogul.
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Sam

306
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:44,430
Sethi, also known as smokin Sam
Sethi.

307
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:49,020
Hello, hello. Should I intro?

308
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:51,540
Yeah, no, there was the
shittiest intro I've ever done.

309
00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:54,420
I'm sorry. I really I really
didn't know what to say. I mean,

310
00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:57,570
I know you do a lot and I didn't
want to peg you to one thing

311
00:18:57,570 --> 00:19:00,690
because I really know you from
pod land. That's my you know,

312
00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:03,240
that's kind of my weekend go to
podcast.

313
00:19:03,870 --> 00:19:05,760
Well, thank you for listening.
Well, I've

314
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,400
got I've got a question right
off the bat for you though

315
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,500
saying is yes. So a friend of
mine sent me this sent me this

316
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:21,360
link. This says Trinity College
in Perth, bans mullet haircut

317
00:19:21,390 --> 00:19:26,250
labeling dim, unacceptable. And
then so I'm like what, what the

318
00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:30,840
heck was was mullet a thing in
Australia. And then I find this

319
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,750
wall street journal article that
says the mullet makes a comeback

320
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:37,200
and divides Australia. Evidently
This is a humongous thing in

321
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,950
Australia about about the return
of the mullet. And I'm just

322
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:43,860
wondering, you know, I've never
actually seen James Cridland and

323
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:44,310
in real

324
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:47,970
life. Does he have a mullet?

325
00:19:48,750 --> 00:19:53,040
All we get is the business side
of James. There may be a party

326
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,420
in the back. Do we know that
that's not

327
00:19:54,420 --> 00:19:58,890
the case? Well, I think as part
of his Australian citizenship,

328
00:19:58,890 --> 00:20:04,710
he's had to grow up That's
what's happened. Well, you don't

329
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:06,480
see him. He's in the middle of
changing.

330
00:20:06,510 --> 00:20:07,110
I love it.

331
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:10,440
I'm going to, I'm going to
quote, I'm going to quote you,

332
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:16,350
Sam. Thank you about three weeks
ago on pod news. He said, I'm

333
00:20:16,350 --> 00:20:20,070
going, he said, I'm going to,
I'm gonna lose my podcast

334
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:22,200
virginity and go and Adam and
Dave Show.

335
00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:26,670
Yeah, really? I heard that. I
didn't know if I was supposed to

336
00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:28,500
be insulted or complimented. I

337
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:36,810
was born. We haven't even had
drinks. Yes. I mean, well, I

338
00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:39,120
think we should have drinks and
then I'll lose it for you.

339
00:20:39,209 --> 00:20:42,959
Okay. So Sam, you are, I'd like
to know a little bit about your

340
00:20:42,959 --> 00:20:46,559
background. because firstly, as
I said, pod land is really a go

341
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:49,739
to for me, I enjoy it very, very
much. And I and I like the

342
00:20:49,739 --> 00:20:54,149
dynamic between you and and
James, you know, because of

343
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:57,359
course, you know, we know he's
upon me, obviously, that's why

344
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,819
he's living there. And, you
know, I hear you've got these

345
00:21:02,819 --> 00:21:05,519
interesting projects you're
working on. So clearly a

346
00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:08,909
podcaster. And that you live in
you live full time in the UK?

347
00:21:08,939 --> 00:21:09,299
That's,

348
00:21:10,050 --> 00:21:13,860
yeah, yeah. I citizen of the UK
since birth. So yeah, no, love

349
00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:14,220
it here.

350
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:18,180
Okay, what now? What is your
What is your background? How did

351
00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:21,000
you come into podcasting, which
I'm quite confident comes

352
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,720
through radio broadcasting. Just
give us a little background on

353
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,370
you. So we, we can get a handle
on it?

354
00:21:28,170 --> 00:21:31,710
Yeah, I mean, I was a radio
broadcast, amateur radio

355
00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:35,850
broadcaster, love, love the
medium. And podcasting really

356
00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:39,420
took a comeback. I mean, you
know, I was around when you

357
00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:43,050
first started it out, and and
didn't get into it that first

358
00:21:43,050 --> 00:21:46,260
time round really. And then
podcasting made its comeback.

359
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:49,890
And I thought, you know, I
really want to do a podcast.

360
00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:54,300
Now. Over in the UK. Here, we
didn't really have that many

361
00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:57,510
podcasters at the beginning
doing anything interesting.

362
00:21:57,510 --> 00:22:01,530
They're all sort of amateur
hour. And one of the things that

363
00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:04,740
I wanted to do was interview
entrepreneurs and people in

364
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:08,250
business who were setting up
cool startups. And so that's my

365
00:22:08,250 --> 00:22:11,340
background. That's the that was
the seed of the idea that I

366
00:22:11,340 --> 00:22:15,180
wanted to do. So I've done over
150 of those. And I love doing

367
00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:18,150
them because each one's a great
story. So that's where I

368
00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:22,050
started. And then I've mixed
basically radio and podcasting,

369
00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:24,570
because the two are an
interchangeable medium reading.

370
00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:29,610
But it is Sam's is Sam talks
technology. Is that is that

371
00:22:29,610 --> 00:22:31,980
still a live show because it
doesn't look has been has had an

372
00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:32,820
episode in a while.

373
00:22:33,420 --> 00:22:37,170
Yeah, it hasn't in a while. The
reason is, I've got 24 in the

374
00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:37,950
cam, Dave.

375
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:39,840
Wow,

376
00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:44,670
that editing is the time. Now
stupidly, I came to James and

377
00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:47,010
said, Look, do you want to do a
podcast on our podcast, which

378
00:22:47,010 --> 00:22:51,210
seemed very meta, but I thought
there was a space for it. And so

379
00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:55,020
we started pod land only back in
November. And at the same time,

380
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:57,300
just because I didn't think I
was busy enough. I decided to

381
00:22:57,300 --> 00:23:00,450
start a radio station as well.
So combining the two together.

382
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,980
Answer Santos technologies had
to take a small hiatus, but it

383
00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:05,580
will be back.

384
00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:09,630
So I've been I come from the
radio days, I was growing up in

385
00:23:09,630 --> 00:23:12,450
the Netherlands. Not sure how
old you are. But you know, in

386
00:23:12,450 --> 00:23:17,640
the 70s 80s and 70s and all the
way through most of the 80s. So

387
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,090
I very I was always very
intrigued by British

388
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:25,740
broadcasters. Of course for me
It started with Caroline, and

389
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:30,750
Mimi, go north sea Veronica, you
name it all the all the ships,

390
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:35,280
the pirate ships, then
obviously, you know, we know

391
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,220
about the BBC BBC has gone
through a number of interesting

392
00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:44,460
changes with da be direct audio
broadcast the pirates pilots of

393
00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:48,600
pirate stations in in the cities
in the in the UK and then of

394
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:54,030
course the commercialized and I
think that was also mainly I'm

395
00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:56,760
not familiar, not exactly sure
mainly di bs a lot. You know, we

396
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,000
had virgin radio come in. And
it's just been a very

397
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,330
interesting landscape. And you
still have very much like other

398
00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:06,360
countries you have this, you
know, this BBC entity, which

399
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:11,190
just kind of sits there and and,
and I don't know how important

400
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:14,010
they are anymore. But so where
are you on that spectrum where

401
00:24:14,010 --> 00:24:16,920
you kind of in that first
commercial way with Virgin radio

402
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,590
and that stuff? Where do you
come from before that?

403
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,300
I come before that I'm 54 Adams
saw were the same.

404
00:24:24,750 --> 00:24:29,160
So you know my friend, Pat
sharp, probably. Oh, yes.

405
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:29,670
Actually, I

406
00:24:29,670 --> 00:24:35,100
do a an event with Pat. Tell him
I said hey, I wilted here we do

407
00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,610
have an 80s or rock the more
events with Yes,

408
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:42,930
yeah. Talk about molot he got
rid of his Pat sharp used to

409
00:24:42,930 --> 00:24:44,910
have a massive mullet. He got
rid of that. I think

410
00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:49,170
he was the original mullet
carrier and had no pants, dude.

411
00:24:49,170 --> 00:24:50,430
All right. He's doing right now.

412
00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:52,740
Gary Davis with the moving bit
in the middle.

413
00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:56,700
Gary Davis on the radio. That's
right,

414
00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:00,480
everybody. Yeah. So that's the
kind of Yahoo's I used. Hang out

415
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,160
with. And and now you've gone
back to it, I'm just going to be

416
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,190
presumptuous and say you're
you've done a DA B radio

417
00:25:08,190 --> 00:25:08,760
station?

418
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,430
I have, yes, we were launching a
dap, we literally just launched

419
00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:18,480
a month ago. And so we're just
building out the shedule is you

420
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,360
know what it's like and getting
the presenters trained up. And

421
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,540
then we'll turn on the DAP in
about a month when we think

422
00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:27,600
we've got everyone ready. And
everything lined up.

423
00:25:27,630 --> 00:25:28,500
Now I find with Greg

424
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:28,890
before,

425
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,540
I think this is really
interesting, because I think

426
00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:34,170
we're coming full circle to it.
And I want to know, and that dap

427
00:25:34,170 --> 00:25:37,950
is is not known in the United
States, it's, it's not really

428
00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:40,770
digital. That's the digital
thing, right? Yeah, so it's a

429
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,490
digital broadcast. The
Netherlands actually has one or

430
00:25:44,490 --> 00:25:48,720
two of their government stations
only on da B, most of the car

431
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,020
manufacturers have some version
of it now built in. So that is a

432
00:25:52,020 --> 00:25:57,690
lot more prevalent. But I feel
and especially since we've been

433
00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:03,810
looking at the alternate
enclosure, in the namespace for

434
00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:08,370
a live stream, I have this
feeling that that the small and

435
00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:11,010
and I'd love to know the format
of the station. But the

436
00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:15,450
localized certainly localized DB
broadcasters will be able to

437
00:26:15,450 --> 00:26:20,400
benefit from taking their their
same stream, and just blasting

438
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,190
it out, you know, on on the
internet, whether it goes

439
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:28,140
through, you know, a podcast and
2.0 app or just to, you know,

440
00:26:28,170 --> 00:26:31,770
tune in or whatever it is, it
feels. And it's funny, because I

441
00:26:31,770 --> 00:26:34,920
was just being interviewed about
that is radio dead. I said no, I

442
00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:39,540
the local, the local community
station, which needs to be

443
00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:43,410
supported as such, I think is
really necessary. So tell me

444
00:26:43,410 --> 00:26:45,900
about the format. And if that's
what you're looking at, are you

445
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:46,770
going broader.

446
00:26:47,610 --> 00:26:50,970
Now we're going hyperlocal,
because nice. What we have in

447
00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:54,510
the UK is Yeah, you have the
BBC, so they're the massive

448
00:26:54,510 --> 00:26:57,240
footprint over the whole of the
country. Then you have the

449
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,450
commercial radio stations,
there's two big groups global

450
00:27:00,450 --> 00:27:03,360
and Bauer. And what they've
done, sadly, is they've bought

451
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,810
up all the local radio stations.
And then they've merged them

452
00:27:06,810 --> 00:27:10,770
into like a national network
radio station, so sacked all the

453
00:27:10,770 --> 00:27:14,040
local radio station presenters
and created a network commercial

454
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,630
network to challenge the BBC on
a nationwide state. So

455
00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:21,780
everybody's going well, hang on.
I want my local news about stuff

456
00:27:21,780 --> 00:27:24,990
down the road. I don't want it
about stuff 300 miles away, that

457
00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:29,430
doesn't relate to me. So
hyperlocal is where I think I

458
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:31,950
want to go and hyperlocal I
think what people want as well.

459
00:27:32,460 --> 00:27:35,130
Do you see a merging coming? Do
you? I

460
00:27:35,130 --> 00:27:38,460
mean, because you started this,
you're not crazy? Maybe you are

461
00:27:38,460 --> 00:27:41,550
but you don't start thinking Oh,
yeah, radio is gonna work the

462
00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:45,600
way it always has. what's the
what's the model that you that

463
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,970
you have for this? Is this a
bill that they'll come? We'll

464
00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:51,330
see. I mean, what what's your
what's the thought there? No,

465
00:27:51,330 --> 00:27:51,480
I'm

466
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,690
a firm believer that music is
now a commodity, unfortunately,

467
00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:57,510
because I mean, you know,
whether it's Spotify, Amazon, or

468
00:27:57,510 --> 00:28:00,660
Apple, you can get music anytime
you want. And kids on the 25

469
00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:03,810
don't listen to radio, they've
got stuff that just isn't even

470
00:28:03,810 --> 00:28:07,890
broadcast on radio. So they're
not even tuning in radio ones

471
00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:11,580
losing, you know, the big
mainstream young kids radio

472
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:16,650
station is losing hand over fist
listeners, what what people want

473
00:28:16,650 --> 00:28:19,710
is intelligent conversation. And
they want it to be about where

474
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:23,220
they live and mixed in with a
couple of nostalgic tracks. And

475
00:28:23,220 --> 00:28:27,930
that's really what we're focused
on. Now taking that you can

476
00:28:27,930 --> 00:28:31,140
podcast those as well, because
what we have learned with

477
00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:34,200
podcasting is, you know, people
aren't always ready to listen,

478
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,070
lives are on demand is where we
going. But it's a chat based

479
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:41,580
radio station with a little bit
of music, but it is designed to

480
00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:44,490
be podcast. But when you might
like this, Paul, Adam and Dave,

481
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:49,560
were using bushka down in
Australia as the platform that

482
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,090
takes the live stream from the
icecast and puts it straight

483
00:28:54,090 --> 00:28:59,250
into a podcast removes all the
music through tagging, and puts

484
00:28:59,250 --> 00:29:02,310
it straight out on to Apple,
Spotify and Google.

485
00:29:02,729 --> 00:29:07,289
Wow. Now do they chop that up? I
mean, it has. They're chopping

486
00:29:07,289 --> 00:29:09,449
it up into site into segments.
How's that work?

487
00:29:09,959 --> 00:29:13,319
No, you configure it. So what
happens is you take the straight

488
00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:17,039
icecast live stream, so they're
recording everything. But you

489
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:20,639
then tell them what the shedule
looks like of your shows. So you

490
00:29:20,639 --> 00:29:25,349
say until 12 give it a name,
then you can figure it like you

491
00:29:25,349 --> 00:29:29,099
would a podcast. So it's like an
RSS feed going straight in. And

492
00:29:29,099 --> 00:29:32,549
you're telling it that 10 to 12
is my feed. That's the name of

493
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:35,699
this podcast. And if there's
music in here, what you can do

494
00:29:35,699 --> 00:29:39,179
is replace that because it's
using dynamic content insertion.

495
00:29:39,509 --> 00:29:42,749
So it's taking out the music and
replacing that with any ad I

496
00:29:42,749 --> 00:29:46,319
want to put in or any other
information and then it pushes

497
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:50,339
it straight out as a podcast
would do on any podcast host. So

498
00:29:50,339 --> 00:29:53,429
yeah, taking all the hard work
out of running a radio station.

499
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:57,960
maddening in that process is the
fact that you probably cannot

500
00:29:57,990 --> 00:30:01,890
even get a license to leave the
music Again, because if it were

501
00:30:01,890 --> 00:30:06,750
possible I'd be doing it what
are the what does that look like

502
00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:11,010
on the performance Performing
Rights Organization? They're in

503
00:30:11,010 --> 00:30:13,950
the UK How are they How are they
looking at streaming? Is it

504
00:30:13,950 --> 00:30:18,690
similar to the US where it's or
they geo located like you can

505
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,530
pay a licensed UK only and
what's what's the what's the

506
00:30:22,830 --> 00:30:27,540
Yeah, licensing bodies just to
make the matter more complex ppl

507
00:30:27,570 --> 00:30:31,860
performing performance
licensing, right prs which off

508
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:35,730
comm run. So if you've got a dab
or an FM license you've got to

509
00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:40,800
get one from off comm to
actually broadcast live and then

510
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,950
you've got to get a ppl license
to actually play music so you

511
00:30:43,950 --> 00:30:49,110
can have a non music gab station
and that's one license but the

512
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:51,240
minute you add music to that
station you have to have that

513
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,290
the second license

514
00:30:52,350 --> 00:30:57,000
and it is calculated on on usage
or is it a flat fee? Or is it

515
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:57,840
based on revenue?

516
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,510
It's flat fee up to $5,000 and
then after that it's revenue

517
00:31:03,510 --> 00:31:06,630
base that's a percentage of
revenue and

518
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:10,230
what you have to negotiate with
them I guess independently Yeah,

519
00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:11,910
and it's maddening because they
know

520
00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:15,150
that the mafia man that's the
fucking mob. It's the mob Yeah.

521
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:19,740
But on top of that, you've also
got to pay for your transmitter

522
00:31:19,740 --> 00:31:22,320
license as well so there's the
third license and that's the

523
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:29,280
really big one as well. You pay
off comm ppl and the transmitter

524
00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:29,910
company

525
00:31:29,939 --> 00:31:32,939
Oh, and I'm sure and isn't
doesn't Defra one payment just

526
00:31:32,939 --> 00:31:40,169
for the hell of it just like
that was my first encounter like

527
00:31:40,199 --> 00:31:43,679
you got pets you got a garden
Did you fart sometimes Defra

528
00:31:43,679 --> 00:31:46,499
will come visit you What does
that department have? What does

529
00:31:46,499 --> 00:31:47,219
it stand for

530
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,730
aggregate used to be the
Department for agriculture and

531
00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:52,110
something else God knows now

532
00:31:52,139 --> 00:31:55,349
agriculture free free things and
whatever yeah

533
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:56,670
man Haitian Oh, those

534
00:31:56,670 --> 00:31:58,800
guys. Yeah.

535
00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:02,280
Every other department that
didn't have a thing to do when

536
00:32:03,930 --> 00:32:06,510
we need some a host to collect
some money and give it to death.

537
00:32:06,510 --> 00:32:07,110
Yeah, they'll

538
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:08,250
take care of for cyclists.

539
00:32:08,670 --> 00:32:12,450
Wow, that's interesting. I
really believe in this and I

540
00:32:12,450 --> 00:32:16,680
really believe that. And and the
reason why is I had this

541
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,330
experience when our electricity
went out in Austin, Texas, which

542
00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:24,120
was quite uncommon. It was
shocking for everybody. We were

543
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,720
without electricity for 50
hours, which was and we were

544
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,690
lucky, then our pipes did not
break because I got a wife who

545
00:32:30,690 --> 00:32:34,050
grew up in Chicago in Indiana,
so she knows how to drip faucets

546
00:32:34,050 --> 00:32:38,520
and took care of that. But the
worst part is now I'm a ham

547
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,190
radio operator. I'm fully
licensed, I can do all kinds of

548
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:43,470
crazy shit. That was
disappointment number one

549
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,960
because I got on the frequencies
and like all right, everybody,

550
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,640
let's organize and like

551
00:32:47,790 --> 00:32:49,230
Mic check Mic check.

552
00:32:49,260 --> 00:32:52,470
like okay, that's no good. We're
not gonna do the ham guys. Can I

553
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:57,210
tune into NPR? Our local k UT
NPR radio station. I got Terry

554
00:32:57,210 --> 00:33:01,740
Gross fresh air our guests today
and like, okay, we're dying here

555
00:33:01,740 --> 00:33:05,940
people. And the only station was
kale BJ, which has been around

556
00:33:05,940 --> 00:33:09,930
for a long time. That sounds
very, very has a lot of history.

557
00:33:10,260 --> 00:33:13,080
Man. It's like the Todd and
Jimbo in the morning show who

558
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,200
were doing a great job. You
know, they had listeners calling

559
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,680
in giving their experiences
local reports. And they're just

560
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,580
a bunch of Morning Show. You
know one of those guys? Yeah.

561
00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:26,970
And and I was like, holy crap.
It's like a town like a city

562
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:30,990
like Austin we have you know,
you could have a million person

563
00:33:30,990 --> 00:33:35,010
reach here easily. We need this.
We need this and it needs to be

564
00:33:35,010 --> 00:33:38,880
delivered in you know, it would
be great to get a digitally but

565
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,670
even just over the air, although
that is not I don't think it's

566
00:33:41,670 --> 00:33:46,380
financially feasible. So I think
that this will cut just like

567
00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:50,400
people discovered podcasting
because of the nature of cereal.

568
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,390
And we brought back the
cliffhanger in an age of binge

569
00:33:54,390 --> 00:33:57,930
watching. Like what I can't
listen, I can't get Episode

570
00:33:57,930 --> 00:34:00,630
Five. Now I need it. Now I'm
hooked. I have 1234 right after

571
00:34:00,630 --> 00:34:02,940
each other I need five I need
five I can't give you gotta wait

572
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:07,500
the whole week knows that.
That's what brought people in.

573
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:13,380
And similarly, in the US, it's
Westwood One and premiere radio

574
00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:16,800
networks and they've bought up
all all the stations and they're

575
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,040
doing the same thing except
they'll put Elvis Duran morning

576
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,250
show who's in New York, they'll
put them on in 18 markets, you

577
00:34:23,250 --> 00:34:26,460
know, it's completely not local.
It sounds like shit. Yeah.

578
00:34:27,149 --> 00:34:29,609
That's the same in the UK.
They're just taking one London

579
00:34:29,609 --> 00:34:33,929
based presenting co host and
just whacking them straight

580
00:34:33,929 --> 00:34:36,839
across the whole of the UK. And
people just going well, that

581
00:34:36,839 --> 00:34:39,899
doesn't refer to me. That
doesn't mean you know, reference

582
00:34:39,959 --> 00:34:42,419
anything I need to do. So
they're turning off to

583
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:46,410
this use. You were telling me
before the before we were

584
00:34:46,410 --> 00:34:49,110
talking before the show that
you're the market that you're

585
00:34:49,110 --> 00:34:54,600
aiming for was like just this,
this one area that had just no

586
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,850
radio footprint at all. Yeah,

587
00:34:56,849 --> 00:34:59,969
it's called bulk share, which is
where the Queen lives box.

588
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,170
You're really gonna go to
fortnum and Mason's and then

589
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:07,110
with a picnic basket, often
boats with Daksha.

590
00:35:07,890 --> 00:35:12,780
It's the Queen's English here.
Yeah, it's embark, she basically

591
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:15,900
has about 5 million people as a
footprint if you add a few of

592
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:19,920
the other local counties to it.
And there is no commercial radio

593
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,970
station there. So that was my
entrepreneurial. Scratch I

594
00:35:23,970 --> 00:35:26,910
wanted to which basically, it
was like, What There must be a

595
00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:30,420
reason like there is a need or
no, there's a need. People want

596
00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:34,740
local radio information about
events, concerts, stuff that's

597
00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:37,770
happening, but no one's
providing apart from the BBC.

598
00:35:37,830 --> 00:35:41,760
And so yeah, that's where I
started it about six months ago.

599
00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:42,690
As an idea.

600
00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:46,560
It's the same it just hearing
y'all talk, it just reminds me

601
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,830
so much of what Facebook and
Google did to the to the local

602
00:35:49,830 --> 00:35:53,340
news market. They're just, they
just decimated, they kind of

603
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:57,210
vacuumed up all news into what
you know, into these big

604
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,260
aggregation points. And so now
there's no, there's really just

605
00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:04,950
no local news. It's all just
been gutted. And so then the

606
00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:10,170
only but they're so focused in
they can't think outside of the

607
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:15,090
box at all. And so the only
solution they come up with is,

608
00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:18,480
oh, Google themselves are going
to start paying local news,

609
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:25,050
news, local newspaper people to
like, come back, like giving

610
00:36:25,050 --> 00:36:27,750
them grants and stuff like,
Well, no, that's just, that's

611
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:29,910
not solving the problem. I mean,
like, it's still just this

612
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:34,230
massive central aggregation
point for news. So and like that

613
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:39,390
whole thing, this this complete
absence of local media coverage.

614
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,200
And all you're left with really,
really, you know, NPR is

615
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,080
probably the one has resisted
that the most. Yeah, that I

616
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,300
know, they take the national
feed and that kind of thing, but

617
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:50,340
they still do have a local
presence,

618
00:36:50,430 --> 00:36:52,470
not when it mattered and not
when it matters.

619
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:53,940
Yes, Sam, can

620
00:36:53,939 --> 00:36:56,579
we can we listen to this station
online? Or is that still a

621
00:36:56,609 --> 00:36:57,689
licensing nightmare?

622
00:36:58,410 --> 00:37:01,620
Now you can listen to online,
you can go to Red River dot

623
00:37:01,650 --> 00:37:05,070
radio and your place straight
out. It's it's there in live or

624
00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:05,430
you can go

625
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:08,310
great domain name, river dot
radio. Love that.

626
00:37:09,059 --> 00:37:13,139
Thank you. That's great. And
yeah, it's on Alexa, Google,

627
00:37:13,649 --> 00:37:15,539
Facebook, all sorts of places.

628
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:18,119
Oh, excellent. Excellent. I like
it.

629
00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:21,120
I want to turn it to I want to
ask you about podcasting.

630
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:26,310
Because we, we were mean, you
shared a bunch emails about just

631
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:30,150
different stuff. And I think it
started with clubhouse. And you

632
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:34,950
got kind of in fascinated with
clubhouse for a while. Is that

633
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:39,150
waned at all? I think clubhouse
is showing itself to be the

634
00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:40,920
disaster that everybody thought
it would?

635
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:45,720
Well, I it is because it's not
evolving fast enough is not

636
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:49,620
doing what it should do. And
that I don't know why, given the

637
00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:53,580
amount of money that they've
accrued so far from VCs, but

638
00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:57,900
they've allowed the community to
start to record stuff

639
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:02,190
themselves. And they're not
providing a sort of structure

640
00:38:02,190 --> 00:38:05,700
like search directories is all
sort of organically growing in

641
00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:09,120
the background. And yes, I know,
Twitter did that. And so

642
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,600
hashtags came out of, you know,
bottom up and all sorts of other

643
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,020
features. And, you know, you can
see people now putting red dots

644
00:38:16,020 --> 00:38:19,050
on clubhouse rooms, because
that's their indication that

645
00:38:19,050 --> 00:38:21,450
they're going to record stuff
against the terms of service

646
00:38:21,450 --> 00:38:25,530
originally. But the whole thing
about clubhouse is just not

647
00:38:25,530 --> 00:38:28,950
evolving faster. But the
potential was there for doing

648
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:33,270
podcasting really well. In fact,
I think their previous

649
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:37,110
incarnation of clubhouse was a
podcasting app called think of

650
00:38:37,110 --> 00:38:40,860
something Tech Talk or something
like that. And the idea was that

651
00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:44,160
you could record you know,
person to person interviews.

652
00:38:44,610 --> 00:38:48,690
Now, I would love like wave
during this show live. And you

653
00:38:48,690 --> 00:38:51,870
could be broadcasting this out
on a, you know, I'm gonna say it

654
00:38:51,870 --> 00:38:55,230
now a clubhouse room. And you
would have an audience below it

655
00:38:55,290 --> 00:38:58,590
as you would have the three of
us on stage. And, you know, both

656
00:38:58,590 --> 00:39:01,350
of you could ask anyone for
questions at the end. But at the

657
00:39:01,350 --> 00:39:03,840
same time, you're recording that
whole thing, and then you're

658
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,540
pushing it out to your
podcasting host. And it's on

659
00:39:06,540 --> 00:39:09,120
demand at the same time for
those who can't listen live. And

660
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:12,150
I quite like the melding of
those two platform

661
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:15,840
opportunities, where you still
do your podcast recording as you

662
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,870
would anyway. But you just
happen to allow people if they

663
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:23,310
wish to to be live listeners,
that's all it is. I think they

664
00:39:23,310 --> 00:39:25,980
need to encourage us that's
interesting, successful

665
00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:33,300
I agree with you on on a number
of pieces. One. Now we stream

666
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:36,630
when we record we stream it
live, and that has been one of

667
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:41,160
the most important factors of
our, of our, of our production.

668
00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:46,140
We have a chat room, which I
call the troll room. And we have

669
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:49,620
1000s of people sitting in there
and that they can then they can

670
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:51,480
because it's the troll room that
can do whatever they want.

671
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,300
There's no moderation just yell
scream, shout usually turns it's

672
00:39:54,300 --> 00:40:01,410
pretty useful. So so that aspect
as a as a blog, cast her as a as

673
00:40:01,410 --> 00:40:06,120
a producer of programming. It's
very I think it's very exciting

674
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,690
energetic. When you when you
when you know you have an

675
00:40:09,690 --> 00:40:13,110
audience and you can see them.
So I'm not seeing people hand

676
00:40:13,110 --> 00:40:15,840
waving, I'm seeing that. In
fact, it's become second nature

677
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,290
for me. I just see out of the
corner of my eye, I see feedback

678
00:40:19,290 --> 00:40:21,930
coming in, you know, seven
seconds delayed to what's going

679
00:40:21,930 --> 00:40:26,700
on. But it's very, very good.
Our format is not to have

680
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:30,600
someone come up on stage. For me
everything I've every

681
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,100
integration, I've heard of
clubhouse in the podcast, sucks

682
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:39,960
donkey balls. It's really
horrible. It's unstructured. I'm

683
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,530
not interested in what these
people have to say. To me, I

684
00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:47,250
think clubhouse, revolutionize
the conference call. That's

685
00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:50,100
great in a corporate
environment. Because you can

686
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:53,700
actually give people permission,
you can let them on stage, you

687
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:58,950
can shut them up. It's, I want
to hear the hosts, you know,

688
00:40:59,010 --> 00:41:02,910
there's maybe one show, which I
think is Wait, wait, don't tell

689
00:41:02,910 --> 00:41:05,880
me which NPR does, which is in
front of a live studio audience.

690
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,850
But you hear it's more of the
reaction of the audience. You're

691
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:12,030
not getting that with a
clubhouse. And quite frankly,

692
00:41:12,180 --> 00:41:15,630
the only interesting podcast
stuff I see or the only podcast

693
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:19,800
stuff I see this successful are
podcast consultants and experts

694
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:23,370
and people shilling and
shelling. And really, it's great

695
00:41:23,370 --> 00:41:26,760
for conferences, which is why
it's a great conference call

696
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,380
app. If you want I think the
future of conferences, instead

697
00:41:31,380 --> 00:41:35,970
of going somewhere may very well
be clubhouse or a hybrid model.

698
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:41,010
But otherwise, for the I have
yet to hear a podcast, that

699
00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:44,520
integrated clubhouse that I that
was worth listening to, I'd be

700
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,250
happy to be proven wrong or
point me to something that that

701
00:41:47,250 --> 00:41:48,750
works, but I haven't seen it
yet.

702
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,590
Well, I did do an experiment. So
I took my road, podcast and

703
00:41:52,590 --> 00:41:58,830
mixing test connect it to my
phone through TT artists TT RS

704
00:41:58,860 --> 00:42:03,990
cable. So it was a good quality
cable, I had my pod mic. And of

705
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:06,390
course, that meant that
clubhouse couldn't detect that I

706
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:09,090
was actually recording it
because it was an off my phone

707
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:14,160
recording. But I got the same
high quality that I wanted from

708
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,090
my pod mic. And obviously with
my mixing desk. So that was

709
00:42:18,090 --> 00:42:20,520
quite interesting. I could get a
quality because obviously I

710
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,060
don't want to just record
straight from my iPhone and push

711
00:42:24,060 --> 00:42:27,720
that was a podcast. So it proves
it's all possible. I think

712
00:42:27,810 --> 00:42:31,590
what's happened right now is
clubhouse hasn't evolved to the

713
00:42:31,590 --> 00:42:36,330
spaces, of course has come about
right now. And that in itself, I

714
00:42:36,330 --> 00:42:38,910
think it's going to kill
clubhouse because they haven't

715
00:42:38,910 --> 00:42:42,420
got the social graph back
channel that Twitter has. And I

716
00:42:42,420 --> 00:42:45,840
don't think clubhouse can
develop a Twitter clone, quick

717
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,630
enough to compete. We'll see
that that's,

718
00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:51,060
that brings up the point that
that bothers me about the whole

719
00:42:51,060 --> 00:42:54,780
thing, which I think what we're
seeing now, if podcasting if

720
00:42:54,780 --> 00:42:59,670
podcasting 2.0 if it has proven
anything, it's that

721
00:42:59,670 --> 00:43:04,470
decentralization is a mindset
that is creeping more into the

722
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:08,130
mainstream, they just just
people don't eat. But the only

723
00:43:08,130 --> 00:43:10,800
thing is people just don't
understand what to call it. So

724
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:16,170
like the theory that the feeling
of a need to decentralize? Is

725
00:43:16,170 --> 00:43:19,290
there even though even if they
don't have the language to

726
00:43:19,290 --> 00:43:24,240
describe what, what that felt
need is and so like I was,

727
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,730
there's this article from BBC
says why popular YouTubers are

728
00:43:29,730 --> 00:43:33,060
building their own sites. And
there's a couple of things in

729
00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:37,230
here like what one of them says,
discusses, Google has been very,

730
00:43:37,230 --> 00:43:41,310
very good to me. But it's a lot
of eggs in one basket. He's not

731
00:43:41,310 --> 00:43:46,350
the only youtuber looking for
alternatives. There's these big

732
00:43:46,350 --> 00:43:52,080
YouTubers. As they get large
enough, they real they look

733
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:57,030
around and realize that, hey,
Google controls, not just the

734
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,910
the audience and the platform
and the technology, but they

735
00:43:59,910 --> 00:44:03,570
control the purse strings. They
control everything about my

736
00:44:03,570 --> 00:44:08,820
business. And it's such an odd
thing that that's so 2020 or

737
00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:13,920
2021, to look around and realize
that you just basically built

738
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,310
your entire business on somebody
else's business. Well,

739
00:44:17,309 --> 00:44:20,099
we've seen this so many times
before. I mean, look, when

740
00:44:20,099 --> 00:44:24,119
Twitter had a API, and all these
people started building apps on

741
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:27,629
the Twitter, and Twitter then
when actually we don't want you

742
00:44:27,629 --> 00:44:30,869
to have an API anymore. So
thanks a lot. Combine did the

743
00:44:30,869 --> 00:44:31,679
same. So

744
00:44:31,949 --> 00:44:34,139
that's because they want Yeah,
they wanted to control the

745
00:44:34,139 --> 00:44:37,229
experience. And that's, that's
what's so beautiful about

746
00:44:37,229 --> 00:44:41,909
podcast index is here's it.
Here's an API. All you guys who

747
00:44:41,909 --> 00:44:46,949
got boned by Twitter, or know
the experience go at it. And we

748
00:44:46,949 --> 00:44:53,009
and we've just seen phenomenal
interpretations of podcast

749
00:44:53,009 --> 00:44:56,969
listening experience is
completely different from your

750
00:44:56,969 --> 00:45:01,289
traditional app. is I think
that's Beautiful. And you're so

751
00:45:01,289 --> 00:45:04,439
right. That's where Twitter made
the mistake. They had the uptake

752
00:45:04,439 --> 00:45:07,559
from the developers, you know,
who are the the infected

753
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:12,779
leprechaun leprosy class of
Silicon Valley? Who hit him up

754
00:45:12,779 --> 00:45:14,399
shit, they don't care about him.

755
00:45:14,849 --> 00:45:19,949
The the the social graph having
access to the social graph and

756
00:45:19,949 --> 00:45:24,779
having those algorithms. There's
there is a benefit. there

757
00:45:24,779 --> 00:45:28,769
clearly there is. But I'm sure
I'm beginning to wonder what the

758
00:45:28,769 --> 00:45:34,169
benefit actually is. Because you
know, the bit and I know what

759
00:45:34,169 --> 00:45:36,959
you're saying, because they
benefit is from you can build

760
00:45:36,959 --> 00:45:39,389
recommendation now goes, all
these kind of things. But I

761
00:45:39,389 --> 00:45:44,309
think, like, what we've seen
with the podcast index is that

762
00:45:44,939 --> 00:45:50,879
the, the algo, really nice to
live down further downstream.

763
00:45:51,179 --> 00:45:53,819
It's like, the higher up the
algo. And the social graph

764
00:45:53,819 --> 00:46:01,649
exists, the more you it's not a
matter of messing up the algo

765
00:46:01,649 --> 00:46:05,549
and pushing people down a rabbit
hole or something like that. The

766
00:46:05,609 --> 00:46:11,369
problem is that you can't stop
doing that. You can't find the

767
00:46:11,369 --> 00:46:15,839
right algo because right algo
doesn't exist for that thing not

768
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:20,999
to happen. Because that's math
is not intelligent. And the

769
00:46:21,029 --> 00:46:21,959
option stop

770
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:22,800
stop, Dave.

771
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,900
It's so hot when you talk math.

772
00:46:30,809 --> 00:46:34,919
Talk man to me. Yeah, baby, the
only podcast that gets your

773
00:46:34,919 --> 00:46:37,259
heart when you're talking about
math,

774
00:46:37,350 --> 00:46:40,410
Dave, Jennifer behind my back. I
know.

775
00:46:40,829 --> 00:46:42,299
She slipped on him, baby.

776
00:46:45,420 --> 00:46:46,680
Okay, I'm completely

777
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:49,649
Sorry, I didn't mean to throw
you off. But I was waiting for

778
00:46:49,649 --> 00:46:52,619
the opportunity. When the word
math comes. I'm hitting this.

779
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:57,030
I guess what I'm trying to say
is that when you go, if you push

780
00:46:57,030 --> 00:47:00,600
the algorithms down to the
furthest to the edge, if you

781
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:06,420
push them to the edge, then you,
you empower. You keep the

782
00:47:06,420 --> 00:47:10,470
centralization and you empower
the apps to have control over

783
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:14,850
the content for their hyper
local set of users. Hmm, yeah.

784
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:18,690
I, I agree. But I think there's
two things I want to throw into

785
00:47:18,690 --> 00:47:22,950
the conversation. One is, I
firmly believe Apple is going to

786
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:25,230
turn off the directory. Now.

787
00:47:25,289 --> 00:47:27,899
Whoa, whoa, whoa, no, I

788
00:47:27,899 --> 00:47:30,539
do I want 100% agree with you

789
00:47:30,540 --> 00:47:33,420
that but that, by the way, would
be a huge endorsement for us.

790
00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:35,580
And I would appreciate it.
Absolutely. No, I

791
00:47:35,580 --> 00:47:38,580
think that's where we're going.
And I think you are going to be

792
00:47:38,910 --> 00:47:43,080
seen as prescient by delivering
the index before it had his need

793
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,170
fully. I think his heart is got
any, but I think he's gonna have

794
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,170
a real need for all of the app
makers. The reason why I said

795
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,100
it's the same as Twitter and
Facebook. Soon as Apple turns on

796
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:56,760
the subscriptions, they are not
going to want to allow the

797
00:47:57,270 --> 00:48:01,530
directory of podcast to go to
other places where a they could

798
00:48:01,530 --> 00:48:04,470
be either listened to you for
phrase subscription model

799
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:08,340
doesn't work. Right. Right. He
they don't want to send the

800
00:48:08,340 --> 00:48:11,820
money to someone else to make
money. So soon as they turn on

801
00:48:11,820 --> 00:48:15,660
subscriptions, I fundamentally
reckon they're gonna say, you've

802
00:48:15,660 --> 00:48:19,110
had your free lunch for 10
years. But hey, guys, time to

803
00:48:19,110 --> 00:48:24,990
turn off the directory. Or guess
what you pay your $99 developer

804
00:48:24,990 --> 00:48:28,530
cost to be accessing the
directory, but I don't think it

805
00:48:28,530 --> 00:48:31,140
is going to be a free directory
anymore. And I think that's when

806
00:48:31,290 --> 00:48:33,270
people are gonna look at you
guys and say, well hang on a

807
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:36,990
minute, left field, 2 million
indexed. podcasts. I'm coming to

808
00:48:36,990 --> 00:48:39,450
you. That's what I think is
going. Interesting. I

809
00:48:39,450 --> 00:48:42,960
think you're exactly right. Six
months ago, I would have it was

810
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,420
in the back of my mind. And I
kept saying, Well, I don't think

811
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:48,960
there, that's not going to
happen. But over the something

812
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,660
has changed my mind over the
last really the last maybe

813
00:48:51,660 --> 00:48:57,180
month. And I don't know what it
is. But I feel like that's, I

814
00:48:57,180 --> 00:48:59,790
feel like that's in the cards
too. And I'm like you I don't

815
00:48:59,790 --> 00:49:02,850
know what it'll look like. But I
think there will be some sort of

816
00:49:02,850 --> 00:49:06,360
lag time. And all of a sudden
that I wonder what it was, I

817
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,570
know exactly what changed my
mind on it. We had a guy pop

818
00:49:09,570 --> 00:49:13,830
into the mastodon and I don't
remember who he was. But he came

819
00:49:13,830 --> 00:49:19,290
into there and said that he was
looking for an alternative to

820
00:49:19,290 --> 00:49:24,690
get episode level data because
Apple had Britain that API went

821
00:49:24,690 --> 00:49:30,810
down and it never came back up.
So initially, people thought

822
00:49:30,810 --> 00:49:33,450
that it was just down and
evidently they just turned it

823
00:49:33,450 --> 00:49:37,200
off. And so he was like
scrambling trying to figure out

824
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,660
an alternative for that. And and
that told me I bet you bet you

825
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:44,700
they're gonna flip the switch on
that thing before long.

826
00:49:45,449 --> 00:49:49,679
It's not gonna be long i i
really predicted WWDC, you're

827
00:49:49,679 --> 00:49:54,149
going to hear some stuff. Maybe
at the edges of WWDC, but of the

828
00:49:54,149 --> 00:49:56,399
new subscription model, they're
going to have to announce it

829
00:49:56,399 --> 00:49:57,539
sometime public wasn't

830
00:49:57,540 --> 00:50:05,640
the me the The beta of the
podcast app was kind of the

831
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:11,580
giveaway, zero innovation. Guess
I mean that that just to me,

832
00:50:11,580 --> 00:50:14,940
it's like, okay, so you guys got
something coming. And it's got

833
00:50:14,940 --> 00:50:17,670
to be more than this. That's not
an apple announcement. Yeah.

834
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:20,580
Okay. Follow instead of
subscribe. Alright.

835
00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:26,340
Well, I think I think the the
index, people need to understand

836
00:50:26,340 --> 00:50:32,640
that the in the apple lookup API
only exists for one. It exists

837
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,930
as an accident. It basically
exists because all of the apple

838
00:50:36,930 --> 00:50:41,640
podcast, the apple podcast app
on your phone, aggregates feeds

839
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,240
directly, it doesn't call back
to the mothership. It only calls

840
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:49,140
back to the mothership to find
to get the information, right.

841
00:50:49,170 --> 00:50:53,400
It doesn't actually do the apple
podcast app is doing a lot of

842
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:59,700
work. Is aggregating feeds. Yes.
And so if so, by by because of

843
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:04,170
that, they needed an open an
open way to for the app to call

844
00:51:04,170 --> 00:51:09,600
back right to call home, that
never existed as a as a Kurd as

845
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,310
a like, benevolence to

846
00:51:11,579 --> 00:51:14,819
to have it was really just for
their app to work, because you

847
00:51:14,819 --> 00:51:17,669
can't have everyone
authenticating. Oh, interesting.

848
00:51:18,210 --> 00:51:20,130
Yeah, they can pull it off
anyway.

849
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,520
Yeah, but they weren't
supporting web sub either. So

850
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,730
now I'm because I don't do that.
They have to have a call out.

851
00:51:26,789 --> 00:51:30,179
Well, I like your
prognostication. I, I would say

852
00:51:30,179 --> 00:51:34,019
it's, it would be a huge
compliment to the work that's

853
00:51:34,019 --> 00:51:42,419
done. I spoke to James Boggs.
When was that? Dave? October?

854
00:51:42,629 --> 00:51:43,349
last year?

855
00:51:44,039 --> 00:51:45,239
December, I think, December.

856
00:51:45,269 --> 00:51:50,159
Yeah. And went through it all.
And now he was very, it was very

857
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:52,949
clear to me that they were going
to do a podcast one or

858
00:51:52,949 --> 00:51:55,499
something, or they're going to
do some kind of Spotify type

859
00:51:55,499 --> 00:51:58,229
play. To which he said, What do
you think about that? I said, I

860
00:51:58,229 --> 00:52:02,309
think it's fucking stupid. which
you probably never told me

861
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:06,059
anything about it ever again.
But I said, no, no. Why would

862
00:52:06,059 --> 00:52:08,609
you do that? And he was very
interested in the value for

863
00:52:08,609 --> 00:52:11,249
value model. He said, Can we do
that with Apple Pay said no, the

864
00:52:11,249 --> 00:52:14,579
whole point is you can't it's no
way because of the fee

865
00:52:14,579 --> 00:52:18,029
structure. And, and I don't
think it's in your corporate DNA

866
00:52:18,029 --> 00:52:21,899
to try and break that open and
which I don't blame you for. And

867
00:52:22,499 --> 00:52:27,029
I hope that I gave him enough
that he internally that they

868
00:52:27,029 --> 00:52:29,189
said, You know what, we'll keep
our eye on this. And now you

869
00:52:29,189 --> 00:52:31,679
know what, those guys seem
pretty solid, we'll turn our

870
00:52:31,679 --> 00:52:36,839
shit off podcasting is going to
be okay. Because overnight, that

871
00:52:36,839 --> 00:52:41,249
would that would be, you know,
you talk about your divergent

872
00:52:41,249 --> 00:52:44,459
isation. I mean, that would PAMA
cherry so big. We just been

873
00:52:44,459 --> 00:52:48,419
cherry juice would be flowing
everywhere. Because then then

874
00:52:48,449 --> 00:52:51,809
all of that, and then we can
really drive it. You know,

875
00:52:51,809 --> 00:52:54,719
people in the hosting companies
are still going well, Apple

876
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,769
doesn't support any of this yet.
So we'll wait until they support

877
00:52:58,769 --> 00:53:01,289
it. And I'm doing a shitty
voice. But come on. That's

878
00:53:01,289 --> 00:53:03,989
what's held us back for over a
decade. So

879
00:53:04,110 --> 00:53:06,870
yeah, but the minute they turn
that off, and they will I mean,

880
00:53:07,140 --> 00:53:10,650
look, Spotify is adding
extensions to its API that are

881
00:53:10,650 --> 00:53:15,030
not going out community that not
are not being used by third

882
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:17,160
parties. They they're putting
stuff in place that is only

883
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,820
going to benefit one company
that I was Netscape Product

884
00:53:20,820 --> 00:53:22,830
Marketing Manager for ages.
Right. But

885
00:53:24,030 --> 00:53:25,740
I didn't know that. Cool.

886
00:53:25,829 --> 00:53:29,609
Yeah. So I was in the podcast, I
sorry, the in the browser wars.

887
00:53:29,999 --> 00:53:33,119
Look, we went through the, you
know, ActiveX added by

888
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:34,049
Microsoft. And then

889
00:53:34,050 --> 00:53:35,010
yeah,

890
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,080
if you remember, yeah, of
course, you know, and I like an

891
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,810
app when Spotify right now to
the you know, the Microsoft

892
00:53:42,810 --> 00:53:45,420
ActiveX stuff. They're, they're
adding stuff that's only

893
00:53:45,420 --> 00:53:49,200
benefiting their platform, not
the community. And I think what

894
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,020
they'll find is eventually, you
know, yeah, they'll get the

895
00:53:52,020 --> 00:53:55,770
short term benefit bonus, but
long term, we all know open

896
00:53:55,770 --> 00:53:58,740
succeeds over closed every time.
So let's

897
00:53:58,739 --> 00:54:01,739
say I got a I got a short story
for you, Sam. Because you know,

898
00:54:01,739 --> 00:54:03,599
your Netscape background, we
there at the beginning of the

899
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:12,269
company? I was Yeah. So in 1992,
I want to say two or three. I

900
00:54:12,269 --> 00:54:16,199
was running a gopher server on
mtv.com because there was no

901
00:54:16,199 --> 00:54:23,039
web. And I got an email from
this kid in the university

902
00:54:23,129 --> 00:54:27,599
sharpay, Champaign Urbana,
Urbana, Illinois. And he said, I

903
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,119
see what you're doing with
mtv.com try this shit out.

904
00:54:30,149 --> 00:54:32,969
You'll like it. It wasn't from
Marc Andreessen. It was the

905
00:54:32,969 --> 00:54:37,439
httpd I think version 1.2 or
something. And I'd never seen

906
00:54:37,439 --> 00:54:41,699
the mosaic browser and and from
that, and I quit I quit I left

907
00:54:41,699 --> 00:54:45,149
the career then maybe six months
later. I was like, holy shit,

908
00:54:45,149 --> 00:54:47,699
look what's going on. So yeah,
that was my that was the

909
00:54:47,699 --> 00:54:51,929
Andreessen Mark was in his dorm
room and and I was on the studio

910
00:54:51,929 --> 00:54:57,329
floor. And that was one of the
first websites with the with the

911
00:54:57,329 --> 00:54:59,579
HCP, demon and mosaic

912
00:55:00,989 --> 00:55:02,159
Yeah, those are the good days.

913
00:55:03,029 --> 00:55:05,669
We're living Good day, Sam,
you're right in the middle of

914
00:55:05,669 --> 00:55:10,169
it, man. Now you're a journalist
by profession, or just always

915
00:55:10,169 --> 00:55:13,649
radio. I mean, what, what, what,
what pays the rent for you these

916
00:55:13,649 --> 00:55:16,919
days? I setting up a radio
station is expensive and takes a

917
00:55:16,919 --> 00:55:17,279
while.

918
00:55:17,969 --> 00:55:20,789
He actually doesn't. And that's
a takes a while, but it actually

919
00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:24,059
isn't expensive these days. I
think the running cost for the

920
00:55:24,059 --> 00:55:28,709
whole radio station, if I didn't
do da B would be only 500 pounds

921
00:55:28,709 --> 00:55:33,299
a year because Okay, you can do
you can do cloud based icecast

922
00:55:33,299 --> 00:55:37,589
service now. Yeah. Yeah, the
initial cost of hardware, there

923
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:40,919
is a, you know, 15 20,000 pound
cost of hardware to get stuff

924
00:55:40,919 --> 00:55:46,199
going. But ongoing maintenance,
aside from licenses, and da B is

925
00:55:46,229 --> 00:55:48,749
not very high. But and that's
why I think is can be

926
00:55:48,749 --> 00:55:52,379
democratized. You know, it's,
it's getting to that point where

927
00:55:52,379 --> 00:55:56,819
the technology now is much
simpler than it used to be. I

928
00:55:56,819 --> 00:56:00,689
was saying to Dave, earlier, you
know, I've got two road caster

929
00:56:00,689 --> 00:56:06,089
Pro. Pros, the mixer desks,
yeah, a couple of high end

930
00:56:06,089 --> 00:56:11,459
laptops. And we use Spotify pro
as our library and doesn't

931
00:56:11,459 --> 00:56:15,509
matter. Yes, we're not even
having to buy in tracks or

932
00:56:15,509 --> 00:56:19,889
anything. We've got 4,000,005
minutes, I guess, are gone.

933
00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:22,410
I know. I was gonna ask you a
couple questions. Because I like

934
00:56:22,410 --> 00:56:26,340
what I'm hearing one. Are you
using a playout? system? And if

935
00:56:26,340 --> 00:56:29,250
so, what are we just using?
icecast? No, Sam, or what are

936
00:56:29,250 --> 00:56:30,930
you using for that? No,

937
00:56:30,929 --> 00:56:34,829
we're just literally we're using
the road caster mixer. And

938
00:56:34,829 --> 00:56:37,739
Spotify we are after? No
scheduling.

939
00:56:38,730 --> 00:56:42,300
No, because we're not we've
decided not to do advertising.

940
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:46,290
We've got sponsors. So we have
show sponsors. Literally we

941
00:56:46,290 --> 00:56:49,110
don't, we don't have
advertising, we chose not to

942
00:56:49,830 --> 00:56:54,030
chasing 1000, small micro
payments of advertising and then

943
00:56:54,030 --> 00:56:57,510
having to fit them into a show
and break up show. Right? Right

944
00:56:57,510 --> 00:57:01,050
seems stupid. So we've got, for
example, the wine show that we

945
00:57:01,050 --> 00:57:05,070
do, we've got a local champagne
producer or heroine hope and

946
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:08,370
they've sponsored by for the
whole year. So we get 20,000.

947
00:57:08,370 --> 00:57:13,530
from them. Thank you very much.
And that does one show. And so

948
00:57:13,590 --> 00:57:16,080
literally, we don't need to get
our sizes.

949
00:57:16,110 --> 00:57:19,350
So but I guess what I'm saying
is it's a continuous stream that

950
00:57:19,380 --> 00:57:22,680
you have a continuous
programming in the middle of the

951
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:24,480
night who switches from the next

952
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:27,810
paragraph. Sorry. Yeah. Now we
do have an automation server

953
00:57:28,290 --> 00:57:29,010
background, what

954
00:57:29,010 --> 00:57:31,080
do you use for that? What are
you using for that?

955
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,980
We're using a company called
radio King out of France radio.

956
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,690
Okay. And there's a good one as
well in Manchester call radio.co

957
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:43,140
that the two good ones that you
could use? And literally, we've

958
00:57:43,140 --> 00:57:46,200
got a library of music up there.
So they just say let's say,

959
00:57:47,070 --> 00:57:51,240
yeah, it falls over the if the
signal falls over and goes

960
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,090
straight back to automation. And
when we're not doing seven to

961
00:57:54,090 --> 00:57:56,430
seven, which is all we're
broadcasting now. We put it

962
00:57:56,430 --> 00:57:58,080
straight back towards the guy
that really got

963
00:57:58,079 --> 00:58:00,329
it got it. Okay, then I have
another question about the road

964
00:58:00,329 --> 00:58:03,749
caster since we're a podcast
show. Now I think I basically

965
00:58:03,749 --> 00:58:06,089
developed the whole concept for
the road caster was called

966
00:58:06,089 --> 00:58:10,349
podcaster. Pro. It was a it was
crowdfunded. And it failed

967
00:58:10,349 --> 00:58:15,659
spectacularly because I couldn't
I misjudged the engineering. But

968
00:58:15,989 --> 00:58:19,469
when I saw the road caster,
which I think they've done it

969
00:58:19,469 --> 00:58:22,379
better than I could have done
it, except for one thing. And I

970
00:58:22,379 --> 00:58:25,499
want to understand if I'm,
because it's very hard to add,

971
00:58:25,499 --> 00:58:30,539
I've never bought one. I've
never been offered one. And the

972
00:58:30,539 --> 00:58:32,699
reason I haven't gotten one is
because I believe that they

973
00:58:32,699 --> 00:58:38,699
still do not have a noise gate
on every single channel on every

974
00:58:38,699 --> 00:58:42,479
channel, including his three
channel trs s and the USB

975
00:58:44,010 --> 00:58:47,160
note on the USB, but they do
have it on every other channels.

976
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:52,409
I think, is it? Is it on the TRS
s? In the 2.1 upload?

977
00:58:52,410 --> 00:58:56,670
Yeah. Ah, okay, because my
problem has always been, I need

978
00:58:56,670 --> 00:59:01,110
to be able to noise gate like
clean feeds. So I would have to

979
00:59:01,110 --> 00:59:06,090
run clean feed on a different
machine to connect it to the TRS

980
00:59:06,090 --> 00:59:10,320
s connector, because I can't do
it from USB because USB doesn't

981
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:11,430
doesn't have a noise gate.

982
00:59:11,789 --> 00:59:12,839
It doesn't have a nice guy,

983
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:17,370
if they would fix that if they
could fix that one thing. I

984
00:59:17,370 --> 00:59:20,190
would be the biggest proponent
of this box, because I would use

985
00:59:20,190 --> 00:59:20,370
it

986
00:59:21,150 --> 00:59:25,500
Yeah, I mean, I have to say as a
box I mean, because the the

987
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:28,770
previous version would only
allow you to do noise gate on

988
00:59:28,770 --> 00:59:31,770
the whole system, right and now
you can do individual settings

989
00:59:31,770 --> 00:59:33,480
to each of the four mics that
you've

990
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,640
got here and they go someone in
there who understands it.

991
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,570
Finally there was a music
company doing doing a podcast

992
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,720
broadcast mixer and they had no
clue they got the mix minus

993
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,140
right, but it's just that one
thing like give me that noise

994
00:59:46,140 --> 00:59:47,610
gate on every channel.

995
00:59:48,329 --> 00:59:51,299
Don't Don't do it. Yeah, on the
USB. I'm sorry to say

996
00:59:51,420 --> 00:59:54,360
what? Yeah, no, it's too bad
now. Okay, looks I know, so I'll

997
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,610
still have to wait. Damn it. 60
bucks, man. It's a 60 ask bye.

998
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,200
2.1 upgrade, it looks really
good. I couldn't use that I

999
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,200
could replace a lot of my stuff
but not without the noise gate

1000
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:08,100
on the USB.

1001
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:10,710
Fashion maybe Yeah,

1002
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:14,430
we need hot USB talk now that's
what we need. So let's talk

1003
01:00:14,430 --> 01:00:18,210
about podcasting. 2.0. And, you
know, pod man was listed. I was

1004
01:00:18,210 --> 01:00:21,990
streaming value to it weeks ago,
I think it might have been maybe

1005
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:25,380
James set it up in a Sphinx
tribe or something has Yeah, cuz

1006
01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:28,110
it was, I know it was sending
SATs. Maybe James was just

1007
01:00:28,110 --> 01:00:32,760
stealing Oh, even though it
doesn't exist bitcoins not real.

1008
01:00:35,309 --> 01:00:40,019
I wanted to ask you both a
question, because I've been

1009
01:00:40,019 --> 01:00:42,569
following the value tag and the
value for value very closely.

1010
01:00:42,569 --> 01:00:45,479
And I love it. Because for many,
many years, I've been saying if

1011
01:00:45,479 --> 01:00:48,419
there was a micro payment system
on the internet, and I know,

1012
01:00:48,989 --> 01:00:51,719
when you talk to Tim berners
Lee, he said that was one of his

1013
01:00:51,719 --> 01:00:54,179
But no, it was Marc Andreessen
in his book said it was one of

1014
01:00:54,179 --> 01:00:57,449
his biggest mistakes was not to
invent a micro payment system in

1015
01:00:57,449 --> 01:01:02,849
the browser. But where are you
guys positioned on NF T's? What

1016
01:01:02,849 --> 01:01:08,279
is your thoughts of using the NF
T's on an Ethereum Bitcoin

1017
01:01:08,279 --> 01:01:12,119
platform as opposed to the way
that you're using it today with

1018
01:01:12,119 --> 01:01:13,739
satoshis on the Bitcoin
platform?

1019
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:21,510
I think that will with a theory,
I think aetherium is based on

1020
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:25,650
what I understand about
aetherium which is which is very

1021
01:01:25,650 --> 01:01:32,970
little, but from what I have
seen, it is 10 technologically

1022
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,130
sketchy in a lot of areas.

1023
01:01:35,969 --> 01:01:39,719
Dave at podcast index.org Yeah,
thanks,

1024
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,280
Ed Sheeran tag ID and the
subject aetherium. So I'll know

1025
01:01:44,310 --> 01:01:50,280
how to handle that. I've heard
I've heard endless debates

1026
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:55,590
between aetherium and Bitcoin
people. And the Ethereum guys

1027
01:01:55,890 --> 01:02:01,830
seem to have they seem to have
consistent security issues.

1028
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,320
People are getting people get
hacked on the Ethereum

1029
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:10,890
blockchain a lot. And it makes
me nervous that I can't read, I

1030
01:02:10,890 --> 01:02:13,980
can't really, I don't know
anything about the low level of

1031
01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:18,750
aetherium in order to speak to
it. But that's just in theory in

1032
01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:22,620
general makes me nervous about
it doesn't really give you the

1033
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,370
extra capacity, even though
layer two like lightning can

1034
01:02:26,370 --> 01:02:31,080
work over multiple blockchains.
The, the the Ethereum blockchain

1035
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,660
to me just makes it makes me a
little nervous.

1036
01:02:34,170 --> 01:02:37,620
Yeah, I'm not so much worried
about whether it's Bitcoin or

1037
01:02:37,620 --> 01:02:40,980
aetherium. It's the non fungible
tokenization, for value for

1038
01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:45,120
value. Okay. One of the things
I'm really interested in is the

1039
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,450
way that NF T's have been used.
So the way I likened it to

1040
01:02:48,450 --> 01:02:51,060
somebody the other day was very
simple if you've got a public

1041
01:02:51,060 --> 01:02:55,050
limited company, and they issue
shares, those shares, if you

1042
01:02:55,050 --> 01:02:59,700
think of them as NF T's can be
accruing of value up or down,

1043
01:02:59,700 --> 01:03:03,780
like shares on a stock exchange,
and you can trade them. So I

1044
01:03:03,780 --> 01:03:07,410
could issue from Portland, or
you could issue from the podcast

1045
01:03:07,410 --> 01:03:12,570
index and the NFT. Community
token that has value and that

1046
01:03:12,570 --> 01:03:15,720
value for me was really
interesting. Because, yes, it

1047
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,570
could be for value for value for
how much so you could take that

1048
01:03:18,570 --> 01:03:23,640
payment. But also, it's it's
very heavily linked to the

1049
01:03:23,940 --> 01:03:26,730
things I'm really interested in,
like behavioral marketing and

1050
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,750
attention. So when you look for
value for value, to me, that is

1051
01:03:30,750 --> 01:03:33,390
really attention. How much of
that podcast have I pay

1052
01:03:33,390 --> 01:03:36,900
attention to? And therefore, how
much am I going to reward the

1053
01:03:36,900 --> 01:03:40,290
person for that. And then the
second part, though, is as a

1054
01:03:40,290 --> 01:03:44,460
community token, you can make
those tradable between the

1055
01:03:44,460 --> 01:03:48,270
community. So you might say if
you listen to five podcasts,

1056
01:03:48,300 --> 01:03:50,910
we'll give you a token, but that
token has a value that is

1057
01:03:50,910 --> 01:03:55,050
tradable outside of Adam and
Dave's requirement, I could

1058
01:03:55,050 --> 01:03:58,440
trade it with other members of
the community. So I'm just

1059
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,680
curious. If you ever look at NF
T, that's

1060
01:04:02,070 --> 01:04:10,110
Yes, I'm very opinionated.
Surprise. If so, it's the NF T's

1061
01:04:10,110 --> 01:04:15,660
and value for value streaming.
Payments are two solutions to

1062
01:04:15,660 --> 01:04:21,240
the different versions of a
problem. And the problem is fair

1063
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,130
pricing of creative work. And
actually, I'm going to play this

1064
01:04:26,130 --> 01:04:31,140
one minute clip. We played it
recently. This is Max Kaiser

1065
01:04:31,140 --> 01:04:35,220
talking about the business model
of Silicon Valley towards

1066
01:04:35,220 --> 01:04:36,030
creators.

1067
01:04:37,019 --> 01:04:41,099
Yeah, it's a Adam Curry. The
prop father is really

1068
01:04:41,489 --> 01:04:44,879
relaunched. He's the re report
Father, you know he's he's

1069
01:04:44,879 --> 01:04:47,969
relaunching podcasting to point
out this is the newest thing

1070
01:04:47,969 --> 01:04:52,769
he's totally got some fantastic
product up there and running and

1071
01:04:52,799 --> 01:04:56,189
your streaming sets, you know,
then I can see on my my Twitter

1072
01:04:56,189 --> 01:04:59,069
feed that the podcasters and
everybody are taking this

1073
01:04:59,069 --> 01:05:04,139
immediately. It's got attraction
instantaneously. And, you know,

1074
01:05:04,169 --> 01:05:09,119
lasers can stream sets to to the
creators and start off at the de

1075
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:12,299
minimis level of, I think five
sets an hour or something like

1076
01:05:12,299 --> 01:05:16,709
that. And you can you pick and
choose. And this is going to

1077
01:05:17,699 --> 01:05:22,889
really challenge the current
market, the current status of

1078
01:05:22,889 --> 01:05:27,569
social media is everyone gives
all the people in Silicon Valley

1079
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:30,479
all of their talent for free,
and they get nothing.

1080
01:05:32,010 --> 01:05:36,360
So that's the model. Now, this
as much as I love Steve Jobs,

1081
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,300
what he did for podcasting, he
did something horrible to the

1082
01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:43,980
music business, and subsequently
to the developer, business,

1083
01:05:44,250 --> 01:05:48,270
computer programming developer
business, he priced everything

1084
01:05:48,270 --> 01:05:53,730
at 99 cents to track. For me, I
want to hold your hand by The

1085
01:05:53,730 --> 01:05:57,600
Beatles is one of the best love
songs ever written. And I will

1086
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,290
pay $99 for it every time. I
mean, that's how much I love it,

1087
01:06:01,350 --> 01:06:04,800
I have no opportunity to do
that. So there's a false market,

1088
01:06:04,830 --> 01:06:08,580
there was no market a false
pricing mechanism, no pricing

1089
01:06:08,580 --> 01:06:12,360
discovery as to what that is
really worth and the same

1090
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:17,640
carried over to apps, where they
put the same damn 99 cent

1091
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,610
business modeling of which by
the way, they take 30%. And

1092
01:06:20,610 --> 01:06:22,950
there's all kinds of other shit
that happens, certainly on the

1093
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:27,180
music side. So it's actually
much less when when when it

1094
01:06:27,180 --> 01:06:34,740
really breaks down. And NF T's
are, to me nothing more than a

1095
01:06:34,740 --> 01:06:40,590
mechanism to find a form a
pricing discovery mechanism for

1096
01:06:40,590 --> 01:06:44,700
art. So I consider program
development, I consider

1097
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:47,490
programming development
engineering, an art, yes, it's a

1098
01:06:47,490 --> 01:06:51,420
science, but it's also an art.
Music is an art broadcasting as

1099
01:06:51,420 --> 01:06:56,550
an art recognized as such in
many, many awards. So it's it's

1100
01:06:56,550 --> 01:07:03,360
science and an art. And an NFT
allows you to value today's

1101
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,510
Rembrandt. You know, for one,
you look at the Rembrandt, and

1102
01:07:06,510 --> 01:07:10,350
it's, it's $60 million. For
another, it's like it's not

1103
01:07:10,350 --> 01:07:12,450
worth the paint on the canvas.
And you know, you've heard this

1104
01:07:12,450 --> 01:07:17,820
before. So they're both pricing,
price discovery mechanisms for

1105
01:07:17,820 --> 01:07:22,620
valuing creative work. Now, when
it comes to broadcasting, I've

1106
01:07:22,620 --> 01:07:27,690
done this almost all my life.
And it's a it is a very highly

1107
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,110
discardable product. In most
cases, it's here today, it's

1108
01:07:31,110 --> 01:07:34,230
gone tomorrow, show suck today,
I'll do a better one tomorrow.

1109
01:07:35,460 --> 01:07:39,990
But it's still valuable to
people. And and and that's the,

1110
01:07:40,020 --> 01:07:44,610
that's the crux of how we look
at value for value. And the

1111
01:07:44,610 --> 01:07:49,230
definition. In fact, a value
cannot be determined by anyone

1112
01:07:49,230 --> 01:07:52,860
else, but the person who holds
the value. So if I'm listening

1113
01:07:52,860 --> 01:07:56,190
to a podcast, and you've
streamed technically ones and

1114
01:07:56,190 --> 01:08:00,420
zeros in mp3 encoded and
compressed format, to me, I have

1115
01:08:00,420 --> 01:08:04,320
now received that value. And
only I can say how much that's

1116
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,530
worth to me, it could be just
worth the bits that came in on,

1117
01:08:07,740 --> 01:08:12,090
it could be worth $100 million
for an idea I got. So then for

1118
01:08:12,090 --> 01:08:16,110
me to have the mechanism to
return that value. And in our

1119
01:08:16,110 --> 01:08:19,410
case with value for value in
real time, with an almost

1120
01:08:19,410 --> 01:08:24,450
instantaneous exchange is
something that makes sense for

1121
01:08:24,450 --> 01:08:29,400
finding that right pricing
mechanism. So what you said

1122
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:34,830
about the community and tokens
and everything, absolutely valid

1123
01:08:34,860 --> 01:08:38,520
100% i think i think that will
come into play. We've already

1124
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,240
seen many podcasts do this. And
you know, it was a great news

1125
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:47,100
story for a second now it's
gone. I believe NF T's like art

1126
01:08:47,130 --> 01:08:52,350
are at this moment in time, a
huge money laundering business.

1127
01:08:53,310 --> 01:08:56,880
You know, this most rich people
buy art and then store it in

1128
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,670
harbors where it's free. It's a
way to store your money

1129
01:08:59,670 --> 01:09:03,450
somewhere else. Yeah. So I think
there's a lot of money

1130
01:09:03,450 --> 01:09:08,760
laundering going on. But there's
also collectibles are nothing

1131
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:13,290
new. You know, this is the this
is like it's just like Beanie

1132
01:09:13,290 --> 01:09:17,070
Babies and the markets will ebb
and flow and they'll be around

1133
01:09:17,070 --> 01:09:21,900
for 100 years. The only thing
it's done that is extraordinary

1134
01:09:22,110 --> 01:09:29,010
is it has delivered a pricing
mechanism for digital art. I

1135
01:09:29,010 --> 01:09:34,230
personally feel that the the
value for value streaming

1136
01:09:34,230 --> 01:09:39,270
payments are a hopefully a
somewhat easier on ramp into God

1137
01:09:39,270 --> 01:09:42,960
knows what this alien beast the
internet will will create for us

1138
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:43,500
next.

1139
01:09:45,989 --> 01:09:49,019
I don't I'm not disagreeing. I
just think that there's a

1140
01:09:49,109 --> 01:09:52,409
interesting model that would sit
alongside what you guys are

1141
01:09:52,409 --> 01:09:55,859
doing. I don't fully understand
NF t. So I'm not going to sit

1142
01:09:55,859 --> 01:09:59,489
here and say I'm an expert, but
the bits I have understood of

1143
01:09:59,489 --> 01:10:03,659
it. It fundamentally is a
digital share in a community.

1144
01:10:03,659 --> 01:10:07,889
That's a transferable tradable
item, perhaps that has a value

1145
01:10:07,889 --> 01:10:10,499
attached to it. I think there's
got to be something in there

1146
01:10:10,499 --> 01:10:13,559
that is worth sort of sniffing
around a bit more on that.

1147
01:10:13,559 --> 01:10:14,099
Totally.

1148
01:10:14,850 --> 01:10:15,330
Totally.

1149
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,360
I think there is the difference,
though, I think it comes down to

1150
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,480
where the debrief went into
equity, and just assert, you

1151
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:27,570
know, like a service or a goods
based transaction. Because if

1152
01:10:27,570 --> 01:10:31,710
you have something like a it's
the difference between buying a

1153
01:10:31,710 --> 01:10:35,490
share of buying a share of stock
or buying a good friend versus

1154
01:10:35,490 --> 01:10:40,440
participating in IPO, you've got
you've got this thing that NFT

1155
01:10:40,590 --> 01:10:46,110
is more akin to me to like a a
share of Berkshire Hathaway you

1156
01:10:46,110 --> 01:10:49,350
know, because that thing, that
thing Yeah, it's it's a scarce

1157
01:10:49,500 --> 01:10:53,340
it's a scarce item. But before
too, you know, once Yeah,

1158
01:10:53,340 --> 01:10:56,430
but that's not true. It's not
true Dave because you can't it

1159
01:10:56,490 --> 01:11:00,600
by its very nature being non
fungible, you cannot exchange it

1160
01:11:01,470 --> 01:11:04,980
easily for anything else where
share Berkshire Hathaway, you

1161
01:11:04,980 --> 01:11:07,980
can do all kinds of stuff with
that. Yeah, guess

1162
01:11:07,980 --> 01:11:11,940
what a man is like it. He goes
like it can be traded, it can be

1163
01:11:11,940 --> 01:11:15,450
traded. And then before you know
it, you have a you know, you

1164
01:11:15,450 --> 01:11:20,520
have this NFT that's, let's just
say now it's priced at at

1165
01:11:20,610 --> 01:11:25,860
$85,000 of USD equivalent in
Bitcoin. I mean, like, what good

1166
01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:28,650
does that do? Anybody, I mean,
like, the average person is not

1167
01:11:28,650 --> 01:11:31,890
going to be able to, to try to
even get in that game.

1168
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,610
Yeah, but what you can do is
take a percentage. So let's say

1169
01:11:35,610 --> 01:11:39,810
you were talking about a money,
I'll just take that as an

1170
01:11:39,810 --> 01:11:43,110
example, Adam Hughes. Now I can
never afford to buy 60 million

1171
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:46,470
power money, but I might be able
to afford a 6000 slither of that

1172
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:50,340
money. And I might be able to
buy an NFT that's on a

1173
01:11:50,340 --> 01:11:55,140
blockchain that registers that I
own X percent of that money. And

1174
01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:58,500
it will allow people who can't
afford the whole thing to buy

1175
01:11:58,500 --> 01:12:02,070
into the segment of that thing.
If that thing increases in

1176
01:12:02,070 --> 01:12:06,690
value, so does my NFT token. And
then I could exchange that token

1177
01:12:06,690 --> 01:12:10,620
and sell it to other more Dave,
and you can buy it, but you know

1178
01:12:10,620 --> 01:12:13,710
that the price I'm setting, it
doesn't change the money, the

1179
01:12:13,710 --> 01:12:18,900
physical art, it changes the
token that is a registered non

1180
01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:23,280
Trump vote sorry, a non it's
basically within the blockchain,

1181
01:12:23,310 --> 01:12:25,020
there's non repudiated one
transfer,

1182
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,840
okay, is this this is this is
what makes me uncomfortable

1183
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,450
about a theory I'm okay, I got I
got I got this back in my head.

1184
01:12:30,450 --> 01:12:34,440
Again, this, this sounds
uncomfortably like like, the

1185
01:12:34,440 --> 01:12:39,780
complexity around defy. And just
the whole, there's like 10

1186
01:12:39,780 --> 01:12:43,140
different ways that can crash
and burn. There's a simple, the,

1187
01:12:43,410 --> 01:12:47,160
the simple, like, you stream the
value stream value back to you

1188
01:12:47,670 --> 01:12:51,960
that that transaction makes
sense. And there's, it's a

1189
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:57,270
limit, there's a limited set of
scenarios, where that can fail.

1190
01:12:58,410 --> 01:13:04,110
The the whole the construct of
things like defy and NFT open up

1191
01:13:05,550 --> 01:13:10,860
100 different pathways of
failure, where from fraud, you

1192
01:13:10,860 --> 01:13:14,670
know, all the way down to
technical problems. And it seems

1193
01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:18,840
like ignoring for the moment,
the the sort of Beanie Baby

1194
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:23,850
esque, you know, quality of it.
And if they even if it's even

1195
01:13:23,850 --> 01:13:29,220
gonna last, the complexity
around trading a digital digital

1196
01:13:29,220 --> 01:13:35,190
asset, and trying to keep track
of what that means in real world

1197
01:13:35,190 --> 01:13:42,540
value is sounds so difficult to
pull off? When there's already

1198
01:13:42,570 --> 01:13:46,140
when there's already an
alternative. You know, so that

1199
01:13:46,140 --> 01:13:48,660
the you have when you when you
have the ability to just

1200
01:13:48,750 --> 01:13:51,780
basically say, here's my
address, and I'm just gonna send

1201
01:13:51,780 --> 01:13:56,070
you send you satoshis like, it's
just such a simple transaction

1202
01:13:56,070 --> 01:14:01,530
model that that defies, you
know, it's sort of it puts a

1203
01:14:01,530 --> 01:14:04,290
moat around itself. We manage
your scenario.

1204
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:09,060
Yeah, well, basically, you know,
Sam, I'm all for it. I have you

1205
01:14:09,060 --> 01:14:15,330
know, it's totally and I'm also
I really hope Brian of London,

1206
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:21,120
gets his hive token adopted, it
works. And so we're totally open

1207
01:14:21,150 --> 01:14:25,260
and anyone can put the stuff in
their implementation, you know,

1208
01:14:25,260 --> 01:14:29,280
if anyone shows, we're not going
to do it. I at least I can. I

1209
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:33,180
think that is I don't want to
ever say never but I don't see a

1210
01:14:33,180 --> 01:14:36,390
reason for us to do it. But if
anyone wants to do that, that's

1211
01:14:36,420 --> 01:14:39,600
I mean, I hope to see people
show up with the craziest nutty

1212
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:43,350
ideas. It definitely does not
have to be lightning. The

1213
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:49,080
concept is so elegant, Dave,
congratulations. Is the the

1214
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:53,310
whole concept of value block is
so elegant. is so simple, that

1215
01:14:53,310 --> 01:14:57,210
is so extensible is so usable by
anything that that will be

1216
01:14:57,210 --> 01:14:59,100
great. I'm all for it.

1217
01:14:59,130 --> 01:15:02,160
All for it. You know, we talked
about this, we actually pre

1218
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,160
recorded a show with Ron Gentry
from lightning labs. That'll be

1219
01:15:05,790 --> 01:15:08,970
next week, next week's show. And
we talked about this a little

1220
01:15:08,970 --> 01:15:12,150
bit on that show with him is
there, this evolution of open

1221
01:15:12,150 --> 01:15:16,170
source initiatives. And one of
the things we talked about was

1222
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,040
with, with, I think we're
currently in this new phase of

1223
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:25,290
open source software, where, and
I would put us in this in this

1224
01:15:25,290 --> 01:15:31,320
model, where you see open source
companies that are building and

1225
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,140
putting all of their source and
all of their materials out there

1226
01:15:34,140 --> 01:15:36,930
in the open for other people to
have and use and building

1227
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:43,920
protocols. And, and what's so
beautiful about that is they and

1228
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:48,750
when the US in this scenario, we
do 1% on anybody that uses us,

1229
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:53,190
we're participating in our
success or failure is tied to

1230
01:15:53,190 --> 01:15:57,840
the success of that protocol or
that open source thing. But then

1231
01:15:57,870 --> 01:16:00,960
the beauty but the whole beauty
behind it is that if we

1232
01:16:01,260 --> 01:16:04,530
disappear, if we were to say,
you know, okay, we're just we're

1233
01:16:04,530 --> 01:16:07,380
not, we're losing money, we just
can't sustain this five years

1234
01:16:07,380 --> 01:16:11,310
from now, the the thing we
built, still functions perfectly

1235
01:16:11,310 --> 01:16:15,240
and continues to operate, even
long after we're gone. Because

1236
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:17,970
instead, that's the way the
thing with the value block, and

1237
01:16:17,970 --> 01:16:21,390
the namespace and all that
stuff. Somebody else can come

1238
01:16:21,390 --> 01:16:24,330
along, and like you're talking
about it with a, they can build

1239
01:16:24,330 --> 01:16:27,600
an NF t system, and they can
plug it into the value block, as

1240
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:31,620
long as we built it, right? They
can plug you can plugged five in

1241
01:16:31,620 --> 01:16:33,840
there, you can plug it there,
you can plug anything into that

1242
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:35,130
you can plug it into it,

1243
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:40,050
in fact, you know, the promise
that we made when when Dave and

1244
01:16:40,050 --> 01:16:48,870
I started this was besides the
the having the the the index,

1245
01:16:49,290 --> 01:16:57,240
protect, preserve free speech
was that everybody would be able

1246
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:00,900
to participate in the success of
the project. And, and, and the

1247
01:17:00,900 --> 01:17:05,070
main, the main people were the
developers. So there are

1248
01:17:05,070 --> 01:17:07,950
musicians there, they're you
know, there's the drummer and

1249
01:17:07,950 --> 01:17:11,010
the banjo player and this other
guy, and someone's got a fucking

1250
01:17:11,010 --> 01:17:13,560
Theremin. And I don't know what
the what, why does that thing

1251
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,800
work? What are you plugged into?
And it we're all jacketed into

1252
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:21,120
this one big mixing board? And
Dave's exactly right. It's it's

1253
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,930
the success of all. And as we've
expanded now we have these two

1254
01:17:24,930 --> 01:17:28,080
worlds coming together of
podcast app developers and

1255
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:31,620
lightning wallet developers who
don't speak each other's

1256
01:17:31,620 --> 01:17:35,070
language at all, we have not
successfully integrated them

1257
01:17:35,070 --> 01:17:39,990
together as a group. But money
speaks, you know, it's the

1258
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:44,250
Satoshi that unites us all. So
when you know when we're filling

1259
01:17:44,250 --> 01:17:46,470
up channels, and it's a little
bit of a technical thing, but

1260
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:49,890
when we're when we've basically
plugged up someone's pipes,

1261
01:17:49,890 --> 01:17:52,800
because we're successful, and
it's working, and people are

1262
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:57,570
sending streams of satoshis. And
we need to work on the routing

1263
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:02,220
of this this ad hoc kind of
second layer network. I mean, I

1264
01:18:02,220 --> 01:18:06,390
ping a ping Tim at ln pay and
say, yo, brother, can you can

1265
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:09,090
you do something here? Can you
can you open up channels, which

1266
01:18:09,090 --> 01:18:12,750
costs him actual money to do and
he'll get a network network

1267
01:18:12,750 --> 01:18:16,290
routing fee? And if I thank him
for that his answer is not

1268
01:18:16,290 --> 01:18:18,390
You're welcome. His answer is
No, man, this is bigger than all

1269
01:18:18,390 --> 01:18:21,780
of us. And that ain't that the
truth?

1270
01:18:23,340 --> 01:18:27,750
No, no, it is it is building
something as big I get it. It

1271
01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:30,240
was just curious as to where
your head was, is obviously I

1272
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:32,250
don't talk to you. I don't have
the pleasure of talking to you

1273
01:18:32,250 --> 01:18:34,020
every time. I thought I'd ask
that.

1274
01:18:34,290 --> 01:18:37,380
By the way, Sam, you can always
talk to me and always give me a

1275
01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:41,400
shout. You've never asked me
darling. You've never asked me

1276
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:47,700
to chat. He never asked me. So.
So if you already I think I gave

1277
01:18:47,700 --> 01:18:51,300
my opinion. And I think it's
very valid. There's there's a

1278
01:18:51,300 --> 01:18:55,890
lot of in blockchain technology,
there's this concept of the

1279
01:18:55,890 --> 01:19:00,390
Merkle tree. And it's now going
down a damn rabbit hole which

1280
01:19:00,390 --> 01:19:00,870
might need to know

1281
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:03,000
how to make curry duck.

1282
01:19:03,630 --> 01:19:09,180
But the Merkle tree isn't affect
how a blockchain is, you can

1283
01:19:09,180 --> 01:19:13,560
visualize a blockchain how you
know, it has all these blocks

1284
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:16,740
trailing behind it, which is a
history. So within the

1285
01:19:16,740 --> 01:19:24,000
podcasting space, I said it you
can determine by the payment

1286
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:28,170
structure, loyalty, who was in
early who brought in other

1287
01:19:28,170 --> 01:19:30,660
people, there's a lot of
different aspects we have not

1288
01:19:30,660 --> 01:19:32,640
explored yet, which quite
frankly, I'm not even

1289
01:19:33,150 --> 01:19:38,820
knowledgeable enough to speak
about. So, where my head's at,

1290
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,870
to answer your question
directly, is okay, we have value

1291
01:19:42,870 --> 01:19:46,380
flowing like with on day one, we
had $400 worth of value

1292
01:19:46,380 --> 01:19:51,300
streaming between listeners,
podcasters podcast app

1293
01:19:51,300 --> 01:19:54,660
developers. So those are the
those are the main players that

1294
01:19:54,660 --> 01:19:57,630
have been receiving value and
that that'll be 700 today and

1295
01:19:57,630 --> 01:20:01,350
maybe 1000 next week, so there's
an I know this because we

1296
01:20:01,380 --> 01:20:04,560
typically get 1%. So I can just
do a calculation and say this is

1297
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:10,470
what's kind of floating out
there. The next piece is to use

1298
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:15,930
these little, little micro
payments, as a carrier with a

1299
01:20:15,930 --> 01:20:21,210
payload so that we can do cross
app comments, and chat on

1300
01:20:21,210 --> 01:20:28,140
episodes and sync those to the
playback of the podcast. So So,

1301
01:20:28,470 --> 01:20:32,040
and with that kindness, it was
to me it was, and I, and I'm

1302
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:37,110
very excited about this, I saw
James get excited about what

1303
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:40,290
we're doing when he saw
statistics. You see, I knew that

1304
01:20:40,290 --> 01:20:43,980
what happened. So the boys and
girls over there, James Kelly, I

1305
01:20:43,980 --> 01:20:47,790
know the boys and girls over
there, Satoshi stream, they, you

1306
01:20:47,790 --> 01:20:50,640
know, who have, I mean, it's
beautiful. What's happened

1307
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:52,770
there. And this is part of
what's so great about an open

1308
01:20:52,770 --> 01:20:55,470
source project, I didn't tell
them to do that. They said, oh,

1309
01:20:55,470 --> 01:20:59,220
here's an API. Here's how we
talked to the guys who can flip

1310
01:20:59,220 --> 01:21:02,490
stuff around or help us. And
they've created something which

1311
01:21:02,490 --> 01:21:07,140
shows statistics by chapter, how
much how much you made. So this

1312
01:21:07,140 --> 01:21:10,710
is listener statistics, which as
you know, Sam, coming from a

1313
01:21:10,710 --> 01:21:15,030
broadcast world is mind blowing
and terrifying at the same time.

1314
01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:19,140
Because a, we can actually now
know when people are listening

1315
01:21:19,170 --> 01:21:22,470
and with the boost function,
know what people appreciated.

1316
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,230
We'll also know how many people
are actually listening.

1317
01:21:27,060 --> 01:21:27,810
The radio world.

1318
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,520
This is the scary part of the
equation, which is why I think

1319
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:34,920
there's also going to be a lot
of resistance, no one really

1320
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:35,730
wants to know.

1321
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,790
No, they don't, they really
don't want to know, they're

1322
01:21:41,790 --> 01:21:45,960
quite happy to say what it might
be based on a small sample, that

1323
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:47,160
what the radio world does.

1324
01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:50,250
Now, do you think that if we
implemented if there was an

1325
01:21:50,250 --> 01:21:55,140
implementation of a streaming
player for what you're doing,

1326
01:21:55,440 --> 01:22:01,230
that your audience would be
interested in, in in a wallet,

1327
01:22:01,230 --> 01:22:05,760
that could they could stream?
Just little bits of satoshis as

1328
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:08,490
value for value when they're
listening to your radio station?

1329
01:22:09,330 --> 01:22:13,800
I'm completely I mean, I think
we've got to move to an IP based

1330
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,340
radio system delivery where we
actually know for advertisers as

1331
01:22:17,340 --> 01:22:21,420
well as listeners, what's going
on? I mean, the big the big scam

1332
01:22:21,420 --> 01:22:25,110
right now in podcasting is is in
advertising right now. You know,

1333
01:22:25,140 --> 01:22:29,160
you, you put your ad into
podcasts, it gets downloaded

1334
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,100
from Apple, and half your
advertising isn't listened to

1335
01:22:32,100 --> 01:22:34,590
because you don't know how far
the podcast has been actually

1336
01:22:34,590 --> 01:22:38,370
streamed. Yeah, but you're
paying for it. And you know that

1337
01:22:38,490 --> 01:22:41,820
that's one problem we've got, I
think, you know, again, going

1338
01:22:41,820 --> 01:22:44,730
back to value for value that
should be for the advertiser a

1339
01:22:44,730 --> 01:22:49,110
value for value, tell me how far
you know, that podcast was

1340
01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:51,810
trained. And I'll pay the answer
if it was actually listened to

1341
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:53,850
not not I paid, whether it's,

1342
01:22:54,090 --> 01:22:57,060
and I can, I can see hybrids,
you know, I've always said that

1343
01:22:57,060 --> 01:23:00,600
the two are not mutually
exclusive. advertising, I find

1344
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:05,100
to be extremely valuable in some
cases. And, in fact, contrary to

1345
01:23:05,250 --> 01:23:09,390
targeting and all this, you
know, programmatic ad buying.

1346
01:23:10,620 --> 01:23:14,220
I'm very interested in some
podcasts, advertisements,

1347
01:23:14,220 --> 01:23:16,980
because I know that there will
be goods and services related to

1348
01:23:16,980 --> 01:23:20,490
that podcast, which used to be a
dirty word. But you know, I'm

1349
01:23:20,550 --> 01:23:23,250
I'm reading bridal magazine,
because I'm buying a wedding

1350
01:23:23,250 --> 01:23:24,870
gown. So I want the ads.

1351
01:23:25,950 --> 01:23:27,690
To me, there's something I need
to talk about.

1352
01:23:29,069 --> 01:23:32,519
I was just not going to
interject that stuff earlier.

1353
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:35,310
Let me tell you, there's this
your phone number I have my eye

1354
01:23:35,310 --> 01:23:42,300
on it's dynamite. So but you can
see a scenario where, first of

1355
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:46,590
all, as a listener, I or as a
podcaster, I would say, Listen

1356
01:23:46,590 --> 01:23:50,130
to the ads, if you don't listen
to the ads, that's fine. You

1357
01:23:50,190 --> 01:23:52,860
don't have to feel bad about
skipping the ads. Another part

1358
01:23:52,860 --> 01:23:57,210
no one talks about because
everyone skips ads as a fast

1359
01:23:57,210 --> 01:24:00,300
forward button for a reason. So
you don't have to feel bad about

1360
01:24:00,300 --> 01:24:02,820
it. Because you're probably
going to give me more value than

1361
01:24:02,820 --> 01:24:07,200
your CPM value, just by how much
you'd like to show. But you can

1362
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:12,630
also say, hey, stream the value
to me. And if you listen to the

1363
01:24:12,630 --> 01:24:17,460
ads, I'll be able to prove it
with now. So a one minute ad.

1364
01:24:18,090 --> 01:24:22,410
Let's say it's 10 satoshis. Wow.
Okay, that's what is that Dave?

1365
01:24:22,410 --> 01:24:26,100
Is that one? Like a penny and a
half now? It's a it's a penny?

1366
01:24:26,190 --> 01:24:27,420
No, it's a 10th of a penny.

1367
01:24:27,930 --> 01:24:30,030
It's Yes. Right. It's about a
penny 10th.

1368
01:24:30,030 --> 01:24:31,590
Yeah, it is a penny now, okay.

1369
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:32,610
Yeah, tense the time we

1370
01:24:32,610 --> 01:24:36,660
can go milli satoshis. Doesn't
matter. We can do anything. And

1371
01:24:36,690 --> 01:24:39,060
and then the ad, you could say,
you could say Listen, if you

1372
01:24:39,060 --> 01:24:43,650
listen to the ad, the advertiser
will give me a 10x bonus. It's

1373
01:24:43,650 --> 01:24:47,010
kind of like, like a matching
donation.

1374
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:49,710
Oh, yeah. The 2x match. Yeah,

1375
01:24:49,739 --> 01:24:54,959
yeah, so Exactly. So the main
thing is I think these

1376
01:24:54,959 --> 01:24:59,669
statistics are exciting. You
know, when Apple first came out

1377
01:24:59,669 --> 01:25:05,699
with it, You know, it's really
only for the podcaster Connect,

1378
01:25:05,699 --> 01:25:10,019
can you see it and it only works
on, you know, certain versions

1379
01:25:10,019 --> 01:25:13,349
of iPhone and above and the
Apple App. So it's very

1380
01:25:13,379 --> 01:25:19,079
restrictive that way. But now to
have this data, my gosh, it's I

1381
01:25:19,079 --> 01:25:23,159
mean, I'm looking at, I finally
have enough data to look at. I

1382
01:25:23,159 --> 01:25:27,839
had no agenda. And I can see, of
course, every shows has a slope,

1383
01:25:27,869 --> 01:25:30,869
right, as it's listening slope
that gradually goes down toward

1384
01:25:30,869 --> 01:25:33,929
the end, the longer the show,
the more people drop off, or

1385
01:25:33,929 --> 01:25:36,809
just it's, you can just feel as
you can see it, it's a regular

1386
01:25:36,809 --> 01:25:40,619
slope. When we hit the donation
segment, it's like a little

1387
01:25:40,619 --> 01:25:46,079
gully. So it goes poof, it drops
down 5%. And then that 5% comes

1388
01:25:46,079 --> 01:25:49,109
back up after the donation said,
Now at this point, you're down

1389
01:25:49,109 --> 01:25:52,709
7%, because you're on a gradual
slope, but people came back.

1390
01:25:53,039 --> 01:25:56,129
Now, that's very interesting
knowledge to have, you know, so

1391
01:25:56,129 --> 01:26:00,209
these types of things we can now
see, and it doesn't have to

1392
01:26:00,809 --> 01:26:04,409
break the bank. In fact, you can
work with your audience and say,

1393
01:26:04,409 --> 01:26:07,619
Hey, this is a great tracking
mechanism. So I can get better

1394
01:26:07,619 --> 01:26:11,519
ads, better prices. I mean, it
works in so many ways, no rules.

1395
01:26:12,750 --> 01:26:17,400
But I mean, Kevin Kelley, in his
book 1000, true fans, he

1396
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,630
actually prints the last page, a
refund for the whole book. But

1397
01:26:21,630 --> 01:26:24,780
he, he works out that most
people won't get to the last

1398
01:26:24,780 --> 01:26:30,240
page of the page. Exactly.
Literally, if you get to the

1399
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:32,580
last page, he will tell you
exactly how to get a full

1400
01:26:32,580 --> 01:26:36,090
refund. And one of the examples
he gives in that book, he says,

1401
01:26:36,090 --> 01:26:39,870
Look, if TV advertising was he
took the budget of a TV

1402
01:26:39,870 --> 01:26:41,790
advertising company, which
because they don't know who's

1403
01:26:41,790 --> 01:26:44,790
watching, they really don't at
all a guess. But if you actually

1404
01:26:44,790 --> 01:26:47,910
had an IP based digital model
where you could say, right, did

1405
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,940
Adam watch that ad? Yes, right,
give him a percentage of that

1406
01:26:50,940 --> 01:26:54,690
budget, did Dave watch the idea.
So you are actually paying for

1407
01:26:54,690 --> 01:26:57,360
people's time and attention,
which is the value for value

1408
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:00,990
modeling. And that's really what
you've got to do, you got to the

1409
01:27:00,990 --> 01:27:03,450
models got to be spun on its
head, people have got to be

1410
01:27:03,450 --> 01:27:07,500
rewarded for their time and
attention. And that mechanism

1411
01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:10,290
for payment, and whether it's
satoshis, or it's another

1412
01:27:10,290 --> 01:27:13,920
mechanism has to exist. And
that's, that's the micro payment

1413
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:16,230
system that's been missing on
the internet, the only thing I

1414
01:27:16,230 --> 01:27:19,440
changed about what you just said
is I don't believe people need

1415
01:27:19,440 --> 01:27:24,150
to be rewarded for their time. I
believe people need to value

1416
01:27:24,150 --> 01:27:24,690
time.

1417
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:30,930
And so I see it exactly, almost
opposite everything the same.

1418
01:27:31,410 --> 01:27:35,520
Just that one nuance that the
person who is receiving value

1419
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:40,110
from the Creator has to
determine the value of that,

1420
01:27:40,110 --> 01:27:41,250
that they want to return.

1421
01:27:41,550 --> 01:27:44,310
And where that's that's why the
boost button is so important.

1422
01:27:44,460 --> 01:27:46,200
That is so beautiful.

1423
01:27:46,590 --> 01:27:50,550
Yeah, otherwise, otherwise, it's
purely just a tom play. And your

1424
01:27:50,580 --> 01:27:53,400
you can set your time
preference. I but your time

1425
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:57,330
preference changes sometimes. I
mean, like, if I'm, when I'm

1426
01:27:57,330 --> 01:28:02,460
listening to. I'm listening to
pod land. And if I'm listening

1427
01:28:02,460 --> 01:28:05,460
to pod land, and I know that I
can't, I've got to go do

1428
01:28:05,460 --> 01:28:09,390
something else. And I really,
and I know instinctively I'm not

1429
01:28:09,390 --> 01:28:11,430
going to be able to return to
this show. So I'm not I'm really

1430
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:13,890
like halfway through it. But
I've already

1431
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,000
hit two boosts and say bye.
Thanks. Thanks for the thanks

1432
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:18,570
for the memory.

1433
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:22,260
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, cuz I'm
like, Okay, well, I just, I just

1434
01:28:22,260 --> 01:28:25,410
hit the boost button a few
times. And then I bail. Boost

1435
01:28:25,410 --> 01:28:25,770
and bail

1436
01:28:25,769 --> 01:28:28,829
baby boosted mail. Yeah, yeah,
it's

1437
01:28:28,830 --> 01:28:31,470
not just a time, it's not just a
template, because that's,

1438
01:28:32,010 --> 01:28:37,320
that's, that's an inaccurate,
and the, and it lets me make

1439
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:40,710
that determination. You know,
sometimes I'll just sit there

1440
01:28:40,710 --> 01:28:43,290
and let the thing play just to
just because I'll let it play

1441
01:28:43,290 --> 01:28:47,940
out. But you know, that that's
something that subjective value,

1442
01:28:48,390 --> 01:28:51,570
that I have to make that
decision. That's not something

1443
01:28:51,570 --> 01:28:57,420
that can be sort of pre rendered
in advance, right. And that is

1444
01:28:57,480 --> 01:28:59,730
me speaking of value, we
probably need to thanks. And we

1445
01:28:59,729 --> 01:29:02,729
do need to thank some people if
you can hold on for a bit there,

1446
01:29:02,729 --> 01:29:06,869
Sam and bear with us as a value
for value proposition these

1447
01:29:07,649 --> 01:29:12,659
these donations support the
entire project. After our

1448
01:29:12,659 --> 01:29:15,929
initial couple of weeks, we've
been running purely on donations

1449
01:29:15,929 --> 01:29:21,239
now neither Dave or I get paid
or Eric, but that's okay. having

1450
01:29:21,239 --> 01:29:24,929
the time of my life and we built
a whole nother revenue stream

1451
01:29:24,929 --> 01:29:29,369
for for our, for our podcast
work. And we're extremely

1452
01:29:29,369 --> 01:29:32,729
excited about doing all this. So
the value of value is what do

1453
01:29:32,729 --> 01:29:36,719
you get out of this project we
have podcast index.org which by

1454
01:29:36,719 --> 01:29:40,889
itself is is worth considering
to support especially in light

1455
01:29:40,889 --> 01:29:45,779
of Sam's Nostradamus like
prognostication that soon it

1456
01:29:45,779 --> 01:29:49,079
will be the only go to index
Well, the only one up and

1457
01:29:49,079 --> 01:29:52,499
running, anybody can recreate
and get an index going which is

1458
01:29:52,499 --> 01:29:56,519
part of the beauty of the open
source. This this show itself,

1459
01:29:57,029 --> 01:29:59,939
although you can also support
this by getting any one of the

1460
01:30:00,719 --> 01:30:04,679
value for value apps pod friend
breeze swings chat app or pod

1461
01:30:04,679 --> 01:30:07,349
station browser extension. You
can find all these under new

1462
01:30:07,349 --> 01:30:10,979
podcast apps calm. So we still
like the cookbooks while we're

1463
01:30:10,979 --> 01:30:13,859
getting while we're
bootstrapping everything. You

1464
01:30:13,859 --> 01:30:16,439
can do that by going to podcast
index.org scroll on the bottom

1465
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:19,679
you got the big red Donate
button. And that'll do a pay pal

1466
01:30:19,679 --> 01:30:23,519
for you also thrown into the
mix. While stocks last we've got

1467
01:30:23,519 --> 01:30:26,939
podcasts index dot social. We've
got our GitHub and then we've

1468
01:30:26,939 --> 01:30:30,149
got is we've got a telegram
channel now. Whoo.

1469
01:30:30,180 --> 01:30:31,740
No, I'm going crazy. I'm living

1470
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,240
telegram. There's a whole world
there. All the cool kids are on

1471
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:36,900
telegram who

1472
01:30:36,899 --> 01:30:41,969
know you screwed me over
telegram. And then all this. I

1473
01:30:41,969 --> 01:30:45,059
didn't realize this. But I had
like five people. Evidently,

1474
01:30:45,059 --> 01:30:47,609
it's one of those, you know,
apps that wants to look into

1475
01:30:47,609 --> 01:30:50,669
your phone number and give you
your social graph and all this

1476
01:30:50,669 --> 01:30:53,309
kind of jazz. Well, I got like
five people popped up like, Hey,

1477
01:30:53,309 --> 01:30:56,909
cool. You're on telegram. Now
I'm now she's dangling away on

1478
01:30:56,909 --> 01:30:57,719
my Bellman? Yeah, you

1479
01:30:57,719 --> 01:31:00,209
got to mute everything right
away. It's not worth it. It's

1480
01:31:00,209 --> 01:31:02,789
not worth it. So Dave, what do
we what do we thank who to who

1481
01:31:02,789 --> 01:31:07,799
sent us some value today for for
the discuss here in the board

1482
01:31:07,799 --> 01:31:08,219
meeting.

1483
01:31:08,699 --> 01:31:14,819
First up, we got Christopher
isane. $33.33 Christopher

1484
01:31:14,819 --> 01:31:16,649
Christopher. Is the

1485
01:31:16,679 --> 01:31:19,319
Keystone. He is Mr. 2 million.

1486
01:31:20,490 --> 01:31:28,650
He is the sweetest trickler that
is that say that again? He is

1487
01:31:28,650 --> 01:31:31,950
Christopher icing the Swedish
tricolor. The seas are circling,

1488
01:31:32,550 --> 01:31:37,410
circling podcasts and on a daily
you know, on a small rate every

1489
01:31:37,440 --> 01:31:39,750
every few minutes. His entire
mission

1490
01:31:39,780 --> 01:31:42,750
is I want to collect every
single feed that's out there.

1491
01:31:42,750 --> 01:31:47,790
That's valid. That's good. He
has collections. And he is he is

1492
01:31:47,790 --> 01:31:51,450
the National Archive. And he
just keeps working with with us

1493
01:31:51,450 --> 01:31:54,750
with you in particular to D dupe
make sure we get all the

1494
01:31:54,810 --> 01:31:56,760
everything in there. It's
fantastic.

1495
01:31:57,090 --> 01:32:00,780
His brain is basically just a
huge opml file is what it is.

1496
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:01,140
Yeah.

1497
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:04,350
Well, thank you very much.
Again, Chris. Thank you. I

1498
01:32:04,410 --> 01:32:06,900
really appreciate that. He's,
you know,

1499
01:32:06,900 --> 01:32:08,430
he's like he's building.

1500
01:32:09,029 --> 01:32:11,729
He's building some kind of
project that he explained to me

1501
01:32:11,729 --> 01:32:14,129
once and after, we have to get
another explanation from him.

1502
01:32:14,699 --> 01:32:17,279
Because he's got some crazy idea
he wants to do.

1503
01:32:18,540 --> 01:32:23,670
Let's see. Okay, we got Ray
fleischman gave us $25 I could

1504
01:32:23,670 --> 01:32:25,080
not find a note from Ray. So

1505
01:32:25,710 --> 01:32:28,560
the name sounds familiar though.
Thank you. Appreciate it.

1506
01:32:30,180 --> 01:32:30,810
We got here.

1507
01:32:33,450 --> 01:32:36,360
Okay. Okay,

1508
01:32:36,719 --> 01:32:44,279
this is a $25 donation. And it
says hi guys just call me.

1509
01:32:45,630 --> 01:32:47,370
Yeah. Okay.

1510
01:32:48,689 --> 01:32:52,619
Just call me vit Ville via Ll E.
villa.

1511
01:32:52,860 --> 01:32:54,420
Mm hmm.

1512
01:32:54,450 --> 01:32:58,890
Okay. All right. Yeah, this this
is promised this is the promised

1513
01:32:58,890 --> 01:33:05,160
raise for Dave. Pronounce if you
can pronounce my name correctly

1514
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:07,350
without cheating. I'll send you
another one.

1515
01:33:07,649 --> 01:33:09,659
v. Okay, vi Ll E.

1516
01:33:12,359 --> 01:33:13,919
Vi Ll E. Yeah,

1517
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:17,070
Sam. Yeah, you Sam you go on
vacation and you want holiday

1518
01:33:17,100 --> 01:33:20,760
France? It's got to be view
right view? Yeah. mean Ville

1519
01:33:20,820 --> 01:33:24,360
view. Oh, Sam. Did I hear French
accent?

1520
01:33:24,899 --> 01:33:26,249
A little bit of a French accent?

1521
01:33:27,569 --> 01:33:28,109
per

1522
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:36,900
se it's like basket bean.

1523
01:33:37,019 --> 01:33:40,169
Yeah. busca via the Exactly.
veal. Okay, good. We nailed it.

1524
01:33:40,169 --> 01:33:41,549
So you got another race coming,
Dave.

1525
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:47,790
Okay. That I just want to say
that you got YouTube. And then

1526
01:33:47,790 --> 01:33:50,100
the dude from Alabama trying to
pronounce everything that just

1527
01:33:50,100 --> 01:33:53,160
does not sound like I don't
think I have the correct role.

1528
01:33:53,220 --> 01:33:53,580
No, I

1529
01:33:53,580 --> 01:33:54,390
think it's nothing.

1530
01:33:54,389 --> 01:33:56,219
It's veal y'all.

1531
01:33:58,830 --> 01:34:00,750
veil, veil veil.

1532
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:01,920
Right.

1533
01:34:02,010 --> 01:34:06,810
Ask me Ma, Ma. Ma. Thank you.

1534
01:34:07,890 --> 01:34:08,760
Merci beaucoup.

1535
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:17,250
Via view. Yeah, I have the wrong
job on the show. Sit there say

1536
01:34:17,250 --> 01:34:22,500
Adam portress gave us $10. And
Adam says hello, gentlemen. Adam

1537
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:26,610
portress here from SC I guess
South Carolina is just a lowly

1538
01:34:26,610 --> 01:34:30,810
podcaster euro movie podcast
among many others, to someone

1539
01:34:30,810 --> 01:34:33,240
who knows next to nothing about
all of this and I feel I must

1540
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:36,120
support and say thanks today for
the help. So here's a little

1541
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:39,210
value for value. I helped him
get his feet on the value blog.

1542
01:34:39,270 --> 01:34:42,750
Oh, beautiful. What's the name
of the podcast? What's the

1543
01:34:42,750 --> 01:34:43,650
newest podcast?

1544
01:34:44,010 --> 01:34:45,210
Hero movie park

1545
01:34:45,210 --> 01:34:47,970
the hero movie. Okay, check it
out. I'll send you some stats

1546
01:34:47,970 --> 01:34:48,360
bro.

1547
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:51,960
Had no idea what I'm doing but
I'm about to build a Raspberry

1548
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:53,940
Pi and make my own no nice.

1549
01:34:54,779 --> 01:34:56,369
You are in for a ride.

1550
01:34:58,500 --> 01:35:00,570
A few people on the mastodon
there They've done that. They're

1551
01:35:00,570 --> 01:35:02,850
like, man, I just ordered a
Raspberry Pi. I got no idea what

1552
01:35:02,850 --> 01:35:03,180
I'm doing.

1553
01:35:03,779 --> 01:35:09,029
I have been doing tech support
for surge gene for a week now.

1554
01:35:09,389 --> 01:35:13,079
And I say, Hey, man, why don't
just get some voltage Nononono.

1555
01:35:13,199 --> 01:35:18,419
So he's he's, you know, got
Dockers and see like, Hey, man,

1556
01:35:18,419 --> 01:35:21,149
do you want any What? I'm going
to troubleshoot this in text for

1557
01:35:21,149 --> 01:35:25,619
you? Very nice though. You know
what, that's the way to learn,

1558
01:35:25,619 --> 01:35:28,799
man. That's how I learned you.
You're in for an education.

1559
01:35:29,099 --> 01:35:32,219
Jean is in be interviewed on
Jane's show next week.

1560
01:35:32,250 --> 01:35:36,630
Yeah, Gene, sir gene speaks is
something that must be listened

1561
01:35:36,630 --> 01:35:39,480
to his interviewing everybody.
Yeah. Well, it must be listened

1562
01:35:39,480 --> 01:35:41,790
to regardless. But he's
interviewing all of the

1563
01:35:41,790 --> 01:35:44,730
developers everybody can get his
hands on. And I really

1564
01:35:44,730 --> 01:35:47,250
appreciate that. He's, he's
really, he's really pushing

1565
01:35:47,250 --> 01:35:52,170
podcasting. 2.0 in all of its
glory, not just the sad story,

1566
01:35:52,170 --> 01:35:54,540
but you know, all of the
namespace stuff that's in this

1567
01:35:55,020 --> 01:35:55,410
podcast.

1568
01:35:56,010 --> 01:35:59,100
He's a great pilot, you know, I
coached him on that, too. He was

1569
01:35:59,100 --> 01:36:04,140
like, he was doing one time one
point to speed in recording and

1570
01:36:04,140 --> 01:36:09,450
chopping out all the silences. I
said, Dude, no, no, dude, no,

1571
01:36:09,450 --> 01:36:13,680
no. so mad. Sorry, we cleaned
them up. We took them to the

1572
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,410
Adam Curry podcaster clinic he's
safe now.

1573
01:36:18,359 --> 01:36:21,719
Adam says I'll take some art
today to karma for good luck if

1574
01:36:21,719 --> 01:36:28,259
he got it. Keep fighting the
good fight boys. Adam portress

1575
01:36:28,259 --> 01:36:28,919
cue paper.

1576
01:36:30,149 --> 01:36:31,679
And karma. You've got

1577
01:36:34,229 --> 01:36:34,769
karma

1578
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:37,710
shows bleeding over.

1579
01:36:37,859 --> 01:36:39,539
Yes. bleeding.

1580
01:36:40,410 --> 01:36:43,590
Your paper purple district where
you go Wow, good. crumble,

1581
01:36:44,220 --> 01:36:45,180
crumble ask.

1582
01:36:45,689 --> 01:36:53,549
We got this. Some Ryan, Ryan
Hayes emailed about that's

1583
01:36:53,549 --> 01:36:56,549
that's all of our donation says
that when I get a note to read

1584
01:36:56,549 --> 01:37:00,479
though. He says Hi, I'm Dave
love the podcast. I'm the

1585
01:37:00,479 --> 01:37:03,269
creator of an open source
flutter library called just

1586
01:37:03,299 --> 01:37:06,509
audio, which has helped app
developers create cross platform

1587
01:37:06,659 --> 01:37:10,109
Platform Podcast apps for iOS,
Android, and the webinar that

1588
01:37:10,109 --> 01:37:13,739
right on he says unfortunately,
I'm stretched to the limit

1589
01:37:13,739 --> 01:37:18,149
handling feature requests. B
says I was hoping you might be

1590
01:37:18,179 --> 01:37:21,119
able to give a shout out to the
project and hopefully entice

1591
01:37:21,119 --> 01:37:23,879
some of your listeners,
specifically those who are

1592
01:37:23,879 --> 01:37:26,429
developers of podcast apps to
join in the effort to build a

1593
01:37:26,429 --> 01:37:29,309
powerful open source audio
library that will hopefully

1594
01:37:29,309 --> 01:37:32,159
allow more app developers to
developers to bring their

1595
01:37:32,159 --> 01:37:36,449
podcast app ideas to life. Nice.
Yeah, interested developers can

1596
01:37:36,959 --> 01:37:37,409
get what's

1597
01:37:37,410 --> 01:37:38,400
it called? What's it called?

1598
01:37:39,090 --> 01:37:44,100
It's called just audio. It's a
flutter library. And the that he

1599
01:37:44,100 --> 01:37:48,300
says he he, he asked on that. He
says thanks for the work on the

1600
01:37:48,300 --> 01:37:51,180
namespace in the index. But you
need to pee as he says couple of

1601
01:37:51,180 --> 01:37:54,690
shows ago Adam mentioned the
flutter guys quote the flutter

1602
01:37:54,690 --> 01:37:58,050
guys always wind up doing the
iOS part last. I'm sure there's

1603
01:37:58,050 --> 01:38:01,920
a reason for it, unquote. And he
says, although each app

1604
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,140
developer may have their own
reasons for not releasing a

1605
01:38:04,140 --> 01:38:06,570
platform when they were
theoretically could I can say

1606
01:38:06,570 --> 01:38:10,470
that the flutter podcast apps
are also ultimately limited by

1607
01:38:10,470 --> 01:38:12,870
the features and platforms
supported by the underground

1608
01:38:13,290 --> 01:38:16,530
underlying audio library. That
is why I'm hoping to attract

1609
01:38:16,530 --> 01:38:20,790
more contributors to fill in
that missing support. He says

1610
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,380
the difference in the iOS is the
iOS audio API's are actually

1611
01:38:25,380 --> 01:38:28,740
more complex than the Android
ones. Yeah. And it takes more

1612
01:38:28,740 --> 01:38:31,740
than a couple of lines to what
it takes a couple of lines to

1613
01:38:31,740 --> 01:38:35,430
achieve an Android may in some
cases take 20 or more lines in

1614
01:38:35,430 --> 01:38:38,190
iOS. So he's just saying that
there's a lot

1615
01:38:38,549 --> 01:38:42,119
the audio supports not there.
Right. And so I put you on I put

1616
01:38:42,119 --> 01:38:46,139
a link to the GitHub in the show
notes. And just so you know,

1617
01:38:46,139 --> 01:38:49,289
they were flutter favorite. says
it right? They got a badge

1618
01:38:49,289 --> 01:38:50,219
flutter favorite.

1619
01:38:51,930 --> 01:38:53,160
podcast index favorite.

1620
01:38:53,729 --> 01:38:56,789
fluffer favorite. I've been
advocating for that. I can't get

1621
01:38:56,789 --> 01:38:59,279
it. Well, thank you all for the
value you gave us. That is

1622
01:38:59,279 --> 01:39:01,979
really appreciated. It does keep
stuff running, keep stuff.

1623
01:39:02,790 --> 01:39:05,190
You should defragment that whole
that whole group of people.

1624
01:39:09,899 --> 01:39:13,589
You guys are good and
defragmented Beautiful. podcast

1625
01:39:13,589 --> 01:39:18,929
index.org if you want to support
a Sam Hello, yes, you're

1626
01:39:18,989 --> 01:39:23,159
welcome, member of the board
here today. Outside outside of

1627
01:39:23,159 --> 01:39:26,969
the NFT thinking which I
appreciate and having heard you

1628
01:39:26,969 --> 01:39:29,429
said that I'm certainly will
keep my eyes and ears open for

1629
01:39:29,429 --> 01:39:31,709
anything that I see that might
be appropriate. What else can we

1630
01:39:31,709 --> 01:39:38,759
do? Or for you for your shows
for poor children in Africa? I

1631
01:39:38,759 --> 01:39:41,039
mean, what can we do that would
make you happy? Is there

1632
01:39:41,039 --> 01:39:42,179
anything within our power?

1633
01:39:43,140 --> 01:39:47,730
Yeah, one thing I spoken today
and I'd love to come back on the

1634
01:39:47,730 --> 01:39:51,990
show and talk about it at
another time. I still think in

1635
01:39:51,990 --> 01:39:56,220
the area of discoverability.
There is something Dave around

1636
01:39:56,220 --> 01:39:59,700
trackbacks and pingbacks that we
can take from the original RSS

1637
01:39:59,700 --> 01:40:06,060
feed And use for elements within
the player. So I would love as a

1638
01:40:06,420 --> 01:40:09,840
listener of a podcast be able to
put a comment or, you know,

1639
01:40:10,890 --> 01:40:13,890
physically, of course, like it
used to be in a blog or a pink

1640
01:40:13,890 --> 01:40:17,880
background track, I'd love to be
able to do something audibly to

1641
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:19,950
that in the middle of me
listening, I can say, Oh, wait a

1642
01:40:19,950 --> 01:40:22,500
minute, 23, there was something
really interesting that was said

1643
01:40:22,500 --> 01:40:25,770
by Adam and Dave, and then be
able to tweet that out or push

1644
01:40:25,770 --> 01:40:30,030
that out of some mechanism. So
that then the person gets that

1645
01:40:30,300 --> 01:40:34,530
unique URL identifier within the
RSS, so that it says, yep,

1646
01:40:34,740 --> 01:40:38,940
podcast x minute y. Yep, that's
the point. I'm going back to

1647
01:40:38,940 --> 01:40:42,210
exactly within this. There's not
like chapters is beyond

1648
01:40:42,210 --> 01:40:46,560
chapters. It's it's literally
like segments with inside of

1649
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:49,530
chapters even. That will, I
think, help with

1650
01:40:49,590 --> 01:40:50,430
discoverability.

1651
01:40:50,489 --> 01:40:53,789
Hold on a second. Just at the on
the heels, man on the cusp of

1652
01:40:53,789 --> 01:40:58,529
the show. We are going to do it
everybody. Hey, now it's hot.

1653
01:40:58,559 --> 01:41:03,509
That's right. Because we got
sound clips, sound bites, we got

1654
01:41:03,569 --> 01:41:06,089
recommendations. Take it away,
Dave.

1655
01:41:06,989 --> 01:41:11,129
Well, we reopened the namespace,
work today, or excuse me

1656
01:41:11,129 --> 01:41:14,459
yesterday with phase three by to
clean up the repo and get all

1657
01:41:14,459 --> 01:41:17,909
that stuff go in and just kind
of get get everything put back

1658
01:41:17,909 --> 01:41:21,059
together so that we can start
back work. And what we're

1659
01:41:21,059 --> 01:41:27,179
looking at for phase three is
trailers. That just right off

1660
01:41:27,179 --> 01:41:31,409
the bat trailers license, where
you can attach like a, you know,

1661
01:41:31,409 --> 01:41:33,509
if you wanted to make your whole
show, let's just say creative

1662
01:41:33,509 --> 01:41:36,659
comments, so people could share
it and reuse it. You could tag

1663
01:41:36,659 --> 01:41:40,379
it with a license. We're going
to look at adding location

1664
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:46,440
data to the chapters. And then
this this may be well doesn't

1665
01:41:46,470 --> 01:41:50,400
doesn't this? Doesn't this fit
in already with sound bites and

1666
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:53,130
with recommendations? I mean,
what I just heard Sam asked for

1667
01:41:53,130 --> 01:41:56,040
Yeah. It's literally sound guys.

1668
01:41:56,670 --> 01:41:59,910
Recommendations is the last is
the other one that we're going

1669
01:41:59,910 --> 01:42:04,440
to try to get out. And that's
Have you read that? And he's

1670
01:42:04,440 --> 01:42:07,140
seen that proposal, Sam? Yes, I

1671
01:42:07,140 --> 01:42:08,040
have. Yeah. What do you think?

1672
01:42:08,729 --> 01:42:12,689
What do you think? Yeah, that'd
be incorporated into what you're

1673
01:42:12,689 --> 01:42:13,109
saying?

1674
01:42:13,830 --> 01:42:15,990
Yeah, well, it is a
recommendation is a

1675
01:42:15,990 --> 01:42:18,960
recommendation to a point within
the podcast, isn't it? So it's

1676
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:23,610
telling me where I should start.
Because so many podcasts have so

1677
01:42:23,610 --> 01:42:27,480
many things in it, we chat tries
everything on pod land. And

1678
01:42:27,510 --> 01:42:31,050
that's great, but it only takes
to a start of thing. But I want

1679
01:42:31,290 --> 01:42:35,340
to the way that we try and
promote our podcast is I take a

1680
01:42:35,340 --> 01:42:39,780
two minute snippet from the
audio. And I put that into a

1681
01:42:39,780 --> 01:42:43,920
headline or and I put it out a
social media teaser trailer. But

1682
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:46,500
that's not really what I want. I
want to be able to have the

1683
01:42:46,500 --> 01:42:50,250
users choose not me, as the
creator choose right thinks the

1684
01:42:50,250 --> 01:42:54,540
best. I want the user to say
this is the bit I recommend and

1685
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:58,560
take that out and share it with
their community. And then that

1686
01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:01,350
drags more people in, because I
don't know what everybody who's

1687
01:43:01,350 --> 01:43:03,450
listening found most
interesting.

1688
01:43:04,439 --> 01:43:08,129
Yeah, as he is the
recommendation XML

1689
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:10,290
chunk, it's a little different.

1690
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:14,550
It is different, but I want but
I wonder if it can go both ways.

1691
01:43:14,580 --> 01:43:18,390
But isn't this isn't this also
kind of the way I run chapters

1692
01:43:18,390 --> 01:43:21,300
with the external file, which is
unique to chapters actually,

1693
01:43:21,300 --> 01:43:27,180
because they're outside of the
RSS feed? And, and you know

1694
01:43:27,180 --> 01:43:30,750
what, this comes from hyper
catcher where you're listening.

1695
01:43:30,780 --> 01:43:33,120
This is an Have you tried that?
If you haven't tried the hyper

1696
01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:37,200
hyper catcher app, it's worth
ago, Sam, okay? Because Because

1697
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:39,930
you're listening, and this is
how I came up with the idea,

1698
01:43:39,930 --> 01:43:42,930
actually, you're listening and
like, Oh, crap, this is a great

1699
01:43:42,930 --> 01:43:45,360
moment, I'd like to tweet that
I'd like to do something in

1700
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:49,320
hyper catchers case, you tap it,
it says, okay, you can put in a

1701
01:43:49,320 --> 01:43:56,460
tag and a title and a URL. And
that goes into a back end, a

1702
01:43:56,460 --> 01:43:59,850
moderation interface. So you can
approve them. Because obviously,

1703
01:43:59,850 --> 01:44:03,210
there's some things just may not
want to have show up that people

1704
01:44:03,210 --> 01:44:06,600
tag or what they say. And so
that's the idea of community

1705
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:10,620
based chapters, which updates
throughout the lifecycle of of

1706
01:44:10,620 --> 01:44:14,910
the episode. If that's something
that would work in that manner

1707
01:44:14,910 --> 01:44:18,630
that you could you can basically
tag Well, you should be able to,

1708
01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:20,040
I guess you'd be able to

1709
01:44:21,210 --> 01:44:26,340
take that. Hmm, we'll see.
SoundCloud used to have Yes,

1710
01:44:26,370 --> 01:44:29,880
they did have that. Yeah, yeah.
And what it was great was that

1711
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,640
you can look at the whole
SoundCloud audio playback and

1712
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:36,240
see, actually the interesting
parts that people have tagged

1713
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:39,870
right and up and jumped to them,
which is just think this. Go

1714
01:44:39,870 --> 01:44:43,440
ahead. No, I just think there's
something in that whole thing

1715
01:44:43,440 --> 01:44:46,680
and I thought about this song.

1716
01:44:46,950 --> 01:44:51,120
So when you when you were you
get pod land, a technically

1717
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:55,350
would not matter what app you're
looking at, and you will see

1718
01:44:55,350 --> 01:44:58,050
that timeline you're talking
about, and it will show

1719
01:44:58,050 --> 01:45:00,900
everything this will be just
like YouTube's you to chat every

1720
01:45:00,900 --> 01:45:03,900
single time someone hit the
boost button, they could add so

1721
01:45:03,900 --> 01:45:06,090
they can boost and they can add
a message like, Oh, this is a

1722
01:45:06,090 --> 01:45:09,570
great job, great segment,
whatever it is, and then you and

1723
01:45:09,570 --> 01:45:13,830
everyone else can go back on
that timeline, and see all those

1724
01:45:13,830 --> 01:45:16,770
boosts and the comments that
each user put in and it would

1725
01:45:16,770 --> 01:45:20,730
work across all apps. Yeah,
that's what you want, right?

1726
01:45:21,180 --> 01:45:24,090
Yeah. Okay. You have two more
wishes. What else can we do for

1727
01:45:24,090 --> 01:45:29,850
you? Yeah, you rub the lamp,
Sam. You rubbed it. So you've

1728
01:45:29,850 --> 01:45:30,360
got to take

1729
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:33,930
the genie wishes. Okay. My other
wish then is to take you for a

1730
01:45:33,930 --> 01:45:35,940
beer when you're next in the UK
bar.

1731
01:45:35,939 --> 01:45:38,669
Brother. I would love that. And
likewise, if you're if you ever

1732
01:45:38,669 --> 01:45:43,619
find yourself in Austin, I miss
my friends in in the UK. I miss

1733
01:45:43,619 --> 01:45:47,699
my daughter too. She's just
across the pond. You got it. I

1734
01:45:47,699 --> 01:45:50,969
would love that. I would love
that. And I couldn't even come

1735
01:45:50,969 --> 01:45:51,779
to your local man.

1736
01:45:53,130 --> 01:45:54,930
Absolutely. Excellent. Yeah.

1737
01:45:55,410 --> 01:45:56,130
I know how to find.

1738
01:45:58,380 --> 01:45:59,130
Follow the money.

1739
01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:01,349
Follow the money to

1740
01:46:02,819 --> 01:46:05,879
really appreciate you taking
your your Friday evening, Sam. I

1741
01:46:05,879 --> 01:46:09,779
know it's you got to watch. So
you're now you missed dinner or

1742
01:46:09,779 --> 01:46:13,979
someone's pissed out? Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. So really appreciate

1743
01:46:13,979 --> 01:46:16,229
that. Dave, anything else for
you for the for the

1744
01:46:16,259 --> 01:46:19,559
before we close this board
meeting. I got something. I want

1745
01:46:19,559 --> 01:46:23,339
something for Sam. Sam, is your
ice cast for your radio? Is your

1746
01:46:23,339 --> 01:46:25,199
ice cast URL? Is that public?

1747
01:46:26,310 --> 01:46:29,250
No, but I can I will send it to
you happily.

1748
01:46:29,790 --> 01:46:33,810
Okay, cuz I want to we've got
some guys like Alex gates on the

1749
01:46:34,140 --> 01:46:37,770
mastodon. He's very heavily
working on trying to get a live

1750
01:46:37,770 --> 01:46:42,270
tag to try to build that
protocol. And I would love to

1751
01:46:42,270 --> 01:46:46,740
use that. That stream as a test.
Host. No worries.

1752
01:46:46,740 --> 01:46:49,920
I will send it to you after this
conversation. Beautiful.

1753
01:46:50,130 --> 01:46:52,740
Okay, beautiful. Gentlemen,
thank you very much. This has

1754
01:46:52,740 --> 01:46:56,910
been a great board meeting.
Yeah, David. Well, I'm off next

1755
01:46:56,910 --> 01:47:01,530
week. I haven't had a vaycay and
we're having not done shows for

1756
01:47:01,530 --> 01:47:06,060
15 months, so and I am still a
newlywed technically. So my

1757
01:47:06,090 --> 01:47:09,570
beautiful bride and I are going
to go away. We do have a great

1758
01:47:09,570 --> 01:47:14,880
pre recorded interview with you
with Ryan Gentry. Who's the does

1759
01:47:14,940 --> 01:47:17,490
well. I asked him for his title,
but he's the business

1760
01:47:17,490 --> 01:47:21,330
development guy at lightning
labs. But he's also one of the

1761
01:47:21,330 --> 01:47:24,900
driving forces in the in the
entire industry. And he's a

1762
01:47:24,900 --> 01:47:28,500
super great connector and a very
fun guy and an austenite to

1763
01:47:28,500 --> 01:47:32,370
boot. So we have a pre recorded
show with him. I think you'll

1764
01:47:32,370 --> 01:47:35,160
enjoy that because we had a good
time for sure. And that doesn't.

1765
01:47:35,939 --> 01:47:37,739
podcasting 2.04

1766
01:47:38,040 --> 01:47:41,850
episodes he's 31 we'll be back.
And we hope you join us for the

1767
01:47:41,850 --> 01:47:42,300
board meeting

1768
01:47:42,300 --> 01:47:43,650
till then. Bye Bye, everybody.

1769
01:47:59,069 --> 01:48:03,839
You have been listening to
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1770
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