Podcasting 2.0 for March 6, 2026, episode
252.
Joy Robber.
Well, hello, everybody.
Welcome to your Friday, the first one in
March.
This is Podcasting 2.0. This is where
it really goes down.
We may take months to talk about something,
but we do get stuff done here.
That's for sure.
This is the official board meeting of the
Podcasting 2.0 group.
We are in fact the only boardroom that
doesn't need insurance to go through the Hormuz
Straits.
I'm Adam Curry here in the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama, the man who will
code on your master for at least an
hour.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only, the inimitable, the
pod sage, Mr. Dave Jones.
What exactly does inimitable mean?
It means you can't be imitated, I think.
Inimitable, inimitable, inimitable.
That makes great sense.
That's what I think.
Yes, inimitable.
You cannot be imitated.
You are one of a kind.
When they made you, they broke the mold.
Well, it says the definition is so good
or unusual as to be impossible to copy.
So it doesn't necessarily mean good.
It just means hard to imitate.
Yes.
That could be for many reasons.
Good or unusual.
I think both are good.
I think unusual is also good.
I like you because you're good and unusual.
Boneless chicken wings are also unusual.
Well, they're fake, obviously.
I don't like them.
They're fake.
It's not an actual chicken wing.
Speaking of fake, let's just get into it.
Let's just dive into it.
A lot of talk about AI tags, AI
tag, tags, AI tag.
I got a little worked up in the
shower.
You got worked up in the shower about
AI?
Sorry for the visual.
No, I'm listening to the power and I
guess RSS.com put an AI tag into
their feed.
Yes, that's correct.
They used the TXT, the podcast colon TXT
tag, which is a completely underutilized tag.
It is one of the best tags.
It's a Swiss army knife of tags, baby.
You can use that thing for anything.
It's not in the toolbox.
It is the toolbox.
James said something that irked me.
I'll just get it out.
Of course, I'm not really mad at him,
but he said, well, you know, the podcasting
2.0 folks, they'll take months to figure
it out.
Uh, voice, voice, voice, exaggerated voice, exaggerated.
And I'm like, my first response is like,
excuse me, bloke.
Um, without podcast index and the namespace, you'd
spill these, still be stir circle jerking on
some slack group.
So shut up.
But then I thought, no, I won't say
that.
You'll say what you weren't.
That's what I was going to say.
All right.
Instead, I thought the better of it.
And, uh, you know, cause it's like, you
know, it was already in the podcast group
and all that.
Look, building is the only thing that matters.
RSS.com build something.
They threw something out there.
I've really been thinking about AI in general
when it comes to podcasting and this whole
thing, I'm not quite sure who this tag
is for.
Um, nobody, nobody is by the way, that's
why nothing has happened until this point.
Yeah.
I mean, and, and what is RSS.com's
issue with AI podcasts?
Do you know what the issue is?
What, what is, what is, I'm hearing myself.
Are you, are you really loud?
I'm crinkling a wrapper.
Okay.
No, I mean, I just got to adjust
the gate a little bit.
I'm coming back.
No, you're good now.
You're good now.
Okay.
Well, cause you talk to the boys over
there all the time.
Yeah.
Well, come on, spit it out.
The reason that nobody has implemented anything on
the AI front yet is because we, nobody
knows how to do it, but, but this
is because let's, let's def let's define at
least what the problem is because defining the
defining the content is the hard is impossible.
This is, this is why nothing has happened
until, until this point.
And I think, all right.
So the, the reason nobody has put in
an AI label or whatever, uh, AI warning
or something is that you don't every podcast
now, not everyone, obviously I'm being hyperbolic, but
so many podcasts use AI.
So what do you, what are you saying
when you say this podcast was made with
AI?
I mean, every, like it could be part
of it.
So this is what I'm trying to figure
out.
It's like, who, by the way, I like
what rss.com did.
I'm just saying that that's what, but that's
what has held things up.
Go ahead.
No, you're, you're, you're making the same point
I'm trying to make is who, who is
the tag for and what, what is the
problem?
And I can kind of, you know, we
have the, uh, the iTunes explicit tag.
And that to me kind of means like,
yeah, it's for Apple's audience, you know, and,
and there's stuff in here that they may
not think is appropriate for their audience.
And they got in there early, they got
a namespace so they can have that.
And I put no agenda to explicit, nothing
else is fine.
But the AI tag, to me, it sounds
like somehow the, the advertising industry is trying
to protect itself from getting ripped off.
And that's why this is so important.
I don't really get it.
And I'll tell you something else.
In general, I don't think listeners care.
If they hear something that they find informative
and, and it happens to be in an
AI voice, either they're insulted right away and
won't listen to it anymore, or they listen
to it.
A friend of mine who shall go unnamed,
big Hollywood producer, produce a big, big Hollywood
producer.
I should go unnamed.
Everybody knows who it is.
Right.
And, um, so he calls me, he says,
I've got this, I've put this thing together.
I got to talk to you about it.
I think it's patentable.
So what you got, he says, well, um,
that's when, you know, it's not is when
they say right away, right away.
And, and, and this guy has done major
Hollywood productions, hates Hollywood.
He's, you know, he's bored.
He's trying to find something to do with
his money, with his life, with his time.
And so he's been token burning with open
claw and he's a tinkerer.
He's a real tinkerer.
So he's got this thing to work and
he programmed it so that, um, you type
in your, your area code, your zip code,
and it automatically creates a daily podcast of
news, hyperlocal news.
That's of course he was trying to get
my attention with the hyperlocal, hyperlocal news says,
and my neighbors love it.
In fact, when, when I, when I forgot
to, to create a new episode, cause I
guess it's still kind of manual.
Um, he said, my neighbors are calling me
like, Hey, where, where's my update?
Where where's my, you know, it's a very
small, uh, like municipality in California, Northern California.
And so first of all, I had to
explain to him how it was not patentable.
I said, by the way, welcome to what
everybody's doing, uh, to, although, yeah, for a
million dollars, you might be able to patent
some process, but I don't think it's worth
it to, uh, do you think people are
going to pay for this or, uh, you
know, and we ran through some business ideas.
It all came back down to, well, if
you can create a thousand zip codes and
you get 10 people listening, you know, then
you might have a business.
If you jam two ads at the front
and the back, I said, I don't know.
I said, I, so I, I basically talked
him off the ledge and told him he
should be creating great Christian movies and TV
shows.
I turned that thing on a dime.
It was great.
But the point of the story is that
people don't care.
They're not insulted in general.
If you listen to most, um, news readers,
radio people, they don't talk like humans anyway.
Hey everybody, it's 77 degrees at seven o
'clock right here.
W H T Z U 100.
That's how the radio talks.
When you listen to the news, you know,
it's like, uh, even from his opponents and
very little debate about what might be coming
next, it's, it's not human.
This is why podcasts can be so beautiful,
but it doesn't mean that that kind of
cadence and that kind of talking is invalid
or that people reject it out of hand.
Um, and I I've just been considering this
more and I have to say, I do
a lot of AI work for our, uh,
your town live streaming stations.
I've come up with some pretty good voices
and it's announcery voices.
You know, it's just announcer people doing promos
and they sound like radio announcer people.
It's not a, it's not like, you know,
you wouldn't fall for it in a conversation
per se, but I don't see where the
issue is.
What is the problem?
And if people want to listen to the
Aust, the South Austrian Metro traffic update four
times an hour, um, on a podcast, well,
why not?
I really, I've, I've, I failed to see
the problem other than that.
There are people in the podcast industrial complex
who feel they're getting pushed out by robots
and that all of this stuff floods the
zone.
And people have more attention for other things
that they think that they somehow are privileged
to do backslash.
I, I agree with part of what you're
saying and agree and disagree with another part.
And that's again, why this is difficult.
The yes, there is value in the thing
that you're talking about in traffic, whether these
things are, are very automatable.
And when you think back to the nineties
and you're, you're listening to, you're on the
way in from driving into work from your
home and you hear some dude on the
radio giving you traffic and weather on the
tens.
Well, you, that guy might as well be
automated on a, on a tape.
You have no idea.
There's no, for all you know, he could
have been, they may have been, if nothing
changed since the last time he did it,
he may just run the same thing again.
There's no, I don't know, there's no inherent
problem with automating information delivery in a verbal
way.
In fact, here in, in Fredericksburg, Texas, just
to prove the point, three times an hour,
an automated, an actual automated voice comes on.
I'm pulling it up now for you.
And it happens to be me.
And this is what me says.
And then it didn't work.
I don't know why.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I have it muted.
Have the tab muted.
Here we go.
It's 70 degrees on main street in Fred,
you know, and, and every 15 minutes it
just pulls the right file into the spot
and plays it.
It's a robot.
It's me, but it's a robot.
Yeah.
Now extend that by 20 minutes and you
have a podcast.
Yeah.
I mean, any, but my point is anything
can be a podcast, but that's a different
question than should you, should that's a different,
that's that question that stands on its own.
But then there's also a secondary question of,
should you actually disclose it or label it?
Or should it be tagged in some way
for who?
Well, let's think about, think about Mastodon Fediverse.
There is, there's a way, there's a way
with which you, a built-in way to
label this account as a bot.
And that's, that's actually pretty helpful because you
can now take some tech, a technical approach
to, um, you can know a thing about
the source that you otherwise wouldn't know.
And that at certain points in time may
become important.
So it's not about whether it's a sort
of good, bad moral distinction that's being made.
It's about whether or not it's valuable to
know that.
And I think sometimes it is because from
merely from the standpoint of being transparent so
that people know that the voice they're listening
to isn't a real person.
That can be valuable in and of itself.
If, if somebody tells me that it's, if
I, if, if there's something about this, if
there's something in the podcast app that shows
me that this particular podcast I'm listening to
is purely automated AI generated, I just, I
think it's pretty, I think I like that.
I like that I know that in advance
and I'm not wondering whether or not it
is.
Because now you, what's happening I think now
is this, there's disorientation that's happening all over,
really all over media in general.
I heard it this week, we were talking
about some stuff in the office and one
of the guys that was talking in this
group of people, he said, oh, I saw
this thing the other day.
He's like, I don't know if it's AI
or not.
It probably is.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like there's a real sense of, you hear
people say things like everything's AI now and
blah, blah, blah.
People, there's a real distrust and a sense
of, of that people are being like almost,
I give up.
I can't tell what's real anymore.
And so I think from that, in that
sense, it is good to know if for
no other reason than it's just a good
thing.
So I, from that standpoint, but then you,
then you go further and you say, okay,
well, you know, the people that are going
to be doing abusive things with this content,
actually trying to somehow game the system in
some way with ad fraud and these, if
you, now, they're never going to tag their
content because that defeats their whole scheme.
Well, you're right there too.
And that's the whole reason that this has
been such a difficult process is because that
is exactly what people, what that's been the
circle everybody's been going through for, for months
on this same question is, should we tag
AI?
Well, if you do the people who you
really want to, it's all in the sense
of filtering.
Okay.
This, this is actually a good point.
So you brought up the explicit tag, the
explicit tag.
Why would you need to know that?
And the only reason why you can think
of that you would need to know that
if it's explicit or not, and let's, let's
set aside for the moment, let's set aside
what explicit means.
Let's just, that's a whole separate question.
Let's just say that, let's pretend, let's imagine
a world in which everybody agreed on what
is explicit and what is not.
That's not reality, but let's just pretend for
a moment that it is.
You have a thing called the explicit tag.
There's only one reason you put that in
there.
Yes.
You want to know my reason?
Why?
I want it to be attractive to young
people.
Okay.
I'm not kidding you.
When you put a label on it like
that, I'm like, oh, kids will love this.
They'll jump right in.
Ooh, it's explicit.
I need to listen.
That's exactly what I, what I thought.
That is okay.
That is interesting because it's the flip side.
It's basically still the same thing.
It's still one reason.
Some people are going to want to not
listen to it and others are going to
want to listen to it.
It's a flag and it says, it's a
flag that lets people know, here's what this
is so that you can make a choice
to listen or not to.
That's the only reason that tag exists.
And we all know where it came from.
It came from, what's her name?
A pivot lady.
Oh, I don't know if it came from
her.
I'm kidding.
I don't think it came from her.
Yeah, but she teed it up though.
She did.
So that's why that thing exists.
So there's a correlation directly over to the
AI tagging.
Again, the only reason it's going to exist
is to try to help you make a
choice.
And in both circumstances, the, your decision-making
process is highly complex.
You know, I'm, I'm with you and I
really don't care, but I think you, you
go down a road because if we propose
the AI tag, I'm going to propose the
Indian accent tag, the urban black voice tag,
the annoying white woman liberal tag.
I want all kinds of stuff that I,
oh, I just, I don't want to be
offended by listening to it.
And, oh my gosh, because it's a different
kind of voice.
That's all that it is.
Sure.
Because there is, it can be, and if
you said it's AI voice, yeah, you know,
okay.
Because that's what we're talking about.
We're not talking about if it was, the
script was generated by AI, you know, any,
any of there's AI elements or bits to
me, it's useless.
I'm okay with it, but I guarantee you
in six years from now, we'll be talking
about some other tag that we want because
people, because people need to be able to
make a choice because it's too dangerous for
them to hit play and make a decision
within 30 seconds.
Chad F said for me, explicit means don't
listen to it around your kids, but see,
it doesn't.
And that's the whole difficulty of this because
there's some things that are marked explicit because
they say, you know, they say shit in
it, but explicit tag on the podcast, but,
but I'm putting it in right now.
I'm doing it right now.
Yeah.
You need to tag info, explicit.
Okay.
The, but, but we watch movies that have
that in it.
Of course.
This, this is, this, this is a bottomless
pit of debate when you get into this
and the same exact thing it is, is,
is it is with AI because we've seen
all kinds, we, we endlessly debated whether or
not to put a, uh, a expansion of
the, of the explicit tag into the podcast
namespace that would allow all kinds of granular
definitions of what it meant.
This podcast contains cussing.
This podcast contains talk about sex, cigarettes, cigarettes,
language, violence, self harm, every permutation of this.
And, and, but that's all based on filtering.
And this, this is the same thing here.
I don't have a problem with it for
one reason.
Somebody in the industry themselves decided to do
it.
I'm with you.
If they think it's necessary, then there must
be a good reason in their mind.
And I will support whatever that is.
I'm with you on that.
I wouldn't mind knowing, but again, as I
said, I don't care.
I just don't see the point to me.
The point is I'm just trying to figure
out the Genesis of it.
Where is it coming from?
You're coming from, well, you want a choice
because you, Dave, if you know, before you
even hit play, you want to know if
that's a robot.
That's what you're saying.
You want that.
No, no, to be clear.
That's not what I'm saying that, that I'm
saying that, that I, that I think that
is the point.
I don't think so.
I think it's coming from a monetization place
where people don't want robots taking over.
And my point is then do a better
podcast.
Seriously.
Well, I don't think it's that simple though.
I don't because, because your ability, your ability
to do a great podcast cannot compete with
AI's ability to generate 50,000 podcasts a
day.
But that doesn't matter because I don't see
the 50,000 podcasts.
Does it contaminate search?
This is another reason.
Yes.
I think it contaminates search.
Is that the number one way people get
caught, get podcasts?
No.
Fundamentally, no.
People hear about a podcast from their friend.
They see something shared on social media.
The discovery mechanism in podcasting is inherently, and
by design of decentralization, not, basically not there.
And this is the only reason why people
go to YouTube because, oh, I can get
discovered.
I could go viral.
Good luck with that.
That's, that's not how podcasts have been, uh,
you know, did serial, did, did that all
of a sudden hit because of search?
No.
It became a hit because people dug it.
They talked about their friends.
It was on, you know, they posted in
groups about it.
So, okay.
You know, I, I just don't see, I
just don't see the pro, I don't, again,
I don't, I'm not arguing the point.
And I think we should immediately make a
tag for AI, make a tag right away.
Please put it in.
I will advocate for it.
But I'm, if anything, I'm sick and tired
of other people, not us, other people trying
to figure out when it should be labeled
AI.
Well, whenever you feel like it, when is
it explicit?
Whenever you feel like it, make the tag,
put it in.
Good to go.
What has happened, and this is, this was
a very interesting case.
Um, we have, uh, oh, we have a,
like a friend group.
Oh, I hate saying this.
So we've got this friend group, uh, and
we did, it was like a church-based
group and we all did a, like a
thing together as couples.
Don't get any ideas, you perverts.
Um, and, uh, it's not, not a key
party.
Uh, in the basket, throw it in the
basket.
Throw it in the basket.
And so I stupidly, I said, Hey, you
know, we should, we have a, a text
group for the men and a text group
for the women.
I'm like, no, that's dumb.
Let's just have one text group.
Dumb.
I was a big mistake on my part
because...
You're the green bubble.
Well, I love being the green bubble and
ruining it for all of a sudden it's
like, Hey, there's two groups now.
How did that happen?
Like, that's me.
That's my green bubble.
Um, but you know, so the women they're
always posting stuff like pictures and memes.
And so I had to silence it.
First of all, like, ah, I can read
this once a day and just catch up
and see what's going on.
But then one of the women posted a
song like, listen to this girl.
She's phenomenal.
Sing sister.
Um, you know, click on it.
And I knew it right away.
I knew it was going on right away.
AI.
AI from Spotify.
And, and, and all the women are like,
this is great.
This is fantastic.
And then, you know, actually Tina jumped in
and said, this is AI.
And then they all hated it.
And I'm like, wow, this is really interesting.
So you really loved it.
You love the singer.
Uh, you, you love the song.
You loved everything about it.
You're everyone's hearting it heart, heart, heart, heart,
heart, boom emojis.
But then the minute you hear it's AI,
oh, I'm so disappointed.
But why did they like that?
So the question is, why did they like
it to begin with?
They liked it.
I mean, that's why.
I mean, why do people like artificial flavoring?
I mean, you know, I don't, I don't
think that's the case.
I think they like it that they liked
that song because they, because in their mind,
they envisioned a human being who was able
to accomplish something amazing.
No, I understand that.
But when they found out that it was
a lie, they were robbed of their joy.
Yes.
So why, but because it was never about
the song itself.
It was about what the human behind the
song was a bill was able to produce,
but the world is fake and gay.
Everything is imaginary.
When one person reads a book, they have
images in their head and it's fantastic.
And the other person goes, it sucks.
And I'm not drawing a conclusion.
I'm just pointing out that somebody really loved
a piece of quote unquote art.
And then when they were told that was
AI, they didn't.
And all I saw was disappointment.
And I'm like, well, that's interesting.
They really loved it until they found out
was AI.
And then it sucked.
Whereas they might've sung along to it in
the car, they'd be dancing to it.
So if you found out that, if you
found out, is it less valid?
Yeah.
It's less valid.
A hundred percent.
It's less valid.
If you found out that, um, Usain Bolt
was a, was a robot and not a
real human.
Yeah.
That would be like, lots of children would
be disappointed because they, they feel because it's,
that's a false dichotomy.
I think it's right on equivalency.
I don't, I think it's a monochotomy.
I think it's absolutely on point.
Well, anyway, let us please immediately draft an
AI tag to get it out of TXT,
make it official and end the conversation already.
And, and, and no rules.
If you feel that your content is explicit,
check the explicit box.
If you feel your content is AI, if
you feel like you're cheating the listener, then
click the box.
Well, I think this doesn't have the, the
pro the examples that have been brought up
so far that that we're kind of throwing
back and forth.
I don't think is really the point.
Now it may be that that may be
the point from something like Wavelake's side, where
they feel like they're just getting overwhelmed by
AI produced content.
Now that, that, that might be their issue,
but I think the issue that RSS.com
finally had to take an action on, and
I believe that this will also spread to
other hosting companies, especially ones that have a
pure free tier and not just a free
trial.
I think that the impetus behind this is
that if you take away the financial incentive,
then the slop goes away.
Not, not, not completely, but okay.
Right there.
Define slop for me.
The, I can't, it's like defining porn.
Thank you.
But I agree, but what I'm, but, but
from there, but let me, I don't have
to define it to, to describe the process
that is happening because what a good, a
good example of this is if you look
up in the index beta Finch, it's two
words, beta and then space Finch, F-I
-N-C-H.
This is a AI generated podcast of earnings
calls.
And let's, let's have a listen.
Oh, there's a whole bunch of them.
Oh, there's different languages.
Okay.
So we have, all right, let's just listen
for a second.
Am I going to get an ad?
At Arizona State University, we're bringing you world
-class education.
SpendQuest is a free to play social.
Payment purposes only.
Nothing we discuss should be considered investment advice.
Always do your own research and consult a
qualified financial advisor before making any investment decisions.
Thanks, Alex.
And wow.
Where do we start with these numbers?
Broadcom just delivered what might be the most
job.
Okay.
All right.
So I got you.
Yeah.
You, you get the feel for it.
Yeah.
And so this is an example of what
Inception AI is doing, Inception Point, all the,
these, these are popping up all over the
place.
You create a, an AI podcast of some
publicly available information.
Like with Inception Point AI, a lot of
times it's just Wikipedia and stuff like that.
Take those, take those things, shove it in,
create a podcast, stick it up on Spreaker
or some other free tier dynamic ad insertion
platform.
And then you just get the Delta.
Yeah.
Of the, of the ads.
That's right.
That's a business model.
It is the business.
It is, but it's not hurting my life.
Sure.
But, but I'm saying, but, but you're not
the target for this tag.
The target for this tag is the platforms
themselves.
No, no.
I'm going to tell, what, what, what platforms?
Spreaker, RSS.com, the platforms that have a
free tier.
Host, hosting, hosting companies.
Hosting companies with a free tier, because what
they will, what they will do is they
will put into their terms of service.
We're going to tag your content.
If you don't tag your content, we'll throw
you off.
No, what, no, I guarantee you that's not
what's going to happen.
What's going to happen is we, this, and
this, I think is what it comes down
to.
I'm not saying anyone is thinking this per
se, but I see into the future.
Usually about 10 years into the future.
This is why I'm not a billionaire.
This is true.
So hold on a second.
Let me, uh, where's my harp?
Oh, I'm supposed to have a harp.
Oh, man.
Oh, here we go.
Harp.
Seeing into the future.
Platforms, as you call them, hosting companies will
auto tag.
That is where this is headed.
They may not do it now, but they're
going to auto tag everything with AI.
And I think that is inherently dangerous to
go down that road because then with AI
itself, you can start auto tagging all kinds
of content.
It may start with categories first, but then,
and, um, then it will go to, um,
language, certain terms.
This is, this is a dark road.
Let me come back from 10 years.
Let me just come back.
Yeah, come on back.
I can barely see you right now.
I don't know why it's here.
There we go.
That's because that's ultimately what advertisers and the
podcast industrial complex want is for the hosting
companies to auto tag AI quote unquote slop.
And even that under what you're saying is
fair game.
It's tagged.
That's fine because I still may check it
out.
You know, I'm not going to be thwarted
by it because like, oh, it makes sense.
You know, a, a daily podcast about the
S and P 500, the top 10 specifically
in my language.
Yeah.
Maybe it's a AI, but I'll listen to
it.
I'll subscribe to it, but it's the beginning.
And once, once the systems are in place,
then it's going to be used for other
stuff.
You know how this works.
I disagree.
And it's probably, it's probably surprising that I
do because I, I generally, I generally am
amenable to the idea that there is a
slippery slope with cat with categorizing content.
But the reason I disagree in this case
is because we've had the explicit tag around
forever and they've never auto tag.
So what you know, but what you're saying
is, cause let me just, let me just
go back to your argument.
Okay.
That it is the hosting companies who have
free tiers who are pissed off.
I'm just, I'm using that as a term,
maybe wrong that people are using their free
tier to make little bits of money at
a time.
No basis of it.
No, I don't think that they're pissed off
about that because if they sell it, but
I don't think they're pissed off about that.
I think that there is a fear that,
that, that the X, that the exploitation here's
look, this is the way I see it
as best I can tell, and I could
be completely wrong, but this is the vision
I have in my mind of, of the,
of what is happening right now.
And it's this same picture, mental picture that
I have.
That is the reason why I said in
December on, uh, on my predictions on the
power show that 2026 was going to be
a complete flood of AI podcast, because you
can imagine that there is, whenever you put
up a podcast from a, there are ways
to get some downloads that are not real.
And what I mean is, I mean, automated,
the IAB specs is, are, they're not perfect.
They cannot filter out all of the, all
of the noise, all of the download noise.
And it is also not, um, a coincidence.
It can't be a coincidence that at the
same time we've seen the rise of AI,
of, of dynamic ad insert, insertion supported AI
podcasts.
We've also seen a huge increase in the
number of browser downloads.
These things have come together.
And what I'm saying is that the AI
use of hosting platforms, free tiers through dynamic
ad insertion is taking advantage of the fact
that there are going to be downloads of
shows that are not real, where those are
coming from.
I don't want to speculate.
Oh, I have an idea that it'll, because
you are making my point.
I would like to tag every podcast that
comes from a host with a free tier.
No, I would, I've been asking for a
possible jump.
Free, free tier.
Yep.
No, I've been asking for that.
That's, I've been asking for that for a
long time.
Where's your, where's your pull requests, brother?
Where's your issue?
I'll do it.
I'll put it in there.
I think, I think every hosting company that
has a free tier should tag a feed
that is free as free tier.
Now that would give me some information like,
oh, this is a freebie.
90% possibility it's crap.
I guarantee you there's a tag proposal from
me in the repo somewhere that with its
exact proposal, it could be found.
Okay.
Because your problem is still monetary.
It's exactly where I started.
The whole problem is we have free tiers
and we have fake downloads.
And that is only for the podcast industrial
complex.
A couple of easy ways to stop that.
One, stop giving away free tiers.
It's like logical.
But you know, Spotify anchor probably won't do
that.
So maybe we should just label every anchor
feed as a free tier possible crap.
Well, the, the, I think from there, the
reason I said that they're not pissed off
about it, it's not a matter of being
pissed off.
I think what the issue is, is they,
they are trying to get ahead of the,
of the curve and say, there is abuse
going on here.
Clearly there's some percentage of abuse that's happening.
Oh, it's a, it's a big percentage.
See John Spurlock noticing he's noticing.
Right.
And so if that's the case, you have
to get in front of that.
Otherwise you look, you're not, the advertisers will
stop using the DAI.
And the free tier goes away because that's
the only way you can run a free
tier is with ad supported.
Why do they run free tiers?
To get, I think it's to give everybody
access to a bigger, I mean, to.
No, it's to get more with Spotify and
that.
No, no, it's for the advertising.
It's to get people in for free and
then convince them to use your DAI from
megaphone or Libsyn or whatever you're doing to
use your inserted ads.
That is, so the problem is self-created.
I don't know.
I just, yeah, I just, I think this
is a self defense mechanism from, from, from
falling on their own sword, from falling on
their own sword.
You give away a free tier to get
people to make some money on advertising.
And then you're, you're pissed off when people
scam your system.
And again, I'm not against the tag.
I'm just saying that's the real problem.
But I don't, I don't think maybe I'm,
maybe it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but
I don't, I'm really trying not to what
I don't think it's the hosting platforms that
are pissed off.
And I don't even think it's the ad
platforms that are pissed off yet, but they're
going to be.
And I think that is the problem.
Yeah.
A monetary problem.
But at some point, somebody has to prove
that a download is real and you can't.
And that's the issue.
No, but it, you get, you get a
long way when an RSS feed costs at
least $1 a month.
You know, this is, and by the way,
this is, this is nothing new because Bill
Gates proposed a payment system for email because
it would stop spam.
Of course it would.
So that's not going to happen.
You know, so we, we've, we've seen this,
we've seen this movie before.
But you cannot convince me that hosting companies
give away a free tier for no reason.
They give away a free tier because they
either have an upsell for real people or
they have an ad play.
And I think most of them have an
ad play and, and, and now they're mad
that people who they expected people to come
in, get a free tier, do your, grow
your show.
I can hear Todd Cochran in my mind,
grow your show, and then we can help
you get ads.
I don't, I just don't think that's, I
don't think that is the most likely explanation.
I think the most likely explanation for why
hosting platforms or hosting companies create free tiers
is because they're trying to compete with YouTube
and Spotify.
But how?
Both offer free, free content.
Dave, okay.
How are you competing by giving something away
for free?
There's got to be something that they feel
is in the future.
Well, no, but you, you, you compete by
keeping that, by keeping that creator from going
to a different podcast or from going to
the other platform.
Where's the money?
I'm just looking at it from a business.
In the ads.
Oh, oh, okay.
There you go.
But it's very, it's so little.
I mean, you're talking about, it's nothing.
No, but, but this is, this is the
problem.
I'm just getting to the root of the
problem and thank you.
We got here.
The problem, we did.
The problem is, and Spotify is probably the
worst offender, is that Spotify has free hosting
and they have an ad system that you
can sign up for clickety click.
I've been, I'm good.
And so if I can create 10,000
feeds and I can do at least one
download of each of those podcasts per day
with two ads, now I'm making some money.
That's the problem.
And so everybody is competing on that same
playing field by ads and a free tier.
And they don't want someone else to go
to that other place because they'll be going
off of their advertising system.
And on top of that, it's now being
gamed because of the weak metric of downloads.
There's your problem.
It's not for people to make a choice.
It's not for, you know, it's not for
a warning or it's none of that.
That is the core problem.
As long as we recognize it, then maybe
we can really get some real solutions in
place because I find it incredibly important that
we protect podcasting from overflow.
There's all kinds of things, but look at
where the problem is coming from.
You know, so you have companies who are
creating the problem and then want an industry
-wide solution, which is not actually the root
of the problem.
I mean, it is going to fix it.
It will fix the problem.
How will it fix it?
It won't fix browsers downloading that stuff.
Look, I'll tell you exactly how to fix
it.
Because if, and here's the sequence of events.
The hosting company with a free tier changes
their terms of service to say, if you
produce a show entirely from AI, soup to
nuts, the whole thing is AI, you must
tag it as such when you post.
Why would they do that?
But, but, but, but here, but hear me
out.
They changed their terms to say, you must
do that.
And that way, if you don't, they will
kick you off the platform.
And then that flows through to the advertiser.
And the advertiser can choose, can make a
check mark in the ad server that says,
I do not want my ads served in
any AI-tagged packets.
Okay.
So let me just run that back for
you.
So, because people are being disingenuous and that's,
this is just trying to get to the
bottom of what's going on.
So, and I think you're probably right.
The idea is, because you've said terms of
service three times now.
The idea is we make it look like
this is a big industry push because people
don't want AI slop, but really we want
to change our terms of service to say,
if you don't, if you are producing an
AI podcast, whatever that means, and you don't
tag it, we will auto tag it.
So you won't get ads.
I don't think they'll auto tag it.
I think they'll just kick them off the
platform.
Oh, kick them off the platform.
Remove it.
Okay.
They'll just remove it.
And, and that helps their bottom line.
How?
The thing is, it's a scam.
Everybody knows downloads is a scam.
Well, yeah, totally.
So, but the same way Spotify, Spotify, if
you, they have the free anchor tier.
And if you, if you post music on
there, they will just remove you.
They kick you off immediately.
Sure.
It's against their terms of service.
And why?
Because they have financial deals with music.
Right, right.
It's a very, it's all financial.
But I don't, I don't think it's all
financial though.
I think, I think life is financial.
Sure.
But in, in that sense, and, but I'm
saying, I think it's too, there's, there's a
dual reason here.
Yes, financial for sure.
Not arguing that at all, but also the
people do not like the AI slop just
in the boardroom while we've been talking.
We've had multiple comments saying that's crap, you
know.
Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop right there.
Because I produce a lot of AI content
and I do not get that pushback.
You're, you're making, you're making a determination about
the, the world of audience in general, based
upon the boardroom.
I play end of show mixes on the
no agenda show.
And I play those three mixes before we
start the show is for people to kind
of get into the mood.
And all the troll room does is AI
slop, AI minus, minus, AI minus, minus, it
hurts me up.
You know who doesn't complain?
The listeners.
Not one, not once have I received an
email from somebody saying, wow, those songs at
the end of the show, they really suck.
Not once.
The most recent, I love arguing with you,
by the way, it's probably one of my
favorite things to do on a Friday.
I love you so much that you are,
you are just, it's too bad John C.
Dvorak is going to pull through.
You would have been great.
You would have been great for no agenda.
So stay healthy just in case.
I'm good.
I got your back.
The most recent head of the Microsoft recently
announced a new quote CEO of their Xbox
division.
They kicked the old guy out and they
brought in this lady who used to be
the head of or used to be like
the CFO or something of Shopify.
It caused a huge uproar.
Everybody, you know, everybody's like, she's not a
gamer.
All the gamer people are mad.
But one of the things she said when
she first got there, because there's this big
debate right now in hardcore gamers, and these
are techie people, there's a huge debate right
now in the gaming world about whether AI
should be in games or not.
Now I could care less.
I'm not into the gaming stuff, but that
is a huge debate that's going on.
Some people hate it.
And she made that she one of the
first things she said when she came, she
said a bunch of things that first day,
but she made a very clear statement.
We are not going to put a bunch
of AI slop in our games.
OK, those were her words.
OK, and what my point by saying that
is she would not say that if there
was not a real thing in real in
the real world with a mass number of
people.
That AI slop.
Is a is a problem, but what you're
saying you produce, you produce, you said you
said I produce a lot of AI content
and nobody complains.
That's different from what is colloquially referred to
as AI slop.
Is it?
It is.
You find that that S&P report to
be slop.
You brought it up as an example and
you said this is you didn't say it,
but you implied that that was AI slop.
I what I said was this is an
example of what AI slop means in the
boardroom immediately said, yeah, but that's slop.
But but no, I think that that is
just saying it's an AI voice.
It's AI produced.
It doesn't take away from the validity of
people wanting to consume that.
There is never said it did.
But OK, so anything with an AI voice
is slop.
Let's just know I would never say that.
Well, I would never.
But just like you said, I'll know it's
porn when I see it.
There is no CEO of podcasting.
Again, I'm going to I'm going to I
want to move away from that part of
the conversation back to the core of the
problem.
But wait, before you move away, though, let
me I think I think this is I
think this is pretty critical, though.
The there is a percent and because this
is what I'm saying, this is why I
say I don't think it's purely a financial
motive.
There is a perception in the real world
that there is that the that the Internet
is being flooded with low quality AI generated
content.
Yes.
And that that is a problem and because
people don't like it.
Now, how you define it, I that's complicated,
but it is a very real perception.
And I think that's why companies also want
to tag it, because they don't want their
plat, their brand to be associated with what
other people perceive as slop.
OK, OK.
So one man's slop is another man's porn.
So just to go back to the core,
because you really laid it out and I
understood it and I don't want to be
distracted because, yes, when I look at my
X timeline, I know that there's bots producing
slop and I know that they're they're doing
all kinds of stuff to to get me
to interact.
And then the bot grows.
I understand that.
And there is the concept of the dead
Internet is very real.
And we've had bots, bots slop on email
for four years, really.
It's only getting worse.
The minute you remove the why we need
to look at the financial incentives.
Why is there still email spam?
Because a percentage of it works.
And whether it's a scam or whether it's
an ad or whether it's to get someone
to donate.
What has happened with email has significantly impacted,
just as an example, the No Agenda newsletter,
because now AI is scanning everything and is
making decisions.
This is slop.
This newsletter from these guys is slop.
Of course, it's not correct because the people
who subscribe to it want to receive it.
It gets thrown to junk.
It gets thrown to promotions.
It gets there's a different determination, whatever the
temperature in the data center is, and the
AI makes a different decision.
Go to the financial incentives of slop.
I'll use your word slop in podcasting.
It is a financial incentive.
So remove the financial incentive.
The problem will go away.
The financial incentive has been triggered by free
podcast hosting from one company, Spotify.
That's who everybody's competing with.
That's the problem.
That is the core problem.
So I declare a fatwa and jihad on
Spotify.
Blow up their data centers.
Whoa, sorry.
I went out of control.
That wasn't really me.
And at the bottom of the core of
the problem is we have a crap measurement
system that everybody knows.
Everybody knew it was phony.
We all had to, not we, but the
whole industry had to give money back to
advertisers when we had the iOS 17 apocalypse.
And oh, I'm sorry.
Oh, well, we didn't know.
We didn't really understand that the downloads were
phony and people were listening.
You all know it.
Come up with a better system.
Instead of spending an hour talking about this,
let's come up with a better system.
Oh, you don't actually want to because when
the truth comes out about how many people
are actually listening, you're going to be poor
again.
This goes back to the story that I
heard from a hosting company where they saw
spikes in their in downloads for a particular
show.
And contacted that show saying this, you know,
some of your downloads are show abnormal behavior
like it looks, we just want you to
know, I don't, we don't know what's going
on, but it looks like it'll go up,
then it'll fall off, then up, then fall
off and bug.
Come to find out they were using a
traffic generation company.
And the way that that company works and
they, they advertise as being able to boost
your rankings in Apple podcasts and the way
that this company works is they will use
all kinds of click banners in mobile games
and that kind of thing to get to
incentivize people to go and follow you in
Apple podcasts.
Which gives you a temporary bump in your
traffic.
These are people that never intend to listen
to your podcast.
They don't give a crap about your podcast.
They are just there to get their next
loot crate in their mobile game or whatever
this is.
And so from that standpoint, this it's non
-organic, it's a temporary bump.
And there was a, there was an agency
that was helping this show.
And they, when the hosting company explained, you
know, Hey, these aren't real users.
They, excuse me, these aren't real listeners, subscribers.
This is just a temporary thing, you know,
from this service.
And it's in that kind of thing.
What they were told was, oh, well, it
doesn't, we don't care.
We don't care whether it's real or not
because the hosts of the show, they love
it when they see these big numbers.
So the hosts of the show just want
to see big numbers.
They do not care.
That's all they care about.
Big numbers.
And the people managing the show get to
say, look, we gave you big numbers.
So everybody's happy and everybody's happy.
And the downloads aren't real.
That's the way this thing works.
And that's not with a free tier.
That's with a paid, that's with a paid
hosting account, you know?
And so it's all fake.
It's all fake.
It's crap.
So the only thing that's happened here is
the smart, smart spammers, hooligans, have come up
with a decentralized way to scam the system.
And the decentralized way is create 10,000
free accounts, get a couple of downloads each
on content that it takes almost nothing to
produce, and we're making money.
That's what's going on.
And I think that we can tag and
bag all we want, but ultimately the problem
is in the metrics for advertisers.
And there have been many proposals and no
one ever really wants to jump up on
it because of what I said before.
Because hosts love big numbers, number go up,
but if we really knew what was going
on, we'd have 2 million podcasts in the
index and they would be great and real
and you'd get rid of the whole problem.
And it's absolutely technically possible to create an
architecture where we can get real listen numbers
minute by minute.
Sam Sethi has been doing a lot of
work on that with TrueFans, but the industry
doesn't actually want it.
Yeah, for that exact reason that I just
explained, because it's so much easier to get
big numbers without real stats.
So again, the podcast industrial complex is the
problem.
They are creating the problem.
They're the problem.
Agree.
Okay, so screw those guys, just saying, just
saying.
But anyway, at least we're talking about the
real issue.
Well, I just, I don't have a problem
with the tagging.
I don't either.
I just think it's futile, it's meaningless.
It's just as meaningless as the explicit tag.
Yeah, it's meaningless, so let's do it.
Actually, no, no, no, I take that back.
It's not as meaningless.
I think this is actually going to be
a real signal because there is financial motivation
behind it.
I hope so.
I hope it works.
There's actually a financial disincentive to tagging explicit.
This as a financial incentive, I think this
is actually will, I think this will spread,
and I think it will spread very quickly.
You know, there was a hosting company, who
shall not go named, who was blocking all
Linode servers, downloads from Linode servers by IP
address, IP address range.
Wouldn't you know they stopped doing that?
I happen to know this.
Because, yeah, because I asked.
All of them?
I don't know, but that's...
Because I got one server whitelisted.
They were, they were probably, there's probably a
lot.
I think they probably had to because...
Because there's so many browser downloads.
We got to open it up, guys.
No, I think, I think that, I think
that they, I know why, I worked with
them on the process of trying to block
some of this stuff.
It was, they were trying to block the
Vietnamese poker scammers from posting a thousand podcasts
a day.
It was, it was coming from everywhere.
I'm just talking about accesses.
Downloads, downloads.
Well, there's no, there's, it's hard to block
that from the CDN.
Of course it is.
It's just, there's so much energy, literal energy
and money wasted with scammers.
Oh, it's horrible.
And the reason is because it works.
Because you can make money that way, whether
you're an agency, making money off of your
client, making them happy.
But still, you're just wasting resources.
All the, it feels like most of what
I do these days, whenever I get some
coding time on the index.
Wasting resources.
Is, is all about just trying to protect
ourselves from scammers.
I know, I know.
It's all it is.
I know.
It's abuse control.
Yeah.
Well, I, I would, I really would like
to propose a free tier tag.
And if anyone ever picks up on that,
that would be great.
And we can just label all of Spotify,
a free tier tag.
So I can filter it out.
That was, the anchor was super easy because
I didn't even need a tag.
It was anchor.
Each tag is what it is.
Yeah.
So anyway, was there anything else going on
in the world?
I had stuff on the list.
We're, I've got some stuff on here, but
I really probably want to, we'll talk about
it next week.
Cause we, I love this conversation.
I, I thought this was very helpful.
It was helpful for me, at least.
Well, I think that this goes along with
it because actually since we're on the AI
tip here, I saw a guy this week.
What day was that?
That was like Wednesday.
I was getting in the car, coming back,
going back to the office from my lunch
break.
And a guy jogs by and he's like,
Hey Dave, this is a guy I have
not, he's in my neighborhood.
I haven't seen him for probably, I don't
know, a year.
And he's a lead, he's a lead developer,
or I guess he'd be senior, senior engineer
at a company that does, a big company
that does like stationery and greeting cards and
all kinds of stuff.
And they have a very strong e-commerce
platform.
And so I was, he, he brought up
AI.
He's like, Hey, you playing with any AI
coding?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, sure.
So we started talking about it.
And I think I'm starting to see from
that conversation, I think I'm starting to see
how this AI coding thing is kind of
going to play itself out.
Okay.
So I said, I asked him, I was
like, well, have you fired all your developers
yet?
Because you're just going to have one guy
in the basement where they'd be a banging
away at Claude.
And he was like, no, no, no, no.
He was laughing.
He's like, no, he's like, we, we mandate
all of our developers to use AI agents.
And he said, we are actually hiring more
developers.
Oh, oh, of course.
I, I have no doubt that the AI
revolution will only increase job opportunities.
But it's the, it's this thing that he
said though, that was sort of where the
light bulbs went on.
He said, because I asked him, I was
like, oh, that was interesting.
You know, it's not the narrative that's out
there.
When you hear about all this stuff, it's
a, you know, a block square or whatever.
Jack Dorsey firing his 40% of his
staff.
Yeah, sure.
Sure.
Exactly.
Oh, AI is taking over their jobs.
That has nothing to do with AI and
everything to do with their stock prices.
One third what it was a year ago.
Yep.
Exactly.
So he said that the reason that they're
doing, they're mandating the use of AI is
because they have such a huge backlog of
issues and feature requests that their staff just
can't get to.
He said the list of things that they
have to do, just their tickets in the
developer system just keeps getting longer and longer
and longer.
Sure, sure.
And he said, he said for the first
time using these AI agents, they've been able
to actually make progress on that endless to
-do list.
And so like they can actually deliver things
in a timely manner now.
And so now they've basically taken themselves from
a black hole of hopeless get issues.
A black hole of hopeless get issues.
Yeah.
And now they're able to like actually do
stuff and keep pace.
You know, I'm so happy with Gemini.
Gemini now does something that XAI did a
long time ago.
Because the way I code is I say,
here's my code.
I paste the whole Python script.
I want to add this.
It gives me back a Python script.
Now it used to do this sequentially in
the browser.
When the browser would get up to like
three gigs, you know, the browser's struggling.
Now they pop open a code window and
then it goes away.
When you've copied the code, it goes away.
And as new code, it pops it into
a separate, a separate frame kind of.
So it's not filling up the entire browser
history.
And I created an AI, I call it
the AI co-producer.
I'm sorry, it named itself the AI code
producer.
The AI co-producer.
And so I now manage an entire streaming
station just by typing in what I want
it to do.
So for instance, hey, add this song at
the next hour after the weather.
Add this RSS feed from this devotional every
other hour at about 15 after the hour.
And it does all of this stuff.
What was interesting is at a certain point,
so it's also doing promos.
And nobody heard those last week, which was
great.
Because I, you know, I played the promos
and I didn't record somehow, which is interesting.
But the system had said, well, why don't
we use the Google 1.5-Pro for
doing the promo scripts.
And we'll use, you know, the faster model
for just managing the stuff.
Scheduling and all that.
Holy crap.
I think that I, in quotes, I wrote,
I now have 55 guardrail rules.
Now I understand how these companies operate.
Now I understand why Anthropic doesn't want autonomous
weapons run on their stuff.
Because these things are still just language interpreters.
They have to build all the tools and
they got to put all these guardrails in
so it doesn't go off, quote unquote, off
the rails.
Dude, it would straight up lie.
It would say, oh yeah, here's your hour.
And it would show me a beautiful list
and show me the things I'd planned.
I go look at the YAML file.
It's not in there.
Oh, and this was going on for two
days.
I'm like, why are these guardrails failing?
And it turns out it was the model.
The model, the fast model is really only
good for having a quick little chat, nothing
else.
Yes.
You need the thinking model, the reasoning model
that goes through five.
And even then, it doesn't lie as much,
but even then it does stuff.
I mean, it just out of the blue
does something complete reverse.
It's all, it sucks.
It is so horrible.
I've got it to, I mean, I can't
give this to customers.
I've got it to a place now where
I'm ready to test it myself on my
own real server in real time.
But it is, these things have no zero
zilch, absolutely nothing, bottom of the barrel, like
where the whale shit lives.
There's no intelligence whatsoever in these systems.
It's all the tools you build.
I can imagine what Claude Bot must be
doing.
I mean.
No, there's no telling.
It, you know, it's insane.
There's no intelligence.
It just does stuff because it interprets one,
you write the exact same sentence twice.
It does two different things.
Unless you give it all these tools and
guardrails.
You need to give Claude a try if
you haven't.
Claude Code.
You know, the reason, here's why I haven't
tried Claude.
Because Google has access to songs, videos, and
video transcripts.
It has, and Google search.
It has phenomenal access to external data sources.
That's the only reason why I haven't tried
Claude.
X is crap from beginning to end.
And because it's built on Twitter, you know,
it's like, of course.
So you could use Claude to build.
I need to, we need to Zoom call
one day.
And so I can show you my Claude
process.
I think it will change the way you
do stuff.
So what I've been working on this week
is a project for the day job.
Is there's a whole bunch of invoices that
we need to extract a bunch.
We need to extract data from like the
invoice date, the invoice number, the vendor, the
amount.
All these kinds of things, just basically extract
these data points from it.
And these are this like 1500 pages of
invoices.
And so you sit down to design a
thing that will do this.
And you know, immediately, these are all different
vendors.
All their invoice formats are different.
They don't look anything alike.
And so this is going to be a
difficult task.
The first run of just feeding it to
an LLM is a disaster.
And yes, it will give you things.
A lot of times it will give you
a bunch of stuff, but that's not the
right way to do it.
I think the learning curve in all of
this stuff is, is, is learning when to
bring in the LLM.
To do a specific, a very specific thing.
Yeah.
Because like what, what we, what we ended
up doing is using existing OCR software.
We're using a package called Apache Tikka that
will suck all the text.
It will OCR a PDF and suck all
the text out of it.
You take that text and you pre-process
it with a whole bunch of language filtering
and munging.
Stuff like, yeah, exactly.
Of course.
You pre-process it, get it down to
a very predictable format.
Then you feed it to the LLM and
say, and with a, with the right prompting
and say, this is what I'm looking to
get out.
But even then you have to use the
correct model, just like you're saying.
Cause we, we, we tried 10 different models
and finally we hit the one that worked
for our use case was Gemma3 and we,
you, we kept going down because initially you
would feed it an invoice and it would
be like, it would take 10 minutes to
chug through it.
So the danger, so there's two, two observations.
First, the danger is when they upgrade the
model or deprecate your model, and here's a
better one, it's going to screw you over.
And you know, that's coming.
The other part is you can't give this
to a user.
You have to do it.
And it's great because it's more work for
Dave.
It makes your work easier, but you have
to sit.
I mean, I, when I'm using my, my
production tool, I'm looking at the log.
I'm like, oh, I see what you're doing.
Okay.
Oh, I see exactly the mistake you made.
You know, so I can do it really
well, but I'm afraid if I put this
in hands of a user, you know, what,
what's going to come out of it?
Funny enough, it was, here's just one anecdote.
So I was trying to get it to
do a, uh, a promo and it kept
failing.
And then it kept doing it wrong.
And you know, cause it's like sound effect,
intro, sound effect, clip, sound effect, outro, sound
effect.
That's the format.
And it was doing it all different.
And then it inverted the music bed and
made that a hundred percent and the voiceover
75%.
And I literally typed in explicit tag, fuck
you, all uppercase.
And then boop, it just did it.
It was, it was the most amazing thing
for a moment there.
I'm like, hmm, wait a minute.
There's some intelligence there after all.
But, but I think that's kind of the
bottom line is like, if you know what
you're doing, you can create some amazing things,
but you gotta know what you're doing.
If you don't know exactly what you're doing,
you're going to be disappointed.
We'll see that.
So Eric, you know, Eric PP, he was
like, you know, you need, you can host
Gemma locally.
And yeah.
And that's exactly what we're doing.
Cause this is private.
Yeah.
This is private information.
So you can't send that to the cloud.
So we're, we're running, you know, local LLM.
Yeah.
And that's the way to go.
And you can have complete control and you'll,
once you have the model downloaded, you can't,
nobody will take it away from you.
You got it forever.
No, I'm with you.
And that's, I've got my, uh, my Nvidia
card here.
And, uh, you know, hopefully it's been kind
of a rough week here at, uh, at
the house with John and everything.
I should probably let everybody know, uh, who's
listening that, um, that, uh, John C.
Dvorak had his double bypass surgery this morning.
Uh, he came through fine, still critical.
Um, you know, he's, he's on machines basically,
uh, but he is expected to pull through.
So, uh, it's, it's, you know, that shook
me more than I thought it would, to
be honest with you.
I'm like, you know, I'm surprised that it,
yeah, I was surprised that it didn't.
Yeah.
I was, I was expecting you to be
pretty rattled by it.
Yeah.
Well, initially I, I was going to, okay,
crisis mode, what are we going to do?
You know, and I'm talking more to Mimi
and the kids and, you know, making them
cause the, you know, the Dvoraks are a
funny bunch, man.
You know, once, once, once everyone's kind of
cool, they literally said, okay, we're going to
send out a newsletter on Saturday and we're
doing a special donation.
The give John a reason to live donation.
I'm like, you guys are amazing.
You guys are amazing.
Like John will be so proud.
And if he doesn't make it, we still
get the money.
Exactly.
It's a win-win people.
It's a win-win.
Um, anyway, I don't know how it came
up with.
So yes.
So I'm, I am setting up my own,
uh, my own local gear here because that
without a doubt, hands down is the future
of this stuff.
Decentralize it, run your own stuff, probably within
two years, just sit outside the data center
and be able to pick up a couple
of nice NVIDIA GPUs.
Um, cause everything will have to be refreshed
and a new bunch of money will come
through.
And, uh, and I don't mind running a
generation behind because if it's just me, I
think it'll be pretty decent.
I don't need to run a data center.
Well, that Gemma three, the Gemma three, 12
B model.
If all you need is to interpret some
text, the smaller models will do great.
They're just fine.
And they'll fit in a 24 gig Ram
system easily.
And so if you just need a small
model, something like Gemma three, 12 B is
a very good model.
And it's super fast on even small systems.
I mean, like you can, you can do
like a whole page of text and try
to like do some data extraction.
It'll process that thing in like three seconds.
Yeah.
And it's all local and you can run
it like you could pick up, you know,
max studio with like 96 gigs of RAM
or something like that.
Yeah.
That would smoke through.
But that is clearly the future.
It is.
It's so clear to me.
And, uh, and that I look very much,
I very much look forward to, um, some
of these Quinn, uh, text to speech models
are pretty good.
Uh, I got my, uh, my free, uh,
uh, Spotify accounts, got a little business I'm
sitting up here on the side.
I got a couple of Linode servers running
browsers.
So, uh, uh, my financials, uh, future is
secure.
Become a podcast, download spammer.
Yeah.
AI.
Yeah.
You just charge for it.
Yeah.
Take that.
Yeah.
And take the skim off the top.
Yeah.
Should we thank some people, Dave, since, uh,
we've, uh, we've almost gotten to our max
here.
We got a couple of nice boosts today.
Um, and I know that, uh, Eric PP
is working on, uh, an upgraded version of
helipad, I think that will, that will include
LN URL boosts.
Uh, thought that he shipped a release.
Oh, I haven't.
Oh, I have to look and see if
it's on the start nine yet.
Um, let me look at the get hub
mastodon.
But I, I, I never have to log
into that machine.
I love my start nine so much.
That the, the, the get hub mastodon bot
has changed my life.
It's good, isn't it?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I love looking at it.
Oh, this is really, it's like, it's like
a, like a, like a sweeper coming through.
Just, we're sweeping everything up here.
People were taking care of everything.
Yeah, here it is.
Heli, uh, the helipads from Eric PP helipad
0.2.2 is now available on unroll.
The start nine version will be out soon.
This is three hours ago.
All right.
So we don't have to new version ad
support for fountain podcast guru, boost box metadata,
lightning invoice support, LN URL boost backs, nice
triggers based on sender name, app name, and
man.
And so it'll do key send and LN
URL or, uh, yes.
And yep.
And triggers for media instruments and open sound
control.
Oh, well, you are a hero.
You're a hero.
This is killer, man.
Dreb.
Scott comes in with one, two, three, four.
He says, I'm an it infrastructure, jack of
all trades guy, network firewalls, and much more,
but not a script writer.
I can read scripts, but I'm not a
programmer.
AI has helped me get more complex things
done faster.
However, I seem to be spending a lot
of time iterating with AI to get what
I need.
Yeah.
I'm using chat GPT and glean AI.
Yeah.
I mean, that's just look at how images
are made.
If you, if you say make an image
and you're not happy, you want to adjust
it.
You might as well just do your old
prompt again.
And it's like the old Google.
I'm feeling lucky because iterating is not a
thing.
Uh, there is a 10,000 sat boost
from, uh, Dreb Scott.
Baller at him.
He said, join late, go podcasting.
See loss VT.
See loss VT with a, uh, with a
row of ducks, uh, two, two, two, two.
He says about last time, how would that
new pod ping hive replacement thing turn out
for app devs?
I'd like that.
I can just have a script sleep and
wake up every three seconds and check the
newest high block.
I don't want to actually maintain long running
programs.
Doesn't match my stack.
I forgot the name already.
Gossip over some rust thing.
Yes.
It's yeah, that's it.
That's what it's called.
Gossip over some rust thing.
It's a Gossert is the new acronym for
it.
Gossert gossip over some rust thing.
So do you want to answer that?
Well, it's not a hive replacement.
Hive is still going to be, you know,
I tried to make that clear last week.
Hi, this is just a, this is an
additional backend.
So hive will still continue just like it
always has.
And then there'll be a gossip backend as
well that will broadcast over gossip.
And then we will add archiving to the
gossip as well so that you can go
and grab it.
Spurlock's working.
He's worked out a way to do it
on the AT protocol with a personal data
store.
The AT protocol.
That's isn't that good.
That's BlueCry.
Yeah, exactly.
BlueCry.
And then we'll go.
And then also, you know, we'll put it
on object storage with a, you know, where
you can just go to something like, who
knows, archive.podping.cloud slash current.
And it'll give you the current, the current
block.
And then you can walk things backwards.
So it'll, it'll, it'll be just as user
-friendly.
A key factor in podping is always you
don't have to rerunning a server to be
able to find the stuff.
Yes, that's it.
So that will not change.
1701 from Lycia, Martin Lindeskog.
How about verified podcasts via podcast index, podcast
hosting companies in the podcast standards project?
How about no?
No, no, not going to happen.
And Martin Lindeskog comes in again with Tonstoffel
best premises, which of course means there is
no, there's no something free lunch.
I forget what it is.
What's the acronym?
T-A-N-S-T-A-F-L.
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
There we go.
Yeah, there it is.
Hey, Franco Solario coming in from Castamatic.
Of course.
1,000 sets.
Testing CoinOS wallet on Castamatic via network, Noster
wallet connect.
And they'll be, it worked.
He had a bit, he's got a big
release coming.
Yeah.
But I had a big release the other
day.
It's on the poop tracker.
You know, ever since I mentioned that, I've
got all these follow requests on the poop
app.
Hey man, I want to follow your poop.
No, no, no.
I'm not going to respond to your, I'm
not going to let you follow my pooping.
That's just for the, for the kids, for
the secret group.
Another row of ducks.
22, 22, Silas VT.
Podcast 2.0 group taking way too long
and making every single tag way over complicated
and useless since whenever it started 2020 or
whatever.
Yeah, nice.
Yeah, exactly.
It's kind of, kind of how I took
it.
Kind of how I took it.
Coming in from Castamatic, Sir Brian of London,
4,547 Satoshis.
I can boost again.
Castamatic has allowed me to connect to my
own node.
Now there's a hack.
Yeah.
Sending a best president, oh, 4547.
Sending a best president in history boost for
President Trump, dragging Israel into war and making
me wake up three times a night to
take cover.
That's funny.
Salty Crayon with the triple seven from Podcast
Guru.
Howdy, Adam and Dave.
Update on more LLMs coming to the Department
of War, formerly known as the Department of
Defense.
Grok is next on the table.
Copilot is now on the third wave of
signups and ChatGBT is in the coming soon
choices.
And we just had customers that never knew
about Windows Update.
What a time to be a dude named
Ben.
Praying for JCD and my sanity.
Salty Crayon.
I'm sure Department of War is a mess
with all those LLMs. Another Martin Linda Skog
from TrueFans420.
I like the episode title Pod Snuggle.
Do you remember Dr. Snuggle's TV series?
Yes, of course I do.
Absolutely.
221 from S3F from Seth.
S-E-S-3-T-H, Seth.
Love how Adam pretty much told James what
he thinks.
LOL.
Love the banter and the spice.
It's probably Sam Sethy.
He's sneaking in with some, like, TrueFans fake
account.
Sirth.
Okay, all right.
Couldn't decode it.
Franco Solario again from Castamatic5150.
No note.
We've got 330...
Wait, that's no agenda.
No agenda.
Podcasting 2.0. 333 from Eric PP from
CurioCaster.
Test 6.
Eric PP from Fountain.fm. Test 5.
Um, 20...
Oh, there's the delimiter.
So you're up.
I got some pod...
Excuse me, some PayPals.
Cameron Rose, $25.
Thank you, Cameron.
The Content Creators Accountant, $50.
Nice.
Yeah, that's a subscription.
PodPage.
That's Brendan and the gang over there at
PodPage.
I've heard in pod news that they're doing
things.
$25.
New Media.
This is Martin Lindesco.
Goes $1.
Thank you, Martin.
Appreciate that.
Joseph Maraca, $5.
Thank you, Joseph.
Oh, Oscar Mary, $200.
Thank you very much, Oscar.
Oscar wants to talk to me about music.
It's tough, man.
It's tough.
The music is tough.
That's where the slop became a real problem.
Yeah, no, it's almost lost at this point.
Well, unless you got to pay.
If you got to pay for stuff.
I mean, the same way the Nogent and
the show mixes.
It's just lost.
It's not.
The art is lost.
Although, did you see the one we had
for this past episode?
I did.
That was funny.
Wasn't that great?
Breaking.
Yes.
You go ahead.
Yeah, go ahead.
No, break me.
It says Breaking.
JCD has a heart.
Hilarious.
Gordon at God Caster.
What?
$500.
What?
We paid ourselves.
Now, Gordon.
Go ahead.
No, it's a no.
Go ahead.
It's a no.
Adam and Dave sending a boost from God
Caster.
Home of the digital radio dial for Christian
Broadcasting.
Grateful for the work you're doing for open
podcasting.
Just doing our part to help keep the
servers running.
Gordon.
I am so happy that he did that
on behalf of God Caster.
And I really hope it is on behalf
of God Caster.
Because without the podcast index, there would be
no God Caster.
That's right.
So well done.
We're eating our own dog food.
Yes.
Well done, Gordo.
Thank you.
Let's see.
Oh, yeah.
And we got some boosts.
Yes, thank you, Gordon.
And let me sort this so I can
make some sense out of it.
There we go.
Anonymous.
True fans.
4785.
Thank you.
Another anonymous.
4785.
And that's it.
We're just a good comic strip blogger.
All right.
The delimiter.
22,000.
Sats.
Nice.
Through Fountain.
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.
Today, I want to recommend a podcast called
The Audacity to Podcast.
Where Daniel, quote, gives you the guts and
teaches you the tools to launch and improve
your own podcast for passion and profit.
P-R-O-F-I-T.
That's popularity, relationships, opportunities, fun, income, or tangibles.
Ooh, I like that.
Its website is www.theaudacitytopodcast.com.
Yo, CSB, AI Arch Wizard.
Yeah, I got to get in touch with
him.
He wants to do an AI Arch Wizard
episode with me showing how I vibe code.
Oh, do it.
I want to see how you vibe code,
too, because it sounds horrible.
It's actually fantastic.
Running the same Python script through a prompt
over and over again sounds terrible.
It works so well.
I can speed you up so much.
You know, I might have to do a
speed test with you because...
The superpowers plugin for Claude code is a
complete game changer.
You mistake me for a coder.
I mean, here's literally what I did yesterday.
So the same Gemini Pro model that I'm
using for the co-producer recognizes a problem.
So now I've got it.
OK, I've got a problem here.
And I say, hold on, I'm going to
take you over to engineering.
And I copied the log and I put
it into the Gemini chat.
It's art engineering.
This is what the co-producer said.
And it's like, OK, well, we'll fix this
over here.
It was amazing.
I'm having a conversation.
It's beautiful.
It's a beautiful thing.
Ship it to the correct department, please.
I have to do this little segment every
single time because Spurlock loves it so much.
I bet.
He thinks it's his favorite new segment on
the 2.0 podcast.
It's Adam's vibe coding stories.
Yes.
I mean, how many times did he just
clinch his fist and rage at the sky?
No, I don't know.
No, I mean, he's seeing what it can
do for for nincompoops.
It's pretty good.
Nincompoops.
I'm a nincompoop.
I'm not a coder.
All right.
Do we have any any monthlies or we
get them all in that first batch?
That's it.
All right.
We got it.
Thank you all very much for supporting the
podcast index.
It is of great importance that we continue
to fund this.
So we keep the machines worrying.
None of it goes to Adam or Dave.
It all stays within the podcast index LLC
and is kept there for just keeping everything
running.
And you can go to podcastindex.org.
At the bottom, there's a big red donate
button if you want to send us fiat
fund coupons.
And now that the fun is back and
boosting and the helipad is going to be
upgraded, keep those boosts coming.
We love it.
We love seeing that.
And all of that stays on our node
and eventually becomes valuable.
And then devalues and valuable and, you know,
whatever.
We just provide liquidity for everybody.
Brother Dave, thank you so much, man.
Thank you for arguing with me.
I love doing that with you.
And I think it's productive.
I don't know if anyone found it entertaining,
but you sure won't get that from those
AI numbnuts.
Let's dive in, shall we?
Yeah, let's do this.
Time for a deep dive on the Denny's
menu.
Board meeting, boardroom.
Thank you very much for being here.
We will return next Friday with more of
your podcasting 2.0 boardroom.
Until then, have yourselves a great weekend.
Bye now.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0.
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.
Go podcasting!
Everybody's happy and the downloads aren't real.