1
00:00:00,359 --> 00:00:05,579
Unknown: podcasting 2.0 for
January 22 2021, Episode 21

2
00:00:05,579 --> 00:00:14,099
Hooray for Hollywood make up the
titles before we start the show

3
00:00:14,099 --> 00:00:14,459
it's

4
00:00:16,350 --> 00:00:20,100
Friday afternoon time once again
for a board meeting of

5
00:00:20,130 --> 00:00:25,260
podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org
what is going on with the future

6
00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:30,360
of podcasting where we ask your
the players you know every

7
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,590
single company should do one of
these. Forget quarterly reports

8
00:00:34,590 --> 00:00:37,800
just do a podcast. I'm Adam
Curry in Austin, Texas now the

9
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,250
man who can memorize more
transactions than the mempool

10
00:00:41,490 --> 00:00:44,040
ladies and gentlemen Dave Jones.

11
00:00:45,030 --> 00:00:46,860
That's to Bitcoin nerdy man

12
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,890
now I'm going full on man,
maximalist your

13
00:00:49,890 --> 00:00:51,180
Bitcoin maximalist?

14
00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,629
Yes, I am. And I dove into the
mempool last night trying to

15
00:00:54,629 --> 00:00:57,149
understand what was going on,
like, holy crap.

16
00:00:57,450 --> 00:01:01,170
Yeah, I was wondering, are you
excited about, you know, venger

17
00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:06,060
bitcoins twice. That's an ocean
now.

18
00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:10,260
It's in. Interestingly, that's
exactly what I was doing

19
00:01:10,260 --> 00:01:14,670
yesterday, not double spending,
but trying to replace the long

20
00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:18,570
story. But that double spin
story is kind of fun.

21
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:22,890
It's not Oh, it's sketchy. Yeah,
that's the I dove into it last

22
00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:25,290
night to figure it out. And it
was like, Oh, well, that makes

23
00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:29,490
sense. It was just a it's just a
normal, normal bailout to a new

24
00:01:29,490 --> 00:01:30,000
chain.

25
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,290
I mean, it's kind of a feature
of the whole system. So if you

26
00:01:34,290 --> 00:01:37,500
want to call that a double
spend? Yeah. Yeah.

27
00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:41,400
No, no, it was it was an added I
guess it was just just part of

28
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,470
the normal Fudd that's going on
right now.

29
00:01:43,860 --> 00:01:46,890
Oh, you mean the fraud like
Janet Yellen saying that?

30
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,700
cryptocurrency is only used for
illicit purposes like

31
00:01:50,790 --> 00:01:52,020
podcasting.

32
00:01:53,220 --> 00:01:56,490
Janet, Janet, have you? Have you
checked the US dollar lately?

33
00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:00,210
Last time I checked, it was used
for a lot of illicit things.

34
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,260
Yeah, I think I can pull any
random dollar out of my pocket.

35
00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:08,160
And you probably have traces of
something on it. My traces but

36
00:02:08,190 --> 00:02:12,750
in general. Whoo. All right. How
you doing, man? Pretty good.

37
00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:18,900
It's a pretty intense week of at
the day job, but I'm hanging in

38
00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:22,920
there to Friday. I'm just glad
so glad that it's Friday. Yeah,

39
00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,440
no, I hear you that it's my
favorite. It's really is my

40
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,380
favorite day of the week. I
chill out a little bit in the

41
00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:32,130
morning resting from a hard
day's work on Thursday, which

42
00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:36,600
is, in fact true. Yeah. And then
it's like, oh, yeah, I get to

43
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,820
talk about what we've been
doing. What have we been doing?

44
00:02:38,850 --> 00:02:40,590
I don't know. I have to ask Dave
on the show.

45
00:02:42,540 --> 00:02:44,910
I'll tell I'll tell you what
we're always supposed to be you

46
00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:48,720
know, have been doing. Okay. I
know how to get I get this

47
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,770
though. Yeah, we're talking
about the New York Times

48
00:02:52,770 --> 00:02:58,170
Caliphate show last week. Yeah.
So it dawned on me, I was

49
00:02:58,170 --> 00:03:03,090
thinking I kept bothering me
that that that show has not been

50
00:03:03,090 --> 00:03:06,090
d platformed. Yet, when it's
totally fake. I mean, everything

51
00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:07,170
about it is a lie.

52
00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:10,170
Why would it have to be de
platformed?

53
00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:12,900
Well, it's what I'm saying. It's
just

54
00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:15,690
it's just a lie. I don't we have
lots of lies in the database.

55
00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:20,310
That's true. But the canceled
culture perspective. You mean?

56
00:03:20,430 --> 00:03:23,340
Yeah. Yeah, it hasn't been
canceled yet. Complete ly.

57
00:03:23,820 --> 00:03:26,730
You can't cancel because it's
the New York Times and it's the

58
00:03:26,730 --> 00:03:28,920
daily production team.

59
00:03:29,190 --> 00:03:33,420
I've got a simple app figured
out the ad hit me when I looked

60
00:03:33,420 --> 00:03:36,510
at the list the list of
episodes. There's like 12

61
00:03:36,510 --> 00:03:41,580
episodes. Yeah. And then there's
one bonus bonus episode that

62
00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:44,490
they posted after they
discovered that it was fraud.

63
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,210
And it was just like a little
bit of a Mia culpa. like a like

64
00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:51,600
a short Mia culpa episode. So
that that's like the key to not

65
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:51,720
get

66
00:03:51,750 --> 00:03:54,000
Oh, you do a little We're sorry.

67
00:03:54,450 --> 00:03:57,600
Yeah, usually about once every
dozen episodes, you just say By

68
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,630
the way, this is all not true.
And then you just go right back

69
00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:02,910
to what you're doing. It's just
like, it's a little secret

70
00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:03,420
sauce.

71
00:04:03,630 --> 00:04:06,990
You see, I see that completely
differently. I've looked at this

72
00:04:06,990 --> 00:04:11,280
and think that's a great format
come up with completely made up

73
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,940
stories. That sound absolutely
real. That's perfect. I mean,

74
00:04:14,970 --> 00:04:17,100
they do it on television every
day

75
00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:21,390
in our art bill made a career
out of it for 30 years in radio.

76
00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:25,140
Yeah, so that that sounds like
if I had time I'd probably put

77
00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,890
something fun together and I'm I
you know, I like doing live

78
00:04:28,890 --> 00:04:34,560
podcasts but I am not averse to
you know, a huge sound design

79
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,880
project. That'd be fun. HG Wells
war the world and that's the

80
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,820
first thing that hit me is oh my
gosh, that's exactly what this

81
00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:47,280
is. Only and the beauty of of
War of the Worlds was they kept

82
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,220
broadcasting that it was not
real and people didn't believe

83
00:04:50,220 --> 00:04:54,090
it's real. Or they didn't hear
it or you know, whatever.

84
00:04:54,090 --> 00:04:55,890
selective hearing selective
memory.

85
00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:58,800
Wow, that's a lot like that's a
lot like the media now.

86
00:04:59,070 --> 00:05:03,870
Yes. just changed at all. Other
than you know, podcasting having

87
00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:07,830
a crosshairs on his back. Thanks
to which I could not be more

88
00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:08,700
delighted about.

89
00:05:09,330 --> 00:05:12,990
Yeah, that that's just like the
that's what I keep insert. You

90
00:05:12,990 --> 00:05:15,990
can insert that everywhere you
can just say when when their

91
00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:19,530
headline headline reads, you
know, loophole allows

92
00:05:19,530 --> 00:05:24,720
misinformation, parentheses like
Caliphate and parentheses to

93
00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:25,710
continue.

94
00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:31,650
Yeah put that anywhere. Yeah. No
food for thought. Yeah. So what

95
00:05:31,650 --> 00:05:34,290
have we been working on this
week over I mean, there's been a

96
00:05:34,290 --> 00:05:36,810
lot of things flowing back and
forth and some of those I'm

97
00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:40,110
going to bring up with our guest
today we have two prominent

98
00:05:40,110 --> 00:05:44,400
figures from the podcasting. I'm
gonna say the podcasting space

99
00:05:44,550 --> 00:05:47,100
that has got to be in the has no
need no one of our

100
00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:50,730
one of our guests like that like
that word. So really, yeah. So

101
00:05:50,730 --> 00:05:56,520
I'm just adapting I'm code
signaling. Base man the space.

102
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,890
Let me see, of course, there's
some IP Fs talk. We'll talk

103
00:06:01,890 --> 00:06:06,660
about that later. I also have
some things about some of the

104
00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:11,640
first phase of the namespace.
What else what else has been

105
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,920
going on? The couple I thought
there was one or two discussions

106
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,140
on podcast index social.

107
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,960
Yes, some people are starting to
look into and play with the

108
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,500
Ellen pay. Yes, yeah, yes. Yeah.

109
00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:27,120
And I saw, I'm so happy this
morning, I woke up. And the

110
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,810
first thing I check, because I
want to be happy first thing in

111
00:06:30,810 --> 00:06:35,220
the morning, is I check podcast
index on social. And there's

112
00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:40,020
Martin You know, I've been on a
pod friend kick. It's just it's,

113
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,610
it's really functional for me,
especially on graphene OS. And

114
00:06:44,850 --> 00:06:47,700
now he's like, Oh, yeah, I'm
gonna do like, oh, man, I can't

115
00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:50,520
wait. Let me break it. Please.
Give me code. Let me try and

116
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,670
break it for you, Martin. I love
that. It's coming. I'm getting

117
00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:58,380
old and I got pod station up and
working. Which, which works with

118
00:06:58,380 --> 00:06:59,550
the with the node.

119
00:06:59,969 --> 00:07:02,279
I couldn't figure out the
macaroon thing. Head. How did

120
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,969
you get your SS? It has to be
hex encoded? Yeah, downloaded my

121
00:07:05,969 --> 00:07:09,599
macaroon from voltage? Yeah,
it's in just a binary format.

122
00:07:09,599 --> 00:07:12,239
And, like, how did you get yours
out of there?

123
00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:17,940
You've got if you go to I think
it's manual connect on voltage

124
00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:21,960
and your voltage node. It has a
hex, it has a hex value.

125
00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:27,030
Oh, for the LLC for LLC a lot.
Yeah. All right, I'll do that.

126
00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:28,470
And once you have tried to play
with it,

127
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,100
it was phenomenal. And then this
is where I got into meaningful

128
00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:37,410
stuff. So I set up I've like all
set up a little test wallet just

129
00:07:37,410 --> 00:07:40,890
for you know, for my purposes
over at voltage, and I chose a

130
00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:44,550
light node, Oh, my God. And
Graeme, I've been working on

131
00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:48,330
this for 48 hours, this thing
came up all spotty. And of

132
00:07:48,330 --> 00:07:51,120
course, you know, by already
transferred not much, but like

133
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,920
1520 bucks to it from from my
own wallet. But because it never

134
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,280
came up properly, it had to shut
down and then it came back up

135
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,700
again. And then it had to
synchronize and it was confused.

136
00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:06,420
And then here's the here's the
funny part. Since I've done

137
00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:10,080
those transfers, and try to open
a channel at a different date a

138
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,380
different time, the fee
structure was really, really low

139
00:08:13,380 --> 00:08:16,860
at that particular moment. So
when this node came back up, and

140
00:08:16,860 --> 00:08:20,790
the verification process
started, you know, my payments,

141
00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:24,780
were still sitting there at a
very low fee, so they weren't

142
00:08:24,780 --> 00:08:27,570
being picked up. And they
weren't being transferred. And

143
00:08:27,570 --> 00:08:31,230
I've been waiting, like 17 hours
for a channel to open. It's

144
00:08:31,230 --> 00:08:34,920
trying to go to two sets per v
byte or something. It's I'm

145
00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,450
learning this stuff like wow,

146
00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:40,230
it's this is so genius the way
it was put together. So you

147
00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:43,860
You're the transaction that you
initially funded the node with

148
00:08:43,860 --> 00:08:47,610
your, your, your chain
transaction. Yeah, exactly. And,

149
00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:51,570
and this is where I learned the
RBF. So you can replace your

150
00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:55,650
bid, because it's just sitting
in your own little mempool

151
00:08:55,650 --> 00:08:56,100
space.

152
00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:58,380
Oh, I think it resting bitchface
I thought this week,

153
00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:01,350
that's what it should be called.
Because that's the look I have

154
00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:02,820
while trying to figure this out.

155
00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:04,200
Okay, that's funny. I

156
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,240
think I didn't make that
connection myself.

157
00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:09,870
That's replaced replaced by fee.
Yeah, at least by fee or

158
00:09:09,870 --> 00:09:10,560
something like that. Yeah.

159
00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,470
So and then you just you you do
the exact same amount of

160
00:09:13,470 --> 00:09:17,520
satoshis. And then the higher
fee and it repentant. And it

161
00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:21,990
replaces it essentially.
Although, and that's what that

162
00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:26,430
story was about the fudge story
that it now you had basically

163
00:09:26,430 --> 00:09:30,810
two payments waiting to go and
it picked up the one with a

164
00:09:30,810 --> 00:09:34,770
lower fee. And I don't know this
story was convoluted, but I've

165
00:09:34,770 --> 00:09:39,120
heard I was listening to I think
Tales from the Crypt and then

166
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,790
Marty Marty held my hand. I
understood it after that.

167
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,250
Anyway, okay, so that's it now
that's hot Bitcoin. Lightning ln

168
00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:51,330
ditto. Just be lm D and L n d
love. Ellen.

169
00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:51,960
Ellen, do

170
00:09:51,959 --> 00:09:54,959
you hear on podcasting? 2.0
Yeah.

171
00:09:56,910 --> 00:10:00,660
Yeah, I think what did you get
it ever sorted Did you get that

172
00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:01,110
finished?

173
00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:05,490
The light node? Well, so then I
was trying to bump the channel

174
00:10:05,490 --> 00:10:08,340
up. And I wasn't having a lot of
success because I have to do

175
00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:12,450
that with lm ci from my own
node. And I was able to connect,

176
00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:15,120
but I'm, you know, it's all JSON
that's being returned. So my

177
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:15,750
eyes are going.

178
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,160
Yeah.

179
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,810
So now I haven't figured out but
you know, it's been just working

180
00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:24,510
with Graham. And it's been fun
because I'm learning about how

181
00:10:24,510 --> 00:10:27,780
this stuff works. And I'm
learning Moreover, because I'll

182
00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:32,340
be setting up a node for Max
Keiser, and Stacy Herbert, who

183
00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:37,470
were all jacked. And you know,
once, once we get our first

184
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,950
scalable app integration, they
want to they want to start

185
00:10:40,950 --> 00:10:45,090
trying it. And there's a lot of
Bitcoin people who will jump on

186
00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:48,210
that boat, man, I'll tell you,
orange pill, orange pill

187
00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:49,290
podcast. Yeah. Okay. I've

188
00:10:49,290 --> 00:10:51,030
never heard it. But I know, I
know, it exists.

189
00:10:51,060 --> 00:10:53,640
Well, they have to have one
during the week where they're

190
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,020
just kind of jamming together.
And, you know, kind of, it's

191
00:10:58,020 --> 00:11:02,850
kind of like a drunk party. If
you know, Maximus days is pretty

192
00:11:02,850 --> 00:11:06,480
funny. But then the other one,
which I think is on Sundays,

193
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,710
they have guests on, and it's
it's highly philosophy, you

194
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:14,010
know, philosophy, it's a high
philosophy type conversation,

195
00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:18,630
the philosophical. Yes, thank
you. Thank you couldn't get it

196
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:24,810
out. So that's how highly
philosophical I am. But it's

197
00:11:24,810 --> 00:11:27,630
good. Yes, interesting people
and they talk about really the

198
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,990
whole concept of Bitcoin and the
freedom it provides versus the

199
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:36,750
existing system. It's
fascinating that this movement

200
00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:40,080
is so interesting to me, I'm,
I'm happy to be swept up and

201
00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:46,320
delirious as I am. And I did a I
did a Bitcoin presentation at

202
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:46,650
work.

203
00:11:47,310 --> 00:11:50,940
And Eric said he, Eric, the
shell said he saw did you send

204
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:53,250
me that video video on slides?
If you do on that?

205
00:11:53,460 --> 00:11:55,530
No, I don't think I sent it to
you. It's good. It had some

206
00:11:55,530 --> 00:11:58,500
proprietary stuff from our
company in it. But I'll but I'll

207
00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:03,000
send it to you privately. Yeah.
Yeah. But the so we were talking

208
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,580
about it. And I was just
explaining how everything

209
00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:09,720
worked. And part of what came up
in the in the presentation was

210
00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:13,770
the all the institutional
investors that are getting in

211
00:12:13,770 --> 00:12:17,700
now like, mass mutual bollock.
100 million in real estate like

212
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:19,800
mutual I didn't even know that
part.

213
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,600
Yeah, they bought they bought
100 million in Bitcoin. And

214
00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:27,300
there's there's a lot of
institutional investment now

215
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,530
going into it. So it's gonna be
really hard to shut it

216
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,830
down that bad. Yeah, the genies
out of the bottle. bitcoins just

217
00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:37,710
suck when you suck in the
institutional. It gets really

218
00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:44,280
interesting. And then we get
we'll get a What does that? What

219
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:51,480
is that kind of tradable fund
and ETF ETF? That's what I'm

220
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,300
thinking of? Yeah. Yeah, with
ETFs. That's what everyone I

221
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,270
think has been waiting for. I
don't know much about that. I

222
00:12:57,270 --> 00:12:59,700
don't either. But that's that's
all I know, is all I know is we

223
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:04,170
can send little little bits of
money and value from one person

224
00:13:04,170 --> 00:13:10,170
to the other in a seamless
fashion in a timed fashion. So

225
00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:14,880
yeah, so there was that? Yeah.
What else was there?

226
00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:18,810
Well, there's been I mean, we've
talked a lot. We talked some

227
00:13:18,810 --> 00:13:23,340
about, yeah, we talked about
some namespace stuff. And just

228
00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:27,210
and there was another discussion
going on about the sort of

229
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,330
trying to come up with a
universal link structure.

230
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,760
Yeah. Explain that. Thanks.
Thank you for bringing that up.

231
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:36,870
I saw that. I tried to focus on
it my eyes glazed over what

232
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:40,230
exactly? Is it? And what is the
benefit, which I think someone

233
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:41,940
asked, you know, why are we
doing this?

234
00:13:42,330 --> 00:13:45,180
Well, there's two, you could
look at it two ways, you could

235
00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:48,330
say there's a sort of a
universal link that would just

236
00:13:48,330 --> 00:13:52,380
say somehow to trigger whatever
your default podcast player is

237
00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:58,860
on your, on your device. But
then the other type of thing,

238
00:13:58,890 --> 00:14:04,770
then what was really the focus
was how to have a universal link

239
00:14:04,770 --> 00:14:07,920
structure for how to address a
particular episode and

240
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,270
timestamp. So that you can say
whether or not it's pod, pod

241
00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:13,800
friend pod station,

242
00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:16,800
you can just do question mark
equals and then number of

243
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,420
seconds. Ah, so I like the idea
of the universal link structure

244
00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:26,250
for so that it'll open up your
your app will know what to do

245
00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:26,640
with it.

246
00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:32,250
Right? And that that would
require OS support. Which I'm

247
00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:35,850
not aware of any OSS that
support it, maybe somebody else

248
00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:39,390
knows but I don't that don't
think that exists yet. He said

249
00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:42,720
something like, you know,
podcast, colon slash slash,

250
00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:46,590
whatever the you know, hyper
catcher, slash,

251
00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:49,800
blah, blah, right, right. So
something like that. What does

252
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,730
that mean that every host has to
now name their fod like that

253
00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:55,470
would be a hosting company
thing.

254
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,220
Now that would just be a link it
would just be a link recognition

255
00:14:59,220 --> 00:15:03,870
inside that So there's no like a
protocol scheme missing

256
00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:05,010
registering a new protocol.

257
00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:06,750
I see I see

258
00:15:07,050 --> 00:15:08,790
it, there's that there's that
side of it, which is

259
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:10,980
interesting. And then the, you
know, just the other side of

260
00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:14,790
trying to figure out how to
interrupt between between apps.

261
00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:19,860
So I could pod vert, you know,
if pod verse has their shareable

262
00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:23,430
link structure, and then it's
like, each one has their own

263
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,600
scheme, if you could just sort
of universalize that. It may

264
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,090
make interrupt easier between
apps.

265
00:15:31,650 --> 00:15:33,720
You need buy in from the two
platforms?

266
00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:37,500
Yeah, on both areas you need buy
in, right? Yeah. And it's just

267
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:40,530
kind of just one of those sort
of tangential things not really,

268
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:45,480
index or namespace related, but
just more so like, Hey, this is

269
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,390
a prop. This is a problem that's
kind of universal to everybody.

270
00:15:48,390 --> 00:15:50,520
And can we bake a solution for
it?

271
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:57,450
So how do you propose that to
the OS? So I presume it's Apple,

272
00:15:57,450 --> 00:16:02,160
Google and Windows Microsoft?

273
00:16:02,430 --> 00:16:04,140
Yeah, that would be your three.
Yeah.

274
00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:05,640
How'd you actually pose that?

275
00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:10,620
I think you just somehow, you
know, expressed the need.

276
00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:14,850
Oh, you mean like it like a
namespace for podcasting? Okay,

277
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:17,910
sounds sounds like that. Just
okay. We have a need for this

278
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,260
not gonna do shit for?

279
00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:24,420
Well, moving on. Next up? I
don't know, I had no idea. I

280
00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:29,220
mean, I have no clue. Well, I
mean, on ipfs, supported to cut

281
00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:33,840
how many years to get to get an
ipfs protocol handler to be

282
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,320
recognized by chrome or chrome.
It's not even in there. It's not

283
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,650
even it doesn't function yet.
But it's in chromium. And that

284
00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:42,900
brave Finally, sort of activated
it.

285
00:16:44,070 --> 00:16:46,740
on there? Well, I think there's
a number of reasons for this.

286
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:55,260
Certainly, why certain companies
who, who benefit from selling

287
00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:58,830
services are apprehensive about
that. And maybe this is a good

288
00:16:58,830 --> 00:17:01,140
time to bring in our guests. It
won't be the first question,

289
00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:04,980
I'll pop at them. But it
certainly should come up. These

290
00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:08,370
are two guys who have been a
part of podcasting for a very

291
00:17:08,370 --> 00:17:13,530
long time since the beginning. I
remember him. I remember, have

292
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,960
supported podcast index and
podcasting. 2.0 nice guys all

293
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,250
round and have just, yeah, just
been certainly a part of my life

294
00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:26,280
tendentially throughout the
podcasting, and in the

295
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:32,670
podcasting space, for the past
16 years. Please welcome from

296
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:37,620
blueberry podcasting. its
founder, Todd Cochran, and

297
00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:41,850
Customer Support Manager, Mike
Dell. And let me unmute both of

298
00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:42,450
these guys.

299
00:17:43,410 --> 00:17:44,100
So guys,

300
00:17:44,670 --> 00:17:47,310
in the morning, I do in the
morning to you, Todd.

301
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,660
Thanks for having us on your
board meeting. This is awesome.

302
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,180
Well, we love having guests at
the board meeting.

303
00:17:54,269 --> 00:17:56,309
It's now a bunch of old guys and
me.

304
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,630
Please, damn, shut up.

305
00:18:01,260 --> 00:18:02,490
You know what? It's true?

306
00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:06,150
Well, sadly, it is. You're my
age, aren't you? Todd? You're

307
00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:09,450
about same age. Yeah, same age.
And I'm a

308
00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:14,520
little younger than you guys. So
you're 55? I'm just gonna say,

309
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,890
yeah, we're all up there. Maybe
we should just start a little

310
00:18:19,890 --> 00:18:23,670
bit with the with the history of
blueberry. It's been around for

311
00:18:23,670 --> 00:18:27,210
a long time. It's a staple. I
mean, I would say, if you ask

312
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:31,170
anybody. You know, there's a
couple names that come to mind

313
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:35,550
about podcasting host podcast
hosting companies, and

314
00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:38,370
blueberries always there.
Probably also, I think the name

315
00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:42,540
has always been intriguing, as
irritating as I find it to have

316
00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:46,290
to add that to every dictionary
on every device I've ever owned.

317
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:49,410
Tell me feel the pain.

318
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,190
Tell me about the name. Todd. I
don't know if we even know this.

319
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:55,500
This, this the reason behind
this?

320
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,430
Well, you know, the history of
the company really started when

321
00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:03,180
I had gotten an ad deal with
GoDaddy. And they asked did I

322
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:06,570
know any other podcasters that
wanted to advertise in podcasts?

323
00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:10,110
I said, Well, I need help. So I
formed a business. Basically,

324
00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:12,600
the people that formed the
company with me came from my

325
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,680
audience. So I basically I need
a lawyer. I need a Biz Dev, I

326
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:22,170
need a guy. And I found those
guys on on the show. And we

327
00:19:22,170 --> 00:19:26,340
started the company together and
the company's actual name is raw

328
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:28,110
voice, but no one knows that.

329
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:31,110
Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. Of
course. Yeah.

330
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:35,760
my paycheck. Mike's paycheck
says raw voice on it. But really

331
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,070
what happened was is we launched
part of our first initiative. We

332
00:19:41,070 --> 00:19:44,010
launched a site called podcaster
news. And it was basically

333
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,560
trying to be like, short
snippets of podcasts from me.

334
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,000
Yeah, I remember. And that was,
you know, that was one of those

335
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,430
spitballs sheets or on the wall.
That didn't work. Well, what

336
00:19:56,430 --> 00:19:58,860
year was that? That was oh five

337
00:20:00,030 --> 00:20:05,100
Okay, and now, I remember you
wrote a book, maybe two books.

338
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,130
Did. Could I cooperate on that
that I talked to you?

339
00:20:08,670 --> 00:20:13,380
You did provided me because I
went out yesterday.

340
00:20:15,179 --> 00:20:17,999
I remember in the beginning, so
at a certain point, everybody

341
00:20:17,999 --> 00:20:21,659
was calling me about a book.
Yeah. And I think I said no to

342
00:20:21,689 --> 00:20:24,719
almost everybody. And they want
four words and like, I'm not

343
00:20:24,719 --> 00:20:27,359
interested. And I got other
things to do. I really

344
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,529
appreciate it. But just go do
your book. The stories is well

345
00:20:31,529 --> 00:20:35,039
known. Did we talk in person on
the phone or email?

346
00:20:35,459 --> 00:20:39,629
I email? So I am. Yeah, we get
some emails back and forth.

347
00:20:39,689 --> 00:20:42,509
Well, we might as well dive into
this right now. Because I don't

348
00:20:42,509 --> 00:20:44,639
know what you children are
doing. But you're you're making

349
00:20:44,639 --> 00:20:47,909
a mess of my podcasting. 2.0.
With you're looking backwards

350
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:50,669
crap. Let's settle this once.
And for all, what's going on?

351
00:20:53,670 --> 00:20:55,530
podcasting is 20 years old.

352
00:20:55,710 --> 00:20:56,370
Yeah.

353
00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:02,760
I think the concepts go back pro
late 2000. And then, you know,

354
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,150
the conversation you had with
Dave, so the other the other

355
00:21:06,150 --> 00:21:07,230
day. All right.

356
00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:12,930
So the controversy here, since I
think I want to go too deep into

357
00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:18,150
it. But the controversy is that
pod news published kind of a

358
00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:24,000
republish of I think it was Dave
Weiner's blog post about the

359
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,900
history of podcasting. And
which, which the the, the

360
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,440
history of the Genesis goat?
Well, I mean, technically, you

361
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,950
could say goes back to the
invention of TCP IP, which is

362
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:37,260
what a lot of people do when it
comes to the history of

363
00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:43,350
something. But it does go back
to 2000. Based upon a concept

364
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:49,470
that I had. So pod news, did I
thought it was more like tongue

365
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:51,810
in cheek, you know, like, hey,
it's actually 20 years of

366
00:21:51,810 --> 00:21:56,700
podcasting. Congratulations.
And, and, you know, when you're

367
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,510
when you're dealing in text, and
people are publishing articles,

368
00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:04,170
and you can read it with
whatever intonation you want.

369
00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:08,880
And I thought, and most of it
was kind of in jest, but did you

370
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,330
take offense to that? Because
you wrote the history of

371
00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:16,260
podcasting, you wrote the book,
did you find that that was, what

372
00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:19,170
was your you push back on him, I
would say,

373
00:22:20,009 --> 00:22:24,209
the only thing I push back on
was my definition of when

374
00:22:24,209 --> 00:22:29,669
podcasting truly started, is
when you had a desktop, and you

375
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:33,089
know all about this desktop
software application, which

376
00:22:33,089 --> 00:22:36,419
would read an RSS feed with an
enclosure, automatically

377
00:22:36,419 --> 00:22:40,889
download that media and sync it
to a media device, and all the

378
00:22:40,889 --> 00:22:45,389
creators and people that came in
this space, as a result of that,

379
00:22:45,389 --> 00:22:49,859
that's where I kind of drew the
line is the basic start of

380
00:22:49,859 --> 00:22:53,999
podcasting. But we know it and I
haven't acknowledged and I give

381
00:22:53,999 --> 00:22:58,649
full credit to Dave and you and
everyone else that that the

382
00:22:58,649 --> 00:23:05,279
idea. And the enclosure tag
discussion happened 2000 2001.

383
00:23:05,939 --> 00:23:11,399
And what's new, and what was new
of this morning is there was

384
00:23:11,399 --> 00:23:18,449
some inclination made that Dave
had made a pod catcher back in

385
00:23:18,449 --> 00:23:22,559
2001. And I'm thinking, this is
news to me. Now, I know he had

386
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:25,169
done stuff in user land and
included it there and did some

387
00:23:25,169 --> 00:23:29,909
test stuff that I'd never heard
that he built a pod Catcher in

388
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:35,789
2001. You know, the iPod came
late 2001. And there was really

389
00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:38,069
nothing else now I'll give you
I'll give you this story.

390
00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:41,850
All right. Last time, I'm gonna
do it later. And we're all gonna

391
00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:42,300
stop.

392
00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:45,060
Sounds good.

393
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:51,120
In 2000, I was in Amsterdam. And
this part of the story is

394
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,180
important. At the same time,
it's kind of funny because this

395
00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:58,470
part of the story is completely
obsolete. The whole idea behind

396
00:23:58,740 --> 00:24:03,540
this, this subscription podcast,
or the subscription content

397
00:24:03,540 --> 00:24:09,300
delivery is obsolete. But this
is this is how it came to be. I

398
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,450
had a cable modem in in
Amsterdam, which meant we had

399
00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:15,690
always on computing that was
being sold as such, you didn't

400
00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:18,600
have great bandwidth, but yet
always on computing, so you

401
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,360
didn't have to dial in with your
modem. And there was no

402
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,720
experience for video, we had
QuickTime video, but just a

403
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,200
short little, we didn't really
have great codecs. And before

404
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,310
you knew it, a video of a couple
minutes could be 100 megabytes.

405
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,800
And that would take you know
that could take five or 10

406
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,010
minutes or even longer to
download. So any and I was only

407
00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:40,650
looking at video, although
Napster had my attention that

408
00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:45,060
came up around the same time,
which was also an artifact of

409
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:49,170
always on computing. So it was
it wasn't a spiffy slick, fast

410
00:24:49,170 --> 00:24:53,490
system. But people's computers
were on so easy to initiate

411
00:24:53,490 --> 00:24:59,130
downloads of content that you
wanted. So but even then,

412
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,580
there's no experience We had
real audio real video, which

413
00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:07,260
was, you know, very questionable
quality. And you had to license

414
00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:11,670
it. And you couldn't just start
up. And I considered that I

415
00:25:11,670 --> 00:25:15,690
wrote an essay about this called
the last yard. And the idea was

416
00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:18,030
you had something running on
your computer, which was now

417
00:25:18,030 --> 00:25:21,870
always on by default, that would
be looking for a piece of

418
00:25:21,870 --> 00:25:26,340
content that you want media. And
because you're, you're asking it

419
00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:30,030
to pay attention to it, which
would be a subscription. And if

420
00:25:30,030 --> 00:25:33,150
it sees it, it would download
it, and it would not notify you

421
00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:35,970
the user until it was
downloaded. So therefore, you

422
00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:39,030
remove the entire weight, you
don't know what's happening. So

423
00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:41,340
it doesn't really matter. When
you watch the news, you're

424
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:44,700
watching video from earlier in
the day or five weeks ago, it

425
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:47,370
doesn't really matter when it
was, when it was produced. It's

426
00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:51,540
the moment when it's presented.
And so I, Dave had radio user

427
00:25:51,540 --> 00:25:54,150
land, which I was interested in,
because I'm a very bad

428
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:59,550
developer, I can't even be call
myself. That's how bad I am.

429
00:25:59,970 --> 00:26:04,770
And, and he has proprietary
scripting language, I was trying

430
00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:08,370
to figure that out. But I knew
that this could be built somehow

431
00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:12,240
with something like this. And I
tried to explain it to him. I

432
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,330
don't think he appreciated me in
general, you know, like some a

433
00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:17,910
whole Hollywood guy, you know,
what is he doing here trying to

434
00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:21,030
tell me what to do. I went back
the next day, I flew to New York

435
00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:25,680
specifically for this. And Dave,
the next day, he thought about

436
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,810
it, I explained it again, I had
done a little mock up in his

437
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:35,490
application Radio userland to
show how it would work. And he

438
00:26:35,490 --> 00:26:38,760
said, Okay, I get it. I'm gonna
put this in. And I'll show you

439
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,000
how, but I only do it if you
promise to never, ever touch my

440
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,380
software again. So okay, not not
too hard.

441
00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:49,740
When we add in the timeline,
now, this is 2000. I'm still

442
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:54,930
in New York. And he had, he was
at that moment, a radio user

443
00:26:54,930 --> 00:27:02,010
land use use RSS or ODOT. Nine
to I guess, just for an end user

444
00:27:02,010 --> 00:27:05,130
land, it was called radio user
land, which appealed to me,

445
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,730
because you could broadcast and
receive it was a transceiver. So

446
00:27:08,730 --> 00:27:12,210
you could create a feed, and had
a whole aggregator structure,

447
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:17,010
exactly like a podcast pod
catcher. On the back end, you

448
00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:20,610
could subscribe, you could
unsubscribe, you could do a

449
00:27:20,610 --> 00:27:23,730
river, you could do all you
could segregate by, by

450
00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:27,330
individual feed all of that. And
just it worked as a desktop app

451
00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:32,160
with a little server on your, on
your machine and just talked to

452
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:38,580
the local hosts on 5335 or
something. So when that was

453
00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:43,560
implemented, that's when RSS 2.0
came to life. And with the

454
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,560
enclosure tag, and we were
sending, you know, I was

455
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,980
subscribed to his feed, he was
subscribed to mine for years.

456
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:53,040
And I wake up and there'd be a
video file from something in New

457
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,450
York. Now, to say, That's not a
pod catcher. We didn't have the

458
00:27:57,450 --> 00:28:03,180
pod, the iPod, we didn't have
the name. But what we had is

459
00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:08,310
more of a movement. So even to
say that anyone is any one

460
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:13,020
individual is responsible. Is
this kind of bogus, I think in

461
00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:16,020
technology in general, because
you can go back, you know, well,

462
00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:18,900
I used to do cassettes and put
them online, and I had an email

463
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:21,870
and it's all a lot more of the
same basic system, is

464
00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:24,420
podcasting, really that much
different than an inbox the way

465
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:31,470
it's presented today. And so
that's when the daily source

466
00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:35,460
code came out, because I needed
to find developers who would

467
00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:39,510
create these dedicated
applications called pod

468
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:43,530
catchers. But that was three
years later. Yeah, that wasn't

469
00:28:43,530 --> 00:28:48,720
until I saw my first iPod. And
that's when the apple script

470
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,890
came to life. That just
replicated what Radio userland

471
00:28:52,890 --> 00:28:56,250
was doing with an extra trick,
which is you download it and

472
00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:59,430
then you trigger these
downloaded to iTunes and you

473
00:28:59,430 --> 00:29:02,790
triggered an update to the iPod.
And of course, I could make that

474
00:29:02,790 --> 00:29:05,850
scale. It was just a script that
would you know, run and, and

475
00:29:05,850 --> 00:29:08,670
look at one feed. And so that's,
that's when I was like, Oh,

476
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:11,220
shit, well, I had this feed. Let
me get out there and start

477
00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:13,440
talking about it. And I had a
blog, which was pretty new at

478
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,230
the time. So and that that's
really how we built it.

479
00:29:17,310 --> 00:29:20,520
So the lag why the lag between
the time that you thought

480
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:20,700
because

481
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:23,550
I had to why I hadn't I hadn't
seen the iPod when I saw the

482
00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:26,430
iPod, the light when the iPod
had been around for a couple

483
00:29:26,430 --> 00:29:30,600
years. The light went off. I'm
like, Oh, hold on a second radio

484
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,800
receiver. That's that's what
triggered it for me. Now,

485
00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:39,960
specifically about podcasting. I
disagree with pretty much

486
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,330
everybody. I feel that a podcast
does not have to be a show. It

487
00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:49,350
does not have to be what we're
doing here. I feel a university

488
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:55,800
professor who is puts his
lectures on a feed that's a

489
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:01,530
podcast and I'm a little
perturbed by And I think you

490
00:30:01,530 --> 00:30:04,950
don't even agree with me. But I
think a podcast doesn't have to

491
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:09,000
be a show. It can be really
something functional. It can be

492
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,330
a book, it could be an album, it
can be so many different things.

493
00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:16,140
We're stuck in a rut. With that
with the terminology.

494
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,440
Our plugin supports audio PDF
video, because we know that the

495
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,330
enclosure can be anything.

496
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,850
Correct? Correct. So the so the,
the issue is, you know, that I

497
00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:32,790
think the term podcasting is
what throws everybody off

498
00:30:32,790 --> 00:30:37,440
because the act of what people
understand podcasting to be not

499
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,680
the technical system, the act of
what people mean. So you could,

500
00:30:43,710 --> 00:30:50,070
you could arguably say, because
Dave, was putting this one local

501
00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:55,020
public radio show onto his, onto
a feed with enclosures. And he

502
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:58,740
was doing this before there was
an iPod. So also not a podcast.

503
00:30:59,340 --> 00:31:03,000
You know, it was a radio show,
put in a feed with enclosures

504
00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:05,940
does not get credited as the
first podcast because there was

505
00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:11,850
no iPod. So it's really
semantics as to what when it was

506
00:31:11,850 --> 00:31:15,600
invented, when it when it
happened. What I take credit for

507
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,800
is coming up with the idea of
the subscription with a delay.

508
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,620
And at the time, it was
necessary, because we didn't

509
00:31:22,620 --> 00:31:26,250
have the bandwidth. Now, it
really only functions. Thank

510
00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:31,500
goodness, as an open protocol
for people to organize podcast

511
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:35,220
and I'm and that has turned out
to be a very, very valuable

512
00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:36,180
tool.

513
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,050
Well, happy then to the 21st
year in podcasting.

514
00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:43,440
So no, to me worse,

515
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:45,090
it's worse than it appears.
Yeah,

516
00:31:45,090 --> 00:31:47,280
there's there's no date. You
know, that's what I'm saying.

517
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,960
There's no right. And, to me,
podcasting 2.0 we know when that

518
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:52,470
started,

519
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:56,220
right. I consider it a badge of
honor to be chastised. But

520
00:31:56,220 --> 00:31:59,130
they've learned how to not use
this software or how to not

521
00:31:59,130 --> 00:31:59,850
program yourself

522
00:31:59,850 --> 00:32:02,430
or it was the start of an
interesting relationship.

523
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:09,510
I don't know if there's actually
a great agreed upon definition

524
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,310
of podcast and no,

525
00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:14,730
there is not there is not like
and that and that's my beef is

526
00:32:14,730 --> 00:32:19,080
like I and part of my it's not
in our mission statement, which

527
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,140
is preserved podcasting as
platform for free speech and

528
00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:25,920
retool podcasting as a platform
of value for all. But when you

529
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:31,170
start a podcast to date, you
still are not really official,

530
00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:37,530
and you're not a podcast until
Apple has approved you. And that

531
00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:40,650
part I didn't ever really
focused on. But now it just

532
00:32:40,650 --> 00:32:44,730
really pisses me off. Anybody
should be able to build a feed

533
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,260
right now have it in all apps in
10 minutes. That's the way it

534
00:32:49,260 --> 00:32:53,760
should be. And that means that
it can be Why isn't it a

535
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,720
reporter? A reporter who does
uploading little bits, you know

536
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,050
that everybody can, can can you
know, it's very easy. It's very

537
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,540
efficient system like, Okay, I
got a new feed, boom, here we

538
00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:06,150
go. here's, here's my interviews
that coming down the pipe and

539
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:07,200
just publish them that way.

540
00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:12,510
Blueberry, blueberry has a
directory. And What do y'all

541
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:15,750
consider? Like, how do y'all get
your feeds? Or how do you vet

542
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:17,760
them and say, Okay, this is
something we will put in the

543
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,700
directory. They're in, let me
give you more detail on what I'm

544
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:25,050
saying. Because we what I
constantly trying to find this,

545
00:33:25,170 --> 00:33:28,170
there's this continuum between
what you would call a podcast

546
00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:32,850
feed, and what's just plain RSS.
And so is it a podcast feed if

547
00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:39,660
an enclosure only shows up once
every 75 posts? Or is it? I

548
00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:41,610
mean, like, I, I'm not

549
00:33:41,730 --> 00:33:45,690
sure when as long as enclosures
in the we don't up because we're

550
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:49,890
doing a podcast directory, we
only show the posts that contain

551
00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:53,580
an enclosure. But yeah, it could
be 75 in between 75 posts, and

552
00:33:53,580 --> 00:33:55,020
we will still update

553
00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:58,260
as long as the closure.

554
00:33:59,610 --> 00:34:04,860
This is the thing that I'm so
sad about is that we have this

555
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:10,170
beautiful system, everything's
in place. It's a beautiful API.

556
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,000
Anybody can create an app that
talks to this. I mean, even if I

557
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,460
really set my mind to it, I'm
sure I could steal enough

558
00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:21,330
frameworks and codes to get
something working. But everyone

559
00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:25,200
is stuck in the same show
mentality. Where is my

560
00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:27,090
university lecture app?

561
00:34:28,049 --> 00:34:30,209
Let's say that I don't have a
problem like that's fine.

562
00:34:30,299 --> 00:34:31,349
Nobody. No one

563
00:34:31,350 --> 00:34:34,470
does it. No one does it. It
we're still working in the words

564
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:38,790
of and for obvious reasons of
broadcasting. I have a show.

565
00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:42,540
There's so much opportunity out
there. It doesn't have to be

566
00:34:42,990 --> 00:34:47,010
everything the apps the way the
hosting companies function. It's

567
00:34:47,010 --> 00:34:50,940
all built around the concept the
words that you see are making

568
00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:54,480
you build a an entertainment or
information show not

569
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,730
necessarily. An information feed
with items in there that can be

570
00:34:59,730 --> 00:35:00,660
destroyed. Did this way

571
00:35:00,660 --> 00:35:04,710
does that make sense? Yeah. But
Adam, just so you know, we do we

572
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:08,640
do update if someone's got a
PDF, it's not, we follow the

573
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:09,600
letter of the law, but

574
00:35:11,010 --> 00:35:13,710
you're missing my point. It's
the interface that you use to

575
00:35:13,710 --> 00:35:17,430
create the tools. The interface
you use to, to listen to

576
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:23,520
podcasts is geared towards a Joe
Rogan NPR show type of model.

577
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,960
And that's what it's portraying.
It's never I mean, okay, we'll

578
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,430
take your PDF example, there
could be an app that uses all

579
00:35:32,430 --> 00:35:35,340
the functionality of podcasting,
that only displays and has

580
00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:41,670
searchable. Or let's say it has
feeds of medical studies that

581
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:45,930
are PDFs. Because no one builds
an app for it. No one thinks of

582
00:35:45,930 --> 00:35:48,660
it. So the content is never
created, where it's such a

583
00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:52,500
beautiful kancil culture proof
system.

584
00:35:53,070 --> 00:35:57,450
Right? They feed readers back in
the day for blogs, it's the same

585
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,720
sort of idea except for you're
using an enclosure rather than

586
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,430
just the text of the RSS.

587
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:07,980
Exactly. And that was killed off
by Google. Why? Well, obviously,

588
00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:11,280
they have they want to own your
feed, everything is a feed these

589
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,490
days, Twitter or Facebook,
everything's a feed.

590
00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:17,970
When we tell people that they
can put other other things

591
00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:21,930
besides audio in their feeds,
they're blown away. Most people

592
00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:25,650
don't know. You know, they don't
even know they can do video

593
00:36:25,650 --> 00:36:27,690
podcasts, you know, and I can
get that,

594
00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:32,640
too. This is another one for me.
It's like, holy crap. Everyone's

595
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,300
app will do almost everyone's
app does video. But do you know

596
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:39,540
how many people are coming to me
saying I wouldn't be able to do

597
00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:44,430
video? Like it works right now.
Yeah, but that's podcast. So the

598
00:36:44,430 --> 00:36:48,750
words are important. If you want
to have a have a video site, you

599
00:36:48,750 --> 00:36:54,660
got to build it with the YouTube
rumble Vimeo type language. And

600
00:36:54,660 --> 00:36:54,960
well, there's

601
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,950
apps out there, you know, a lot
of these new, newer commercial

602
00:36:58,980 --> 00:37:01,170
podcast apps don't do video,

603
00:37:01,410 --> 00:37:04,740
right? Well, oh, my goodness,
there's an even better reason to

604
00:37:04,740 --> 00:37:09,180
do it. What the heck people? And
we're streaming a web app easy.

605
00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:12,840
He said, with his developer hat
on.

606
00:37:14,070 --> 00:37:16,440
And then and then I'll throw the
business owner hat on when I

607
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,810
tell them that's probably going
to cost them more, because

608
00:37:18,810 --> 00:37:23,760
that's true bandwidth, you know,
hardly use it. Was it true? Now,

609
00:37:23,850 --> 00:37:26,430
I know you got a solution for
that. But you know, there is

610
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,180
there is a cost, you know,
because of that bandwidth. No,

611
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:31,440
you walked into my trap. That's

612
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,310
not ideal solutions, you walked
into it. So ipfs, the

613
00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:38,580
interplanetary file system, this
thing has been in my life. I

614
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:42,240
think for eight years, we've had
Dave and I've been playing with

615
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,220
it way before podcast index. And
we've seen it work, we

616
00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:51,240
understand how it works. Now we
had a some it came back on the

617
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:55,500
radar, even though it's been
discussed at podcast index dot

618
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:57,780
social for a while came back on
the radar with the brave

619
00:37:57,810 --> 00:38:03,510
integration of ipfs. So you can
just use the ipfs hash, and it

620
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:11,670
will find the file. So ipfs has
not never really picked up in

621
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:18,000
the mainstream. And and I think
it's for business reasons, I'm

622
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,840
not sure. But when I look at
ipfs, and think, wow, what can

623
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:33,630
we do with the hosting companies
to either a, lower your cost by

624
00:38:33,630 --> 00:38:41,820
distributing the load. B gives
you more things that you can

625
00:38:41,820 --> 00:38:47,070
offer your customers or see
both? Because it feels to me

626
00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:50,730
like it's possible. And I wonder
if you've looked at the use case

627
00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:52,920
and what you've come up with,
from your standpoint,

628
00:38:53,490 --> 00:38:56,340
I just brought the website up.
And I'll be honest with anything

629
00:38:56,340 --> 00:39:01,320
that will allow me to not have
to pay my bandwidth bill via a

630
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,160
bank transfer versus a credit
card gets my attention. So you

631
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,640
know, but if we also think about
IP Fs, I'm going to investigate

632
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,270
it. I have I don't know anything
about it until now. But Adam, we

633
00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:15,330
used to do our podcast situation
via BitTorrent too.

634
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,380
And I still have a bit torrents
of my shows published and and

635
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:24,510
this comes down to my next
question, which is really

636
00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:28,980
something I've seen being
brought up for over a decade.

637
00:39:29,310 --> 00:39:32,040
And I've never seen a resolution
are understood. And I don't know

638
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,470
if it's just something someone
needs to kick it over and do it.

639
00:39:35,610 --> 00:39:42,750
How do we handle the concept of
multiple enclosures? If I Yeah,

640
00:39:42,780 --> 00:39:46,200
well, this this is the big
question. And I and maybe I can

641
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:52,800
be maybe I can be an arbiter
somehow. But why, why is this

642
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:58,200
not universally done? It's hard.
It's hard.

643
00:39:58,260 --> 00:40:01,380
It's hard for the it's hard for
the app. I think I have an

644
00:40:01,380 --> 00:40:03,750
answer to that. Because like,
okay, for instance, when we

645
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:08,280
wrote the freedom controller, I,
I gave it support from the very

646
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,530
beginning for multiple
enclosures, even though I think

647
00:40:10,530 --> 00:40:12,810
Weiner said it's not, I think
he's always said that that was

648
00:40:12,810 --> 00:40:13,800
not part of the spec. And

649
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,320
he's always said namespace.

650
00:40:16,770 --> 00:40:20,580
Yeah. And so but but I read the
spec over and over again, and I

651
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,910
just couldn't see where it
didn't allow it in the language.

652
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:27,390
So I said, well, we'll support
enclosure, multiple enclosures

653
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,600
on the on the aggregator side,
and then we'll also support it

654
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:35,190
on the production side. And for
for just a river of news, it

655
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:41,160
works fine. But on a podcast
app, it gets, it can get a

656
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,940
little wonky. And I think people
just not sure how to handle

657
00:40:44,970 --> 00:40:45,690
well.

658
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,990
What am I getting a lot of the
pod catchers is if you have

659
00:40:48,990 --> 00:40:52,800
multiple enclosures, some of
them will pick the first one,

660
00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:55,860
some of them will pick the
second one or the last one.

661
00:40:56,130 --> 00:40:59,730
That's never you can never know
know what, you know, the app

662
00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:01,260
itself is going to pull.

663
00:41:01,590 --> 00:41:04,830
And when we when we say that,
Mike, do you really mean you

664
00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:06,720
don't know what Apple's App is
going to do?

665
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:10,290
Well, it could be, you know,
apple, or whatever Apple is,

666
00:41:10,290 --> 00:41:14,100
does the first one, I think cuz
there's multiples. But yeah, I

667
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:17,100
get that all the time. You know,
people have these feeds they

668
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:21,630
create, and they have, you know,
an mp3 file and a photo and

669
00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:25,980
something else in it. And it
works on some apps and doesn't

670
00:41:25,980 --> 00:41:28,950
work on others or totally
crashes some apps,

671
00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:31,500
personally, and I'll say
blueberry has multiple

672
00:41:31,530 --> 00:41:34,500
enclosures support, like you can
put multiple in the same feed

673
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:38,010
item like episode No, we don't
support that. And that was a

674
00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:42,510
decision that we made because of
basically following what

675
00:41:42,510 --> 00:41:45,180
everyone else was doing, you
know, Apple and everyone else so

676
00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:48,420
we, you know, we had to build, I
guess for a better reason to

677
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:50,820
make sure that you know,
podcasters episodes we're

678
00:41:50,820 --> 00:41:54,090
getting into into the various
directories but at the same

679
00:41:54,090 --> 00:41:58,710
point, I'm of the opinion and
probably be opposite of your

680
00:41:58,710 --> 00:42:02,970
guys's is that, I think multiple
enclosures in a single RSS feed

681
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,040
or single episode item is bad.
And the reason I think that is I

682
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,040
like to be able to brand my
content differently between

683
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,620
video and audio or any other
content. So I want separate

684
00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:17,610
beats now. I could do both, I
guess. But I think Adam, this

685
00:42:17,610 --> 00:42:20,430
argument was going on in Oh,
506. And he

686
00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:25,590
was he was and and I'm going to
side with Dave Winer on this

687
00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:30,960
one, because I witnessed that,
that close up, and I, I want to

688
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:37,140
respect what he what he did and
did not want to know that. There

689
00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:39,240
were because they were well,
there's another thing that was

690
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,000
going on then but to me.

691
00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:49,470
Ah, was he a poor single? Or was
he okay? But no single single.

692
00:42:49,470 --> 00:42:49,710
And he

693
00:42:49,710 --> 00:42:52,470
says if you want to, if you want
to do more, there were there

694
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:56,430
were two arguments at the time.
One was the multiple enclosures

695
00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:59,910
and the other was where the
shownotes go, which he also said

696
00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:06,000
namespace. Yeah. And so for me,
I want to respect that because

697
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,360
we know technically we know what
to do. To me, I see a much

698
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,310
bigger picture. And here would
be my he would be my example.

699
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:25,410
And I'm just going to use ipfs
because I because it works. So

700
00:43:25,410 --> 00:43:30,420
you have in the namespace and
ipfs enclosure, hash. Wait,

701
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:30,840
wait, wait, wait.

702
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:33,840
He needs some namespace talk to
me. We're talking about

703
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:34,740
namespaces Oh my

704
00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:36,450
god, I'm so sorry. What do

705
00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:42,930
now it's time for? Nah. Oh,
yeah. I

706
00:43:42,930 --> 00:43:44,220
want to add something

707
00:43:44,220 --> 00:43:45,510
to your namespace baby.

708
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:46,710
Give him a cigarette.

709
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:50,940
Yeah, baby.

710
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:57,180
I would have an ipfs tag, it
would be the hash for an

711
00:43:57,180 --> 00:44:03,390
enclosure. And that would, I
would say be something that

712
00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:08,010
would be a follow up to the
value for value payments being

713
00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:13,110
integrated to the way I see it.
If I have a podcast app that

714
00:44:13,110 --> 00:44:22,170
supports both payments and ipfs.
I would consider getting a piece

715
00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:26,730
of the action based upon me also
hosting the file. And maybe that

716
00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:28,500
happens in the app I'm using.

717
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,690
Oh pay? Yeah, you're paying for
her. Yeah, you're allowing

718
00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:36,480
anybody to be at anybody to host
that content. Yeah.

719
00:44:36,510 --> 00:44:39,870
So unfortunate for you. Yes. So
I'm so I'm, I'm conflict

720
00:44:39,870 --> 00:44:45,960
relating to things. But to me in
general, the ipfs as an

721
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,980
enclosure, to me, it seems like
throw that in the namespace

722
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:52,620
because otherwise we're just
going to argue for 10 more years

723
00:44:52,620 --> 00:44:55,350
and Apple's not going to do it.
No one's going to do it and look

724
00:44:55,350 --> 00:45:01,080
how far we've gotten just by
putting in one one shunt really,

725
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,160
which is podcaster wallet comm
you know, the shunt waiting for

726
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,120
people like on a blueberry to
add stuff to their, to their

727
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,980
authoring tools before people
can add data into their feed?

728
00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:17,670
Why would we do exactly the same
with ipfs? It's going to be a

729
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:20,550
small group. Anyway, that's
testing it initially. But I

730
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:24,900
think, again, here's a use case
that we can present at scale to

731
00:45:24,900 --> 00:45:26,580
the ipfs. community.

732
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,400
I like it, it decouples the tool
and it decouples the tools from

733
00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:35,190
from the burden of doing the
hosting, because I think the

734
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:40,290
value of like, the value of
blueberry and in podcast hosting

735
00:45:40,620 --> 00:45:44,670
is the is the tools that you
bring. It's not the pie. I mean,

736
00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:48,300
because that's I agree. And you
can, because anybody can just

737
00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:53,280
buy bandwidth and where it's
mostly it's that the blueberry

738
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:54,720
provides, however,

739
00:45:55,590 --> 00:45:57,150
however, however,

740
00:45:57,540 --> 00:45:58,830
and the consulting to go with
it.

741
00:46:00,510 --> 00:46:04,410
We're very fortunate to have two
guys in the business here. And I

742
00:46:04,410 --> 00:46:08,040
want to hear Todd with his
business hat on, what are the

743
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,030
downsides? Because I, I can one
I think immediate is stats that

744
00:46:12,030 --> 00:46:13,650
may become an issue. Am I
correct?

745
00:46:14,399 --> 00:46:18,989
stats may not? Well, there may
be a way around the stats, but

746
00:46:18,989 --> 00:46:22,049
you're you know, then we're
talking about? Well, there's two

747
00:46:22,049 --> 00:46:25,259
ways to do it to have some sort
of redress reporting the carries

748
00:46:25,259 --> 00:46:30,869
along with that link, or some
sort of ping back. But, you

749
00:46:30,869 --> 00:46:32,999
know, that's a whole nother
lengthy discussion.

750
00:46:34,830 --> 00:46:37,950
How about how about in general,
the concept of implementing

751
00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:41,970
something like this, which could
theoretically lower your actual

752
00:46:42,690 --> 00:46:43,350
overhead?

753
00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:46,560
Yeah, that's, that's always
something that I would I would

754
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,740
definitely look at. Now, you
know, here's the thing. We're

755
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:51,840
just like any other company, I'm
going to throw this over to

756
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,800
Angelo, and he's gonna go, are
you kidding? I can save you

757
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,630
$10,000 a month in our $20,000 a
month and bandwidth? Is this

758
00:47:00,630 --> 00:47:03,330
worth a month of dev time? And
you know, that answer is

759
00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:07,320
probably yes. But, again, you
can't just be the sole player in

760
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,130
the block, you got to have wide
adoption, in order to scale

761
00:47:11,130 --> 00:47:11,430
this.

762
00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:15,720
What do you think? And I'm glad
you brought up Angela, because I

763
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,020
appreciate him getting involved
in the namespace on GitHub, but

764
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:21,720
he's already he's already
changed some directions on a few

765
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:24,870
things that have been very
helpful. And one of the things

766
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:30,060
like from, you know, from that
standpoint, you know, what, what

767
00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:35,490
do you when y'all when y'all
decide to implement a tag? I

768
00:47:35,490 --> 00:47:37,830
know that for the most part,
it's like, you got to figure out

769
00:47:37,830 --> 00:47:41,250
what's the, what's the balance?
What's the trade off between

770
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,860
spending all this time doing it?
And how much bang for the buck

771
00:47:43,860 --> 00:47:47,010
is gonna have? Like, what?
What's your thinking process on

772
00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:49,890
where to? So the reason I'm
bringing this up is something

773
00:47:49,890 --> 00:47:54,630
like, there's a tech proposal
that's not in, it's not been put

774
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:57,990
into a phase yet. There's a tech
proposal for something called

775
00:47:58,020 --> 00:48:02,400
alternate enclosure, which would
allow you to have a allow you to

776
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,850
have multiple enclosures, and
some of them be low bandwidth

777
00:48:05,850 --> 00:48:08,280
versions and that kind of thing.
I mean, like, when you see

778
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,210
something like that, what,
what's the thought process there

779
00:48:12,210 --> 00:48:15,060
about where to prioritize
something like that on a

780
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:15,690
roadmap?

781
00:48:16,140 --> 00:48:21,300
I think it really boils down to
is who's paying our bills?

782
00:48:21,330 --> 00:48:24,420
podcasters. So what are we
trying to do, we're trying to

783
00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:27,690
help podcasters we're trying to
build things for them that will

784
00:48:27,690 --> 00:48:30,900
help them grow their show and
grow their audiences. That's,

785
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:33,870
that's our number one goal. Of
course, we're provide tools to

786
00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:39,120
but I think that we have to look
at, you know, I'm gonna throw a

787
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,050
big word out there, we user
personas, Every company has user

788
00:48:43,050 --> 00:48:45,930
personas, specific types of
people that use your service.

789
00:48:46,290 --> 00:48:49,260
And then we have to say, well,
this user persona use this or

790
00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:54,210
not, will it benefit them? Or,
more importantly, has a 500

791
00:48:54,210 --> 00:48:56,610
people ask for this feature? Or
have three

792
00:48:56,939 --> 00:49:01,199
that's gonna say, you know, is
is you know, if we have a

793
00:49:01,199 --> 00:49:04,559
podcasters saying, hey, how come
you haven't implemented that and

794
00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:08,129
I can prove that hey, we got a
lot of customers or potential

795
00:49:08,129 --> 00:49:12,479
customers that want this that'll
move it up in the stack.

796
00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:14,940
The moving up him?

797
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,430
What a way that was hard.

798
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,960
What would you say to your user
persona? Is that no, some are

799
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,690
more like corporate podcasting.
What What is your sort of bread

800
00:49:24,690 --> 00:49:26,550
and butter? Oh, we,

801
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,210
you know, bread and butter is
people that own their own comms

802
00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:32,730
using WordPress with our
powerpress plugin, you know that

803
00:49:32,730 --> 00:49:35,460
that is, that is one that's, you
know, that's core.

804
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,810
It's the guy sitting next to the
water heater in the basement

805
00:49:39,810 --> 00:49:41,820
doing a show or doing a podcast
that's

806
00:49:41,820 --> 00:49:45,540
true to an independent,
independent podcasters largely

807
00:49:45,540 --> 00:49:48,690
businesses too, but mostly, you
know, if you look at just the

808
00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:52,500
customer type or the podcaster
type, it's it's a business guy,

809
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:54,150
individual that has a website,

810
00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:59,100
tell me about the the pod press
plug in, what functionality does

811
00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:03,090
it provide Does it tap into your
API? Or is it creating the feed

812
00:50:03,090 --> 00:50:05,880
on its own? And just uploading
that and the file to your

813
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,920
servers? How does that
interrupt?

814
00:50:08,490 --> 00:50:11,460
Yeah, power press will work
standalone. Without us, they

815
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:13,980
blueberry could turn the switch
off today and power press but

816
00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:17,370
continuing work. But it is
integrated so that if you're

817
00:50:17,370 --> 00:50:20,250
hosting with us, you can
essentially upload your media

818
00:50:20,250 --> 00:50:25,050
file right within the podcast
post in WordPress. And it's, you

819
00:50:25,050 --> 00:50:27,660
know, I always use the term
create, upload and publish and

820
00:50:27,660 --> 00:50:32,310
you don't leave your own new
basic, your own dashboard. But

821
00:50:32,340 --> 00:50:35,550
it does, it gets created an RSS
feed form. So they have their

822
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:39,390
own RSS feed, they're calm.
There isn't there is API calls

823
00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:41,730
that go back and forth. And of
course, stats integration.

824
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,980
Okay, so there's the when they
if I own a WordPress site, and a

825
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,100
nice power press, I'm uploading
the enclosure file to you guys.

826
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:52,860
But then I'm everything else is
being hosted locally on my

827
00:50:52,860 --> 00:50:56,520
domain, and then that, but then
you also can do some stats off

828
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:57,000
that too.

829
00:50:57,510 --> 00:51:00,510
With the disclaimer, if you
don't want to host with us, you

830
00:51:00,510 --> 00:51:04,710
can drop an link in the you
know, you can you can drop a

831
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:08,220
media link in it as well and
publish it agnostic.

832
00:51:08,670 --> 00:51:09,090
Yeah.

833
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:11,940
Yes. I mean, that's, that's a
great way to decentralize.

834
00:51:11,940 --> 00:51:14,640
Because I mean, that's, yeah,
that's, that's great.

835
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,420
And its power. Its power press,
I don't see them on our apps

836
00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:20,760
page. Are they doing any of the
namespace

837
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,620
iMac packets in this current
sprint lock is going in on this

838
00:51:25,710 --> 00:51:27,060
on this sprint. So so

839
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,910
so let me ask you this, and I
hope I'm not offending you. I'm

840
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:32,940
just, you know, I have to ask
you, because I, I've had

841
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:39,540
businesses, so if you have power
press and perhaps a cast apod

842
00:51:39,540 --> 00:51:42,420
and a couple others, and, and I
can tell you the future that I

843
00:51:42,510 --> 00:51:46,320
that I personally see. But so
what if power presses as an

844
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,700
example? You know, there's a
there's an alternate enclosure,

845
00:51:51,570 --> 00:51:56,820
they have ipfs, both their feed
and, and ipfs works, you know,

846
00:51:56,820 --> 00:52:00,540
and it works with a number of
apps, because it will there's

847
00:52:00,540 --> 00:52:03,780
always going to be a couple of
devs, who will put it in? Does

848
00:52:03,780 --> 00:52:07,590
that threaten your business? Or
do you have thoughts about how

849
00:52:07,590 --> 00:52:11,280
to you know what your USP is, in
that case, towards those types

850
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,090
of customers?

851
00:52:12,570 --> 00:52:15,660
I don't think that threatens our
business. You know, again, we

852
00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:21,750
build tools podcasters need. So
if ipva ipfs becomes a viable

853
00:52:22,170 --> 00:52:27,840
piece. And I don't see any law,
we all again, we're going to

854
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,350
talk about as a team. But at
this same point, the alternate

855
00:52:31,350 --> 00:52:35,250
enclosure piece. Oh, you know,
that one might be harder to get

856
00:52:35,250 --> 00:52:38,610
through the chop chain, because
you know, we've been as long as

857
00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:42,030
it's in a different item, but it
won't be Hmm, that's an

858
00:52:42,030 --> 00:52:45,540
interesting, after lunch, run
that to the CPU a little bit.

859
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:46,620
But

860
00:52:46,770 --> 00:52:49,920
I think I think that falls, that
particular tag falls into the

861
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,430
category of, you know, there's
always the chicken and egg thing

862
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:57,390
this, who implements the tag
First, the podcast, the podcast

863
00:52:57,390 --> 00:53:03,720
app, or the Podcast Producer,
and you're not some some tags.

864
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:09,150
You you feel so confident in
them, in their use case, that as

865
00:53:09,150 --> 00:53:12,840
an as an app, or excuse me, as a
host, you say, Well, that makes

866
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,640
a lot of sense. But then other
tags, it's like, well, it may be

867
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,720
a really good idea. But that's
just not I'm just not sure I

868
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:24,810
want to commit to that. And so
you have, then you have to wait

869
00:53:24,930 --> 00:53:27,870
in that. And only then it
becomes sort of an app first

870
00:53:27,870 --> 00:53:30,240
thing. So it's always like,
well, is it gonna be chicken

871
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:32,790
first or going to be egg first,
I think it's different for every

872
00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:33,330
tag,

873
00:53:33,749 --> 00:53:37,559
I have a hard time prioritizing
something for 3%. And

874
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:43,559
unfortunately, 3% is what leads
the way in developing new trends

875
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:46,919
that the rest of the folks
adopt. So you know, I, I'll

876
00:53:46,919 --> 00:53:49,529
either be on the train or off
the train, and I'll be looking

877
00:53:49,529 --> 00:53:52,619
at the train leaving me going
down the track. And I may be

878
00:53:52,619 --> 00:53:56,309
like, cussing at myself for not
putting that as a dead priority.

879
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:58,649
But it's a hard juggle really is

880
00:53:59,580 --> 00:54:04,830
very, very unique in that we
also have three different feed

881
00:54:04,830 --> 00:54:10,350
generation systems. We got power
press, we've got a traditional

882
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:14,370
publisher system, just like you
know, the rest of them. And then

883
00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:17,400
we also have a Feedburner
replacement called podcasts

884
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,000
mirror, which is another way to
feed so we got to implement it

885
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,020
in three places.

886
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:23,940
Yeah, forgot about that.

887
00:54:24,570 --> 00:54:28,560
Did you and now what is the API?
blueberry has an API. Can you do

888
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,240
all of the functions through an
API?

889
00:54:31,229 --> 00:54:34,649
You can do about 90% of the
stuff through the API. There's

890
00:54:34,649 --> 00:54:38,309
publishing stats pulling all of
them we've got a pretty robust

891
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:41,879
API, including the directory has
an API too. So

892
00:54:41,939 --> 00:54:48,269
if I were if I was Martin,
Martin's one of my favorite

893
00:54:48,269 --> 00:54:51,419
developers, I'm hooked on the
pod friend if I was Martin, or

894
00:54:51,419 --> 00:54:56,189
any one of our fabulous
developers, this is how I would

895
00:54:56,189 --> 00:55:01,919
think and blueberry would fit in
this scenario. perfectly. When I

896
00:55:01,919 --> 00:55:05,879
create a Word document, I do it
in Microsoft Word, then I do all

897
00:55:05,879 --> 00:55:09,209
my formatting and whatever. And
then I save it. And then I send

898
00:55:09,209 --> 00:55:13,109
that file. And many cases, you
can do it interactively, you can

899
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:16,559
share it, but I send that file
to Dave, Dave opens it in word

900
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:22,619
or a, something that understands
word. And, and you know, he can

901
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:26,609
enjoy that and, and read it as I
created it. And you can even

902
00:55:26,609 --> 00:55:31,349
change it and save it any way he
wants. I would have a podcast

903
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:37,079
app that allows the podcaster to
use the same interface. I know

904
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:40,499
how crazy it sounds, but use the
same app that I'm creating my

905
00:55:40,499 --> 00:55:44,159
podcast ID, and why wouldn't I
be able to talk to me?

906
00:55:44,219 --> 00:55:47,909
Technically I can. I can get an
account with with blueberry and

907
00:55:47,909 --> 00:55:50,819
then just say I'm with
blueberry. And this app could be

908
00:55:50,819 --> 00:55:58,049
my it could be my wiziwig huh.
podcast editor, because I would

909
00:55:58,049 --> 00:56:03,509
see how everything looks I see.
Okay. The preview function, of

910
00:56:03,509 --> 00:56:07,349
course, and I can. Alright, I
see my transcripts showing the

911
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:10,469
images are working in the
chapter files. I got everything

912
00:56:10,469 --> 00:56:13,019
all set up. Go done one AP.

913
00:56:14,430 --> 00:56:17,910
And we have Yeah, go ahead. And
we we do have some folks that

914
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:21,540
have integrated with us
Hindenburg, basically. And they

915
00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:22,440
do a very basic and

916
00:56:22,860 --> 00:56:24,870
they save Hindenburg. So I can
do that straight

917
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:27,960
from Hindenburg. Yeah, they can
set you can send the audio file

918
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:31,950
created directly to our to our
platform. So you can't do

919
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,030
publishing but you can send that
media file to us and skip this

920
00:56:36,210 --> 00:56:38,400
step of uploading it. Hindenburg
does that

921
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,450
thing is cool, because you have
that idea is neat, because then

922
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,260
you see it with hyper catcher,
you're you have exactly,

923
00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:49,920
yeah, you're you're creating the
chapters, you creating the

924
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,670
chapters in the same app that
you listen to. Yeah, the next

925
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:56,880
step, the next step for him is
that you can approve those

926
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,820
chapters in the app as well,
instead of going to a back end,

927
00:57:00,510 --> 00:57:05,070
that that's, you know, ink
anchors. whole model is you can

928
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,890
download your download the app
and you can record on your

929
00:57:07,890 --> 00:57:10,920
phone, and just upload it
straight to your to your, you

930
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,190
know, to your profile to your
hosting account. Just like that

931
00:57:14,190 --> 00:57:17,010
would be if somebody could do
that with blueberry as well. If

932
00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:20,040
you had a you know, let's just
say hyper catcher integrated

933
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,130
with blueberry record on your
phone and upload straight to

934
00:57:23,130 --> 00:57:25,620
your blueberry account. You're
doing it in the same app. He

935
00:57:25,620 --> 00:57:26,250
never Yeah,

936
00:57:26,250 --> 00:57:29,040
podcast app. And you could
actually if someone does to

937
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,350
interface so yeah, she published
right there just hit Publish.

938
00:57:31,350 --> 00:57:32,370
And it's it's live.

939
00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:37,080
Now the danger there, of course,
is that if ipfs catches on, then

940
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:41,820
you might have 15 competitors
overnight who have file storage

941
00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:43,710
built into their tool.

942
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,110
Yeah, but that you already
support like, y'all already

943
00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:52,950
supported bit torn. So you know,
and that that was it. Because

944
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:56,400
it's interesting to be about the
tools in the in the in the user

945
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,510
experience more so than just
what Rob Bly who hosts the file?

946
00:58:00,540 --> 00:58:03,960
Yeah, that's a that's a good
question. What what really are

947
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,350
the main features of a podcast
hosting company? And what what

948
00:58:07,350 --> 00:58:10,680
do people respond to when you do
your marketing? And what do they

949
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,620
come to you for? Or what are the
features that they want?

950
00:58:15,330 --> 00:58:19,110
Well, that's what we build to,
you know, and, you know, and

951
00:58:19,110 --> 00:58:22,710
it's all about serving that that
customer need. And you know, our

952
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:25,590
marketing, our marketing pitch
is not much different than any

953
00:58:25,590 --> 00:58:28,320
other podcast hosts. We provide
podcasts hosting with tools and

954
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,530
services to publish and
distribute your show along with

955
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,170
giving them the ability to free
WordPress site. There's the

956
00:58:34,170 --> 00:58:36,300
pitch, you know, I can get a 30
day free trial, blah, blah,

957
00:58:36,300 --> 00:58:36,900
blah, you

958
00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:39,840
also do your you do your
consultation, which I think is

959
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,180
right, should not underestimate
that's a big part of it, is

960
00:58:42,180 --> 00:58:45,930
it not? Yeah. And of course we
talk and you know, nothing is

961
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,560
also that's kind of special
about our tools. We build in

962
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,710
network tools. So podcasters are
building networks. They can

963
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:56,460
build a network, right? Cool.
We've got sites that are running

964
00:58:56,460 --> 00:59:00,270
600 podcasts on a single word.
Imagine I don't know what kind

965
00:59:00,270 --> 00:59:02,640
of a beast of a server that's
running. I didn't know that

966
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,300
sounds pretty cool. It is cool.
And they're using taxonomy. So

967
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:12,660
hey, Mike, as customer support,
can I change your title? Yeah.

968
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:14,460
How about

969
00:59:15,630 --> 00:59:21,570
you got a VP you get a VP title.
SPP instead of Customer Support

970
00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:25,020
Manager. How about customer
success affiliate?

971
00:59:26,310 --> 00:59:32,460
Oh, let's just not do the Ninja
and Sherpa crap and you know,

972
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:35,370
customer success affiliate.

973
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,900
So Adam, we got sidetracked
earlier. Did you want to know

974
00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:42,450
the origin story of blueberry?
How they got the name? Of

975
00:59:42,450 --> 00:59:47,820
course, of course. So So Rob was
had this basically had a phrase.

976
00:59:47,850 --> 00:59:51,870
So Rob always knew organic
media. So when podcasts or news

977
00:59:51,870 --> 00:59:55,770
a website failed, we were
sitting in a resort in Chicago

978
00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:01,920
in February. Yes, that's a great
retreat. Yeah, great retreat

979
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,150
sitting around trying to decide
what this new site was going to

980
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:09,330
be called. And I don't know how
he got on it. It was that during

981
01:00:09,330 --> 01:00:12,600
the.com era when no one was
using vowels and pressure,

982
01:00:13,170 --> 01:00:16,080
somehow transferred to blueberry
and that's how, because you

983
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,020
remember, right in those early
days, you couldn't use the word

984
01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:21,780
podcast without worried about
getting sued. We would call

985
01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:24,900
ourselves a podcast hosting
company. No one.

986
01:00:25,170 --> 01:00:27,360
No one ever no one ever got sued
over did they

987
01:00:27,510 --> 01:00:30,120
know they did it? Do you know,
but there are some apps that

988
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,340
have gotten some heat. So that's
where we were worried about

989
01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:36,270
using podcasts in the name. It's
all dumb now, but that was what

990
01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:36,900
was going on.

991
01:00:37,860 --> 01:00:41,490
And didn't we did we have a we
have raspberry with Nui

992
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,070
Oh yeah, we had all plans from
Africa. We still have those

993
01:00:44,070 --> 01:00:47,670
domains raspberry. We're gonna
put like, you know, super

994
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:50,130
celebrities like add them on and
different people like that. It

995
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:51,420
was all kinds of crazy ideas.

996
01:00:52,650 --> 01:00:57,420
Yeah, I remember the day when
when we were doing Dave liner's

997
01:00:57,450 --> 01:01:02,100
world outline. I remember, I
fired up the site to clone that

998
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:07,590
over and it was w RLD. Outline,
he just he just dropped the

999
01:01:07,590 --> 01:01:10,590
vowel and your, your web your
web 2.0

1000
01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:13,260
That's right, and put a.io after
it and you're really grueling.

1001
01:01:13,470 --> 01:01:15,750
Oh, yeah. Yeah, then you get VC
money.

1002
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,870
You guys do some advertising
services as well.

1003
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,480
It's not a primary part of our
business. But we do. Deals come

1004
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,170
in, you know, we get emails all
the time and RFPs respond to

1005
01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:37,230
them and but tell you, Adam,
that 90% of podcasters today

1006
01:01:37,230 --> 01:01:39,870
store and get any advertising.
Is it 00 I

1007
01:01:40,290 --> 01:01:42,930
wouldn't expect you to I
wouldn't. It's like the promise

1008
01:01:42,930 --> 01:01:44,430
of blogs. It's the same thing.

1009
01:01:44,670 --> 01:01:47,940
Chelsea and Chelsea that verge
article about the about anchor

1010
01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:51,150
like almost all of their
podcasters are getting a house

1011
01:01:51,150 --> 01:01:52,110
add money.

1012
01:01:52,380 --> 01:01:56,070
A grand eight grand for house
ads. That's pretty interesting.

1013
01:01:56,340 --> 01:01:57,930
They're gonna stop that I heard

1014
01:01:58,140 --> 01:02:01,470
well, they'll have to eventually
the bleeding dried. It's a weird

1015
01:02:01,470 --> 01:02:02,490
circular motion.

1016
01:02:03,090 --> 01:02:05,700
My Spotify is unlimited cash.
Don't you know? Yeah.

1017
01:02:07,980 --> 01:02:09,720
Think the limit is is coming up.

1018
01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:11,400
Who's got the funky Bell?

1019
01:02:12,210 --> 01:02:13,710
That's me. Sorry. No, it's

1020
01:02:13,710 --> 01:02:16,590
okay. I just want I couldn't
identify and it's like, Is it

1021
01:02:16,590 --> 01:02:17,790
this one? No, it's not.

1022
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:21,990
You know, you would podcast

1023
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:27,360
is when you hear bells ringing.
So I get a tip for you. Maybe

1024
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,790
more from Mike than for Todd.
And we're for both of you.

1025
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:36,000
Because I have a customer for
you. Or a lot of customers like

1026
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,560
this person I think will be
coming. So Dana Brunetti. Never

1027
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:46,950
heard of this name? DANA
Brunetti is a Hollywood guy who

1028
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:50,850
is anti Hollywood. And we got to
know him through the no agenda

1029
01:02:50,850 --> 01:02:55,080
show is he's a executive
producer, and kind of found that

1030
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,530
because he put that credit on
his IMDB page. And if you look

1031
01:02:58,530 --> 01:03:02,910
at Dana Brunetti his IMDB page,
he's a producer of social

1032
01:03:02,910 --> 01:03:09,930
network of Captain Phillips, of
House of Cards 50 shades of grey

1033
01:03:09,930 --> 01:03:15,150
and 50 shades of grey and 50,000
shades of some more gray. So he

1034
01:03:15,210 --> 01:03:19,560
he's had a lot of success. And
he called me the other day. And

1035
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,520
he said, Adam, I have an idea
for podcasting. 2.0 and and I

1036
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:28,500
want to know, is it possible
today to use the chapters with

1037
01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:32,550
the images rotating like you've
shown us in with no agenda and

1038
01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:37,140
podcasting 2.0 and mo facts and
those shows? I said, Yeah, it's

1039
01:03:37,140 --> 01:03:41,520
okay, because we have a concept.
And we think we'll be, you know,

1040
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,990
producing several of these. And
they, they kind of want to

1041
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:50,610
become a production house for
this type of mixed media

1042
01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:55,680
content. So I'm telling you
this, because if you were to

1043
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,070
focus on anything based upon
customer demand, at least you

1044
01:03:59,070 --> 01:04:02,580
can be on the lookout for that
if and when it cranks up.

1045
01:04:03,660 --> 01:04:08,910
You know, that chapters feature
has me very interested. But I

1046
01:04:08,910 --> 01:04:11,970
look at this also as a
podcaster. I don't have time to

1047
01:04:11,970 --> 01:04:16,680
do chapters. So how many? How
many podcasters? I'm playing

1048
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,020
devil's advocate a little bit
here. How many podcasters have

1049
01:04:19,020 --> 01:04:20,730
time to put chapters in the
show?

1050
01:04:21,450 --> 01:04:29,070
Well, that is depends on the
system. So for for a Hollywood

1051
01:04:29,070 --> 01:04:32,580
guy who's producing stuff
specifically, he'll take as long

1052
01:04:32,580 --> 01:04:37,620
as he needs because that's what
he's doing. I personally do not

1053
01:04:37,620 --> 01:04:40,770
have time, enter the beautiful
world of hyper catchers,

1054
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,910
community chapters. And I think
what this is the model as far as

1055
01:04:44,910 --> 01:04:49,350
I'm concerned, where you can
have the community creating

1056
01:04:49,350 --> 01:04:53,490
chapter marks, all you have to
do is go in, take a look and

1057
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,370
approve, you know, the basic,
basic moderation that that's

1058
01:04:56,370 --> 01:05:00,420
working today. And and in this
case, I was also Able to

1059
01:05:00,420 --> 01:05:04,560
delegate that to Dred Scott,
hello drab, who is doing the

1060
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:09,270
chapters for this show as well?
So that's kind of the beauty of

1061
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:14,550
podcasting is there's always
somebody look at, you know, look

1062
01:05:14,550 --> 01:05:19,080
at SoundCloud. You know, it's
it's rarely the creator itself

1063
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,600
who's putting shit on the
timeline. It's the audience. So

1064
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:26,460
I think that's that's where this
feature is headed. So then what

1065
01:05:26,460 --> 01:05:28,950
I'm saying to you is I, maybe
not maybe there's not a single

1066
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:32,430
podcaster. But I do know one and
one, one who has pretty big

1067
01:05:32,430 --> 01:05:34,680
influence. So just be on the
lookout if more people start

1068
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:35,370
looking for it.

1069
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:40,110
So Adam does that community
source chapters is real cool.

1070
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:45,330
You're doing it? Does your feed
then dynamically update? Yeah,

1071
01:05:45,330 --> 01:05:45,990
or how,

1072
01:05:46,050 --> 01:05:50,130
ooh, hold on a second. Let's do
it. Again, just

1073
01:05:50,130 --> 01:05:51,780
make sure you understand how it
works.

1074
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:54,450
namespace.

1075
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,010
Come over here to snuggle up.
Let me show you how we do this

1076
01:05:59,010 --> 01:06:04,890
here. It's, it's in the in the
namespace, the chapters file

1077
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:09,300
calls for a URL to a JSON file.
And so that JSON file can update

1078
01:06:09,300 --> 01:06:12,570
whenever it's ready to update
flows right through the minute

1079
01:06:12,570 --> 01:06:16,440
someone loads the podcast, it is
unbelievably beautiful to do

1080
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,590
that. After the fact it is so
cool. Play

1081
01:06:19,620 --> 01:06:22,350
that play that song again, that
is a sexy name.

1082
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:25,080
Integrate

1083
01:06:27,690 --> 01:06:31,860
namespace Come on Todd, stick it
in the namespace.

1084
01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:34,560
Now that's that's good that that
can be done that way. Because

1085
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,530
that's the only way that people
have time. I could have a

1086
01:06:37,620 --> 01:06:41,010
producer come in later. And
spend an hour on that instead of

1087
01:06:41,010 --> 01:06:42,600
having to do it when I was
producing.

1088
01:06:42,930 --> 01:06:45,390
Right. A lot of people there's a
lot of podcasters that do it and

1089
01:06:45,390 --> 01:06:49,200
they bake it into the mp3, you
know, in the in the hammock not

1090
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,080
done. Yeah. And it's like,
there's the only ones that those

1091
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,970
I don't know how big a
percentage that is, I could I

1092
01:06:53,970 --> 01:06:57,330
could name probably five off top
my head that I know, they're

1093
01:06:57,630 --> 01:07:00,990
bigger podcasts. And they're
also the guys that don't seem to

1094
01:07:00,990 --> 01:07:05,370
mind doing a lot of stuff in
post. And, you know, but then

1095
01:07:05,370 --> 01:07:08,280
you get to your other, you know,
most people are not gonna have

1096
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,170
time to sit there and go through
Oh, but here's the

1097
01:07:10,170 --> 01:07:12,930
here's the beauty Dave, and this
is what the flow is so

1098
01:07:12,930 --> 01:07:16,260
phenomenal with hyper catcher,
because drab was listening to

1099
01:07:16,260 --> 01:07:19,110
the show anyway. So we just
listened to the show. And he

1100
01:07:19,110 --> 01:07:21,780
says, Oh, that's cute. And he
just taps right on the app, he's

1101
01:07:21,780 --> 01:07:25,560
using click. And then he can
write a little note or a

1102
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,370
message, whatever it is title,
the full title URL, and then he

1103
01:07:29,370 --> 01:07:32,820
goes into the back end. And then
he'll either expand on them add

1104
01:07:32,820 --> 01:07:36,270
an image or whatever. But it's
in real time while anyone's

1105
01:07:36,270 --> 01:07:42,840
listening they can create a
chapter and and it's fun because

1106
01:07:43,710 --> 01:07:47,850
phone boy who does the no agenda
quotes, he started using hyper

1107
01:07:47,850 --> 01:07:51,360
catcher to add things that he
likes which go into his no

1108
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,780
agenda, quotes, database, but
now they're also in the chapter

1109
01:07:54,780 --> 01:07:58,920
timeline. So it becomes a really
wealthy experience.

1110
01:07:59,249 --> 01:08:01,619
Yeah, you can see this it wants
this show gets released, you'll

1111
01:08:01,619 --> 01:08:05,009
see like slowly over the period
of, you know, a day or two, the

1112
01:08:05,009 --> 01:08:06,239
chapters will just get added.

1113
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:11,940
And in pod friend in the
episode, and this is Oh, my God.

1114
01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:17,070
Thank you, Martin. You go to the
episode, and right there in the

1115
01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:21,660
transcript, which is another one
of my favorite tags. You can

1116
01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:25,680
search. So when you say Hey,
what did you say like I say on

1117
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,700
Thursday, you go to the episode,
you type in the search, boom, it

1118
01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:33,390
pulls out the transcript, which
also clearly avidly

1119
01:08:34,199 --> 01:08:40,229
advocate for podcast listeners.
You know, most didn't, I'm an

1120
01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:43,739
avid listener, but most of the
time I bring it up on my phone,

1121
01:08:43,739 --> 01:08:46,799
I hit play, I stick the thing in
my pocket, I'm not looking at my

1122
01:08:46,799 --> 01:08:49,649
device while I'm playing. So of
course not see any of that

1123
01:08:49,649 --> 01:08:50,369
stuff. Of course, not

1124
01:08:50,370 --> 01:08:53,310
you that you've not been trained
for this at all, there was no

1125
01:08:53,310 --> 01:08:54,810
reason to not tell

1126
01:08:54,809 --> 01:08:58,709
you when I'll tell you, when I
pull it up, when I pull the my

1127
01:08:58,709 --> 01:09:02,699
phone out and look at it. I can
always tell you know, the once

1128
01:09:02,729 --> 01:09:05,609
as a podcaster. And once you get
used to the fact that you're

1129
01:09:05,609 --> 01:09:08,849
gonna have that stuff in there,
you trigger your audience.

1130
01:09:08,849 --> 01:09:12,689
Exactly. And it's like you
because I know, like if we if

1131
01:09:12,689 --> 01:09:17,099
something's funny gets said on
the show, I know that I can

1132
01:09:17,099 --> 01:09:20,519
probably pull out the phone. And
there may be some you know,

1133
01:09:20,549 --> 01:09:22,979
something about it on the chat
because the chapter can contain

1134
01:09:22,979 --> 01:09:25,739
either text or a URL to a site,
you know, we need to

1135
01:09:26,730 --> 01:09:28,650
we need to be able to trigger
haptic

1136
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:30,060
like there.

1137
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:36,300
But that's exactly it. I have no
agenda. When we're reviewing the

1138
01:09:36,300 --> 01:09:39,180
art. We'll talk about the art
that didn't make it into the

1139
01:09:39,180 --> 01:09:43,800
album art competition. And
that's rotating as we speak. So

1140
01:09:43,830 --> 01:09:49,080
the number one place people will
see this. I guess with no with

1141
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:54,420
hype when there's integration is
CarPlay and Android Auto or

1142
01:09:54,420 --> 01:09:57,210
whatever it's called. Because
you'll just you'll see it's flip

1143
01:09:57,300 --> 01:09:58,560
switch right on the screen.

1144
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,710
You'll be to almost this this is
just a way in my mind sin here

1145
01:10:04,710 --> 01:10:10,320
spending honestly. This is way
to build engagement. It's a way

1146
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,190
to build your sir. Yeah, people
are gonna race to be the one to

1147
01:10:14,190 --> 01:10:18,000
submit something to get that
call out on the show even gamify

1148
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,030
this and say okay, the first
five people that mentioned this,

1149
01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:24,810
you know gets a gift card or
something more drips got

1150
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:28,380
drip Scott does such a good job
with our chapters that we put

1151
01:10:28,380 --> 01:10:32,490
him into the payment split, he
now gets 5% every episode.

1152
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:36,480
It's also hilarious. He's adding
a third dimension. You know,

1153
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:40,380
when when, the other day when we
were talking about donations

1154
01:10:40,380 --> 01:10:43,050
being low, he put the sad puppy
in, you know, it's like, oh,

1155
01:10:43,050 --> 01:10:46,830
man, he's just he added a punch
line. Yeah, that's really

1156
01:10:46,830 --> 01:10:50,430
powerful. And, and if there's
one thing I've heard over and

1157
01:10:50,430 --> 01:10:55,560
over again, we've got to get
community, either comments or

1158
01:10:55,560 --> 01:11:01,080
chat or something where you can
talk about the show cross app.

1159
01:11:01,650 --> 01:11:05,370
And I know it's coming. I know
where it's coming from. But you

1160
01:11:05,370 --> 01:11:09,660
know, this is this is where
podcasting is behind. That is

1161
01:11:09,660 --> 01:11:12,000
you know, the YouTube community
and then we have clubhouse

1162
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,880
which, by the way, I would not
advise anybody don't build your

1163
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,500
career on clubhouse. That's not
gonna last clubhouse is gonna

1164
01:11:19,500 --> 01:11:21,510
get deep platformed

1165
01:11:23,340 --> 01:11:29,520
we have a running pool to see
when they disappear. Can I get

1166
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:30,180
in on that?

1167
01:11:31,980 --> 01:11:34,620
Not a blueberry internal pool.
Just wait, no, no, no.

1168
01:11:35,550 --> 01:11:36,090
Blueberry.

1169
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,450
I mean, like it to me. And I had
a conversation with Sam Santhi

1170
01:11:42,450 --> 01:11:45,060
about this because he was
talking about using club

1171
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,400
clubhouse. And I was like, I
just don't think it's gonna

1172
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,360
survive beyond the exclusivity
period. I mean, once if it's

1173
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,330
only it's only people only want
it right now. But it's like Ted

1174
01:11:54,330 --> 01:11:58,110
Talks. You know, it's it's
exclusive. And it feels like

1175
01:11:58,110 --> 01:12:00,810
you're in, you know, you like
you're getting access to the to

1176
01:12:00,810 --> 01:12:03,330
the private people. That goes

1177
01:12:05,310 --> 01:12:08,310
cancelable stuff going on there.
Once you can speak freely,

1178
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:10,290
somewhere it ends

1179
01:12:11,130 --> 01:12:15,360
instead of 500 rooms when
there's 10,000 or 100,000. Then

1180
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:16,680
they've got another issue as
well.

1181
01:12:16,949 --> 01:12:19,109
Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, that's not
cheap.

1182
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:21,720
Well, there's that. Yeah,
there's that? Yeah.

1183
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:27,329
So

1184
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:33,030
how much to buy? You guys? I
know you're thinking about it.

1185
01:12:33,030 --> 01:12:35,220
So let's set a price. We're
saving up.

1186
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:35,850
You're saving.

1187
01:12:35,909 --> 01:12:36,689
You're saving up?

1188
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,030
Well, we have a couple options
at this point. So

1189
01:12:39,330 --> 01:12:43,560
you come to me with a decent
seven figure number we can we

1190
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:44,850
can have a great discussion.

1191
01:12:46,350 --> 01:12:48,870
Wouldn't you want to cash

1192
01:12:49,890 --> 01:12:50,490
figures you've

1193
01:12:50,489 --> 01:12:52,769
been doing this for so long?
Wouldn't you want to cash out at

1194
01:12:52,769 --> 01:12:55,529
some point I'm and by the way, I
mean that very sincerely. I

1195
01:12:55,529 --> 01:12:57,209
don't give a shit who you sell.
Sure. I'm

1196
01:12:57,210 --> 01:13:02,130
just at any company you build is
built to be acquired. So

1197
01:13:02,220 --> 01:13:03,330
Oh, that's interesting.

1198
01:13:03,630 --> 01:13:06,840
Yeah, any company build is built
to be acquired. And you know, we

1199
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,380
ever presented an offer. You
know, one thing, I'll be honest

1200
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:13,590
with you, though, I'm a little
bit of a purist. We're gonna

1201
01:13:13,590 --> 01:13:17,130
make sure that if we ever do
sell, it's going to be someone

1202
01:13:17,130 --> 01:13:18,720
that takes care of the
independent podcaster.

1203
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:23,010
community, we don't want to, we
really have no independent

1204
01:13:23,010 --> 01:13:26,610
podcaster. So this is what the
company was built on. So I've

1205
01:13:26,610 --> 01:13:30,750
got a real affinity towards that
group. And I don't ever want

1206
01:13:30,750 --> 01:13:31,980
them to leave them hanging.

1207
01:13:34,230 --> 01:13:34,980
Fair enough.

1208
01:13:35,670 --> 01:13:39,510
Yeah, I can see, I think that's
something that you may be unique

1209
01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:44,520
to the podcast. Hosting industry
is, there's, of course, not all

1210
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:47,400
of them. But the ones that have
been around for a long time seem

1211
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:53,040
to, like blueberry, seem to seem
to have a more purist idea. It's

1212
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:56,760
like, Well, I mean, because I
think most of them, like you

1213
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,820
guys are, were podcasters to
begin with. So it's like, well,

1214
01:13:59,820 --> 01:14:02,910
I mean, we don't want to screw
over, you know, the next

1215
01:14:03,060 --> 01:14:04,590
generation so to speak.

1216
01:14:06,690 --> 01:14:09,240
We're on the show, because we
believe in open podcasting.

1217
01:14:09,690 --> 01:14:10,050
Yeah.

1218
01:14:11,159 --> 01:14:14,309
Well, it is a vow of poverty.
And it is a struggle, and I

1219
01:14:14,309 --> 01:14:17,369
appreciate that because I know
exactly what it takes. No, I do.

1220
01:14:17,429 --> 01:14:20,999
I mean, yeah, building the value
for value model. You know, I eat

1221
01:14:20,999 --> 01:14:26,339
my airplane. And it takes a
while to to build these things.

1222
01:14:27,150 --> 01:14:30,390
But I think I think that's often
missing. Adam, you put in your

1223
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:32,940
time you put in your legs you
put in the building audience you

1224
01:14:32,940 --> 01:14:36,030
play hard work. Yeah. Yeah. You
know, I get people call me three

1225
01:14:36,030 --> 01:14:38,010
episodes in how come I can't
make money? Yeah,

1226
01:14:38,250 --> 01:14:41,940
yeah. All the time and customer
support, though. They'll call me

1227
01:14:41,940 --> 01:14:44,790
and say, Hey, I just put on my
third episode. Where's the end

1228
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:46,530
deals? Right?

1229
01:14:47,069 --> 01:14:50,519
Well, I think this we're
podcasting. 2.0 can like the net

1230
01:14:50,519 --> 01:14:54,059
with the namespace and
everything you can when you have

1231
01:14:54,089 --> 01:14:58,379
new features Finally, and that's
that's the thing you can you

1232
01:14:58,409 --> 01:15:02,519
could take a podcast and say,
Okay, well, this podcast is

1233
01:15:02,879 --> 01:15:06,959
implementing chapter art or
something like that. And it

1234
01:15:06,959 --> 01:15:10,079
could be a new experience, and
it could drive a little bit more

1235
01:15:10,079 --> 01:15:13,439
of a little bit more engagement.
And this is something that has

1236
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:17,339
not existed in podcast space for
a long time. And,

1237
01:15:17,489 --> 01:15:24,389
and here's a benefit that you
might like transcript tag, I

1238
01:15:24,389 --> 01:15:29,699
think I can, I think I can sell
this to you to implement this.

1239
01:15:30,419 --> 01:15:33,269
Oh, we're already sold on the
transcript tag. Okay, because

1240
01:15:33,299 --> 01:15:38,249
1888 compliance is a huge deal
and the lawsuits are coming. So

1241
01:15:38,249 --> 01:15:43,379
the quicker you know, then
there's many, many informative

1242
01:15:43,379 --> 01:15:47,849
podcasts that just have to be
ADA compliant. And that means

1243
01:15:47,849 --> 01:15:52,589
you have to have subtitles or
transcript or something

1244
01:15:52,589 --> 01:15:55,709
available for certain types of
information.

1245
01:15:56,310 --> 01:16:00,000
I just realized I gave you the
wrong number eight figures, not

1246
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,450
seven. Okay. I got

1247
01:16:03,449 --> 01:16:06,059
excited, I was already
transferring Bitcoin to Dave.

1248
01:16:06,059 --> 01:16:06,419
I'm like,

1249
01:16:08,250 --> 01:16:09,300
a couple mil. I

1250
01:16:09,299 --> 01:16:12,599
was just like, That's it. That's
it. Undergraduate math for you.

1251
01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:14,819
Hey, Dave, hey, Dave,

1252
01:16:14,819 --> 01:16:16,409
these guys are dumb. Let's go
by.

1253
01:16:20,489 --> 01:16:21,569
I'm looking in my wallet.

1254
01:16:23,220 --> 01:16:25,320
I'm like, man, I just I just got
fired.

1255
01:16:27,630 --> 01:16:31,830
So, Mike, how many? How many
customers do you need to hear

1256
01:16:31,830 --> 01:16:37,140
from before you kick something
over to the dev team for a quote

1257
01:16:37,140 --> 01:16:42,030
or for an estimate? I mean, is
that 100 people? Is it 50? Is it

1258
01:16:42,060 --> 01:16:43,050
1000?

1259
01:16:43,530 --> 01:16:47,730
It could be two or three and I
believe in it fully. So I, you

1260
01:16:47,730 --> 01:16:51,120
know, I've been pushing, not
pushing. But you know, I

1261
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:56,310
realized we have to have, you
know, we have to have a need for

1262
01:16:56,310 --> 01:17:01,020
it. As far as you know, we can't
just spend a lot of time doing

1263
01:17:01,020 --> 01:17:04,260
this for the sake of doing it, I
guess is what I'm getting at is

1264
01:17:04,260 --> 01:17:09,450
what? I don't know. But no,
we're fully You know, I'm fully

1265
01:17:09,450 --> 01:17:13,710
on board and, and you know, the
more I hear from the the higher

1266
01:17:13,710 --> 01:17:15,240
up in the stack it can get and

1267
01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:19,140
that's Mike and Mike at
blueberry calm everybody. Go

1268
01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:23,310
ahead and let Mike know what you
want. T is your customer, your

1269
01:17:24,330 --> 01:17:27,270
he is your customer success
affiliate.

1270
01:17:28,230 --> 01:17:31,260
And we have had those dreaded
meetings, planning meetings to

1271
01:17:31,260 --> 01:17:33,180
see where this fit in the dev
schedule. And I

1272
01:17:33,180 --> 01:17:38,460
really I really appreciate that
I'm just pushing by No, but I I

1273
01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:42,990
really do appreciate it. Now. I
know. I mean, Dave and I are

1274
01:17:42,990 --> 01:17:46,260
still friends after 10 years. So
I figured out how how when to

1275
01:17:46,260 --> 01:17:47,400
push and when not to

1276
01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:52,439
wouldn't do the private feeds.
Are y'all in that game? yet?

1277
01:17:52,620 --> 01:17:54,930
Me are? You just answered that
this year?

1278
01:17:55,260 --> 01:17:57,570
Okay, so I've got a question
revolving that because this came

1279
01:17:57,570 --> 01:17:59,670
this came on the mastodon this

1280
01:17:59,670 --> 01:18:00,960
Hold on, hold on a second. Here

1281
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,520
we go. Now, it's

1282
01:18:04,440 --> 01:18:09,690
three times in one in one night.
Oh, my God. Did you insatiable?

1283
01:18:09,750 --> 01:18:15,690
It's good. Because we're talking
about private, private. On the

1284
01:18:15,690 --> 01:18:22,170
podcast, namespace if you had
just a simple tag that you said

1285
01:18:22,170 --> 01:18:27,480
private yes, no, just like,
because here's the challenge

1286
01:18:27,480 --> 01:18:34,290
that I've had this this week is
for an experiment, I turned on a

1287
01:18:34,290 --> 01:18:37,500
script I've been working on for
a while. It takes all the

1288
01:18:37,530 --> 01:18:42,570
anytime some the the endpoint
that says podcast by Feed URL,

1289
01:18:43,230 --> 01:18:47,640
if that misses. And it says
this, this URL doesn't exist in

1290
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:52,290
the database. I would say gather
go through there and gather all

1291
01:18:52,290 --> 01:18:56,820
those misses from the logs, and
then put them through, you know,

1292
01:18:56,820 --> 01:19:00,810
a bunch of checking and sanity
and all that jazz and then try

1293
01:19:00,810 --> 01:19:05,850
to find stuff we're missing by
scraping out of the logs, things

1294
01:19:05,850 --> 01:19:10,590
that people wanted to hit and
mark there. And immediately

1295
01:19:10,590 --> 01:19:12,420
you're getting a bunch of
private stuff, a bunch of

1296
01:19:12,420 --> 01:19:16,530
private fields that have bait
HTTP basic authentication, on

1297
01:19:16,530 --> 01:19:20,340
the beginning of the URL, a
strategic hurry membership only

1298
01:19:20,340 --> 01:19:23,220
feeds all this kind of jazz
started, you know, started

1299
01:19:23,220 --> 01:19:27,750
coming up in the list that was
that I was testing. And so then

1300
01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:33,570
I started to get put in all the
all the exclusionary retro Rena

1301
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:37,440
regular expression, the garbage
to try to kick all that stuff

1302
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:42,030
out. And if you just had a
simple tag that said, Is this a

1303
01:19:42,030 --> 01:19:45,990
private member only fate or is
it not? Then I would have to get

1304
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:46,530
through all that

1305
01:19:47,940 --> 01:19:49,950
is similar to the lock tag, I
guess.

1306
01:19:49,980 --> 01:19:55,470
Yeah. And I think that's good
for Well, here's, here's the

1307
01:19:55,470 --> 01:19:59,790
other token of that you've got
on private podcast speeds, there

1308
01:19:59,790 --> 01:20:03,150
can be different levels of
security, maybe only secure the

1309
01:20:03,150 --> 01:20:07,680
media, that's really the lowest
level where the Feed URL is

1310
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,760
still public, and it can still
be pulled into a directory, then

1311
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,270
you go to that next level where
the both the feed and the RSS

1312
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:18,840
feed are authenticated. And then
really at the highest level of

1313
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,540
security and private podcasting,
it's really no longer a podcast,

1314
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:28,350
it's just a stream. But yeah, I
think I could go for that,

1315
01:20:28,350 --> 01:20:31,740
especially having a directory as
well where I could say, and we

1316
01:20:31,740 --> 01:20:34,470
just don't index that we leave
that alone. But on the opposite

1317
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:38,730
token, then that gives someone
that maybe is up to sinister,

1318
01:20:38,820 --> 01:20:42,330
you know, then they go after
that feed, what is in here?

1319
01:20:42,330 --> 01:20:46,830
What? Let's try to hack this, so
we can, you know, consume what,

1320
01:20:47,250 --> 01:20:51,990
what's being hidden? I don't
know, it's two sides of the coin

1321
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:53,670
there, that would be a good one
to ask Angelo.

1322
01:20:54,210 --> 01:20:56,490
Because anytime anytime you have
an index, whether it's an

1323
01:20:56,490 --> 01:20:59,040
opening, you know, whether it's
an Open Directory, or whether

1324
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:03,540
it's, you know, something
private, like, the the, the

1325
01:21:03,540 --> 01:21:06,600
infrastructure that backs
podcast addict, or overcast or

1326
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,940
something like that, you're just
going to end up with a lot of

1327
01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:15,120
stuff in there. And what you see
is people requesting, requesting

1328
01:21:15,180 --> 01:21:22,020
feeds, using those private,
those private URLs, and you see

1329
01:21:22,110 --> 01:21:25,110
a username and a password
separated by a colon before the

1330
01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:27,840
app, you know, before the
ampersand, there's a schema for

1331
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,800
that symbol. And you see those
and it's like, oh, my God, I

1332
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,960
gotta purge this out of the
logs. I mean, these are people's

1333
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,200
passwords. I don't even want
this in my, I want this in here,

1334
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:37,530
right.

1335
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,790
But this is the problem with
some of these private podcasting

1336
01:21:41,790 --> 01:21:45,510
solutions have been put up, I've
always told customers, you need

1337
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:48,300
to look closely how that's
implemented. Because sometimes

1338
01:21:48,300 --> 01:21:52,470
security is implied it is an
explicit and you're just

1339
01:21:52,650 --> 01:21:56,430
highlighting and don't say
anything. That's an implied

1340
01:21:56,430 --> 01:22:00,030
security because someone is
embedding that user and password

1341
01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:01,650
in that call to that media.

1342
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:05,670
So I don't think I would ever
use a service that if you're

1343
01:22:05,670 --> 01:22:09,240
going to do a membership only
service and you get back like

1344
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:12,120
something that has an auth token
in the URL. Okay, that's fine,

1345
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,910
but if you're gonna have to put
in a username and password that

1346
01:22:14,910 --> 01:22:18,510
is, that's highly sketchy. I
don't think that that's

1347
01:22:18,690 --> 01:22:22,620
so sound sounds like By the way,
I am so turned on right now.

1348
01:22:25,980 --> 01:22:27,270
That sounds like a winner

1349
01:22:29,279 --> 01:22:32,069
Yeah, I was gonna put it I
wanted to throw it by you guys

1350
01:22:32,069 --> 01:22:34,529
first before I throw it before
it actually made it they known

1351
01:22:34,529 --> 01:22:36,569
an actual proposal and throw it
in the pool.

1352
01:22:36,810 --> 01:22:39,360
Yeah, I think I'm gonna throw
that one over to Angela too cuz

1353
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,180
he always is the you know, he's
the one that come up Matt fact

1354
01:22:42,180 --> 01:22:44,460
he's got some feedback for you
guys on the lock tag. He was

1355
01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:48,720
talking to me about it last
Friday hit us. Tell us something

1356
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,600
about that. It's dedication
piece. It's about the email

1357
01:22:51,630 --> 01:22:55,080
authenticating and looking at it
from a directory and looking at

1358
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:58,230
it from a private podcaster
standpoint where the person's on

1359
01:22:58,230 --> 01:23:01,620
their own comm anyway, he can
explain it. He's, he's the one

1360
01:23:01,620 --> 01:23:03,210
that stops here this scenario.
So

1361
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:05,910
yeah, cool. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, he's been he's been super

1362
01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:06,360
valuable.

1363
01:23:06,630 --> 01:23:09,660
Maybe a moment here to thank a
few people who've supported

1364
01:23:09,660 --> 01:23:15,840
podcasts index, podcasting 2.0
and have actually sent us some

1365
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,240
treasure. All we want is your
time your treasure or your

1366
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:20,760
talent. That's the value for
value model. This is what the

1367
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:25,680
entire the servers, everything
runs on it. And the way to do

1368
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:29,310
that is again, you can sign up
at podcasts. index.org become a

1369
01:23:29,310 --> 01:23:32,640
developer if you're developer
join podcast index dot social,

1370
01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:37,260
joining the conversation, and we
love the treasure and Dave who

1371
01:23:37,290 --> 01:23:38,430
can we thank today

1372
01:23:40,110 --> 01:23:44,340
this is our you can listen to
how much into our fund our buy

1373
01:23:44,340 --> 01:23:45,630
blueberry fund. Yes.

1374
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,560
Send more money. We need more to
buy blueberry.

1375
01:23:50,670 --> 01:23:55,680
See, Greg? Greg Carl would from
higher higher side chats he's

1376
01:23:55,680 --> 01:24:00,450
helping us by blueberry. See, he
sent us $500

1377
01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:02,580
Whoa, now you

1378
01:24:02,580 --> 01:24:05,520
know he mentioned this to me
because he'd been asking for a

1379
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:10,260
long time to interview me. It
actually came through crossover

1380
01:24:10,260 --> 01:24:13,440
of our media tribes you know
people who listen to him also

1381
01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:17,130
listen to no agenda and and this
was very focused on podcasting

1382
01:24:17,130 --> 01:24:19,590
to buy likes, I'll put it in the
show notes. very focused on

1383
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:25,350
podcasting. 2.0 great guy and he
as you can see, he's all on

1384
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:28,050
board. Thank you so much, man
that really appreciate that

1385
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:28,770
really do.

1386
01:24:29,100 --> 01:24:31,530
Yeah, he had a message that
said, thanks to both of you.

1387
01:24:31,530 --> 01:24:34,710
You're doing the Lord's work.
Great. Carl would have said

1388
01:24:34,710 --> 01:24:39,510
check your mic and go ahead and
get my get my office ready.

1389
01:24:42,569 --> 01:24:43,499
That's right, baby.

1390
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:46,110
Yeah, I'll build another 10 foot
shed here in Traverse

1391
01:24:46,110 --> 01:24:48,360
City. And close my

1392
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:56,520
eyes. Let's see. Make sure this
is not anonymous. No. Okay. This

1393
01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:02,130
is from sir Jeffrey. Sir
Jeffries, Ellen. Love the board

1394
01:25:02,130 --> 01:25:05,100
May he gave us $50. And he said
love the board meetings and

1395
01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:08,610
found a lot of inspiration to
contribute over on the mastodon

1396
01:25:08,610 --> 01:25:12,090
based on your conversations.
Hope this helps pay for someone

1397
01:25:12,090 --> 01:25:15,210
to go juggle, juggle the wire
and loosen up the club bits.

1398
01:25:17,130 --> 01:25:21,480
He's Muppet. 1856 on podcast
index dot social. Nice.

1399
01:25:21,480 --> 01:25:22,230
Yeah. All right, we'll

1400
01:25:22,230 --> 01:25:29,280
go. We'll go jiggle the handle.
Let's see what we got. Ah

1401
01:25:30,660 --> 01:25:39,810
1234 $12.34 from Mark Taylor. No
note from Mark. Thank you, Mark.

1402
01:25:41,100 --> 01:25:49,500
We got $20 from Scott Gerard.
Again, no note. Thank you,

1403
01:25:49,500 --> 01:25:49,890
Scott.

1404
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:52,230
This is good. Good week.

1405
01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:59,280
Yeah, it is good week. See this?
Oh, we got an automatic. So I

1406
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:07,560
got an idea for for peerage. If,
if we need to, we need a pod, we

1407
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:13,770
need a GitHub repository. And we
just put people into the GitHub

1408
01:26:13,770 --> 01:26:19,020
repo to help them beef up their,
their GitHub profile. Like, you

1409
01:26:19,020 --> 01:26:21,270
know, cuz that's the way like
developers, right?

1410
01:26:22,050 --> 01:26:25,290
Like LinkedIn pay for your
profile. I'm sure I'm sure we're

1411
01:26:25,290 --> 01:26:28,320
breaking some terms of service
with GitHub somewhere. But great

1412
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:29,010
idea. Let's

1413
01:26:29,010 --> 01:26:29,490
do it.

1414
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:31,530
Last,

1415
01:26:31,650 --> 01:26:34,200
we'll get him to do a pull
request. And we'll just say end

1416
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:36,300
quote. You know, it merged their
pull request and they get

1417
01:26:36,300 --> 01:26:37,410
instant cred,

1418
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:37,950
guys.

1419
01:26:37,979 --> 01:26:38,579
Let's do it.

1420
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:39,300
Let's do it.

1421
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:44,850
So the he's got a new
subscription for $8 a month cost

1422
01:26:44,850 --> 01:26:45,480
subscriptions are

1423
01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:47,070
great. We really appreciate
those.

1424
01:26:47,069 --> 01:26:55,859
Those helped Dwayne Goldie, the
second. And last one, yes or

1425
01:26:55,859 --> 01:27:03,359
less. Lauren ball $24.20. He
says Happy Friday, gentlemen,

1426
01:27:03,599 --> 01:27:05,789
this month, the short letter
enjoy the weekend.

1427
01:27:07,980 --> 01:27:08,880
Thank you. It's great.

1428
01:27:09,090 --> 01:27:11,280
2420 I'm not sure if that's
numerology

1429
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,100
or not at all the 420 part I
picked up on I'm not quite sure.

1430
01:27:15,150 --> 01:27:17,070
Yeah, that's our group. Good
group.

1431
01:27:17,159 --> 01:27:22,859
I've got a defragment everybody.
Okay, thank you all very much.

1432
01:27:23,249 --> 01:27:26,369
This is what it what it runs on.
This is how the only way there's

1433
01:27:26,369 --> 01:27:29,579
no advertising, commercial
interests, anything that could

1434
01:27:29,579 --> 01:27:32,969
cloud the vision of preserving
podcasting as a platform for

1435
01:27:32,969 --> 01:27:36,119
free speech and bringing
everybody in and spreading the

1436
01:27:36,119 --> 01:27:42,449
love by retooling as a platform
of value for all. And we of

1437
01:27:42,449 --> 01:27:44,699
course appreciate it when you
can send some treasure our way

1438
01:27:44,699 --> 01:27:48,629
go to podcast index.org. And on
the bottom Big Red Donate

1439
01:27:48,629 --> 01:27:51,539
button. There's also a way to
send us some lightning Bitcoin

1440
01:27:51,930 --> 01:27:55,290
$600 closer to being Todd and
Mike's balls. That's right.

1441
01:27:55,290 --> 01:27:55,710
Can't wait.

1442
01:27:55,710 --> 01:27:56,880
I'm gonna make him get coffee.

1443
01:27:57,210 --> 01:28:01,170
Yeah, that's a guy guys. We're
gonna put better coffee in the

1444
01:28:01,170 --> 01:28:01,800
break room.

1445
01:28:03,180 --> 01:28:06,510
Things will improve charge of
Dev.

1446
01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:15,239
Adam now be honest with you
never want to be in charge of

1447
01:28:15,239 --> 01:28:17,429
dev because that is just nothing
but a

1448
01:28:19,980 --> 01:28:25,410
was when I when we took took my
company public in 96. And I

1449
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:29,460
never wanted to be the CEO. I
was CTO. So I had great people

1450
01:28:29,460 --> 01:28:33,690
working with me, but I remember
becoming because we were NASDAQ

1451
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:39,150
becoming y2k compliant. Brother,
let me tell you, I learned a

1452
01:28:39,150 --> 01:28:40,650
lot. I learned a lot during

1453
01:28:40,650 --> 01:28:45,690
that process. And during the y2k
thing, I worked at a Insurance

1454
01:28:45,690 --> 01:28:50,880
Brokerage as a as a sysadmin. We
had a floppy disk that we would

1455
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:56,520
run What do you get was a three
and a half inch floppy that

1456
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:59,610
would go around to every
computer in the entire like,

1457
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:03,270
this is like, you know, 500
machines, you put the floppy

1458
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:06,330
disk and boot off the floppy.
you'd run a couple of commands.

1459
01:29:06,330 --> 01:29:09,300
It would tell you whether the
BIOS was y2k compatible or not.

1460
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:12,990
If it wasn't, then you had a
firmware you had to load up to

1461
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:15,000
weeks. weeks.

1462
01:29:15,029 --> 01:29:18,599
I got it. I did get a NASDAQ
commendation for being the first

1463
01:29:18,599 --> 01:29:23,849
public company to be fully y2k
compliant. Which sad about

1464
01:29:23,849 --> 01:29:25,649
seeing the big scam that it was

1465
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:30,990
my mom bought her bunker and
regenerators and that's it.

1466
01:29:33,029 --> 01:29:35,189
Hey, it's still useful today. So

1467
01:29:37,380 --> 01:29:38,310
more useful.

1468
01:29:39,630 --> 01:29:40,350
Gentlemen, it's

1469
01:29:40,350 --> 01:29:42,960
been so nice having you on. It's
nice to just chat for a little

1470
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:45,450
bit. Is there anything we
missed? You guys want to talk

1471
01:29:45,450 --> 01:29:49,170
about besides the acquisition,
any other word knows we're in a

1472
01:29:49,170 --> 01:29:54,300
quiet period right now. Anything
else on your radar that we can

1473
01:29:54,300 --> 01:29:57,240
do to improve your lives? Well,

1474
01:29:57,239 --> 01:30:00,899
I think just for the podcasters
that are listening I think that

1475
01:30:00,899 --> 01:30:04,919
it's more important than ever,
that you do everything you can

1476
01:30:04,919 --> 01:30:08,549
to build your show and your
brand on, on land you own,

1477
01:30:08,669 --> 01:30:12,389
whether that be your own.com and
on your own iron or whatever it

1478
01:30:12,389 --> 01:30:17,159
may be. I think having your own
having your own website, in this

1479
01:30:17,159 --> 01:30:20,639
day and time and controlling
your RSS feed is really, really

1480
01:30:20,639 --> 01:30:23,549
critical. You know, if anything
else make sure you you own

1481
01:30:23,549 --> 01:30:27,479
that.com that that RSS feeds
associated with Amen. Yeah,

1482
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:27,719
that's

1483
01:30:27,719 --> 01:30:28,769
a great advice.

1484
01:30:29,369 --> 01:30:32,549
I was like, say, build your show
on your platform, somebody

1485
01:30:32,549 --> 01:30:33,209
else's.

1486
01:30:33,989 --> 01:30:34,979
And 100%

1487
01:30:35,159 --> 01:30:36,179
we can help you do that.

1488
01:30:36,509 --> 01:30:39,509
And whatever you do look for
protocols, not platforms,

1489
01:30:39,539 --> 01:30:44,459
because that's people just
jumping from the fat into the

1490
01:30:44,459 --> 01:30:46,259
fire everywhere. Yep.

1491
01:30:46,710 --> 01:30:49,020
I mean, yeah, thanks, Adam and
de purlins Come on, we

1492
01:30:49,020 --> 01:30:49,500
appreciate.

1493
01:30:49,770 --> 01:30:51,510
Yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

1494
01:30:51,630 --> 01:30:55,680
No, thank you guys. And thank
you for for being a pillar, a

1495
01:30:55,680 --> 01:31:01,230
pillar of the podcasting space.
But also just, you know, great,

1496
01:31:01,260 --> 01:31:05,130
great members of the UN, I mean
it when I say community, because

1497
01:31:05,130 --> 01:31:08,550
podcasting, it's still it's
always going to be community as

1498
01:31:08,550 --> 01:31:11,760
long as we have free and open
podcasting and you are clearly

1499
01:31:12,690 --> 01:31:14,850
right there at the tip of the
spear with everybody else and

1500
01:31:14,850 --> 01:31:18,300
really, really appreciate it and
thanks again for coming on. And

1501
01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:21,420
I'm sure will be will be update
what what have you guys on again

1502
01:31:21,420 --> 01:31:23,700
in the future, you know, after
after the sale.

1503
01:31:25,949 --> 01:31:26,939
It'll just be a meeting and

1504
01:31:27,779 --> 01:31:30,569
a quick meeting. Dave, anything
for you as we wrap it up.

1505
01:31:30,989 --> 01:31:35,849
Now, I get to take care of the
day job, so I'm not I'm good.

1506
01:31:35,849 --> 01:31:39,359
I'm like I just need to any some
food. gotta eat some lunch,

1507
01:31:39,359 --> 01:31:42,269
everybody, go get your favorite
dev some lunch pizza works. I

1508
01:31:42,269 --> 01:31:44,879
hear and thank you very much for
joining us once again to

1509
01:31:44,879 --> 01:31:48,659
podcasting. 2.0 we back again
with another board meeting of

1510
01:31:48,659 --> 01:31:50,429
the future next Friday. See

1511
01:31:50,430 --> 01:31:50,970
you then.

1512
01:32:07,979 --> 01:32:13,109
Listening to podcasting 2.0
visit podcasts index.com for

1513
01:32:13,109 --> 01:32:16,439
more information. podcasts are
cool.