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Podcasting 2.0 for May 16, 2025.

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Episode 221.

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Two guys, one mic.

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Oh, yeah.

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It is sunny in Philadelphia.

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And kind of nice in Texas, too.

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I wonder what it's like in Alabama.

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Hello, everybody.

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Welcome to Podcasting 2.0. This is the

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official board meeting of the future of podcasting.

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And we can tell you exactly what podcasting

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is, trust me, and what it isn't.

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Yes, this is the only boardroom that doesn't

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need a free jet from Qatar to travel

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at warp speed.

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We got it all self-propelled.

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I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill country and Alabama.

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The man who instantly recognizes a download bot

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when he sees one.

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If you say hello to my friend on

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the other end, the one, the only, Mr.

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Pox himself, Dave Jones.

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It's been rainy here.

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Oh, no.

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Really?

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Very rainy.

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Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

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We're in a pattern.

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We're stuck in a pattern.

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Oh, that's golf stuff coming up that you

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guys get, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We had a shoot.

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We went from Monday.

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Let me see.

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Monday, it was in the morning.

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It was about 55.

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And then now it's 102, 105.

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Like what just happened here?

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That's crazy.

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That's crazy.

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It hit us not as hard as it,

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you know, never, it's never as bad here

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as it is in Texas, but it was

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like, yeah, it was so nice and beautiful

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last weekend.

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And then like today it's like 90.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But it's going to dry.

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It's going to cool off though.

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We're going to have a nice little, I

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don't know if y'all are going to

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get any of it, but we're going to

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have a nice little shot of cool air

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coming in.

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I don't know.

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I don't know what's going to happen.

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I've been inside, man.

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I've been inside.

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I've been, I've been vibe coding and I'm

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doing a good job.

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I'm happy.

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I'm a happy man.

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You you're the, the pep in your, in

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your step is back.

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Is audible.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Well, do you mind if I just.

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Last week you were just depressed.

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No, I was, I was beyond depressed.

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I was, I was hurting.

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I was crying.

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I wasn't, I was not feeling good.

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I was physically just hunched over.

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Tina looks at me, she says with a

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hump, with a hump, she says, are you

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grumpy today?

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It's so weird to hear you grumpy because

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you never hear it.

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I know.

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No, you, you just hide it so well.

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No, but that's not even hiding.

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I'm, I'm normally just super chipper, super happy

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chipper kind of guy.

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That, that is literally what I am now.

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I would like to give a brief update

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on this week and vibe coding.

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Just everybody knows where we're at.

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I'm sorry.

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I know that everyone's really impressed with it.

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And, uh, and I need to thank a

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number of people, yourself, uh, Oscar, Mary included

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many other developers who emailed me and said,

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yo, what you're going through is what it's

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about.

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It doesn't matter how you're doing it.

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It doesn't matter how you're doing it.

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What you're going through is what it about,

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what it is, what it's about.

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And once I took that on and once

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I realized that this stuff that I'm using

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is really just a plow, it's no more

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than a plow.

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I've got to look behind me, make sure

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that the tracks are straight.

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It's not wobbly, that the blades are sharp

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because the intelligence is me.

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And once I took on that role and

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I kind of, you know, I, I looked

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at what had happened and I stepped back

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and I saw all the problems.

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Cause what you get into at a certain

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point is error, copy, paste, go error, copy,

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paste, go, just get in this loop.

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And then you're not even paying attention to

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what the, what the, what the box is

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telling you.

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And you're not, you know, you, you stop

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even looking at logs.

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I go, whatever.

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I just did it.

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He throw an error.

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I didn't throw an error.

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I threw an error.

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I do it again.

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I got it working.

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And it is, it is dynamic.

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I'm really, really loving it.

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And I came up with a whole new

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method to, to fix everything.

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It turns out just as an aside.

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And this was me going through the documents,

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no help to grok.

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Liquid soap has liquid soap.

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Yeah.

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You, you piped into the, to the signal

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and you were like talking about liquid soap.

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I was like, Whoa, what you you've gone

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back to that.

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Well, that worked out.

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Yeah.

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I mean, liquid soap has a lot of

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issues.

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It's very difficult to program it's scripting language,

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but it does a couple of things very

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well.

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And it just streams, it streams metadata and

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it has all this tricky stuff that it

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can do.

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But I just ignored all that because no

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AI can figure out liquid soap.

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However, it has a telnet interface that will

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accept connections from local hosts of the machine

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that is running on liquid soap has a

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telnet.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And is the, one of the weirder things

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I've heard in a while.

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Well, it certainly works better than trying to

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figure out the API calls to this thing.

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Cause that's just broken.

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It returns parse errors when there's no parse

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error, you know, like line number one, which

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is the, is the shebang part line number

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one, character 36.

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There's no character 36.

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The amount of times I ran the dust

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to Unix command, come on, give me a

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break.

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It's just giving me a false error.

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Clearly it's just throwing something out there.

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And so that didn't help.

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But then once I discovered the telnet interface,

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I actually wound up programming a function inside

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of liquid soap that I call through the

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telnet interface.

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And now all my logic, everything I want

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to do, I just do with an external

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script, including updating metadata, reloading playlists.

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It's beautiful with a reliable, like Python, I

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get Python.

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It's reliable.

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I can just use this.

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It's easy to change.

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If it throws an error, it tells you

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the truth, the truth.

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I tell you the truth, the truth.

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It tells you the truth.

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I can't get past this telnet thing.

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Why?

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To me, that's like, I'm back in the

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old days of the internet, man.

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I'm telnetting into, into servers.

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This is before SSH.

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Did you set echo to on?

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You mean in the script commands as you

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type them, you know, that was, Oh no,

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you know, it has that built in.

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That's right.

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I remember that when you'd be typing, you

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couldn't see where you're typing.

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You couldn't see what you're typing.

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Echo on.

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This takes me back.

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I even did a, you know, a, um,

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uh, what was that command where you, um,

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you looked at someone's dot plan file finger,

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finger.

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Yes.

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I think I fingered the liquid soap.

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Oh, very soapy.

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Very soapy.

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Yeah.

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Do you need control?

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Uh, it's like control, right?

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Square bracket to exit.

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That's literally there when you log in control,

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right?

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Square bracket to exit.

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It still says that this.

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So you are, you are lit.

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You are telnetting to localhost.

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Yes.

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No, no, Oh, Oh no, sir.

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Don't you dare try and telnet to localhost.

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You had to be telnetting to one, two,

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seven.zero.zero.one port one, two, three,

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four.

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Because if you do, if you do localhost,

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you're going to get, Oh no, man.

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IPV six.

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No, I don't know where I'm going.

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And telnet's like, what are colons?

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I don't understand.

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What are you trying to reach?

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I'm not here.

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I'm not answering.

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So I'm, I'm super happy.

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I really am.

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It's running now.

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And you know, I'm, I'm, the thing is

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when you do this with a, I call

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it the feed to stream feed number two

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stream.

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Um, you know, the thing is, there's a

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lot of, there's a lot of there's by

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the way, people put stuff in.

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It's, it's as bad as RSS feeds when

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it comes to ID three tags.

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I'll just say the Sean Ryan show puts

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800 affiliate links and Amazon links in the

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comment and description fields of the ID three

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tags.

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We've got one megabyte images going in there.

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It's a mess.

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Try it.

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Try it.

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Creating this.

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What, what, Oh, I don't know.

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Is this at the hosting company level that's

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creating this, that's no, that's creating this Frankenstein

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monster.

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That's at the, at the, uh, making the

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MP three level.

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Cause you would think that the host would

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clean some of that hosting company would clean

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some of that out.

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Like, yeah, you'd think, well, I learned reject

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say, Hey, take this big old image out

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of there.

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So I just want to, you already know

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part of the story.

279
00:08:29,550 --> 00:08:31,309
I want to relate this because it relates

280
00:08:31,309 --> 00:08:33,809
to podcasting and the podcast industrial complex.

281
00:08:34,770 --> 00:08:36,110
So here's what I thought happened.

282
00:08:36,169 --> 00:08:37,169
Then I'll tell you what happened.

283
00:08:38,010 --> 00:08:40,710
So, um, I, this is a couple of

284
00:08:40,710 --> 00:08:41,289
days ago.

285
00:08:41,510 --> 00:08:44,090
And, uh, and so I have all these

286
00:08:44,090 --> 00:08:45,850
scripts working like, okay, now I want to

287
00:08:45,850 --> 00:08:49,110
easily deploy a new feed to stream instance.

288
00:08:49,330 --> 00:08:51,270
So just, it's running on the same box

289
00:08:51,270 --> 00:08:54,150
by saying, here's this feed URL, set up

290
00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:56,810
the directory, set up the parsing script, set

291
00:08:56,810 --> 00:08:58,830
up everything, set up the Mount point on

292
00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:00,170
ice cast, do all that.

293
00:09:00,830 --> 00:09:03,010
And as I'm testing that, and by the

294
00:09:03,010 --> 00:09:05,650
way, I have a cache set so that,

295
00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:07,770
you know, if, if you, if I'm hitting

296
00:09:07,770 --> 00:09:09,950
the same feed and I already have the

297
00:09:09,950 --> 00:09:11,670
MP three file, it's not going to download

298
00:09:11,670 --> 00:09:13,710
it again, even cross feed.

299
00:09:13,850 --> 00:09:15,810
So I have a beautiful little caching mechanism

300
00:09:15,810 --> 00:09:16,290
set up.

301
00:09:16,350 --> 00:09:18,390
So I didn't want to be downloading over

302
00:09:18,390 --> 00:09:19,010
and over again.

303
00:09:19,990 --> 00:09:21,870
Um, but of course, uh, you know, you

304
00:09:21,870 --> 00:09:24,170
get a feed with 47 episodes and it's

305
00:09:24,170 --> 00:09:26,050
all, these are Godcaster feeds.

306
00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:29,950
So it's all, um, episodes from different podcasts.

307
00:09:29,990 --> 00:09:30,510
Right.

308
00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:33,870
And so I, I set it up and

309
00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:35,970
as I'm testing this thing, part of the,

310
00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:39,390
uh, the template that creates a new instance

311
00:09:39,390 --> 00:09:42,030
for a new feed to stream sets a

312
00:09:42,030 --> 00:09:42,810
cron job.

313
00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:46,330
And so I'm testing, I'm testing, I'm with

314
00:09:46,330 --> 00:09:48,010
the same feed over and over again.

315
00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:50,130
And then, you know, okay, okay, whatever I'm

316
00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:50,730
done for the day.

317
00:09:50,750 --> 00:09:52,530
I'm going to bed or dinner or whatever.

318
00:09:52,990 --> 00:09:55,210
It turns out that my script of course

319
00:09:55,210 --> 00:09:57,710
had created, you know, like 80 cron jobs

320
00:09:57,710 --> 00:09:59,590
of exactly the same feed.

321
00:10:00,150 --> 00:10:02,550
And, and it was programmed to not run

322
00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:03,910
everything at the same time.

323
00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:06,670
So it basically was running the same feed

324
00:10:06,670 --> 00:10:10,370
parsing on a cron job every 30 seconds,

325
00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:12,310
just nonstop.

326
00:10:12,510 --> 00:10:14,870
So it's not re don't downloading all of

327
00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:17,950
the files, although, you know, with a, with

328
00:10:17,950 --> 00:10:19,710
a big feed like this, there's going to

329
00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:20,870
be something new pretty often.

330
00:10:21,050 --> 00:10:23,550
Certainly if it has Fox news hourly report.

331
00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:25,770
So the next, so the next day I

332
00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:27,790
come in, I'm like, holy crap, I'm blocked

333
00:10:27,790 --> 00:10:30,710
from every single service in the universe, including

334
00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:32,410
pod track megaphone.

335
00:10:32,510 --> 00:10:34,450
I mean, every, everything is blocking me.

336
00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:35,550
Every single thing.

337
00:10:35,570 --> 00:10:37,770
I'm like, what is going on?

338
00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:39,670
I said, oh, so I see the cron

339
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:41,810
jobs like, oh man, I, I created some

340
00:10:41,810 --> 00:10:44,770
kind of download bot, not really downloading everything,

341
00:10:44,970 --> 00:10:47,870
but certainly doing requests, doing head requests, et

342
00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:48,170
cetera.

343
00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:50,450
You, you, you thought you had sort of

344
00:10:50,450 --> 00:10:52,930
like inadvertently DDoS the hosting company.

345
00:10:53,130 --> 00:10:53,470
Yes.

346
00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:55,750
And, and now I'm like, oh crap, what

347
00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:56,370
am I going to do?

348
00:10:56,430 --> 00:10:58,350
And so I'm like, all right, I'm, I'm

349
00:10:58,350 --> 00:10:59,870
going to try a different IP address and

350
00:10:59,870 --> 00:11:01,130
I'm really sorry about this.

351
00:11:01,570 --> 00:11:03,050
So the, I would try a different IP

352
00:11:03,050 --> 00:11:05,090
address and same thing blocked.

353
00:11:05,170 --> 00:11:08,710
I set up a, a VPN on a,

354
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:12,390
on a nanode, you know, one gigabyte nanode

355
00:11:12,390 --> 00:11:14,150
in London just to make sure it's not

356
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:15,130
the same IP block.

357
00:11:15,410 --> 00:11:16,510
I'm getting blocked again.

358
00:11:16,570 --> 00:11:17,690
I'm like, what is going on?

359
00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:19,190
This is crazy.

360
00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:22,590
So I start diving in, turns out that

361
00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:26,610
in some iteration of my parser script, magically

362
00:11:26,610 --> 00:11:31,630
Grok decided to change my user agent from

363
00:11:31,630 --> 00:11:36,430
Godcaster app 1.0 to Python lib.

364
00:11:38,130 --> 00:11:38,570
Yeah.

365
00:11:38,750 --> 00:11:39,070
Yeah.

366
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:40,790
URL lib.

367
00:11:40,970 --> 00:11:41,250
Yeah.

368
00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:42,630
Python URL lib.

369
00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:44,310
I'm like, oh, okay.

370
00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:47,230
So I change it, obviously.

371
00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:48,650
And, you know, and I say, Grok, did,

372
00:11:48,770 --> 00:11:49,690
did you change it?

373
00:11:52,930 --> 00:11:53,730
It changes.

374
00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:55,150
It just says, no, you did.

375
00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:55,650
Oh yeah.

376
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:58,090
It just fell short of blaming me for

377
00:11:58,090 --> 00:11:58,390
that.

378
00:11:58,390 --> 00:11:59,930
So it had changed that.

379
00:12:00,030 --> 00:12:00,430
It's okay.

380
00:12:00,810 --> 00:12:04,010
And then immediately everything starts working again.

381
00:12:04,170 --> 00:12:06,130
I clear out the entire cast just to

382
00:12:06,130 --> 00:12:07,650
make sure downloads everything.

383
00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:11,170
Now, besides Buzzsprout, which we discussed on the

384
00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:15,690
previous show, which explicitly blocks anything from Linode,

385
00:12:16,430 --> 00:12:18,670
there's not a single service that I could

386
00:12:18,670 --> 00:12:19,190
find.

387
00:12:19,930 --> 00:12:23,350
And this includes some big hosting companies that

388
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:27,810
don't just happily accept a download bot as

389
00:12:27,810 --> 00:12:30,450
long as it has a user agent in

390
00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:30,930
it.

391
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:32,230
Right.

392
00:12:32,510 --> 00:12:35,570
And to me, this just means that I

393
00:12:35,570 --> 00:12:38,810
know I'm sure that your, your server logs

394
00:12:38,810 --> 00:12:41,510
and the IAB spec and that everybody can

395
00:12:41,510 --> 00:12:42,470
filter that out.

396
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:45,670
But can you really, you know, if I'm

397
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:48,110
just jumping around at different IP addresses, I'm

398
00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:50,330
pretty sure not going to do it, but

399
00:12:50,330 --> 00:12:52,590
I'm pretty sure with some effort, I could

400
00:12:52,590 --> 00:12:55,150
create a download bot that masks itself as

401
00:12:55,150 --> 00:12:57,730
something else and increase downloads for anybody.

402
00:12:59,950 --> 00:13:02,370
I'm not pointing the finger at anybody, but

403
00:13:02,370 --> 00:13:03,330
come on.

404
00:13:03,830 --> 00:13:06,170
You should, I mean, you should be blocking

405
00:13:06,170 --> 00:13:06,930
this stuff.

406
00:13:08,050 --> 00:13:08,870
Please don't block me.

407
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:14,750
But I told, I told Tom, I was

408
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:17,110
like, I was like, Adam's going to put,

409
00:13:17,270 --> 00:13:21,510
Adam's going to put a, an HTTP header

410
00:13:21,510 --> 00:13:22,770
and it says, this is Adam.

411
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:23,870
Please don't block me.

412
00:13:27,950 --> 00:13:28,630
It's fun.

413
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:31,370
The first 12 minutes of pod news weekly

414
00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:31,550
review.

415
00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:32,810
Oh, I haven't heard it yet.

416
00:13:32,930 --> 00:13:36,250
Is it James complaining about Google still downloading

417
00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:37,610
his stuff over and over again?

418
00:13:38,270 --> 00:13:39,230
No, no, no.

419
00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:43,010
The first 12 minutes of, of, of, of

420
00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:45,350
pod news weekly review, which is, which according

421
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:46,970
to them is the only thing that anybody

422
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:49,190
ever listens to is roughly the first 12

423
00:13:49,190 --> 00:13:49,550
minutes.

424
00:13:50,270 --> 00:13:52,810
Well, they start off, they start off by

425
00:13:52,810 --> 00:13:55,530
saying, this has chapters jump around as much

426
00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:56,110
as you like.

427
00:13:56,370 --> 00:13:56,730
Okay.

428
00:13:58,090 --> 00:13:59,270
And there's a reason for that.

429
00:13:59,310 --> 00:14:02,410
So like, they, they talk about the, they

430
00:14:02,410 --> 00:14:03,570
talk about a couple of things, but they

431
00:14:03,570 --> 00:14:04,390
get into play counts.

432
00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:05,390
But the first thing I talked about was

433
00:14:05,390 --> 00:14:07,070
audience drop off, which I thought was pretty

434
00:14:07,070 --> 00:14:07,430
interesting.

435
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:09,070
You know, I mean, you can very clearly

436
00:14:09,070 --> 00:14:09,390
see.

437
00:14:09,570 --> 00:14:12,910
So this show, for example, this show may

438
00:14:12,910 --> 00:14:14,090
be slightly too long, Sam.

439
00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:19,770
30, 30, 34% are still listening by

440
00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:22,550
the end of the first quarter, 17%

441
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:24,070
still listening by the end of the second

442
00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:27,170
quarter, 10% listening by the end of

443
00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:29,370
the third quarter and only 14% actually

444
00:14:29,370 --> 00:14:29,990
complete.

445
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:32,650
And what, what numbers is this based on?

446
00:14:32,830 --> 00:14:33,890
What, what data?

447
00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:36,090
Uh, this is the spot.

448
00:14:36,190 --> 00:14:37,750
I think this is the Spotify dashboard.

449
00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:38,410
Oh, okay.

450
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:38,730
Yeah.

451
00:14:39,550 --> 00:14:41,510
What, what is, that's interesting.

452
00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:44,990
I just thought that was interesting because if

453
00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:49,650
you down, so if you are listening to

454
00:14:49,650 --> 00:14:54,050
a very niche industry podcasts, like pod news

455
00:14:54,050 --> 00:14:57,490
weekly review, and we say very targeted subject

456
00:14:57,490 --> 00:14:59,690
matter as, as is our show.

457
00:14:59,910 --> 00:15:00,470
Yes.

458
00:15:00,730 --> 00:15:03,810
It's if you're, if you decide to start

459
00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:08,690
listening to that, like, why would there be

460
00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:10,150
such a high drop off?

461
00:15:10,570 --> 00:15:14,170
I mean, you're, you really have to know

462
00:15:14,170 --> 00:15:17,490
where you're going to get to a show

463
00:15:17,490 --> 00:15:18,750
like that to begin with.

464
00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:20,790
And then you're only going to listen to

465
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:22,070
like the first 12 minutes.

466
00:15:22,210 --> 00:15:23,370
I don't understand.

467
00:15:24,350 --> 00:15:25,850
I really don't understand this.

468
00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:29,010
It's like, it's like going and subscribing to

469
00:15:29,010 --> 00:15:34,930
a podcast about, um, different types of, uh,

470
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:38,690
HVAC refrigerants and then only listening to the

471
00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:40,190
first five minutes of each episode.

472
00:15:40,510 --> 00:15:43,930
Like there's a really weird dynamic going on

473
00:15:43,930 --> 00:15:45,390
there that I just do not understand.

474
00:15:45,870 --> 00:15:48,350
I mean, I'll, I'll, so I just look

475
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:50,410
at the no agenda numbers and we got

476
00:15:50,410 --> 00:15:52,190
around 800,000 uniques a month.

477
00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:54,310
And I'm, and this of course is only,

478
00:15:54,310 --> 00:15:58,010
uh, streaming payments data.

479
00:15:58,550 --> 00:16:00,250
So take it for what it's worth.

480
00:16:00,270 --> 00:16:02,050
It's a small percentage of people listening, but

481
00:16:02,050 --> 00:16:03,490
I think it's a representative sample.

482
00:16:03,970 --> 00:16:09,690
And so no agenda by, um, within 30

483
00:16:09,690 --> 00:16:15,550
minutes, we've lost about 12%, which is understandable.

484
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:16,350
Yeah.

485
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:20,310
The big drop off comes at, um, the

486
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:22,410
first donation segment about an hour and a

487
00:16:22,410 --> 00:16:25,570
half in, and then we're down to 38%.

488
00:16:25,570 --> 00:16:28,250
So now you're, you're down, you're not down

489
00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:28,850
38%.

490
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:31,050
You're down to 38% remaining down to

491
00:16:31,050 --> 00:16:31,790
38%.

492
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:34,550
And then that's, that stays pretty consistent until

493
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:35,970
the second donation segment.

494
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:38,510
Funny enough, that then drops down to, so

495
00:16:38,510 --> 00:16:41,510
now you're three over three hours in, it's

496
00:16:41,510 --> 00:16:42,230
a long show.

497
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:46,870
And then we're down to, uh, 28%.

498
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:49,190
And then it goes up a little bit

499
00:16:49,190 --> 00:16:50,370
at the end for the end for the

500
00:16:50,370 --> 00:16:51,410
tip of the day and the end of

501
00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:51,930
show mixes.

502
00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:54,630
Now, if I look at, um, curry and

503
00:16:54,630 --> 00:16:57,750
the keeper and no agenda also has chapters.

504
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:59,350
Yes, it does.

505
00:16:59,570 --> 00:17:00,410
It does have chapters.

506
00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:00,750
I don't know.

507
00:17:00,750 --> 00:17:03,270
I don't know if people, I mean, I

508
00:17:03,270 --> 00:17:05,210
have no idea how people use chapters.

509
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:07,550
Um, but what's interesting about no agenda and

510
00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:09,849
the chapters is since Dreb Scott does the

511
00:17:09,849 --> 00:17:13,150
chapters, they're not immediately available upon publishing.

512
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:16,650
So there's, there's some lag there.

513
00:17:18,010 --> 00:17:19,730
Um, and I think a lot of people

514
00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:21,790
are, are listened to no agenda.

515
00:17:21,910 --> 00:17:23,210
They're going to listen to it very quickly.

516
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:23,990
Yeah.

517
00:17:24,550 --> 00:17:25,990
So I'm looking at curry and the keeper

518
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:28,130
that is like, it's like solid.

519
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,010
Up until donations.

520
00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:33,690
And then it just drops down to 67%,

521
00:17:33,690 --> 00:17:35,430
but that's it.

522
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:35,970
It's solid.

523
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:39,130
So yeah, I mean, it all depends.

524
00:17:39,390 --> 00:17:41,710
Um, now of course, if they had an

525
00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:43,730
ad, if they were running ads, which they're

526
00:17:43,730 --> 00:17:46,130
not, if they had an ad, um, three

527
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:48,170
quarters of the way through the show, they

528
00:17:48,170 --> 00:17:50,490
really shouldn't get compensated based upon number of

529
00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:50,950
downloads.

530
00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:53,070
I think that's the point we're making here.

531
00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:56,990
And the, they go, they go on to

532
00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:59,630
talk about, uh, about the play counts, which

533
00:17:59,630 --> 00:18:05,470
is really, it's so, you know, there was

534
00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:11,690
this huge, like, uh, you know, like earthquake

535
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:15,390
that went through the podcast world a couple

536
00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:16,710
of years ago with apples.

537
00:18:16,910 --> 00:18:18,690
I was 17, baby.

538
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:19,630
Yes.

539
00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:19,930
Yeah.

540
00:18:20,490 --> 00:18:24,330
And we sort of think that, Oh, well

541
00:18:24,330 --> 00:18:25,870
now apple fixed it.

542
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:27,410
Yeah.

543
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:31,070
But this, you know, they're, they're them talking

544
00:18:31,070 --> 00:18:33,830
about the play counts as, as it relates

545
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:37,210
to podcast, but he's weekly review shows that

546
00:18:37,210 --> 00:18:40,050
really, there's still a lot of question marks.

547
00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:43,170
Um, the other thing though, um, is that

548
00:18:43,170 --> 00:18:46,630
we don't actually know how plays are calculated.

549
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:48,890
We know that plays of trailers and clips

550
00:18:48,890 --> 00:18:50,830
aren't included, which I think is the right

551
00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:51,770
way of doing things.

552
00:18:52,330 --> 00:18:54,870
Um, Spotify have given a little bit more

553
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:57,030
information this week in terms of how they're

554
00:18:57,030 --> 00:18:58,790
worked out and they're worked out the true

555
00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:00,390
fans way, which I find amusing.

556
00:19:00,770 --> 00:19:02,590
Uh, so a play is only counted once

557
00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:04,270
per user, per session, per episode.

558
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:06,850
So if you pause, um, if you play

559
00:19:06,850 --> 00:19:08,230
an episode and then you pause it and

560
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:10,050
then you start playing it again, that's one

561
00:19:10,050 --> 00:19:10,490
play.

562
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:13,090
Now, interestingly, that's two plays on apple.

563
00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:15,410
And so I did a little bit of

564
00:19:15,410 --> 00:19:17,970
work on this show and I thought, okay,

565
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:20,070
what is this show?

566
00:19:20,750 --> 00:19:22,790
Um, you know, what, how many plays has

567
00:19:22,790 --> 00:19:26,670
this show got, um, on apple podcasts and

568
00:19:26,670 --> 00:19:27,370
on Spotify.

569
00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:30,210
And interestingly, over the last 60 days, we've

570
00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:32,510
had a total audience size, quite a small

571
00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:34,950
audience size because of these two platforms aren't

572
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:38,090
really used by our audience of 185 people

573
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:40,650
on both Spotify and on apple podcast.

574
00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:41,250
So that's nice.

575
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:43,350
So we've, so we've got some really nice

576
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:44,750
equal numbers here.

577
00:19:44,830 --> 00:19:48,030
So the play count on Spotify is 715

578
00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:51,450
and the play counts on apple 2,800

579
00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:55,230
almost four times as many plays from the

580
00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:57,430
same audience size because apple measures a play

581
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:59,550
differently to Spotify.

582
00:19:59,990 --> 00:20:00,090
Yeah.

583
00:20:00,090 --> 00:20:02,770
I've been following this conversation because they've been

584
00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:04,070
talking about it for a couple of weeks

585
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:06,550
and it's like, no one will actually say

586
00:20:06,550 --> 00:20:08,190
how they calculate plays.

587
00:20:08,810 --> 00:20:11,530
And I'm like, well, that's, uh, let me

588
00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:14,370
coin the phrase dodgy to say the best.

589
00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:15,230
Let's say the least.

590
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:17,450
I mean, we have a play count on

591
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:18,110
Godcaster.

592
00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:20,470
Dave, why don't you explain, lay it all

593
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:20,810
out there.

594
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:23,230
Give us, give us our magic sauce, our

595
00:20:23,230 --> 00:20:24,550
secret play count.

596
00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:26,270
Okay.

597
00:20:26,590 --> 00:20:30,410
Secret sauce secret is there's a, there's a

598
00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:31,810
few different things happening.

599
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:35,010
So we have, we measure a play and

600
00:20:35,010 --> 00:20:36,710
a resume as different things.

601
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:37,210
Yeah.

602
00:20:37,550 --> 00:20:39,790
So when you play it, that's a play.

603
00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:41,390
When you hit, when you first start listening,

604
00:20:41,470 --> 00:20:42,050
that's a play.

605
00:20:42,790 --> 00:20:44,990
When you resume listening, that's a resume.

606
00:20:45,130 --> 00:20:45,890
It's a different thing.

607
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:47,970
So if you, if you stopped and then

608
00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:49,670
you picked it up two hours later and

609
00:20:49,670 --> 00:20:51,150
it does pick up where you left off,

610
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:52,050
that's just a resume.

611
00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:52,850
It's not a play.

612
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:53,710
Right.

613
00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:53,950
Right.

614
00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:55,730
And then the other thing is if you,

615
00:20:56,050 --> 00:20:58,290
and, and we also use the UL ID

616
00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:01,350
identifier, which is stored, which is cached in

617
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:02,670
local storage in the browser.

618
00:21:03,770 --> 00:21:06,410
So we're always sending the UL ID along

619
00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:09,210
with the play so that we can de

620
00:21:09,210 --> 00:21:11,610
-duplicate those plays and say, okay, well this

621
00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:13,710
is not, and so this is, you know,

622
00:21:13,810 --> 00:21:18,050
we got two plays within the same hour

623
00:21:18,050 --> 00:21:19,930
for the same episode.

624
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:22,770
Let's say that somebody skips all the way

625
00:21:22,770 --> 00:21:25,010
to the end and then it repicks and

626
00:21:25,010 --> 00:21:26,470
then starts that episode over.

627
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:28,110
So that's going to count as a play

628
00:21:28,110 --> 00:21:30,170
again, but the UL ID tag allows us

629
00:21:30,170 --> 00:21:32,110
to de-duplicate that and say, no, that

630
00:21:32,110 --> 00:21:32,710
wasn't a play.

631
00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:35,070
That was a, that was actually just the

632
00:21:35,070 --> 00:21:36,690
same guy, the same.

633
00:21:36,810 --> 00:21:38,290
It was, that's just, it still only counts

634
00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:38,990
as one play.

635
00:21:39,690 --> 00:21:42,730
So, I mean, like we really try to

636
00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:45,510
not double count anything if, if at all

637
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:46,030
possible.

638
00:21:46,590 --> 00:21:48,150
And here's, here's what's interesting.

639
00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:51,930
So we've, and this is important because, so

640
00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:55,470
first from my own perspective, I haven't really

641
00:21:55,470 --> 00:21:57,590
looked at download numbers for any of my

642
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:59,350
shows for 15 years at least.

643
00:21:59,490 --> 00:22:00,370
I really don't care.

644
00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:02,610
All I know is, hey, how many people

645
00:22:02,610 --> 00:22:03,050
donated?

646
00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:04,590
Not the amount necessarily.

647
00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:07,590
So like yesterday on No Agenda, the people

648
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:10,410
above, it was like 29 people who donated

649
00:22:10,410 --> 00:22:11,150
above the line.

650
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:12,850
That is one of the lowest of all

651
00:22:12,850 --> 00:22:13,230
time.

652
00:22:13,850 --> 00:22:15,190
And I'm not, and I'm not, I'm not

653
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:17,310
complaining about the total dollar amount.

654
00:22:17,390 --> 00:22:19,150
I'm complaining about the number of people who

655
00:22:19,150 --> 00:22:19,770
are donating.

656
00:22:20,410 --> 00:22:22,830
It's like, you know, we have 800,000

657
00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:23,310
people.

658
00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:27,030
No one feels like giving anything back.

659
00:22:28,110 --> 00:22:30,290
And when we've been talking to some of

660
00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:32,530
our clients, some radio stations and people who

661
00:22:32,530 --> 00:22:34,690
produce very large programs that are on a

662
00:22:34,690 --> 00:22:35,910
thousand radio stations.

663
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:39,070
And so we give them this beautiful dashboard

664
00:22:39,070 --> 00:22:41,290
as a program producer, you can log in,

665
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:43,590
you can see all of the different plays

666
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:45,930
and interactions, everything that's happening in all these

667
00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:48,450
different radio stations and churches that use the

668
00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:49,030
Godcaster.

669
00:22:49,950 --> 00:22:51,430
And there's, and the data is beautiful.

670
00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:53,350
I mean, there's lots of information there.

671
00:22:53,650 --> 00:22:56,170
The one number they care about, where did

672
00:22:56,170 --> 00:22:57,270
the donation come from?

673
00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:00,330
Because we track that through the funding tag.

674
00:23:00,430 --> 00:23:01,950
So you can say, hey, I got a

675
00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:03,290
donation here, 50 bucks.

676
00:23:03,390 --> 00:23:05,110
It came from KHCB in Houston.

677
00:23:05,670 --> 00:23:06,730
I love those guys.

678
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:10,710
That's all, that's all the attribution part.

679
00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:11,710
That's all they care about.

680
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:12,750
Have you looked at any of the other

681
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:12,970
numbers?

682
00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:13,570
No, not really.

683
00:23:14,590 --> 00:23:15,190
Not really.

684
00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:16,170
I don't, I don't really care.

685
00:23:16,530 --> 00:23:18,750
And that's why value for value is such

686
00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:19,710
a beautiful system.

687
00:23:19,910 --> 00:23:21,710
And it also makes you feel better.

688
00:23:21,890 --> 00:23:25,250
This show probably gets more people donating smaller

689
00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:27,530
amounts than No Agenda did yesterday.

690
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:30,430
And I feel so much happier just that

691
00:23:30,430 --> 00:23:32,030
it's, it's not about the total.

692
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:33,630
Ultimately, of course, I want to be able

693
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:35,790
to pay the rent, but it's really about,

694
00:23:35,890 --> 00:23:37,270
that's the engagement factor.

695
00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:39,050
It's like, just send me a dollar.

696
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:40,710
Lots of, we have lots of people send

697
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:41,410
us a couple bucks.

698
00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:41,990
I love that.

699
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:43,950
Or a couple of sats, you know, two,

700
00:23:44,050 --> 00:23:44,390
two, two.

701
00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:44,950
What is that?

702
00:23:44,990 --> 00:23:46,010
How many pennies is that?

703
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:47,190
That's not the point.

704
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:49,030
It's like, that's the interaction.

705
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:50,390
That's the feedback loop.

706
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:52,630
That's the thing that makes me as a

707
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:54,310
podcaster, a happy person.

708
00:23:54,650 --> 00:23:58,070
Then hearing this, I think that, you know,

709
00:23:58,110 --> 00:23:59,450
they're looking at their play count.

710
00:23:59,510 --> 00:24:00,890
Wow, that's great play count.

711
00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:02,290
But then they look at the actual numbers

712
00:24:02,290 --> 00:24:03,490
like, well, we don't really have that many

713
00:24:03,490 --> 00:24:04,150
people listening.

714
00:24:04,570 --> 00:24:05,870
And now they feel depressed.

715
00:24:05,870 --> 00:24:07,670
So it's not, it's not good.

716
00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:09,350
It's not a, it's not a good metric.

717
00:24:10,370 --> 00:24:13,710
Well, the Apple, the, the download numbers show

718
00:24:13,710 --> 00:24:16,150
like in the, they talked about Apple specifically

719
00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:17,090
in the download numbers.

720
00:24:17,170 --> 00:24:18,810
And that shows pretty much kind of the,

721
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:19,910
pretty much the same thing.

722
00:24:20,170 --> 00:24:21,770
But Spotify is tiny for us.

723
00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:24,810
It's 6% of our plays.

724
00:24:26,190 --> 00:24:29,970
Apple podcasts, interestingly, way bigger, 32% of

725
00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:30,510
our plays.

726
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:31,930
So what does that tell you?

727
00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:35,710
That tells you that Apple podcast has four

728
00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:39,410
times the amount of downloads, but seemingly in

729
00:24:39,410 --> 00:24:41,690
terms of audience has the same amount of

730
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:44,390
audience as Spotify's numbers.

731
00:24:44,550 --> 00:24:46,730
Of course, neither of these platforms actually use

732
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:47,730
the IAB anyway.

733
00:24:47,910 --> 00:24:50,390
So it makes the IAB look a little

734
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:50,950
bit ridiculous.

735
00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:52,210
Yeah.

736
00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:52,850
Yeah.

737
00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:53,330
Yeah.

738
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:54,050
Oh man.

739
00:24:54,530 --> 00:24:54,630
Yeah.

740
00:24:54,690 --> 00:24:56,590
Four, four times the amount of downloads for

741
00:24:56,590 --> 00:24:57,990
the same number of people listening.

742
00:24:58,290 --> 00:25:00,470
So that, that tells you that the Apple

743
00:25:00,470 --> 00:25:03,610
download apocalypse is, it's ongoing.

744
00:25:03,810 --> 00:25:05,630
I think, I mean, it could be, I

745
00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:06,930
mean, it could be all kinds of stuff.

746
00:25:07,030 --> 00:25:09,090
I, I just don't understand why YouTube doesn't

747
00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:10,710
explain their views either.

748
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:12,930
But if you dig deep enough, what is

749
00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:15,190
it like 20 seconds of someone clicking play

750
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:16,410
and viewing that's a view.

751
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:17,870
Yeah.

752
00:25:17,870 --> 00:25:20,310
And the thing that strikes me too, is

753
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:22,490
we just do not, we really don't know.

754
00:25:22,490 --> 00:25:25,830
I don't think anybody knows or really cares

755
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:26,490
that much.

756
00:25:26,790 --> 00:25:31,650
If these Apple user agents are actually Apple

757
00:25:31,650 --> 00:25:32,650
podcasts.

758
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:36,990
Oh, I mean, just because you're claiming that

759
00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:40,850
you are Apple podcasts app doesn't mean that

760
00:25:40,850 --> 00:25:41,870
you actually are.

761
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:43,410
No, you could be a down, you could

762
00:25:43,410 --> 00:25:44,810
be an Adam Curry download script.

763
00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:48,650
No, no, that's Lib, that's Python, Lib, URL,

764
00:25:48,930 --> 00:25:49,910
Lib, get, fetch.

765
00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:53,050
Yeah.

766
00:25:53,050 --> 00:25:53,490
Yeah.

767
00:25:53,710 --> 00:25:57,430
So these numbers, it's just, it's, it's so

768
00:25:57,430 --> 00:26:00,510
suspicious that no one wants to explain how

769
00:26:00,510 --> 00:26:01,630
they do these numbers.

770
00:26:01,670 --> 00:26:02,710
It's just nuts.

771
00:26:02,790 --> 00:26:04,790
And by the way, huge opportunity for the

772
00:26:04,790 --> 00:26:07,910
modern podcast apps, huge opportunity if we wanted

773
00:26:07,910 --> 00:26:09,950
to share that data and stuff like that,

774
00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:11,550
which I know some people are working on.

775
00:26:11,650 --> 00:26:13,530
So I'm excited about that.

776
00:26:14,270 --> 00:26:16,410
And I mean, I think follower counts make

777
00:26:16,410 --> 00:26:20,030
a lot of sense to if somebody, those,

778
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:22,150
how do you actually measure a follower count?

779
00:26:22,330 --> 00:26:23,710
What is the technical measurement?

780
00:26:24,930 --> 00:26:27,530
Well, you know, so like a Overcast reports

781
00:26:27,530 --> 00:26:30,010
this and in the user from the app

782
00:26:30,010 --> 00:26:31,950
itself from the app.

783
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:32,150
Right.

784
00:26:32,290 --> 00:26:32,470
Yes.

785
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:33,070
Yes.

786
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:35,170
I mean, those are helpful because then you

787
00:26:35,170 --> 00:26:38,390
can say, okay, well, I mean, uh, you

788
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:41,030
know, uh, Podverse knows how many people are

789
00:26:41,030 --> 00:26:43,930
subscribed to such and such show.

790
00:26:44,030 --> 00:26:47,450
They can, they, uh, Mitch could stick that

791
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:48,450
into the header.

792
00:26:48,610 --> 00:26:49,130
Right.

793
00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:51,550
Now, now Frank, now Franco doesn't, I mean,

794
00:26:51,550 --> 00:26:55,230
that's, that's, that's a, a pure distributed app,

795
00:26:55,370 --> 00:26:57,730
but there's no way that he's not aggregating

796
00:26:57,730 --> 00:26:58,390
that information.

797
00:26:58,390 --> 00:27:01,290
That's all on device, but something like a

798
00:27:01,290 --> 00:27:04,110
Podverse or Fountain or those kinds of guys,

799
00:27:04,210 --> 00:27:06,490
they, they would know those numbers and they

800
00:27:06,490 --> 00:27:07,710
could report them back.

801
00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:10,330
And so, and it's essentially what's happening.

802
00:27:10,450 --> 00:27:12,350
It's a private reporting that happens.

803
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:12,830
Right.

804
00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:14,310
And I think this is what John Spurlock

805
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:15,630
is trying to formalize.

806
00:27:15,650 --> 00:27:15,930
Yeah, exactly.

807
00:27:16,030 --> 00:27:17,710
To put that into, you know, into the

808
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:18,250
header.

809
00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:18,650
Yeah.

810
00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:19,450
Yeah.

811
00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:20,650
And we need to talk about that.

812
00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:23,010
Um, um, uh, it's on my notes.

813
00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:24,450
We just haven't been able to get to

814
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:25,790
it, but I want to talk about that

815
00:27:25,790 --> 00:27:26,950
because I think it's a great idea.

816
00:27:27,270 --> 00:27:28,070
It's very helpful.

817
00:27:28,150 --> 00:27:29,770
It's, it ends up being a private report

818
00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:33,030
where you can say, you know, on my

819
00:27:33,030 --> 00:27:36,610
app, your show has 300 followers.

820
00:27:36,970 --> 00:27:37,070
Yes.

821
00:27:37,810 --> 00:27:41,430
And you kind of, you stop thinking about,

822
00:27:41,630 --> 00:27:44,310
to a degree, you stop thinking about how

823
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:46,130
many downloads or listens you get.

824
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:48,150
And you're like, well, you know, I've got,

825
00:27:48,550 --> 00:27:51,090
I've got a, this is my, my audience

826
00:27:51,090 --> 00:27:52,370
is the people who follow me.

827
00:27:52,610 --> 00:27:54,970
And I know that my every, every episode

828
00:27:54,970 --> 00:27:56,270
I put out, it's going to be in

829
00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:58,210
front of their eyes in some way and

830
00:27:58,210 --> 00:28:00,110
they have the option to listen to it.

831
00:28:00,230 --> 00:28:00,330
Right.

832
00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:02,670
So, I mean, and that's, I think that's

833
00:28:02,670 --> 00:28:04,210
kind of almost more important than.

834
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:06,850
It's a great, it's a great number to

835
00:28:06,850 --> 00:28:07,130
have.

836
00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:09,210
And you're right, it's private reporting and it's

837
00:28:09,210 --> 00:28:11,770
not exposing what users are doing.

838
00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:13,190
I think it's a great, a great way

839
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:13,550
to report.

840
00:28:13,630 --> 00:28:15,910
I think it's absolutely a very valid thing.

841
00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:19,910
Oh, the harp.

842
00:28:20,110 --> 00:28:24,210
Sam Sethi with a mini, mini harp boost.

843
00:28:24,730 --> 00:28:25,310
777.

844
00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:27,810
What happened to Sam, man?

845
00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:29,510
He used to be the big baller.

846
00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:30,610
He says.

847
00:28:30,790 --> 00:28:31,250
High roller.

848
00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:32,030
Yes.

849
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:34,410
The only three metrics that matter for creators.

850
00:28:34,830 --> 00:28:35,650
I don't like that word.

851
00:28:36,150 --> 00:28:39,010
Listen time, percent completed and value paid.

852
00:28:39,570 --> 00:28:41,650
These are what true fans focus on.

853
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:44,190
We show play counts, but the podcast can

854
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:45,730
turn those off and hide them in the

855
00:28:45,730 --> 00:28:46,850
creator settings.

856
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:48,050
Hashtag choice.

857
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:49,570
Yeah.

858
00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:53,570
But I'd put value paid first and I

859
00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:55,170
guess listen time.

860
00:28:55,270 --> 00:28:57,090
I mean, I know the listen time by

861
00:28:57,090 --> 00:28:59,870
what people email me about, you know, like,

862
00:28:59,970 --> 00:29:01,170
Hey, I heard this thing at the end.

863
00:29:02,430 --> 00:29:03,530
Yeah, I guess that's important.

864
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:04,090
I guess so.

865
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:07,730
Anyway, to be discussed, put that on the

866
00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:09,490
notes for a future board meeting.

867
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:11,950
Uh, by the way, I'm not sure I

868
00:29:11,950 --> 00:29:13,550
can do the board meeting next week.

869
00:29:13,730 --> 00:29:15,050
I can't do it.

870
00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:16,650
We're both out of town.

871
00:29:16,750 --> 00:29:17,070
That's right.

872
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:18,010
I'm on the way to Nashville.

873
00:29:18,210 --> 00:29:18,530
You're right.

874
00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:19,770
And you're, you're where, where are you?

875
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:20,190
Where are you?

876
00:29:20,770 --> 00:29:22,210
I'll be in, I'll be in the forest.

877
00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:23,590
Foraging.

878
00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:24,510
Yeah.

879
00:29:24,930 --> 00:29:26,850
Me and my son are doing some backpacking

880
00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:27,230
next week.

881
00:29:27,410 --> 00:29:28,030
Oh, nice.

882
00:29:28,050 --> 00:29:28,470
That's beautiful.

883
00:29:28,610 --> 00:29:29,690
I will be, I will be in the,

884
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:30,670
in the, in the wilderness.

885
00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:33,910
So we spoke last week in the meeting

886
00:29:33,910 --> 00:29:36,450
about some new things coming from fountain.

887
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:38,570
You and I have received, I actually got

888
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:40,890
a full on demo the other day because,

889
00:29:40,990 --> 00:29:43,950
uh, uh, Korean, the keeper will be a

890
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:45,670
pilot podcast for this.

891
00:29:46,030 --> 00:29:47,830
And the, and the keeper has agreed.

892
00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:49,590
I just threw it out there.

893
00:29:49,810 --> 00:29:50,330
I did.

894
00:29:50,430 --> 00:29:51,850
I got the boss gave me permission.

895
00:29:52,510 --> 00:29:55,810
Um, and to detail what they're doing, because

896
00:29:55,810 --> 00:29:58,690
it's something that's very valuable for all podcasts,

897
00:29:58,750 --> 00:29:59,530
app developers.

898
00:29:59,950 --> 00:30:02,430
And I think there's some valuable information for

899
00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:03,310
hosting companies.

900
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:06,710
Please welcome to the boardroom, uh, Oscar Mary,

901
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:08,430
uh, and Dovey Doss.

902
00:30:08,690 --> 00:30:09,670
Hello guys.

903
00:30:10,530 --> 00:30:11,430
Hey Adam.

904
00:30:11,530 --> 00:30:12,030
How's it going?

905
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:12,670
Hi.

906
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:13,890
It's good.

907
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:14,270
Hi.

908
00:30:15,390 --> 00:30:16,410
It's Dovey Doss.

909
00:30:16,590 --> 00:30:16,830
Hi.

910
00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:17,650
Yes.

911
00:30:18,150 --> 00:30:18,510
Yes.

912
00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:19,630
It's going well, guys.

913
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:21,110
Good to speak to you again.

914
00:30:22,370 --> 00:30:22,930
Yeah.

915
00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:23,670
It's good to be back.

916
00:30:23,730 --> 00:30:25,690
I was trying to remember when the last

917
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:28,330
time we spoke was maybe like towards the

918
00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:31,250
end of last year when all of the

919
00:30:31,850 --> 00:30:36,090
LN address conversation was the thing of the

920
00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:36,390
moment.

921
00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:39,090
It's not like that thing of the moment

922
00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:40,130
has really gone away.

923
00:30:40,290 --> 00:30:42,170
It's, it's still a thing, but I will

924
00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:44,700
say I, I, I continue to get, uh,

925
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:47,890
all kinds of, uh, boosts and streams from

926
00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:48,890
all kinds of apps.

927
00:30:48,890 --> 00:30:51,390
And it, uh, it also comes in, uh,

928
00:30:51,890 --> 00:30:54,590
my 1% comes into my strike wallet.

929
00:30:54,590 --> 00:30:56,830
So things are working one way or the

930
00:30:56,830 --> 00:30:57,030
other.

931
00:30:57,070 --> 00:30:58,910
It's, uh, it's still humming along.

932
00:30:59,230 --> 00:31:01,070
So, uh, maybe not with this.

933
00:31:02,090 --> 00:31:02,610
Sorry.

934
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:06,130
And with cash app launching lightning addresses as

935
00:31:06,130 --> 00:31:06,290
well.

936
00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:09,290
I think it, it really shows that, um,

937
00:31:09,390 --> 00:31:11,970
lightning addresses is the standard that's going to

938
00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:15,050
be adopted by every, you know, payments company.

939
00:31:15,270 --> 00:31:15,430
Yeah.

940
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:18,090
Well, this is, I think something we discussed,

941
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:19,970
maybe even predicted in the board meeting.

942
00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:22,270
It's like all just like strike all these

943
00:31:22,270 --> 00:31:22,910
different apps.

944
00:31:22,970 --> 00:31:24,610
Now they're not going to do KeySend, but

945
00:31:24,610 --> 00:31:26,250
they're all going to do LN addresses.

946
00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:28,610
I'm sure Venmo is close behind.

947
00:31:29,090 --> 00:31:30,090
Everyone will be doing this.

948
00:31:30,450 --> 00:31:34,170
And with the so-called genius bill failing

949
00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:38,550
to pass by, uh, you know, enough margin,

950
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:39,670
like, I don't know if they're going to

951
00:31:39,670 --> 00:31:41,770
be able to bring that thing back out

952
00:31:41,770 --> 00:31:43,190
of, uh, out of the depths of the

953
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:43,590
dead.

954
00:31:44,450 --> 00:31:47,110
Uh, it was kind of coincidental that the,

955
00:31:47,270 --> 00:31:48,890
you know, so that whole stable coin thing

956
00:31:48,890 --> 00:31:50,730
failed, boom, all of a sudden we have

957
00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:53,090
lightning on cash app with LN, LN addresses.

958
00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:55,590
I just thought that was interesting timing.

959
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,100
Anyone else think that was interesting timing or

960
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:04,640
am I just floating in the wind here?

961
00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:08,580
Yeah, I'm not sure about the timing, but

962
00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:12,840
I think it's, it's massive for, um, helping,

963
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,380
you know, podcasters and their audience understand what

964
00:32:17,380 --> 00:32:19,260
lightning is when you can point to cash

965
00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:21,340
app and say, Hey, you know, that thing

966
00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:23,360
that was a cash, uh, cash tag or

967
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,080
whatever they called it.

968
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,160
That's now a lightning address.

969
00:32:25,180 --> 00:32:27,380
It works in the same way, but it's

970
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:28,100
interoperable.

971
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,560
It just, you know, some of the complexity

972
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,660
of lightning kind of melts away.

973
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:34,260
Yeah.

974
00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:36,560
But it's also just good for humanity.

975
00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:38,800
I mean, the ability to, I don't know

976
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,500
if they charge any fees other than network

977
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:42,020
fees.

978
00:32:42,820 --> 00:32:45,160
Uh, I haven't looked into it actually, but

979
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,480
for humanity itself, just to have a payment

980
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,980
rails that is outside of the existing system,

981
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:51,060
I think is fantastic.

982
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,680
And even for those people who are already

983
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,980
on Bitcoin, uh, and have wallets, I would

984
00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:02,960
say half of the requests, customer requests, and

985
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,220
the emails I get from ours as blue

986
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:08,820
customers have been, Hey, why can't I use

987
00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:09,300
this wallet?

988
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,060
Why are there only two choices of wallets

989
00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:13,220
that I can currently use?

990
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:13,560
Right.

991
00:33:13,660 --> 00:33:15,520
So I think that's a very important issue

992
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,480
practically for podcasting right now.

993
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,840
So, um, when we spoke to you guys,

994
00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:24,380
the first thing I thought is, Oh my

995
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:26,460
Lord, they're sleeping together because they're all in

996
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:27,300
the same room.

997
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:30,020
This is very concerning.

998
00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:32,040
I'm not quite sure what's, uh, what's going

999
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:32,340
on.

1000
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:34,220
Uh, do you guys want someone to tell

1001
00:33:34,220 --> 00:33:36,800
us, uh, what's happening, what you're doing, and

1002
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,000
then we can get into some details.

1003
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:38,840
Yeah.

1004
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:40,580
Why is Dovidas in the room with you?

1005
00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:40,840
Yeah.

1006
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,740
Why is he there?

1007
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:42,060
Yeah.

1008
00:33:42,380 --> 00:33:44,700
And where are you even sharing a microphone?

1009
00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:45,100
Yeah.

1010
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:46,280
We're in the same room.

1011
00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:47,080
We're sharing a mic.

1012
00:33:48,140 --> 00:33:49,560
This is wrong.

1013
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,240
This is too cozy.

1014
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,780
Put your pants on, put your pants on

1015
00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:53,220
Dovidas.

1016
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:55,080
No.

1017
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:55,280
Yeah.

1018
00:33:55,340 --> 00:33:58,020
I'll give like a high level, like overview

1019
00:33:58,020 --> 00:34:00,900
and Dovidas can share his thoughts as well.

1020
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,820
But just to take a step back, obviously

1021
00:34:03,820 --> 00:34:07,400
we've been working, um, on Fountain for a

1022
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,840
few years now trying to push forward, um,

1023
00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:16,320
podcasting 2.0 value for value open payments

1024
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,639
using the lightning network.

1025
00:34:18,060 --> 00:34:21,699
And I think we've had amazing success over

1026
00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:22,900
the last couple of years.

1027
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,760
Um, we've seen, you know, through the, um,

1028
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,820
the wallet shim that you guys enabled, we've

1029
00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:33,000
seen thousands of podcasters claim their show on

1030
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,659
Fountain to enable payments.

1031
00:34:35,540 --> 00:34:37,960
Um, and I think there's a lot of

1032
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,580
success there in terms of helping podcasters get

1033
00:34:41,580 --> 00:34:45,139
paid, but also, you know, encouraging that feedback

1034
00:34:45,139 --> 00:34:47,719
loop and providing discovery as well, which is

1035
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,280
what we've done in the Fountain app.

1036
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,880
I think over the past like year, we've

1037
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,180
kind of been reflecting on the challenges specifically

1038
00:34:57,180 --> 00:34:58,960
around onboarding.

1039
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,680
So onboarding podcasters to this new world and

1040
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,240
also onboarding listeners.

1041
00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:08,680
And, you know, we've worked really closely with

1042
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,980
Dovidas over the years, you know, uh, we're

1043
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:12,280
both in London.

1044
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,180
Um, and we've had many, you know, late

1045
00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:18,040
nights doing the, the American live streams at

1046
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:18,660
4.00 AM.

1047
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,740
So, and, and also, um, with RSS Blue

1048
00:35:22,740 --> 00:35:26,960
as well, um, you know, the majority of

1049
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,260
the RSS Blue hosting customers would actually use

1050
00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:34,620
Fountain as their primary wallet.

1051
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,300
So for a podcaster onboarding to RSS Blue,

1052
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,640
it would almost be this kind of double

1053
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,740
onboarding step where you have to go to

1054
00:35:45,740 --> 00:35:47,180
two places to sign up.

1055
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,860
You have to create two accounts.

1056
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,840
You have, uh, your kind of set up

1057
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,980
and analytics in two different places.

1058
00:35:55,220 --> 00:35:59,300
And that really, uh, we felt in many

1059
00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:02,280
discussions that we had this past year was

1060
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,240
really hurting the onboarding.

1061
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,400
The other thing to kind of just frame

1062
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,140
all of this is that for us as

1063
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:13,460
an app, we have felt at times that

1064
00:36:13,460 --> 00:36:14,940
there's things that we wanted to do.

1065
00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:17,200
There's things that we wanted to try or

1066
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,560
test out and the kind of like waiting

1067
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,260
game for hosts to adopt some of these

1068
00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:27,900
podcasting 2.0 tags and features was a

1069
00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:30,740
bit frustrating because we couldn't really, we didn't

1070
00:36:30,740 --> 00:36:32,220
feel like we could push things forward.

1071
00:36:32,540 --> 00:36:34,120
So yeah, that's kind of a bit of

1072
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,420
the background, but long story short, um, a

1073
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:40,400
few months ago we had a conversation, um,

1074
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,240
me, Nick and Dovidas and essentially decided to

1075
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:47,980
join forces and, um, build and work on

1076
00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:50,640
a new podcast hosting product that kind of

1077
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,360
brings the best parts of the fountain service

1078
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,160
around payments, onboarding wallets, uh, the social activity

1079
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,020
that we have in the app, or then

1080
00:37:02,020 --> 00:37:05,820
also bringing Dovidas' expertise on the hosting side

1081
00:37:05,820 --> 00:37:08,520
with the RSS feed generation and some of

1082
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,920
the really cool stats that he's done there.

1083
00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:13,520
So yeah, that's what we're working on.

1084
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,420
And then just one more thing I'll say,

1085
00:37:15,620 --> 00:37:17,840
and before I let Dovidas give his view

1086
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,680
on everything is that, um, although we are

1087
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,060
now kind of like getting into the hosting

1088
00:37:24,060 --> 00:37:26,680
side of things as well, the way that

1089
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,900
this has been built within our systems is

1090
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:32,000
that it's totally separate.

1091
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,160
So everything that the fountain app does around

1092
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,660
payments, and we've got a bunch of new

1093
00:37:38,660 --> 00:37:41,140
stuff that we've been working on, which we

1094
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:43,920
showed, uh, you guys in, in the call

1095
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:44,940
earlier in the week.

1096
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,580
Um, this works in the fountain app, but

1097
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:49,620
it's all pulled from the RSS feed.

1098
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,280
So there's no kind of like platform connection

1099
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,320
between our hosting products and the app.

1100
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,060
Everything goes through the RSS feed.

1101
00:37:59,060 --> 00:38:01,400
Um, we're, we hope that when we share

1102
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,100
more about these new payment flows that other

1103
00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:06,780
app developers can also, um, you know, check

1104
00:38:06,780 --> 00:38:07,640
them out and experiment.

1105
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,440
This is actually, um, quite interesting, you know,

1106
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,860
for, I think quite a while people have,

1107
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,020
there's always been these, um, these ideas of,

1108
00:38:16,180 --> 00:38:18,740
well, hosting companies should pay apps or hosting

1109
00:38:18,740 --> 00:38:20,220
companies should have their own app.

1110
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:21,620
And, you know, I don't think that's really

1111
00:38:21,620 --> 00:38:22,720
what hosting companies do.

1112
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,080
And so you've done in a way, kind

1113
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,540
of, uh, something that was very difficult, I

1114
00:38:27,540 --> 00:38:29,220
think, to do for established companies.

1115
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:30,860
You've come together and said, we're going to

1116
00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:32,700
do this as a team.

1117
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,060
We're both going to benefit.

1118
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:36,760
But from everything I saw, that is the

1119
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,560
nice thing is that every single podcast app,

1120
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,000
every single one can benefit because it's all

1121
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:42,560
in the feed.

1122
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,000
There's no API calls.

1123
00:38:44,060 --> 00:38:45,200
There's no sneaky business.

1124
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,780
There's no, as you said, no platform.

1125
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:47,980
That's pretty impressive.

1126
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,740
Yeah, exactly.

1127
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,760
And, and, and what, that's what we wanted

1128
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,100
to do.

1129
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,700
You know, we wanted to, um, showcase new

1130
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:58,620
things and, and actually have some feeds that

1131
00:38:58,620 --> 00:39:01,420
we could use to test out with rather

1132
00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:04,220
than pestering people to make changes to their

1133
00:39:04,220 --> 00:39:05,660
feeds or asking you to do it, Adam.

1134
00:39:05,940 --> 00:39:07,780
But yeah, I don't know if you want

1135
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:09,720
to give your kind of side of things

1136
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:10,000
and.

1137
00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:11,100
Yeah.

1138
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,180
Um, you know, I named the company RSS

1139
00:39:14,180 --> 00:39:16,540
Blue, which, you know, one, it means I'm

1140
00:39:16,540 --> 00:39:19,200
really bad at marketing, but secondly, it means

1141
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,640
I really believe in RSS feeds and joining

1142
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:25,960
with Fountain.

1143
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:29,720
I always want to ensure that that remains

1144
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:33,200
the core of the idea of how we

1145
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,360
distribute the podcasts.

1146
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,180
We've seen so many challenges over the last

1147
00:39:38,180 --> 00:39:41,540
couple of years, what Oscar mentioned regarding onboarding,

1148
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,980
but also things like analytics and just really

1149
00:39:44,980 --> 00:39:46,660
just explaining things to people.

1150
00:39:46,980 --> 00:39:49,420
There are just so many concepts that you

1151
00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:52,260
need to go through to onboard people, to

1152
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:54,480
podcasting 2.0, to explain what value for

1153
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,260
value is, then people need to understand what

1154
00:39:57,260 --> 00:40:00,080
nodes Bitcoin, Lightning, Keeson are.

1155
00:40:00,860 --> 00:40:04,460
And some people will do that, but the

1156
00:40:04,460 --> 00:40:05,280
majority won't.

1157
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,080
And I think we have to make it

1158
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,860
much, much easier, uh, just like any successful

1159
00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:14,700
technology has done over, uh, over time.

1160
00:40:15,380 --> 00:40:19,500
And at the same time, we must ensure

1161
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,560
that all of this remains open, that RSS

1162
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,480
feed is the source of truth and that

1163
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,340
any app that wants to participate in any

1164
00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:32,540
new ideas we invent, uh, they can easily

1165
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:35,660
do that by simply parsing the RSS feed,

1166
00:40:35,980 --> 00:40:37,600
the media files and so on.

1167
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:38,440
Amen.

1168
00:40:39,780 --> 00:40:43,540
What I, uh, having seen, uh, the, the

1169
00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:46,060
dashboard and the backend system was really quite

1170
00:40:46,060 --> 00:40:46,360
nice.

1171
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,260
You're doing a lot of things that people

1172
00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:51,720
I think will enjoy just, you know, top

1173
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:54,420
line, everything's integrated.

1174
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,340
So you see, you know, I guess you'll

1175
00:40:56,340 --> 00:40:57,980
tell us about the, uh, about the value

1176
00:40:57,980 --> 00:40:59,640
for value options that you have, but I

1177
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,340
just like the right off the bat.

1178
00:41:01,420 --> 00:41:03,440
Oh yeah, we're doing a alternate enclosure.

1179
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,100
You can do video, so you can upload

1180
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:07,300
audio and a video.

1181
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,160
You can choose what you want in the

1182
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:09,460
app.

1183
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,200
I mean, that's, that's just, I gotta say

1184
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,420
badass for two reasons.

1185
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,920
One, just the fact that you're taking that

1186
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,200
step to host video is a big deal.

1187
00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:20,020
And I, I don't know if you, I

1188
00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:21,620
mean, cause you know, people are kind of

1189
00:41:21,620 --> 00:41:23,640
idiots when it comes to uploading stuff.

1190
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:24,980
You know, so I don't know if you're

1191
00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:27,320
going to see 10, 10 gigabyte files, someone

1192
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,780
saying, Hey, here's my raw file, go fix

1193
00:41:29,780 --> 00:41:29,940
it.

1194
00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:31,700
Maybe you thought about it, didn't actually ask

1195
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:31,900
you.

1196
00:41:32,620 --> 00:41:34,820
Um, but also I think you have social

1197
00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:36,380
interact and you just want to tell us

1198
00:41:36,380 --> 00:41:38,040
some of those main features that are, that

1199
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,800
we're going to see in the feeds coming

1200
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:40,820
from the hosting side.

1201
00:41:42,220 --> 00:41:42,940
Yeah, definitely.

1202
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,700
I think you, what you said at the

1203
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:49,060
beginning there, Adam is, um, so important.

1204
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:51,580
We want to just provide a unified view

1205
00:41:51,580 --> 00:41:54,440
for podcasters where they can see and manage

1206
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:55,000
everything.

1207
00:41:55,220 --> 00:41:58,940
So the new dashboard that we've built combines

1208
00:41:58,940 --> 00:42:02,960
all of the, I guess, traditional podcast hosting

1209
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,880
analytics around downloads that we've just, you know,

1210
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:08,780
talked through about all the problems that exist

1211
00:42:08,780 --> 00:42:09,240
with that.

1212
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,800
We combine that with payment analytics, um, so

1213
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,220
that you can see, you know, how much

1214
00:42:15,220 --> 00:42:17,060
support you're getting from your audience.

1215
00:42:17,060 --> 00:42:19,460
And also you can see what your audience

1216
00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:22,300
is saying, the social data, the social profiles.

1217
00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:24,920
So it's, it's kind of one destination to

1218
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,860
see all of the important data for your

1219
00:42:27,860 --> 00:42:28,180
show.

1220
00:42:28,340 --> 00:42:31,260
And then in terms of the new RSS

1221
00:42:31,260 --> 00:42:34,540
tags that we're using to, to, to do

1222
00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:37,860
this, maybe actually, if I just talk about

1223
00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:41,380
the, the, the new like payment flow that

1224
00:42:41,380 --> 00:42:42,300
we've designed.

1225
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:44,100
So I think a few of the people

1226
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:46,780
in the boardroom already saw this because we

1227
00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:48,460
had one of the shows go live with

1228
00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:49,080
it this week.

1229
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:51,500
But one of the things we've launched is

1230
00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:52,860
a subscription product.

1231
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,240
The reason for this is that, well, there's

1232
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:56,840
two reasons.

1233
00:42:56,980 --> 00:43:01,180
Number one, I think the user interface mechanic

1234
00:43:01,180 --> 00:43:04,580
of a boost is incredibly powerful because you

1235
00:43:04,580 --> 00:43:06,300
get to send money, you get to send

1236
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:09,580
a message, and there's that feedback loop that

1237
00:43:09,580 --> 00:43:12,400
everyone listening to this probably knows about, but

1238
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:13,080
it's so amazing.

1239
00:43:13,220 --> 00:43:15,800
But, you know, sometimes you don't want to

1240
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,160
boost or you forget to boost.

1241
00:43:17,620 --> 00:43:20,580
And we definitely seen that, um, speaking to

1242
00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:23,280
podcasters and speaking to users of the fountain

1243
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:23,580
app.

1244
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,200
So we wanted to launch a subscription product

1245
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,140
for podcasters, um, but do it in a

1246
00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:34,220
way where it wouldn't just work in the

1247
00:43:34,220 --> 00:43:37,180
fountain app, but any podcasting 2.0 app

1248
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:40,580
could access the subscription, pay for the subscription,

1249
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,340
and also unlock the subscription benefits.

1250
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:47,680
Um, if you look at what Patreon do,

1251
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:52,200
they have obviously been incredibly successful in helping

1252
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,120
podcasters get paid and, you know, generate, um,

1253
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,100
income from their audience.

1254
00:43:59,580 --> 00:44:02,160
And the main part of that is subscription.

1255
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,500
So I think they've proved that subscriptions work.

1256
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,420
We just want to take that and put

1257
00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:09,460
it into, uh, RSS so that any app

1258
00:44:09,460 --> 00:44:10,920
can consume the subscription.

1259
00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:14,200
And then you're using a L402 for that.

1260
00:44:14,260 --> 00:44:14,640
Is that right?

1261
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:16,360
Yeah.

1262
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,060
So it, the subscription works by our combination

1263
00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:25,420
of the alternate enclosure and the L402, um,

1264
00:44:25,620 --> 00:44:26,520
spec.

1265
00:44:27,220 --> 00:44:30,200
And one thing on the L402 is that

1266
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,680
the original L402 spec, which was released by

1267
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,060
lightning labs, um, there's now a new version

1268
00:44:38,060 --> 00:44:40,540
of the L402 spec, which is about six

1269
00:44:40,540 --> 00:44:41,240
months old.

1270
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,220
And, um, that, yeah, everyone can go and

1271
00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:45,800
look into it.

1272
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,480
I think it's L402.org, uh, which is

1273
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:49,760
the documentation site.

1274
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,760
Uh, but this new version of L402 is

1275
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,980
way simpler than the old version.

1276
00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:58,120
It's way more flexible.

1277
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,960
It supports multiple currencies, multiple payment methods.

1278
00:45:03,140 --> 00:45:05,160
Um, and so we using this new version

1279
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:10,600
of L402 to essentially, uh, gate some of

1280
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,120
the content, uh, in the RSS feed.

1281
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:15,540
So it's a combination of alternate enclosure and

1282
00:45:15,540 --> 00:45:19,580
L402, and then the subscription can actually be

1283
00:45:19,580 --> 00:45:21,940
purchased via the funding tag.

1284
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,880
So, you know, I think the way that

1285
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,880
podcasters will set up these subscript subscriptions, some

1286
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,100
of them will just do a pure kind

1287
00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:36,460
of value for value subscription where you're just

1288
00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:38,680
paying for the subscription because you love the

1289
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:39,000
content.

1290
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,800
You're not getting anything in return, but then

1291
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,100
other podcasters will essentially do what they're already

1292
00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:48,600
doing on Patreon, but in a more integrated

1293
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,080
way that works in any podcast app where

1294
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,620
they do things like ad free versions or

1295
00:45:54,620 --> 00:45:57,600
early access or bonus episodes.

1296
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,300
Um, and what we've done is using alternate

1297
00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:06,500
enclosure plus L402 essentially removed the need for

1298
00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:08,020
a private RSS feed.

1299
00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:11,260
Um, so any app that wants to read

1300
00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:14,280
the feed and read the L402 response can

1301
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,720
just figure out how to surface the payment

1302
00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:19,920
to the user and then give them access

1303
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,600
to, uh, whatever that bonus content might be.

1304
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,040
I know there's a lot there.

1305
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,220
So I thought, yeah, well, I mean, so

1306
00:46:27,220 --> 00:46:31,980
if the L402 is, uh, based on the

1307
00:46:31,980 --> 00:46:35,560
new spec on a newer spec, do you

1308
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:36,960
think that it will work?

1309
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,360
Because I know true fans, uh, supports L402.

1310
00:46:40,660 --> 00:46:41,660
Do you think it would work out of

1311
00:46:41,660 --> 00:46:42,800
the box or do you think there would

1312
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,460
be some updates that Sam would need to

1313
00:46:44,460 --> 00:46:46,080
make to have that happen?

1314
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,680
I think there'd probably need to be a

1315
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,820
few updates for the new version of the

1316
00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:53,540
spec, but if you have managed to implement

1317
00:46:53,540 --> 00:46:56,000
the old spec, you'll be able to implement

1318
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,980
the new spec in about 10 minutes because

1319
00:46:57,980 --> 00:47:00,060
the difference is night and day.

1320
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:00,440
Yeah.

1321
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,820
With Grok, I'm sure 10 minutes really.

1322
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:03,980
Yeah.

1323
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:04,400
Yeah.

1324
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,360
So if, you know, we talked about this

1325
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,880
briefly earlier in the week, this, this is,

1326
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,040
I think true fans sort of set the

1327
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:25,020
direction here of not needing a third, um,

1328
00:47:25,940 --> 00:47:28,320
sort of a third party in the mix.

1329
00:47:28,620 --> 00:47:32,280
So it has always felt to date what

1330
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,420
has always felt like on just, you know,

1331
00:47:34,460 --> 00:47:36,500
on the non Bitcoin side, let's just take

1332
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:36,840
that off.

1333
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,760
You know, that has been well integrated, but

1334
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,460
on the non Bitcoin side, it has always

1335
00:47:42,460 --> 00:47:45,880
felt like you've had the, uh, you have

1336
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:52,000
the podcaster, the listener, the app, the hosting

1337
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,880
company, and then this weird sort of third

1338
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,820
party that just sits in the fifth party

1339
00:47:57,820 --> 00:48:00,860
that sits in the middle there, like Patreon,

1340
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,860
where they're going to just, they just sort

1341
00:48:03,860 --> 00:48:06,720
of insert themselves into the mix and take

1342
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:07,360
a payment.

1343
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,240
And, and you, and you have this, you

1344
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:13,260
have the hosting company and you have the

1345
00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:13,740
app.

1346
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,080
And it feels like that could just be

1347
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,020
done right there.

1348
00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:20,740
But, but for some reason they just, well,

1349
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,080
I know what the reason is, is because

1350
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,640
of the app store rules and all that.

1351
00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:27,220
For those reasons, there was always this third

1352
00:48:27,220 --> 00:48:29,440
party where you had to go around the

1353
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,160
world in order to get back to square

1354
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:31,640
one.

1355
00:48:32,340 --> 00:48:34,820
And, you know, with, with what true fans

1356
00:48:34,820 --> 00:48:37,180
was saying is no, you will just, we'll

1357
00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:38,640
just make our own Patreon.

1358
00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:40,980
You know, we'll just let, we'll just let

1359
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:43,740
the, let the Patreon exist right here within

1360
00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:46,940
the app or right here within the hosting

1361
00:48:46,940 --> 00:48:49,460
company as a bus sprout did with their

1362
00:48:49,460 --> 00:48:52,420
funding tag support where, you know, with the

1363
00:48:52,420 --> 00:48:53,980
direct payments where you can open up a

1364
00:48:53,980 --> 00:48:54,360
web view.

1365
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,580
I just feel like this, I feel like

1366
00:48:57,580 --> 00:48:59,080
when it comes to podcasting, I just don't

1367
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,420
think there's a reason anymore to have a

1368
00:49:02,420 --> 00:49:03,380
thing like Patreon.

1369
00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:07,200
I just don't think it's necessary with all

1370
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,300
the funding tag stuff.

1371
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,220
And, and now, especially with the app store

1372
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:13,980
rules getting loosened, it just feels like you

1373
00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:16,920
can have the, what that, that role that

1374
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,860
Patreon played can, can be served by the

1375
00:49:19,860 --> 00:49:22,160
hosting company and the app just working together

1376
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,120
with an open standard.

1377
00:49:24,860 --> 00:49:25,520
Yeah, exactly.

1378
00:49:25,740 --> 00:49:31,800
I think that the, the cool thing about

1379
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,600
this is that any hosting company can set

1380
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,560
up their own payment system.

1381
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,900
And also as a podcaster, if you're self

1382
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:43,500
hosting, you could also just do that yourself

1383
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:47,920
using a combination of the funding tag, the

1384
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:48,620
value block.

1385
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:52,140
And if you wanted to do premium content,

1386
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:55,400
you could use the L4O2 alternate enclosure.

1387
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,140
I think the most important thing is that

1388
00:49:59,140 --> 00:50:04,840
there's choice for podcasters and that there's interoperability

1389
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:05,280
as well.

1390
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,060
So that if somebody wants to subscribe to

1391
00:50:08,060 --> 00:50:11,400
your show, they don't have to go and

1392
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,320
listen on a specific app to do that.

1393
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,680
They can do so on web, they can

1394
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,280
do so from one app, they can do

1395
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,720
so from another app.

1396
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:21,680
And I think, you know, it's really, everything's

1397
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,400
kind of come together in the last year

1398
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,480
with the funding tag, with the alternate enclosure

1399
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,540
and with this L4O2 spec to actually allow

1400
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:29,200
that to happen.

1401
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:35,580
So can you, I'm wondering, you know, I

1402
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:36,900
don't, I know you've probably got more stuff

1403
00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:41,580
you want to talk about, but I'm thinking

1404
00:50:41,580 --> 00:50:44,480
just how far the integration goes.

1405
00:50:44,620 --> 00:50:46,520
So like, I mean, Eric PP said in

1406
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,060
the boardroom that it makes, that this makes

1407
00:50:49,060 --> 00:50:50,540
a lot of sense for you guys, because

1408
00:50:50,540 --> 00:50:53,460
people already think that Fountain was a podcast

1409
00:50:53,460 --> 00:50:56,420
host already, you know, anyway, because you allow

1410
00:50:56,420 --> 00:50:58,200
them to sign up and claim their feed

1411
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:58,880
and that kind of thing.

1412
00:50:58,940 --> 00:51:01,440
So there's kind of this, people's minds are

1413
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,580
already kind of there at that point.

1414
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:05,520
So it makes sense.

1415
00:51:05,540 --> 00:51:07,120
But how far is the integration going to

1416
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:07,340
go?

1417
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,520
Like, is it possible that you can pay

1418
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,200
your hosting, your Fountain hosting bill using your

1419
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,600
earnings from boosts?

1420
00:51:19,290 --> 00:51:21,590
Not at the moment, but that's something we

1421
00:51:21,590 --> 00:51:23,210
can potentially look at in the future.

1422
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:27,810
I think the type of podcasters that we

1423
00:51:27,810 --> 00:51:29,770
think we can help with this new product

1424
00:51:29,770 --> 00:51:33,870
are not necessarily podcasters that are familiar with

1425
00:51:33,870 --> 00:51:34,330
Bitcoin.

1426
00:51:34,610 --> 00:51:36,250
We want to make it really easy for

1427
00:51:36,250 --> 00:51:39,610
them to get paid via any payment method.

1428
00:51:39,870 --> 00:51:45,830
That's why the subscriptions and also very soon

1429
00:51:45,830 --> 00:51:49,870
the boosts will be payable with a bank

1430
00:51:49,870 --> 00:51:52,410
card and via Stripe.

1431
00:51:52,610 --> 00:51:55,070
But then the Bitcoin is there as the

1432
00:51:55,070 --> 00:51:56,610
kind of micropayments layer.

1433
00:51:56,930 --> 00:52:00,250
So and obviously the fees are much less

1434
00:52:00,250 --> 00:52:01,690
on with Bitcoin as well.

1435
00:52:01,690 --> 00:52:04,690
And I think it's important to point out

1436
00:52:04,690 --> 00:52:09,790
that subscriptions are by definition these recurrent payments

1437
00:52:09,790 --> 00:52:13,390
and they don't necessarily even have to have

1438
00:52:13,390 --> 00:52:15,050
so-called premium content.

1439
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:18,410
Some people might just want to support the

1440
00:52:18,410 --> 00:52:20,830
podcasters every month and not forget that.

1441
00:52:21,370 --> 00:52:22,030
So that's one thing.

1442
00:52:23,970 --> 00:52:26,850
Now, the other issue that I've seen people

1443
00:52:26,850 --> 00:52:30,110
discuss is this idea of value that you

1444
00:52:30,110 --> 00:52:32,130
should be able to pay the amount you

1445
00:52:32,130 --> 00:52:35,330
want in terms of what value you think

1446
00:52:35,330 --> 00:52:35,790
you receive.

1447
00:52:35,870 --> 00:52:38,590
And I think that's definitely our goal.

1448
00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:42,570
And one of the things we do think

1449
00:52:42,570 --> 00:52:45,030
about this and plan to do this is

1450
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:48,690
to allow people to have these recurrent payments

1451
00:52:48,690 --> 00:52:51,230
where people can choose how much they pay

1452
00:52:51,810 --> 00:52:52,530
every cycle.

1453
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:55,050
Yeah.

1454
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:57,910
Stephen B was asking, Bill in the boardroom

1455
00:52:57,910 --> 00:53:00,390
is asking, will this essentially, will this redefine

1456
00:53:00,390 --> 00:53:02,010
what podcasting is and steer it towards a

1457
00:53:02,010 --> 00:53:03,030
paywall model?

1458
00:53:03,310 --> 00:53:05,230
I don't, I mean, I don't think so

1459
00:53:05,230 --> 00:53:08,690
any more than what Patreon, the effect that

1460
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:11,610
Patreon and Simplecast and these private feed generators

1461
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:12,410
already have.

1462
00:53:12,830 --> 00:53:16,770
I mean, there's always, there's been this for

1463
00:53:16,770 --> 00:53:18,150
a long time where you're going to have

1464
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:19,910
some of your content paywalled and that kind

1465
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:20,250
of thing.

1466
00:53:21,130 --> 00:53:22,930
I mean, I just think that this is,

1467
00:53:23,890 --> 00:53:26,410
it doesn't feel like it's pushing any more

1468
00:53:26,410 --> 00:53:27,650
in that direction to me.

1469
00:53:27,790 --> 00:53:29,390
It just feels like it's making it in

1470
00:53:29,390 --> 00:53:30,950
the app and rather than having to use

1471
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:31,590
a third party.

1472
00:53:31,890 --> 00:53:31,990
Yeah.

1473
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:34,930
And, and we discussed specifically for Curry and

1474
00:53:34,930 --> 00:53:36,790
the Keeper, and this is something that, you

1475
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:38,690
know, we'll do is like, we'll use their

1476
00:53:38,690 --> 00:53:42,750
mechanism for, you know, the so-called private

1477
00:53:42,750 --> 00:53:45,750
feed, but it'll just be the exact same

1478
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:48,770
podcast, except you get a badge.

1479
00:53:49,490 --> 00:53:51,190
You get a badge that you're a, you're

1480
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:52,710
a supporter and you'll be able to do

1481
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:54,670
just a one-time, a one-time payment.

1482
00:53:55,490 --> 00:53:58,390
So it's not necessary in our case, we're

1483
00:53:58,390 --> 00:54:00,770
using the mechanism to unlock, but you're not

1484
00:54:00,770 --> 00:54:01,670
unlocking anything.

1485
00:54:01,770 --> 00:54:05,250
You're getting the same, the same program.

1486
00:54:05,570 --> 00:54:07,590
You're just sending a one-time payment.

1487
00:54:07,770 --> 00:54:09,010
Am I, am I saying that correct?

1488
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:11,250
Yeah, exactly.

1489
00:54:11,370 --> 00:54:14,550
The subscription product is just a way to

1490
00:54:14,550 --> 00:54:17,990
support the show on a monthly basis without

1491
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:19,530
having to remember to boost.

1492
00:54:19,690 --> 00:54:23,410
It's no different from the Boost CLI script.

1493
00:54:23,830 --> 00:54:25,650
You know, it just sends a payment once

1494
00:54:25,650 --> 00:54:26,110
a month.

1495
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:30,150
And then if podcasters want to, they can

1496
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:34,330
use the bonus content feature as well.

1497
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:37,070
And that is more aimed at people who

1498
00:54:37,070 --> 00:54:41,310
are already doing that via Patreon or Memberful

1499
00:54:41,310 --> 00:54:44,150
or some of these other private feed generators,

1500
00:54:44,790 --> 00:54:49,090
except that it allows us to maintain the

1501
00:54:49,090 --> 00:54:49,970
main feed.

1502
00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:52,050
I think like another thing that's been so

1503
00:54:52,050 --> 00:54:55,070
great about the Podcasting 2.0 spec is

1504
00:54:55,070 --> 00:54:59,010
the GUID because it allows us, and one

1505
00:54:59,010 --> 00:55:00,270
thing I'd love to talk about as well

1506
00:55:00,270 --> 00:55:03,910
is the metadata around LN address.

1507
00:55:04,030 --> 00:55:05,290
Cause I know that's still kind of an

1508
00:55:05,290 --> 00:55:09,870
unresolved thing, but whatever the solution for metadata

1509
00:55:09,870 --> 00:55:14,630
around comments or boosts ends up being, the

1510
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:16,890
thing that will tie everything together is the

1511
00:55:16,890 --> 00:55:17,210
GUID.

1512
00:55:17,350 --> 00:55:19,750
Without the GUID, it would never be possible

1513
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:21,490
to do in an open way.

1514
00:55:22,830 --> 00:55:25,290
And obviously if you have like a private

1515
00:55:25,290 --> 00:55:27,590
feed where everything's off in a completely different

1516
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:30,370
place, it kind of breaks a lot of

1517
00:55:30,370 --> 00:55:30,570
that.

1518
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:34,370
So yeah, the subscription serves two purposes.

1519
00:55:34,610 --> 00:55:36,930
One, it's just a way to do recurring

1520
00:55:36,930 --> 00:55:37,490
support.

1521
00:55:37,850 --> 00:55:40,470
And the other is, it's a way to

1522
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:43,490
try and avoid the terrible UX of private

1523
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:43,850
feeds.

1524
00:55:44,690 --> 00:55:45,050
Yeah.

1525
00:55:45,450 --> 00:55:45,670
Yeah.

1526
00:55:45,670 --> 00:55:46,190
Private feed.

1527
00:55:46,310 --> 00:55:49,990
I think everybody hates them, but there never

1528
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:52,950
was a better way around it.

1529
00:55:53,450 --> 00:55:58,470
And then the alternate enclosure wanted to solve

1530
00:55:58,470 --> 00:56:00,550
that problem, but then it needed L402.

1531
00:56:01,210 --> 00:56:03,310
And so that's been a slow roll.

1532
00:56:03,310 --> 00:56:07,130
I mean, it's, I think this is, I

1533
00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:09,250
know Sam will be happy about this cause

1534
00:56:09,250 --> 00:56:11,690
it means somebody could create an audio book

1535
00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:16,170
on, you know, an audio book with L402

1536
00:56:16,170 --> 00:56:19,890
on Fountain Hosting and then sell it on

1537
00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:20,330
TruFans.

1538
00:56:20,770 --> 00:56:22,750
And I think that's, I mean, that just

1539
00:56:22,750 --> 00:56:23,650
makes a lot of sense.

1540
00:56:24,650 --> 00:56:28,670
Is this, this is a full rewrite from,

1541
00:56:28,770 --> 00:56:31,190
you said from the ground up for the

1542
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:32,250
RSS Blue code.

1543
00:56:32,370 --> 00:56:34,370
You, you, you started over from scratch, Dobi

1544
00:56:34,370 --> 00:56:34,630
Das?

1545
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:37,030
That's correct.

1546
00:56:37,150 --> 00:56:37,330
Yeah.

1547
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:41,490
RSS Blue was built on a bunch of

1548
00:56:41,490 --> 00:56:44,770
different random programming languages ranging from Go to

1549
00:56:44,770 --> 00:56:48,110
Rust and JavaScript, of course, and even Python.

1550
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:52,830
But yes, all and everything is now in

1551
00:56:52,830 --> 00:56:55,630
TypeScript, my new favorite programming language.

1552
00:56:57,090 --> 00:56:58,430
I forgive you, by the way, I forgive

1553
00:56:58,430 --> 00:56:58,650
you.

1554
00:57:00,670 --> 00:57:04,310
I'm assuming you had a chance as usually

1555
00:57:04,310 --> 00:57:05,470
the way these things go.

1556
00:57:06,090 --> 00:57:08,550
I'm assuming you, you had a chance to

1557
00:57:08,550 --> 00:57:10,470
sort of like fix some of the sins

1558
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:12,770
of the past with, with RSS Blue and,

1559
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:14,190
and make things better.

1560
00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:16,770
Absolutely.

1561
00:57:16,930 --> 00:57:17,110
Yeah.

1562
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:22,570
When you design things the second time, yeah,

1563
00:57:22,690 --> 00:57:27,110
they're much fewer places where you just shoot

1564
00:57:27,110 --> 00:57:27,910
yourself in the foot.

1565
00:57:29,250 --> 00:57:32,370
But yes, it was, a lot of it

1566
00:57:32,370 --> 00:57:34,950
was rethinking the same ideas, but it was

1567
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:40,350
also developing new things that RSS Blue didn't

1568
00:57:40,350 --> 00:57:40,690
have.

1569
00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:43,970
One of the most fundamental things RSS Blue

1570
00:57:43,970 --> 00:57:47,670
didn't have was download analytics, which, you know,

1571
00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:51,270
was a huge job to build.

1572
00:57:51,810 --> 00:57:54,570
But yes, that's what we've been doing the

1573
00:57:54,570 --> 00:58:00,150
past few months, developing, essentially, analytics for audience,

1574
00:58:01,010 --> 00:58:04,990
for downloads for monetization, tying all of this

1575
00:58:04,990 --> 00:58:07,970
together and making sure it works across the

1576
00:58:07,970 --> 00:58:08,490
other apps.

1577
00:58:09,250 --> 00:58:11,850
And again, it is being actively built and

1578
00:58:11,850 --> 00:58:13,290
developed, you know, even today.

1579
00:58:14,610 --> 00:58:15,130
Yes.

1580
00:58:16,050 --> 00:58:19,570
Analytics and metrics are the, and stats are

1581
00:58:19,570 --> 00:58:22,890
the, they're the, the bane of every podcast

1582
00:58:22,890 --> 00:58:23,150
host.

1583
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:25,630
You have to have them, but you just

1584
00:58:25,630 --> 00:58:28,150
despise them because they, you know, you end

1585
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:30,110
up with, yeah, you end up with terabytes

1586
00:58:30,110 --> 00:58:32,930
of information that just, you know, you have

1587
00:58:32,930 --> 00:58:35,830
to keep around and the databases become gigantic.

1588
00:58:35,830 --> 00:58:38,150
It's just, it's always such a mess.

1589
00:58:39,370 --> 00:58:39,970
Yeah.

1590
00:58:40,410 --> 00:58:43,550
The analytics part and the things you discussed

1591
00:58:43,550 --> 00:58:45,890
earlier today.

1592
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:47,850
Yeah, that seems very relevant.

1593
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:50,370
And I think what Fountain wants to achieve

1594
00:58:50,370 --> 00:58:54,370
is having money as a much better signal

1595
00:58:54,370 --> 00:58:59,110
than downloads, listens, follows, or subscribers.

1596
00:58:59,850 --> 00:59:01,950
All of these are a signal, but at

1597
00:59:01,950 --> 00:59:04,250
the end of the day, at the end

1598
00:59:04,250 --> 00:59:05,890
of the day, like if you can buy

1599
00:59:05,890 --> 00:59:08,930
something with the things you earn, that's, that's

1600
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:09,250
value.

1601
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:20,840
So are you publishing any documentation about this

1602
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,700
to make it easy for app developers to

1603
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:29,080
play along or potential hosting companies who want

1604
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,640
to see what you're doing and also try

1605
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:32,600
and catch up to speed?

1606
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:35,040
Yeah, definitely.

1607
00:59:35,620 --> 00:59:37,700
It's been a bit of a mad week

1608
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:40,240
because we've just, you know, gone live with

1609
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,960
a couple of the first feeds.

1610
00:59:43,420 --> 00:59:44,080
But yeah, definitely.

1611
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,040
I'm going to write up a full kind

1612
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,120
of blog post about how we're doing everything

1613
00:59:50,580 --> 00:59:54,340
in terms of the alternate enclosure, the funding

1614
00:59:54,340 --> 00:59:58,980
tag and the L4O2 response.

1615
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,000
I think that for anyone that's interested, I

1616
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,440
think going to the L4O2.org site and

1617
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,320
having a look at the documentation there is

1618
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:10,360
a great place to start.

1619
01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:13,780
The alternate enclosure stuff that we're doing is

1620
01:00:13,780 --> 01:00:17,680
no different really from the current alternate enclosure.

1621
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,960
One thing I did want to talk about,

1622
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,520
though, is an idea that we've had around

1623
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:32,940
the funding tag, which kind of comes into

1624
01:00:32,940 --> 01:00:36,680
the discussion around metadata for boosts and comments.

1625
01:00:36,900 --> 01:00:39,780
Obviously, one issue that has been raised with

1626
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:42,720
airline address is that there's not an agreed

1627
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,440
upon way to share or publish metadata around

1628
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,880
the boost, like the various stuff that was

1629
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:50,660
in the TLV.

1630
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:58,640
I think three of the most important things

1631
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,140
in the TLV are the name of the

1632
01:01:01,140 --> 01:01:06,140
person supporting the message and then also the

1633
01:01:06,140 --> 01:01:07,400
sender ID.

1634
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,120
The reason the sender ID is really important

1635
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,260
is because that allows you, just like you

1636
01:01:14,260 --> 01:01:16,520
were talking about earlier, Dave, with the UL

1637
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,760
ID, that allows you to maintain the uniqueness

1638
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,560
of that supporter and not have duplicate boosts

1639
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,320
show up on the boost board or duplicate

1640
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:28,200
profiles.

1641
01:01:30,020 --> 01:01:34,280
One idea that we had is to extend

1642
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,160
the funding tag to try and put some

1643
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,260
of this data, or not actually put it

1644
01:01:42,260 --> 01:01:44,620
in the funding tag, but signal to apps

1645
01:01:44,620 --> 01:01:48,200
that the funding tag would accept this additional

1646
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,200
data in the funding tag URL as query

1647
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:51,720
parameters.

1648
01:01:53,300 --> 01:01:59,660
As an example, let's say you are reading

1649
01:01:59,660 --> 01:02:01,260
a random RSS feed.

1650
01:02:01,380 --> 01:02:02,640
It doesn't have to be from Fountain.

1651
01:02:03,220 --> 01:02:05,640
Maybe it's a self-hosted RSS feed.

1652
01:02:06,060 --> 01:02:08,380
There's a funding tag in that feed.

1653
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,080
There's a URL in that feed, which is

1654
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,400
somedomain.com donate.

1655
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,200
If that URL, if that funding tag could

1656
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,160
signal to the app to say, hey, if

1657
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,740
you pass these query parameters, name, maybe ULID,

1658
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,440
maybe message, if you include these in the

1659
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,300
query parameters, I will pass on that data

1660
01:02:33,300 --> 01:02:34,580
to the podcaster.

1661
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:41,900
If we could define the set of parameters

1662
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:45,060
that could be signalled from the feed to

1663
01:02:45,060 --> 01:02:47,520
the app, then I think we solve part

1664
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,820
of the problem around metadata, which is at

1665
01:02:49,820 --> 01:02:52,340
least what are the most critical things that

1666
01:02:52,340 --> 01:02:53,540
we do need to pass on.

1667
01:02:54,940 --> 01:02:56,760
I've seen a lot of this talk in

1668
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,060
the boardroom is leave it up to the

1669
01:02:59,060 --> 01:03:01,820
podcaster to decide where the metadata goes.

1670
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,840
Well, if they can signal that via the

1671
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,580
funding tag, then it is up to them.

1672
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,400
So you're talking about something that's kind of

1673
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,800
like, what do they call it?

1674
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,620
What are they, the UTM, like Urchin, like

1675
01:03:20,620 --> 01:03:21,340
the Urchin.

1676
01:03:22,060 --> 01:03:22,620
Yeah.

1677
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,300
UTM parameters that you can add on that

1678
01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:28,740
just everybody understands what these things are.

1679
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,900
Is that kind of what you're talking about?

1680
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:32,240
Exactly.

1681
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:32,600
Yeah.

1682
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,840
And we actually, in the, I think John

1683
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,520
Spurlock was complaining earlier because we had a

1684
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,500
bug in one of our feeds, but actually

1685
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:42,920
that feed, I'm just trying to find it

1686
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:44,280
now and I'll put it in the boardroom.

1687
01:03:45,260 --> 01:03:47,860
But that feed, it's like a, it's our

1688
01:03:47,860 --> 01:03:49,060
fountain radio feed.

1689
01:03:50,340 --> 01:03:52,140
And if you look at the fountain radio

1690
01:03:52,140 --> 01:03:54,720
feed, let me just stick this in the

1691
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:55,640
boardroom quickly.

1692
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,280
But I'll put it in podcast index dot

1693
01:03:59,280 --> 01:03:59,640
social.

1694
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:01,140
But if you look at that feed and

1695
01:04:01,140 --> 01:04:03,400
you look at the funding tag, we've actually

1696
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,640
put in these things as a, as like

1697
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:06,140
a test.

1698
01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:08,720
And the ones that we've put in there

1699
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,900
are the ULID because I think looking back

1700
01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:16,160
at what you wrote up around that Dave,

1701
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,360
it just solves so many issues around analytics.

1702
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:21,920
Obviously we're big on NOS though.

1703
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:23,700
We don't need to cover that again.

1704
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:25,080
So we put the end pub in there

1705
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,460
because that's a great way to distinguish unique

1706
01:04:27,460 --> 01:04:28,900
profiles.

1707
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:30,520
And then we put the name and the

1708
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:31,200
message in there.

1709
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,260
So these are like, if you, you know,

1710
01:04:34,300 --> 01:04:36,000
if you go to that URL, and by

1711
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,320
the way, that URL is not currently active.

1712
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:41,340
So this isn't fully working, but we wanted

1713
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:44,660
to put in here alongside the idea.

1714
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:48,020
If you, if an app includes those parameters

1715
01:04:48,020 --> 01:04:51,120
with values, then that will be passed through

1716
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,820
to the podcaster as metadata.

1717
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,780
What this also would allow apps to do

1718
01:04:56,780 --> 01:05:00,320
is build the donation UI natively without having

1719
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,660
to defer to whatever the funding tag URL

1720
01:05:02,660 --> 01:05:02,980
is.

1721
01:05:03,380 --> 01:05:06,180
So for example, if you had a show

1722
01:05:06,180 --> 01:05:09,480
hosted on fountain with a funding tag, you

1723
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,380
had a self-hosted show with a funding

1724
01:05:11,380 --> 01:05:13,960
tag, and you had a show hosted on

1725
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,060
Buzzsprout with a funding tag.

1726
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,420
If you're using an app, the way that

1727
01:05:19,420 --> 01:05:25,020
you, you know, choose your amount and write

1728
01:05:25,020 --> 01:05:28,840
your message and press support would be exactly

1729
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:29,280
the same.

1730
01:05:29,380 --> 01:05:30,680
It would be native within the app.

1731
01:05:30,700 --> 01:05:32,480
And then you just pass that through to

1732
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,540
the funding tag URL.

1733
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,600
So the kind of like funding service can

1734
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:38,960
pick that up and put it into the

1735
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:39,400
metadata.

1736
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:41,640
Let me break down what you said real

1737
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,160
quick, just to make sure that I understand.

1738
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:44,160
And I think I do.

1739
01:05:44,300 --> 01:05:45,940
And that, and that is clear to people.

1740
01:05:46,340 --> 01:05:49,700
I think what you're saying is if you,

1741
01:05:50,380 --> 01:05:52,540
by that last statement is that if you

1742
01:05:52,540 --> 01:05:54,660
have, if you, if you lay the funding

1743
01:05:54,660 --> 01:05:57,480
tag out, if we add these parent, these

1744
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:01,200
extra parameter option to the funding tag, that

1745
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,420
that would allow you to make it more

1746
01:06:04,420 --> 01:06:07,360
than simply a web, sort of a web

1747
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,560
UI view that you open like a web

1748
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:09,980
sheet.

1749
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,800
And it would allow you to actually bring

1750
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,540
it more into the app as a native,

1751
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,740
as a native donation button, because the behind

1752
01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:24,540
the scenes URL and the parameter list would,

1753
01:06:24,740 --> 01:06:27,640
but the app could just assemble that themselves

1754
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,560
and do it directly rather than having to

1755
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:30,540
open up a website.

1756
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:32,660
Yeah, exactly.

1757
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:33,800
Okay.

1758
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:34,960
It's yeah.

1759
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,780
You can basically imagine that the apps could

1760
01:06:38,780 --> 01:06:42,040
simply redirect to the URL without any of

1761
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,760
the query parameters and the hosting company like

1762
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,760
fountain could handle the interface.

1763
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,040
But if we see those parameters, all we

1764
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:53,080
basically need to do is confirm that, you

1765
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:54,200
know, you want to pay this amount of

1766
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:55,840
this message with this name.

1767
01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:02,040
And, you know, any payment methods that you

1768
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:02,380
prefer.

1769
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:04,520
Okay.

1770
01:07:04,740 --> 01:07:04,940
Yeah.

1771
01:07:04,940 --> 01:07:06,540
That's, that's really interesting.

1772
01:07:06,620 --> 01:07:08,360
Are you going to put that, are you

1773
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:09,800
going to write something up for that and

1774
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:10,580
submit it?

1775
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,680
Oscar, do you want somebody else to do

1776
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:12,880
that?

1777
01:07:13,980 --> 01:07:15,800
Yeah, I can definitely write this up.

1778
01:07:15,900 --> 01:07:17,580
And I mean, the first thing is to

1779
01:07:17,580 --> 01:07:18,160
get it working.

1780
01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:19,520
It's almost working.

1781
01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:20,800
We were rushing to try and get it

1782
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,340
done before the show today, but we didn't

1783
01:07:22,340 --> 01:07:23,160
quite get it there.

1784
01:07:23,260 --> 01:07:24,940
But yeah, this is going to be working

1785
01:07:24,940 --> 01:07:29,600
in this test feed later today or tomorrow.

1786
01:07:30,340 --> 01:07:32,640
And so you'll actually be able to hopefully

1787
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,440
what you'll be able to do is send

1788
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,840
a boost to this show with a bank

1789
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:41,460
card, but also you'll be able to pre

1790
01:07:41,460 --> 01:07:45,980
-fill any of this information so that and

1791
01:07:45,980 --> 01:07:48,380
also this will flow through obviously on the

1792
01:07:48,380 --> 01:07:50,260
fountain show pages and episodes.

1793
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,420
We have the boosts that show up.

1794
01:07:53,740 --> 01:07:55,980
This will also flow through into the booth.

1795
01:07:56,140 --> 01:07:59,140
So if you, if you open this funding

1796
01:07:59,140 --> 01:08:02,700
tag URL in a web browser, you fill

1797
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:05,740
out the information on the fountain website, and

1798
01:08:05,740 --> 01:08:08,000
then you pay with your bank card, a

1799
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,100
boost activity item will be created on the

1800
01:08:11,100 --> 01:08:11,460
page.

1801
01:08:11,980 --> 01:08:14,360
But if you were to, you know, auto

1802
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,560
fill that via the query parameters, a boost

1803
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:17,680
would also be created.

1804
01:08:18,340 --> 01:08:20,979
And the profiles around those boosts would be

1805
01:08:20,979 --> 01:08:23,160
tied to the ULIDs as well, or the

1806
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,399
end pubs if you want to use Nostra,

1807
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,200
but we put the ULID in there to,

1808
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:32,760
um, yeah, like give app developers that didn't

1809
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,920
want to use Nostra a different way to

1810
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:35,979
identify supporters.

1811
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,439
This is, I think, I think all the

1812
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:42,340
hosting companies that support the funding tag, which

1813
01:08:42,340 --> 01:08:43,920
is quite a few now.

1814
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,740
I think they would all appreciate that.

1815
01:08:46,899 --> 01:08:48,760
I don't, I don't think, I think that

1816
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,319
would be a welcome addition to the spec.

1817
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,080
I'm happy to hear that.

1818
01:08:55,100 --> 01:08:57,680
Especially if we have like, you know, an

1819
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,540
example feed to point to, to just kind

1820
01:08:59,540 --> 01:09:01,040
of so that the app developers can work

1821
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:02,700
out exactly what to do with it and

1822
01:09:02,700 --> 01:09:04,359
that kind of thing that that's excellent, Oscar.

1823
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:07,200
Cool.

1824
01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:09,660
Well, yeah, hopefully the demo should be available

1825
01:09:09,660 --> 01:09:10,380
very soon.

1826
01:09:10,819 --> 01:09:13,140
And, um, yeah, again, like this is, this

1827
01:09:13,140 --> 01:09:14,340
is just an idea.

1828
01:09:14,819 --> 01:09:17,740
Um, but I do think that this metadata

1829
01:09:17,740 --> 01:09:22,060
problem around boosts, um, we do need to

1830
01:09:22,060 --> 01:09:24,160
come up with a solution to it because,

1831
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:28,180
um, yeah, I do think LN address is

1832
01:09:28,180 --> 01:09:30,760
still the right way to go with, you

1833
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,220
know, cash app and it just removes, it

1834
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:37,080
removes so much confusion and we do need

1835
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:38,319
a metadata solution.

1836
01:09:38,819 --> 01:09:42,420
So yeah, the starting point for the metadata

1837
01:09:42,420 --> 01:09:44,800
solution is what are the, what is the

1838
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,080
important data that we need to pass around

1839
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:47,380
here?

1840
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:49,920
Numbers and text.

1841
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:51,319
That's it.

1842
01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:54,420
It's really it.

1843
01:09:54,540 --> 01:09:56,840
I mean, you just want the, you want

1844
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:02,700
the intended amount, uh, reporting fees anywhere, but

1845
01:10:02,700 --> 01:10:04,700
you want, cause you know, numerology is important

1846
01:10:04,700 --> 01:10:05,420
and the message.

1847
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:07,220
And I don't really don't care.

1848
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,020
I mean, I would expect all of that

1849
01:10:09,020 --> 01:10:10,920
to show up in my hosting dashboard, quite

1850
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:11,280
honestly.

1851
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,040
I mean, I think that's the obvious way

1852
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:13,640
for it to go.

1853
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:14,740
And I think that's what you guys are

1854
01:10:14,740 --> 01:10:15,400
trying to do.

1855
01:10:16,660 --> 01:10:17,540
Yeah, definitely.

1856
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:21,200
It's that, but it's also really fun if

1857
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,000
you can actually group the payments over time

1858
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,040
and attribute them to certain individuals.

1859
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,860
So, you know, if someone boosts you 10

1860
01:10:30,860 --> 01:10:34,040
times, it's cool to see those 10 payments

1861
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:35,980
come in, but you also want to see

1862
01:10:35,980 --> 01:10:36,480
the totals.

1863
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,920
And I think the, uh, the issue of

1864
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,820
ideas or identities is very relevant here.

1865
01:10:44,820 --> 01:10:46,440
And how do we solve that?

1866
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,080
Well, yeah, that, that could be challenging.

1867
01:10:51,820 --> 01:10:54,600
Um, people switch wallets, all kinds of stuff,

1868
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,520
but in general, I mean, you're right.

1869
01:10:56,660 --> 01:10:59,180
It, uh, the process for me is, you

1870
01:10:59,180 --> 01:11:01,780
know, I, I export the, uh, the CSV

1871
01:11:01,780 --> 01:11:04,240
file from helipad and figure it out.

1872
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:09,600
Well, you know, you could, um, uh, Spurlock

1873
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,500
posted something earlier, uh, to, to it was

1874
01:11:12,500 --> 01:11:14,360
yesterday, I think it was yesterday passing through

1875
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,580
a blog post from CloudFlare about, uh, HTTP

1876
01:11:17,580 --> 01:11:22,000
signing, um, and how that's going to be

1877
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,140
a strategy they're going to use for, uh,

1878
01:11:24,140 --> 01:11:26,080
fighting bot bot traffic.

1879
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:27,400
And I want to talk a lot about

1880
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,900
that next time we have a board meeting,

1881
01:11:29,940 --> 01:11:31,260
because I think it's, I think it's a

1882
01:11:31,260 --> 01:11:33,500
kind of a huge deal that we can

1883
01:11:33,500 --> 01:11:35,880
adopt in podcasting so that, that might have

1884
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:36,760
something to do with it too.

1885
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:38,700
We might want to, the apps may start

1886
01:11:38,700 --> 01:11:40,960
wanting, uh, may, may be able to sign

1887
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,740
these, uh, requests.

1888
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:45,700
Are you being swatted, Dave?

1889
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:47,540
Is someone swatting you in the background?

1890
01:11:47,620 --> 01:11:49,380
No, I think Dovi Das and, uh, and

1891
01:11:49,380 --> 01:11:51,020
Oscar, I think they're doing this from the,

1892
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:51,900
uh, hospital.

1893
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:53,100
I think they're, yeah.

1894
01:11:53,180 --> 01:11:53,920
Oh, okay.

1895
01:11:54,460 --> 01:11:56,220
I was wondering what the, let me go

1896
01:11:56,220 --> 01:11:56,540
on mute.

1897
01:11:56,740 --> 01:11:58,180
You're being swatted, man.

1898
01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:58,920
What's happening?

1899
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,840
No, it's, um, I keep waiting for the

1900
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:02,740
PA to come in.

1901
01:12:02,820 --> 01:12:05,440
You know, Oscar, Oscar, you're in the grocery

1902
01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:05,740
store.

1903
01:12:06,220 --> 01:12:08,780
Um, but no, I think, you know, that

1904
01:12:08,780 --> 01:12:11,340
could also be a, it'd be a solution

1905
01:12:11,340 --> 01:12:14,540
to the sort of, um, identity verification piece

1906
01:12:14,540 --> 01:12:17,120
is that, you know, the app, the, the

1907
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:20,460
podcast apps could, could sign those HTTP requests

1908
01:12:20,460 --> 01:12:22,120
with the donation link and that kind of

1909
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:22,260
thing.

1910
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,320
I mean, I think that's why this has

1911
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:25,320
been hard.

1912
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,420
It was very easy to just jam a

1913
01:12:28,420 --> 01:12:29,900
bunch of stuff in a TLV record and

1914
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:31,260
be done with it, but there was never

1915
01:12:31,260 --> 01:12:32,200
any verification.

1916
01:12:32,780 --> 01:12:34,680
There was never any way to be sure

1917
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:38,080
this person actually sent you anything.

1918
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,600
So, I mean, they could, they could send

1919
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,340
you five sats and claim they sent you

1920
01:12:42,340 --> 01:12:45,360
5 million and you had, you just, there

1921
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:46,300
was no way to verify.

1922
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:49,700
So, you know, I think other than just

1923
01:12:49,700 --> 01:12:51,180
looking at the balance and saying, oh, well,

1924
01:12:51,180 --> 01:12:52,100
that doesn't make any sense.

1925
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:52,860
Right.

1926
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,460
And so I think the verification piece is

1927
01:12:55,460 --> 01:12:57,240
probably, is, is the thing that makes it

1928
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:57,640
difficult.

1929
01:12:57,820 --> 01:13:00,240
So when you do, it's funny enough, when

1930
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:01,820
you do something the right way, it actually

1931
01:13:01,820 --> 01:13:05,600
takes longer, you know, configure more intricate.

1932
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:06,000
Yeah.

1933
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:10,240
But, um, so how far, I mean, how

1934
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,160
far does the integration go when I, are

1935
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,720
you going to go like all the way

1936
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:17,980
down to where somebody can launch a podcast

1937
01:13:17,980 --> 01:13:19,640
from within the Fountain app?

1938
01:13:22,450 --> 01:13:25,770
Um, I don't, not in the short term,

1939
01:13:25,850 --> 01:13:26,210
definitely.

1940
01:13:26,370 --> 01:13:29,410
I think, you know, there's, there's enough to

1941
01:13:29,410 --> 01:13:33,050
take on in terms of just taking what

1942
01:13:33,050 --> 01:13:37,790
we have already with lightning boost, streaming stats,

1943
01:13:38,170 --> 01:13:41,790
value for value, the social activity around Nosta

1944
01:13:41,790 --> 01:13:45,790
and just, and just merging that with, you

1945
01:13:45,790 --> 01:13:48,490
know, what you'd expect from a podcast hosting

1946
01:13:48,490 --> 01:13:49,210
platform.

1947
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:50,810
So that's the main focus.

1948
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:55,040
Okay.

1949
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:55,520
Yeah.

1950
01:13:55,540 --> 01:13:59,180
I just think about like anchor, um, you

1951
01:13:59,180 --> 01:14:02,580
know, when you think about an, when you

1952
01:14:02,580 --> 01:14:04,640
think about an app and a podcast host,

1953
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:09,300
both, you think about that, that, that sort

1954
01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:10,920
of like spin up a, spin up a

1955
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,500
podcast from an app and that, that sort

1956
01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:15,300
of experience.

1957
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:20,320
And, you know, while it seems like this

1958
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,080
sort of like natural thing, oh yeah, yeah,

1959
01:14:23,180 --> 01:14:24,440
that, that makes a lot of sense.

1960
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,520
But you see what happened to them, you

1961
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,440
know, before, you know, you just get, you

1962
01:14:30,440 --> 01:14:34,240
just get like, you know, millions of, of,

1963
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:35,100
of garbage.

1964
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,660
Test one, two, test one, two, check, check

1965
01:14:38,660 --> 01:14:39,240
two.

1966
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:41,300
I'm a podcaster.

1967
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:45,440
I would say, I would say tread, tread

1968
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:47,260
lightly if you ever decide to go that

1969
01:14:47,260 --> 01:14:47,580
route.

1970
01:14:47,780 --> 01:14:48,080
Kidding.

1971
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,340
Um, yeah, I think I'd also, I don't

1972
01:14:53,340 --> 01:14:53,580
know.

1973
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:57,160
I don't know if any podcaster would actually

1974
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,840
want to manage their show from a mobile

1975
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:02,160
app.

1976
01:15:02,340 --> 01:15:06,140
Um, I feel like the workflow is better

1977
01:15:06,140 --> 01:15:09,180
suited to, you know, sitting down at your,

1978
01:15:09,340 --> 01:15:12,200
at your computer and doing it that way.

1979
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,260
Except for live wall switching.

1980
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:16,380
You must have that on your mobile.

1981
01:15:19,940 --> 01:15:22,300
Are you, um, are you going to make

1982
01:15:22,300 --> 01:15:22,900
any changes?

1983
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,080
Just, uh, a thought here.

1984
01:15:25,380 --> 01:15:27,460
Are you going, are you making any changes

1985
01:15:27,460 --> 01:15:30,740
or have anything planned based on Apple's, uh,

1986
01:15:30,740 --> 01:15:34,280
app store relaxing of, of the rules in

1987
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:35,980
the U S as fountain going to change

1988
01:15:35,980 --> 01:15:36,580
anything there?

1989
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,840
I mean, we want to be careful, um,

1990
01:15:42,300 --> 01:15:45,140
with any risks that we take on that

1991
01:15:45,140 --> 01:15:47,480
side of things, but I think that it's

1992
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:52,200
great for, you know, open payments within native

1993
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:53,280
apps, the ruling.

1994
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:56,460
And I think it's definitely encouraged us to,

1995
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,360
you know, be bold, push a little bit

1996
01:15:59,360 --> 01:15:59,660
more.

1997
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,980
Um, I think the most important thing with,

1998
01:16:02,220 --> 01:16:05,900
with Apple and their regulations is that this

1999
01:16:05,900 --> 01:16:09,520
cannot be a system that only works within

2000
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,240
one app within the fountain app.

2001
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,520
It needs to be an open payment system.

2002
01:16:15,220 --> 01:16:17,460
And that's actually when we first launched the

2003
01:16:17,460 --> 01:16:20,940
app, you know, whenever it was initially, they

2004
01:16:20,940 --> 01:16:22,780
rejected the app and they said, what are

2005
01:16:22,780 --> 01:16:23,360
you doing?

2006
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,540
You know, payments, you're sending payments to content

2007
01:16:26,540 --> 01:16:27,020
creators.

2008
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,220
You need to use the in-app purchase

2009
01:16:29,220 --> 01:16:29,760
system.

2010
01:16:30,460 --> 01:16:33,580
And we said to them, um, no, this

2011
01:16:33,580 --> 01:16:36,680
is actually, you know, many podcasters have their

2012
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:37,320
own wallets.

2013
01:16:37,460 --> 01:16:39,140
It's encoded in the RSS feed.

2014
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,140
If you have a podcast, it's no different

2015
01:16:42,140 --> 01:16:44,540
from having a website and you're allowed to

2016
01:16:44,540 --> 01:16:47,080
go to a website in Safari and make

2017
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:47,460
a payment.

2018
01:16:47,460 --> 01:16:49,240
You're allowed to go to websites in apps.

2019
01:16:49,380 --> 01:16:49,760
So I think.

2020
01:16:49,860 --> 01:16:51,740
I never knew that story, Oscar.

2021
01:16:51,860 --> 01:16:52,600
I didn't know that.

2022
01:16:52,660 --> 01:16:54,480
I never heard that story that you initially

2023
01:16:54,480 --> 01:16:57,300
got blocked with the early, the early stuff.

2024
01:16:59,200 --> 01:16:59,360
Yeah.

2025
01:16:59,580 --> 01:16:59,800
Yeah.

2026
01:16:59,900 --> 01:17:02,080
I mean, it wasn't really like a, it

2027
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:03,420
wasn't really a block.

2028
01:17:03,540 --> 01:17:05,360
It was more like, can we have some

2029
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,380
clarifying information on what you're doing here with,

2030
01:17:08,420 --> 01:17:09,100
with Bitcoin?

2031
01:17:10,100 --> 01:17:12,620
I think you emailed me about that when

2032
01:17:12,620 --> 01:17:13,160
it first happened.

2033
01:17:13,340 --> 01:17:13,580
I don't remember that.

2034
01:17:13,780 --> 01:17:14,480
That's interesting.

2035
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:18,160
Cause I, I think we talked about that

2036
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:20,280
maybe privately over email and we're trying to,

2037
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,860
you know, uh, that sounds familiar.

2038
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:25,220
It's been so long.

2039
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:26,280
Yeah.

2040
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:27,820
It's been too many years.

2041
01:17:28,660 --> 01:17:30,000
Uh, I think y'all were in beta

2042
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:30,520
at the time.

2043
01:17:30,780 --> 01:17:32,340
I'm going to, uh, I'm going to wrap

2044
01:17:32,340 --> 01:17:34,380
this up, uh, Dave, to get you back

2045
01:17:34,380 --> 01:17:35,800
to the day job on time.

2046
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:37,640
Any other final questions you have for the

2047
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:38,600
boys now that we have them?

2048
01:17:39,860 --> 01:17:41,640
Uh, no, I'm no good.

2049
01:17:41,900 --> 01:17:43,360
It's, uh, I think I'm out.

2050
01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:45,180
I've got my list satisfied.

2051
01:17:45,340 --> 01:17:46,780
Your list is satisfied.

2052
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,360
Oscar and David, thank you so much.

2053
01:17:49,440 --> 01:17:51,240
Not just for being here in the board

2054
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,320
meeting today, but also for doing this, for

2055
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:54,240
moving that forward.

2056
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:55,340
I think it's genius.

2057
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,260
Uh, it seems like a very obvious thing

2058
01:17:58,260 --> 01:17:59,780
to do, but doing it as a whole

2059
01:17:59,780 --> 01:18:01,660
nother thing for, you know, coming together and

2060
01:18:01,660 --> 01:18:02,540
crossing that chasm.

2061
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:03,380
I congratulate you.

2062
01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:04,500
I think it's a, it's a really, it's

2063
01:18:04,500 --> 01:18:05,140
a bold move.

2064
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:07,120
And I think it's, it's really good for,

2065
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:10,360
uh, podcasting 2.0 and whatever we call

2066
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:11,300
it for podcasting.

2067
01:18:11,340 --> 01:18:12,580
It's just good for podcasting.

2068
01:18:14,620 --> 01:18:15,720
Well, thanks Adam.

2069
01:18:15,820 --> 01:18:17,300
I really appreciate you saying that.

2070
01:18:17,540 --> 01:18:19,500
And you know, you guys and everyone else

2071
01:18:19,500 --> 01:18:22,620
involved in broadcasting 2.0, you know, we've

2072
01:18:22,620 --> 01:18:25,140
both learned so much from all of you.

2073
01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:29,240
And, um, yeah, this is definitely, you know,

2074
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:30,720
we're all in this together to try and

2075
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:31,660
push this thing forward.

2076
01:18:31,660 --> 01:18:33,460
And I guess I would just say to

2077
01:18:33,460 --> 01:18:36,180
everyone who is listening, like all the other

2078
01:18:36,180 --> 01:18:39,560
developers out there, like let's try and work

2079
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:40,340
on this together.

2080
01:18:40,580 --> 01:18:42,840
Like we're not 100% precious on what

2081
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,520
the solution is, but what I really believe

2082
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,700
is that we need a solution for open

2083
01:18:48,700 --> 01:18:51,040
payments and we need a solution for the

2084
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,460
metadata, because if we can crack those two

2085
01:18:54,460 --> 01:18:57,820
things, make it simple for podcasters and make

2086
01:18:57,820 --> 01:19:00,620
it interoperable, then it's just unstoppable.

2087
01:19:01,380 --> 01:19:01,900
I agree.

2088
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:04,880
We're just going to create something so amazing.

2089
01:19:05,180 --> 01:19:07,680
People can use whatever app they want, you

2090
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,140
know, we'll get overcast to integrate it one

2091
01:19:11,140 --> 01:19:11,400
day.

2092
01:19:13,060 --> 01:19:14,120
We'll be successful.

2093
01:19:14,500 --> 01:19:16,140
So, so yeah, let's, I know it's hard.

2094
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:21,120
Hell says I have not frozen over yet.

2095
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:25,660
But yeah, let's, let's, let's do this.

2096
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:27,600
Let's, let's figure out a solution to these

2097
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:27,900
things.

2098
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:28,680
Excellent.

2099
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:31,060
Um, thank you guys so much.

2100
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:31,960
You're welcome to hang around.

2101
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,180
We have a couple of, of people to

2102
01:19:34,180 --> 01:19:35,840
thank because this is value for value.

2103
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,700
The entire podcast index project is value for

2104
01:19:38,700 --> 01:19:39,120
value.

2105
01:19:39,900 --> 01:19:41,060
Uh, what are you drinking Dave?

2106
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:42,000
I just heard something go.

2107
01:19:42,140 --> 01:19:42,640
I heard you pop.

2108
01:19:42,820 --> 01:19:43,880
No, that was, that was me.

2109
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:48,100
De-stapling my paper, a paper de-staple.

2110
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:48,660
Oh, beautiful.

2111
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:50,600
A couple of boosts that came in while

2112
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:51,780
we were talking to the boys.

2113
01:19:51,900 --> 01:19:54,580
Uh, Hey citizen, 22, 22 row ducks go

2114
01:19:54,580 --> 01:19:57,840
podcasting seven, seven, seven, seven from Dreb Scott.

2115
01:19:58,140 --> 01:20:00,540
And Dreb says, I don't have time to

2116
01:20:00,540 --> 01:20:01,500
listen live today.

2117
01:20:01,500 --> 01:20:02,260
And why?

2118
01:20:02,780 --> 01:20:05,240
Because he's, uh, he's, he's working out weight

2119
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:05,540
loss.

2120
01:20:05,660 --> 01:20:06,240
He's running.

2121
01:20:06,380 --> 01:20:06,740
Yes.

2122
01:20:06,860 --> 01:20:08,800
10 pounds down in the last five weeks,

2123
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:09,700
40 more to go.

2124
01:20:09,860 --> 01:20:11,780
Thanks for your patience with delayed chapters.

2125
01:20:12,060 --> 01:20:13,300
Hashtag go podcasting.

2126
01:20:13,340 --> 01:20:14,100
We love you, Dreb.

2127
01:20:14,180 --> 01:20:14,780
It's all good.

2128
01:20:15,620 --> 01:20:16,860
Sam Sethi comes in again.

2129
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:17,900
He said, Oh, there he is.

2130
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:19,420
He heard my, he heard my complaint.

2131
01:20:19,740 --> 01:20:21,780
77, 77 for the angel boost.

2132
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,420
Uh, welcome to secure RSS, AKA L dot

2133
01:20:25,420 --> 01:20:27,600
four Oh two trans true fans uses this

2134
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,320
for music, audio books, and other prepaid for

2135
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:30,800
content.

2136
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,200
Uh, thank you, Oscar and Dovid us because

2137
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:34,900
everyone has ignored the solution.

2138
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:37,540
Everyone all caps, which we need in order

2139
01:20:37,540 --> 01:20:39,160
to replace Patrion, et cetera.

2140
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,240
True fans has had a monthly support option

2141
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:42,620
with both Fiat or sats.

2142
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:43,920
Good job, Oscar.

2143
01:20:44,860 --> 01:20:45,760
Salty crayon.

2144
01:20:46,020 --> 01:20:48,140
One, two, one, two, one, two, one, two.

2145
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,120
Dovid us has helped me out many times,

2146
01:20:50,180 --> 01:20:51,680
many emails, foam finger.

2147
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,880
Number one for Dovid Oh, podcasting Lyceum with

2148
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:56,860
seven, seven, seven.

2149
01:20:57,060 --> 01:20:58,180
I'm trying the small harp too.

2150
01:20:58,320 --> 01:20:59,020
Well, yes, we heard it.

2151
01:20:59,100 --> 01:20:59,460
It worked.

2152
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,740
Uh, salty crayon, 48 Oh five.

2153
01:21:02,940 --> 01:21:03,780
Howdy Dave and Adam.

2154
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:04,640
What?

2155
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:05,580
No value.

2156
01:21:05,820 --> 01:21:08,140
Here's $5 worth of sats because I forgot

2157
01:21:08,140 --> 01:21:09,800
my PayPal login in the pipe.

2158
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:10,940
It's thank you.

2159
01:21:12,660 --> 01:21:13,820
Uh, let's see.

2160
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:18,080
Um, we got one 45 from Seth S

2161
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:20,100
three T H yeah.

2162
01:21:20,440 --> 01:21:21,740
Uh, from true fans.

2163
01:21:21,820 --> 01:21:24,180
This is like the old blogger sphere where

2164
01:21:24,180 --> 01:21:26,420
you guys have convos amongst shows.

2165
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:28,300
I guess so.

2166
01:21:28,380 --> 01:21:30,640
Inter show convo inter show convo.

2167
01:21:30,740 --> 01:21:31,000
Yes.

2168
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,460
And then I have, uh, uh, something from

2169
01:21:33,460 --> 01:21:36,220
Lyceum, but that came in, uh, when did

2170
01:21:36,220 --> 01:21:36,820
that come in?

2171
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,340
I'll, I'll read those just in case you

2172
01:21:38,340 --> 01:21:39,020
didn't pick it up.

2173
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:40,380
A row of ducks.

2174
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,340
I'm resending my booster of two, two, two,

2175
01:21:43,420 --> 01:21:44,500
two, two Satoshi's.

2176
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:46,140
I see it coming in twice.

2177
01:21:46,140 --> 01:21:48,680
Actually for my post on podcast index dot

2178
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,440
social quote, my default setting for super comment,

2179
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:52,980
22, 22 Satoshi's.

2180
01:21:52,980 --> 01:21:54,420
It got deducted from my wallet.

2181
01:21:54,540 --> 01:21:55,940
I tried another time and now I get

2182
01:21:55,940 --> 01:21:57,160
a network error comment.

2183
01:21:57,300 --> 01:21:58,380
I am voting with my wallet.

2184
01:21:58,760 --> 01:21:59,940
You have the ducks in a row.

2185
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:01,320
I'm in it for the long run.

2186
01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:03,820
2030 and podcasting 2.0 will be so

2187
01:22:03,820 --> 01:22:06,700
-called mainstream go podcasting true fans.

2188
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:08,960
Upcoming iOS and Android app could be the

2189
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,780
positive simple deal breaker for the listener.

2190
01:22:12,460 --> 01:22:14,260
Anything is possible for sure.

2191
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:15,360
I hit the delimiter here.

2192
01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:17,420
So Dave, uh, head up, hit us up

2193
01:22:17,420 --> 01:22:17,960
with your list.

2194
01:22:18,260 --> 01:22:20,600
We got a, we got an anonymous, a

2195
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:21,400
one-off PayPal.

2196
01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:24,500
Uh, it's not anonymous, but I'm going to

2197
01:22:24,500 --> 01:22:25,960
treat it as such because I don't, I

2198
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:27,580
don't know if they want to be known

2199
01:22:27,580 --> 01:22:29,160
a hundred dollars.

2200
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:30,080
Nice.

2201
01:22:30,380 --> 01:22:31,340
And a note.

2202
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:32,000
Yeah.

2203
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,380
The note is thanks for all that you

2204
01:22:34,380 --> 01:22:35,200
do for devs.

2205
01:22:35,340 --> 01:22:37,320
We're working on a new podcast app.

2206
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:40,540
Oh, well that must be those guys who

2207
01:22:40,540 --> 01:22:41,780
are peeling off from Apple.

2208
01:22:41,980 --> 01:22:42,180
Uh-huh.

2209
01:22:42,260 --> 01:22:42,800
I got it.

2210
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:43,200
Okay.

2211
01:22:43,980 --> 01:22:45,420
Wait, peeling off from Apple.

2212
01:22:45,540 --> 01:22:45,860
What is it?

2213
01:22:45,860 --> 01:22:46,760
You have secret news?

2214
01:22:46,860 --> 01:22:48,480
No, I'm just making it up.

2215
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:50,080
You're the one with the seat with the

2216
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:50,880
anonymous donor.

2217
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:52,360
I'm just making stuff up, man.

2218
01:22:53,060 --> 01:22:53,260
Yeah.

2219
01:22:53,940 --> 01:22:55,140
Um, thank you for that.

2220
01:22:55,180 --> 01:22:55,480
A hundred bucks.

2221
01:22:55,580 --> 01:22:56,000
Appreciate that.

2222
01:22:56,020 --> 01:22:56,880
We've got a, some boost.

2223
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:58,440
We got sea loss on Linux, uh, two,

2224
01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:01,720
three, four, five through fountain get hub is

2225
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:02,160
a mess.

2226
01:23:02,300 --> 01:23:04,900
Yes, but almost because, but almost because it

2227
01:23:04,900 --> 01:23:06,900
had to be, it's a complex tool for

2228
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:09,420
developers, not an end consumer product thing.

2229
01:23:09,420 --> 01:23:10,040
It's true.

2230
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:10,620
Yes.

2231
01:23:11,500 --> 01:23:13,360
When the vet doing developers make things for

2232
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:15,240
other developers, it's always a mess.

2233
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:18,700
Yeah, that's true.

2234
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:19,980
I E telnet.

2235
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:21,760
Hey, telnet rocks, baby.

2236
01:23:22,700 --> 01:23:25,380
Uh, please tell me that your telnet is

2237
01:23:25,380 --> 01:23:27,880
not bound to all IP addresses on your

2238
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:28,180
box.

2239
01:23:28,180 --> 01:23:31,020
No, it's a one, two, seven, Oh, Oh,

2240
01:23:31,020 --> 01:23:31,500
Oh, one.

2241
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:32,900
Oh, yes.

2242
01:23:33,260 --> 01:23:33,480
Nice.

2243
01:23:33,900 --> 01:23:35,240
Uh, sea loss on Linux.

2244
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:37,260
Again, 5,000 sets through fountain says we

2245
01:23:37,260 --> 01:23:39,600
only needed someone to call all this a

2246
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:41,940
failure to again, realize what we've been doing

2247
01:23:41,940 --> 01:23:43,460
and that is actually cool.

2248
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:44,640
Nice.

2249
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:47,200
Um, yep.

2250
01:23:47,340 --> 01:23:50,000
Set a C Seth S three T H

2251
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:50,820
from true fans.

2252
01:23:50,980 --> 01:23:51,840
29, 25.

2253
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,200
Love the intros from Adam.

2254
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:54,020
So much fun.

2255
01:23:55,380 --> 01:23:55,820
Okay.

2256
01:23:55,820 --> 01:23:56,400
Thank you.

2257
01:23:56,480 --> 01:23:57,600
I work real hard on them.

2258
01:23:57,780 --> 01:23:59,060
Three minutes before air time.

2259
01:24:01,060 --> 01:24:01,920
Uh, let's see.

2260
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:03,620
I think you've got these.

2261
01:24:03,820 --> 01:24:04,460
Yes, you did.

2262
01:24:04,540 --> 01:24:07,200
Those are a Lyceum and uh, the delimiter

2263
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,840
comments for a blogger 14 for 30.

2264
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:11,860
Uh, thank you.

2265
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:12,080
Yeah.

2266
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:14,640
CSB appreciate that amount brother found through fountain.

2267
01:24:14,740 --> 01:24:17,280
He says, how do you Dave and Adam,

2268
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,160
please tell your audience to subscribe to keeper

2269
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:25,260
podcast of Adam, www.curryandthekeeper.com.

2270
01:24:25,580 --> 01:24:28,200
It's in dire need of Bitcoin donations.

2271
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:30,360
It is in here in pod cut in

2272
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,440
here in podcasting 2.0 community.

2273
01:24:32,780 --> 01:24:34,460
Several folks have Bitcoin.

2274
01:24:34,660 --> 01:24:36,180
So what are they waiting for?

2275
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:36,560
Really?

2276
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,680
Podcast name, colon Curry and the keeper.

2277
01:24:40,060 --> 01:24:42,920
They alcoholize and socialize.

2278
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:44,260
Donate there now.

2279
01:24:44,260 --> 01:24:45,240
Yo, CSB.

2280
01:24:45,420 --> 01:24:46,020
Thank you.

2281
01:24:46,100 --> 01:24:46,540
CSB.

2282
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:48,840
He's the most interesting booster.

2283
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:50,680
I have every single show.

2284
01:24:50,780 --> 01:24:52,740
He's promoting someone else's show.

2285
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:55,020
It's just an everybody's show.

2286
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:55,620
I love that.

2287
01:24:55,700 --> 01:24:57,040
It's really, it's very, very cool.

2288
01:24:57,540 --> 01:24:58,980
You know, he has a, he's a giver.

2289
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:00,640
He's he's a giver.

2290
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:01,760
You're so right.

2291
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,880
Comic strip bloggers, a giver monthly.

2292
01:25:05,020 --> 01:25:07,540
I like the term alcoholized alcohol.

2293
01:25:07,700 --> 01:25:07,960
Yes.

2294
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:08,960
He's against it.

2295
01:25:08,980 --> 01:25:10,200
He doesn't think Tina should drink.

2296
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:11,360
She barely drinks anymore.

2297
01:25:11,460 --> 01:25:12,060
I'm the drinker.

2298
01:25:12,060 --> 01:25:13,420
I'm drinking twice as much.

2299
01:25:13,980 --> 01:25:16,460
Uh, Terry Keller, $5 a month.

2300
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:18,780
Silicon florist, $10.

2301
01:25:18,940 --> 01:25:20,700
Chris Cowen, $5.

2302
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:24,200
Uh, Paul Saltzman, $22.22. Thank you, Paul.

2303
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:25,280
Derek J.

2304
01:25:25,440 --> 01:25:27,580
Viscar, the best name in podcasting, $21.

2305
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,080
Damon Kastrijak, $15.

2306
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:32,040
Jeremy Gerds, $5.

2307
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:32,720
Thank you, Jeremy.

2308
01:25:33,340 --> 01:25:34,840
Uh, new media productions.

2309
01:25:35,100 --> 01:25:35,540
That's Todd.

2310
01:25:35,820 --> 01:25:36,080
Yes.

2311
01:25:36,140 --> 01:25:36,380
$30.

2312
01:25:36,860 --> 01:25:37,380
Thank you, Todd.

2313
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:40,080
Um, Michael Hall, $5 and 50 cents.

2314
01:25:40,980 --> 01:25:42,200
Uh, Gene Liverman.

2315
01:25:42,300 --> 01:25:45,340
Hey, Gene, $5 and Timothy voice, $10.

2316
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:48,000
We appreciate all that you do to keep

2317
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:48,720
the show running.

2318
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:50,740
And when I say the show, it's really

2319
01:25:50,740 --> 01:25:54,780
podcastingnext.org and a lot of, a lot

2320
01:25:54,780 --> 01:25:56,000
of stuff depends on it.

2321
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,760
So, uh, it doesn't cost a lot, but

2322
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,300
every single penny is appreciated.

2323
01:25:59,380 --> 01:26:00,100
Thank you so much.

2324
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,040
Go to podcastingnext.org down at the bottom

2325
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:03,580
of that page is a red donate button.

2326
01:26:03,580 --> 01:26:05,640
If you want to hit us up with,

2327
01:26:05,700 --> 01:26:07,480
uh, with some PayPal and in most of

2328
01:26:07,480 --> 01:26:09,680
the podcast apps, uh, you know, if you,

2329
01:26:09,780 --> 01:26:11,560
uh, if you boosted that you're helping the

2330
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,920
podcast index as well with the percent, uh,

2331
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:15,480
or you can always just send us your

2332
01:26:15,480 --> 01:26:17,200
on-chain Bitcoin, just send us a couple

2333
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:18,380
of Bitcoin and be happy with that.

2334
01:26:18,900 --> 01:26:20,220
Just a couple of Bitcoin.

2335
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:20,660
That's all.

2336
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:22,440
I want to leave us today with the

2337
01:26:22,440 --> 01:26:24,460
answer to an age old question.

2338
01:26:25,220 --> 01:26:28,780
The question, what is a podcast?

2339
01:26:30,460 --> 01:26:30,860
Okay.

2340
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,640
Do you, I mean, this has been discussed

2341
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,840
in the podcast industrial complex for, I mean,

2342
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:39,560
over what more than a year now, is

2343
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:40,360
it video?

2344
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:41,960
Is it audio?

2345
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:44,700
Does it have to have an RSS feed?

2346
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:47,640
What is your definition of a podcast?

2347
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:48,160
Dave Jones?

2348
01:26:50,670 --> 01:26:54,230
Uh, my definition of a podcast is any,

2349
01:26:54,490 --> 01:26:56,670
my personal definition.

2350
01:26:57,030 --> 01:26:59,030
It's your personal definition that you will not

2351
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:59,950
be held to account.

2352
01:26:59,950 --> 01:27:06,170
If my podcast app, and I'm talking about,

2353
01:27:06,450 --> 01:27:07,530
I'm not talking about YouTube.

2354
01:27:07,750 --> 01:27:09,310
I'm not talking about the proprietary apps I'm

2355
01:27:09,310 --> 01:27:09,810
talking about.

2356
01:27:09,870 --> 01:27:13,250
If my podcast app that reads RSS feeds,

2357
01:27:13,310 --> 01:27:15,650
if it can show it to me and

2358
01:27:15,650 --> 01:27:16,990
let me play it, it's a podcast.

2359
01:27:17,670 --> 01:27:21,270
I think that's a very good definition, but

2360
01:27:21,270 --> 01:27:23,370
we have an answer from someone who knows

2361
01:27:23,370 --> 01:27:26,670
all the inimitable Bill O'Reilly.

2362
01:27:29,130 --> 01:27:29,610
Okay.

2363
01:27:30,310 --> 01:27:32,170
If I had to build a short list,

2364
01:27:32,570 --> 01:27:34,410
if I had to build a long list

2365
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:37,070
of people that I would, that I would

2366
01:27:37,070 --> 01:27:39,330
get my definition of what a podcast is

2367
01:27:39,330 --> 01:27:41,970
from Bill O'Reilly would not be on

2368
01:27:41,970 --> 01:27:42,310
this.

2369
01:27:42,590 --> 01:27:43,690
Bill O'Reilly, he used to be on

2370
01:27:43,690 --> 01:27:47,650
Fox news, um, was, uh, dismissed in some

2371
01:27:47,650 --> 01:27:51,570
cloud of disgrace over sexual harassment.

2372
01:27:52,530 --> 01:27:54,810
And yeah, that guy.

2373
01:27:54,970 --> 01:27:57,830
And then, um, for all I know, started

2374
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:59,670
a podcast, but he disagrees.

2375
01:28:00,150 --> 01:28:02,050
It is not what he does is not

2376
01:28:02,050 --> 01:28:02,850
a podcast.

2377
01:28:02,950 --> 01:28:03,370
No, no.

2378
01:28:03,850 --> 01:28:05,630
He will give us the definition of a

2379
01:28:05,630 --> 01:28:06,190
podcast.

2380
01:28:07,150 --> 01:28:08,710
I drives me crazy.

2381
01:28:09,310 --> 01:28:10,830
People go, Oh, I watch your pod.

2382
01:28:10,890 --> 01:28:11,930
Not a podcast.

2383
01:28:12,510 --> 01:28:15,230
Look, if you guy has tattoos and dirty

2384
01:28:15,230 --> 01:28:16,550
sneakers, it's a podcast.

2385
01:28:17,070 --> 01:28:20,290
He's dressed as dapper as I dress.

2386
01:28:20,810 --> 01:28:21,730
It's a broadcast.

2387
01:28:22,130 --> 01:28:23,030
It's a broadcast.

2388
01:28:23,370 --> 01:28:25,190
Oh, finally we have an answer from the,

2389
01:28:25,310 --> 01:28:27,870
from the, these ever so smart Bill O

2390
01:28:27,870 --> 01:28:28,110
'Reilly.

2391
01:28:28,210 --> 01:28:28,730
There you go.

2392
01:28:29,130 --> 01:28:30,470
I agree with Bill.

2393
01:28:30,670 --> 01:28:32,210
What he does is not a podcast.

2394
01:28:32,430 --> 01:28:33,190
It's right.

2395
01:28:33,790 --> 01:28:35,970
Uh, Dovey Doss, Oscar, thank you both so

2396
01:28:35,970 --> 01:28:36,810
much for being here.

2397
01:28:36,910 --> 01:28:38,310
We really appreciate you guys.

2398
01:28:38,430 --> 01:28:38,990
Keep it going.

2399
01:28:39,030 --> 01:28:40,450
And we'll be here when you have something

2400
01:28:40,450 --> 01:28:41,910
else to, uh, to talk about.

2401
01:28:41,950 --> 01:28:43,170
And of course that goes for all the

2402
01:28:43,170 --> 01:28:43,770
app developers.

2403
01:28:43,990 --> 01:28:45,190
If you've got something that you want to

2404
01:28:45,190 --> 01:28:46,670
talk about, we're here for you.

2405
01:28:46,830 --> 01:28:48,150
So thank you again, guys.

2406
01:28:49,270 --> 01:28:50,250
Thank you so much.

2407
01:28:50,650 --> 01:28:50,850
Okay.

2408
01:28:50,890 --> 01:28:51,390
Thanks guys.

2409
01:28:51,550 --> 01:28:52,370
Good to be back on.

2410
01:28:53,210 --> 01:28:55,010
And thank you very much.

2411
01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:58,010
Uh, boardroom, uh, no show next week, but

2412
01:28:58,010 --> 01:28:59,730
that means it'll be double as tasty the

2413
01:28:59,730 --> 01:29:00,250
week after.

2414
01:29:00,670 --> 01:29:19,790
Join us then for podcasting 2.0. You

2415
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have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit

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01:29:24,330 --> 01:29:27,630
podcast index.org for more information.

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You should be blocking this stuff.