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Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for
September 13. 2024, episode 193,

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helpful little wizards. Oh, it's
Friday, but not just any Friday.

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It's Friday the 13th. What could
possibly go wrong? Well,

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nothing, because you are here in
the boardroom, the only

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boardroom in all of podcasting,
as far as I know, we're so

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decentralized. And of course, we
are the boardroom that doesn't

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care who you vote for. I'm Adam
curry here in the heart of the

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Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama, the man who chased his

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core to the ends of his Id say
hello to my friend on the other

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end, the One Only Mr. Dave
Jones.

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Dave Jones: My dog is looking at
me like, I mean, he's, he never

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does this, but he's staring at
me through the glass door.

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Adam Curry: Let him in like he
wants to come in. He's,

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Dave Jones: he's got a I'm gonna
bark look on his face like I've

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never seen. Oh, Louis is a count
countdown team on this question

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mark. Now, does

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Adam Curry: he just bark willy
nilly, or does he bark at stuff,

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at people and trucks and cars
and deer and stuff?

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Dave Jones: The the triggers for
he barks at stuff, but the

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triggers to what makes him bark
are completely inscrutable. Oh,

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we have no idea what it is, but
what he will, he'll definitely.

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So here's a crazy thing. He will
start barking from the amazing

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that he's asleep, like dead
asleep in the middle of the

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house. Oh

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Adam Curry: yes, he'll

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Dave Jones: start barking go to
the door, and there will be a

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guy walking a dog down the
sidewalk, and it's like, how did

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Adam Curry: you know? Yeah,
Phoebe does that too, and

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they're kind of the same breed,
although we, we had her in the

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in the paws and claws pet resort
while we were in Mexico.

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Dave Jones: And claws, this is
like a mani pedi place. Oh,

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yeah. And

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Adam Curry: I always get her the
executive suite because I feel

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so guilty about boarding her.
Because, you know this, we can't

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really find anyone here who can.
I mean, she's, she's under 100

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pounds, but she's a big dog,
and, you know, so happy.

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Dave Jones: Do they garnish? Do
they garnish the dog food with,

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like, parsley?

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Adam Curry: No, no, they don't.
Otherwise, it's pretty regular.

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And they say, I'm all excited to
go get her, you know, hey,

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Phoebe. She's like, wagging her
tail a little bit. Okay,

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whatever. And she was mad for a
whole 48 hours, you'd tell she

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was so mad, like, you put me in
that place. Yeah, you got the fu

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Oh yeah, for a while, that aloof
look they can give you, like,

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yeah, okay, yeah. Like, I'm

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Dave Jones: over you. Ready?

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Adam Curry: She's back to
normal. Though I hate it. I hate

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boarding the dog. I do not like
doing that. Not my favorite

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thing. How's your week been,
brother, pretty good. Is it busy

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time again for you? Is
September, September 15? Another

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busy time? September

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Dave Jones: 15? October 15? Are
they extension filing? You know,

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extension deadlines for for
filing. So, yeah, it's like a

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little mini, mini tax season,
but we're, we're getting through

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it that. I mean, last night, I
did myself no favors. Uh oh, by

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I've been fighting this I've
been fighting this thing. I've

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been fighting this problem with
what I thought was cores. So

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cores, for the uninitiated, is
cross origin resource sharing.

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So for a web browser, by
default, is only allowed to to

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load, to load resources mean
meaning images and JavaScript

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and things like that. It's only
allowed to load, pull those

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things into the page from its
own from its own domain. Now,

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images are an exception. Images
are have always been an

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exception to this, to this rule.

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Adam Curry: How did images get
the exception.

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Dave Jones: I, you know, I don't
know there's, there's probably,

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there's probably some course
board, of course, like from Tim

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Berners Lee, probably like as he
was writing the first thing, he

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was probably like, you know
what? We ought to just give

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images an exception. And that
was the way it was. You know how

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it goes.

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Adam Curry: Does it have to be
verified images, though, does it

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have to be a JPEG or gif or etc?

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Dave Jones: I really don't know
how that's determined. I'm

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assuming it's my MIME type.

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Adam Curry: But you could spoof
No, you could spoof it. Yeah,

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Dave Jones: you could spoof it.
But the browser, but the inter

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the the interpreters in the
browser, they know the DOM

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parsers are probably, yeah,
they're gonna reject that Yeah,

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but so that the carve out for
images has, has always been

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there, and yeah, you're you're
right. Harf had, it's mostly

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JavaScript, but it is more than
that, because other tags can

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contain JavaScript sometimes.
You can load stuff into the

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browser and it becomes
JavaScript later, which is

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always fun, you know, like
that's always been, that's

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always been an issue. That's how
a lot of cross site scripting

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attacks work. But if so, cores
is basically everything that's

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not an image. Cores is, or when
I say image, I mean, I think

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it's, I think it's actually all
of media. I think it's images,

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video and audio. I think,

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Adam Curry: oh yeah, like mp
three would also be exam, yeah,

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Dave Jones: right, yeah. So I
believe, I believe that's the

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case. Somebody can correct me if
I'm wrong. But the so for core,

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for cores, you can, you tip. You
have to, it's a server side

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change you have to make. You
have to say, I'm allowing my

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stuff to be loaded from this
other domain. So my domain is,

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you know, davejones.com, and
yours is Adam curry.com and you

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can't load script and things
from, from Dave jones.com on

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your web pages, and allow you
to,

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Adam Curry: oh, you have to
allow me, yes. Oh, okay, yeah,

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Dave Jones: right. And so
there's a bunch of headers that

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have to be exchanged, like pre
flight headers and that kind of

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thing. And there's, there's
specific headers for that? Well,

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I've been trying to load them
this side project that mean

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you're working. I've been trying
to load this. I was trying to

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load some images that were in
object storage, and they just

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would not they would not load.
And I'm comparing the buckets

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the object storage buckets,
they're both on Linode. So I

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have one example that works,
have another example that does

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not work, and I'm like, dumping
out policies.

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Adam Curry: Is this the forward
back button?

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Dave Jones: No, no, no. This is
for, like, loading a piece of,

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like, just an image. So like,
loading an image and you have,

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so, like, if I look we we have
some stuff that we host for

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podcast index that's like, the
bucket is feeds, dot podcast

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index.org, that's where we put
some sort of, like, sandbox

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stuff and that kind of thing.
And all of those images were

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fine. Just stick an image tag in
the page. It loads fine. This

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other bucket doesn't work, and
it's giving me a 403, by 403403,

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forbidden. Uh huh. That doesn't
even sound like cores I'm like,

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so, I mean, I was up for like,
that was up to about almost one

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o'clock in the morning, no,

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Adam Curry: and you get up early
too. So that's that was late

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trying

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Dave Jones: True, true of trying
to figure this out. And it

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finally, it just, it finally hit
me that in setting up the the C

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name to pass through Cloudflare
to go to this bucket because you

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want your buckets to be
accessible from like, you know,

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feeds. Dot podcast index, I

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Adam Curry: want everybody. I
want everybody to be able to

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touch my buckets.

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Dave Jones: Your buckets are so
big. Yeah, it's a shame to hide

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them. Yes, you but you don't
want it to be what it normally

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would be, which would be like,
feeds, dot podcast, index.org,

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dot s3 dot Leno, dot, you know,
bucket one, dash southeast.com,

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so just,

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Adam Curry: does this story end
with? It was DNS?

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Dave Jones: No, no, no. It ends
with, it is with, I stupidly set

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up a Cloudflare setting that I
did that I wasn't like. So

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CloudFlare, when you set up a
new site to to pass through

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CloudFlare, it wants you to do
it has these helpful little

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wizards that will turn on a
bunch of features

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Adam Curry: for you. It's all
always suspicious. Helpful

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little wizards. Helpful little
wizards. That's the show title,

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right there.

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Dave Jones: Never trust a
helpful little wizard. But if

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you So, there's a couple of
these. And wizard also a great

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song by Black Sabbath, yeah. If
you, if you just go through each

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one of those wizards, it will
turn on, like a bunch of basic

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stuff that most people want to
turn on, and most of it is for

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sure, like it's what you want,
but this, but one of them was

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block hot linking, image hot
linking and, and I was like, and

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it finally just out of the blue,
it hit me. Oh, you know what? I

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turned that box on, and I bet
you, that's what it was. I

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turned I went and flipped the
switch off. Worked fine. I was,

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like, I was 10 miles deep into
AWS. Oh no, trying to find

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bucket policy, ACLs and
nightmares. Oh no. I could have

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just, I mean, I could have gone
to bed at like, 1030

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Adam Curry: Me, were you on? Was
it to overstack Now, what's it

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called?

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Dave Jones: Oh, Stack Overflow.
Stack

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Unknown: Overflow.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I was
everywhere, dude. I was all over

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Google trying to figure out,
What in the world is this thing.

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But yeah, that was just myself,
shooting myself in the foot.

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Adam Curry: Well, I'm glad you
figured it out. Yeah, yeah,

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yeah, we're good. Yeah, we're
good now. So yes, we have a

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project. We're working on people
like side project. What are they

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doing? Yeah, we're working on
something.

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Dave Jones: Yeah. Speaking of,
speaking of side projects, and

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you got anything you want to
jump right into? No, no, I

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don't. There's, there's a bunch
much happening this week. But

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one thing that I'm pretty pumped
about is, let me refresh my

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page. Where did this go? Okay,
there it is. But one thing I'm

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pretty pumped about is Alex
Gates has been building, by my

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request, he has been building a,
what is he building? He's been

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building a tool, a two. What

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Adam Curry: is he building in
there? It's, it's a,

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Dave Jones: it's a pod, ping,
utility, okay, so what this

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thing does? Well, let me, let me
step back. Pod ping is under

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you. Is an underutilized
resource. There are hundreds of

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1000s of feeds being sent
through pod ping every second it

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seems. Yes, yeah. So if you want
to find out, if you want to find

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out what's going on in the world
of pub, of podcasting? Yeah, you

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just, you just look at that. Tap
into pod ping, and you're going

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to get the fire hose of
information. This from tons of

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different hosting companies, the
big, the biggest ones, bus

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sprout, Spreaker, blueberry man,
I need to even look at the

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Captivate. I need to look at
that list again, because, you

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know, the top 10 is well
represented in pod ping.

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Adam Curry: Oh yeah, it's yes. I
wish we had many more. But the

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top 10, the big ones, are there
cash. I mean, is lips in there.

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They're not pods. That would be
so good if they, if they jumped

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in, that'd be so easy, even I
could code that for him.

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Dave Jones: You can always
please do. Please send him some

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code, yes. So if you, if you tap
into you, you can imagine how

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pod paint is a what you know,
obviously pod ping sends an

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update through the through the
blockchain every time a feed

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gets updated. This is such
useful information, but we don't

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even pull Buzzsprout or
Spreaker. No, of course never

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touch. Don't have to never,
yeah, we never send a request

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for a feed until the end comes
through. We just there's no

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need. So we wait for them to
tell us when the show is

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updated, then we check them. So
you can imagine building a new

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app. This is going to be an
immediate resource that you want

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to tap into, because that means
you don't have to poll them. You

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don't have to you can also get
great information, historical

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information from the blockchain,
like, how often does this show

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update? What time windows do?
Does the show typically update

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in you know that what you know
what time of what time of day,

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how, how many times a week or
month? Yeah,

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Adam Curry: it's you've got
stats. You've got data. By the

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way, I just received a boost
rss.com, loves pod. Ping, just

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letting you know.

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Dave Jones: Thank you. Every
time I start listing people, I

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always listen. Leave somebody
out. I should stop listing um.

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So what the only drawback to pod
ping? And I'm sorry, Brian, but

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the only drawback to hi to pod
ping is hive is is something

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that people just don't
understand,

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Adam Curry: or they just hear
blockchain, they go, Oh no,

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Dave Jones: right? And we've
lot. We've largely for for the

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use case of pod ping, it's what
hive is, is irrelevant to what,

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yeah, because

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Adam Curry: you don't need to
know it. You just don't need to

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know what, what's doing. Yeah,

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Dave Jones: you just tap the
fire hose and you're good and

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you're good, or you send and so
we and we, and we, we abstracted

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that with the with the pod ping
dot cloud interface. So you just

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send your update to pod ping dot
cloud, and it takes care. Of all

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the hive stuff and on the on the
back end, and you don't, you

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never have to even understand
Hive at all. But that's on the

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sending side. We needed a
salute. We need a solution

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that's just as easy on the
receiving side. So

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Adam Curry: yes, if app devs can
do something with it, and

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Dave Jones: there is, there are
tools that Brian and then Alex

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built called, like, the hive
watcher,

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Adam Curry: yes, or my, my
favorite tiles, dot pod,

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ping.org,

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Dave Jones: yeah, that, yeah,
that's now, that's like, that

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would be more like an app.

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Adam Curry: It, oh, no, of
course it is. It's totally an

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app. Yeah.

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Dave Jones: So the tool, the
tool that I'm talking about,

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let's, let's say that you're
building a a podcast app, or a

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podcast platform of some sort,
and you want to watch pod, think

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pod ping for updates in a
programmatic way that you can

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pipe into your system. The Hive
watcher Python tool would get

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you there. There's also a
version of it in JavaScript.

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They are, they work, but they're
complicated in the sense that

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when they fail you, if you don't
have expertise in Hive or Python

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or or node, you really are kind
of lost. So what I'm trying to

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do and and actually reading from
hive can become complicated,

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because you're what you're doing
is you're watching a bunch of

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API servers on the hive side,
and those things can go up and

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down. It's a distributed, it's a
distributed blockchain. So let's

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just, let's say you have 75 API
servers. What if one of them

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dropped? Just, you know, yeah,
if

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Adam Curry: that's the one
you're watching, then you can

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have a problem, yeah.

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Dave Jones: So you need to be,
it's sort of like, I mean, bad

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example, but it's kind of like
nostr in that way, if you're, if

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you're currently interacting
with one nostr relay and that

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thing drops you, I mean, you
have to be able to intelligently

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go somewhere else and figure,
you know, you gotta be able to

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switch gears. So the same, same
type of deal here. So anyway,

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there's all that complexity. So
what I asked Alex for was, I'm

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like, can you build just a super
simple hive watcher tool that

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will watch the blockchain and
then write every update to a to

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a file in the file system. Oh,

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Adam Curry: yeah, which is the
way we actually like stuff like

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a JSON exactly,

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Dave Jones: because it's JSON in
the block. So you just take that

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JSON out file. Yeah, got it. So
he's been working on that for

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for a few months in in rust.
He's building in a rust. So

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we've got memories, memory
safety. We got the memory

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stability, and it is already the
pod, ping, dot, cloud front end

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is written in rust. So we're,
we're just kind of making this

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all match up well. So he, he got
it he he gave me access to the

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repo day before yesterday. I got
it installed and got it compiled

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yesterday, and fired it up this
morning, and it works like a

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charm. Oh, awesome. So it's,
it's just, it's a it's a day.

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It's a daemon that just runs
24/7, every time there's a new

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hive block, it looks and sees if
there's any pod ping information

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in it. If there is, it extracts
it and sticks it into a file.

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And it's just doing that all the
time.

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Adam Curry: So are you by firing
this up, are you actually

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connecting to the hive chain, or
you just watching the hive

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chain? Well, I guess it's the
same thing. You're not an active

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00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,520
participant in the chain. You're
just a lurker.

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Dave Jones: Yeah? I'm trying to
figure out maybe an analogy

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there. So it's sort of like, you
know how? You know how Spurlock

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built that blue sky fire hose
watcher thing, like every post,

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yeah, yeah, that goes through
it. He, you know, waterfalls

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down the page. That's this
thing. It's really not, it's not

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participating. It's not posting
anything. It's just really, it's

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because the the hot, the hive
network has full nodes which

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participate in creating the

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Adam Curry: blockchain right,
which has a whole bunch of stuff

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in each block you don't need,
yeah, and so then

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Dave Jones: you and, but you
also have API servers where if

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you just want to see what's
there, you can just tap into

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those. And so he's monitoring
multiple API servers and

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00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:57,880
juggling all that stuff.

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Adam Curry: And does it write
us? An individual file per

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00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:02,520
block.

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00:20:05,339 --> 00:20:11,999
Dave Jones: It writes per it
writes it as transactions. So it

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00:20:11,999 --> 00:20:16,919
creates a folder structure that
is year, month, day, hour,

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00:20:16,919 --> 00:20:22,339
minute, second, and within that
second folder, it has

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00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,319
potentially multiple files, each
with block number, transaction

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number, and a couple of other
bits of data inside that file

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will be the JSON. Wow, cool.
Yeah. So then, you know,

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obviously, once you have this
thing, we can do all and it's

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00:20:45,699 --> 00:20:51,699
running right now on a just a $5
a month, Linode with, once we

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have this data, we can, we can
start to my next step will be

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00:20:56,919 --> 00:21:00,479
create the scripting, or
whatever we're, you know, we're

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00:21:00,479 --> 00:21:06,719
going to do to then push this
data to different places. First

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00:21:06,719 --> 00:21:10,979
on my list will be to put it in
object storage, right in a way,

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so that developers can tap

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Adam Curry: into it easy, yep,
yep, with an API or just flat

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00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:20,040
file access. Listen to me.

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Dave Jones: You're a pro. You
sell a pro the I think. And I'm

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00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:32,420
open to suggestions here, but I
think the way that I'm going to

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do it is the way that we're
doing the tracking, object

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00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:41,020
storage stuff. So there'll be a
thing that may be like tracking

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or or watch dot pod, ping, dot
cloud. And then that will be

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just a bucket. And there will be
one place, there will be a

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starting point there. There'll
always be, there'll always be a

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file in that bucket called
current that has the current

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00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:02,280
block number or the current file
name, and you can just, you can

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just walk back the walk back
right chain through the

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00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,940
structure into Yeah, until you
hit a date or a block number

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that you've

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Adam Curry: that you've seen. I
want an OPML version of it.

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Dave, you

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00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,100
Dave Jones: are you? Do you? Do
you like, do you like 12 gig

336
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:19,620
OPML, because that's what,
that's what it'll

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00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:24,740
Adam Curry: be. Yeah. That's
cool, you know, yeah. So

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00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,020
Dave Jones: I've also got
another idea.

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00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,060
Adam Curry: Well, let me just
stick on this for a second,

340
00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:33,500
because, you know, this project
that we're working on is, I

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00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:37,400
don't know how to describe it,
but it has given just looking at

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00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,600
the work you're doing. And by
the way, Dave Jones doing

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00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,460
interface work is mind blowing.

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Dave Jones: Mind blowing is one
way to describe it. No,

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Adam Curry: I mean, you know,
you're, you know. And I say this

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00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,340
with love, your interfaces are,
you know, like kind of a mauve

347
00:22:54,340 --> 00:22:58,720
background and text, you know,
and some boxes and buttons,

348
00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:05,040
well, they're functional.
They're 100% functional.

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Dave Jones: She's, she's got
such a great personality, no?

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00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:14,700
Adam Curry: Well, yeah, in a
way. But whatever is this, that

351
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:21,380
framework you're using, Laravel,
yeah, whatever you're doing,

352
00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:24,980
it's, it's outputting stuff that
is beautiful. Well,

353
00:23:24,980 --> 00:23:26,600
Dave Jones: now, I mean, the
stuff you the stuff you're

354
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,320
seeing is now that that's all me
from scratch that, oh, okay,

355
00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:35,960
that's some the the stuff on the
dashboard side, that's, that's

356
00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:39,740
some Laravel. But the the output
that you get on the other end of

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it, that's

358
00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:43,360
Adam Curry: all well, okay,
well, all right. So blown away,

359
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:50,200
double blown away. But it's,
it's given me so much. It really

360
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,140
makes my brain creative. Like,
look at all the things we can

361
00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:56,020
do. It's the same when I look at
tiles, dot pod, ping.org, I'm

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like, all the things that can be
done, because I look at it and

363
00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:03,840
say, Oh, look, think about the
data behind it. I mean, this is,

364
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,780
I guess, what I was getting to
in the past episode or so about

365
00:24:07,260 --> 00:24:12,540
building different kinds of apps
that do different things. It's

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00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:16,500
this, we're, you know, we're
still a little caught in in our

367
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:23,420
inbox, yeah, motif of frame of
mind, right? So, like, Okay,

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00:24:23,420 --> 00:24:27,920
here's your podcast, here's your
episodes. And just the thinking

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about different types of
experiences with this data, it's

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00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:35,540
my mind just keeps spinning and
spinning. Like, Oh man, you can

371
00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:38,000
do so much stuff, which I hope,
I hope, happens.

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Dave Jones: Air peeps, he said,
You guys are minimalist. Yes,

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thank

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Adam Curry: you. Yeah,
minimalist interface.

375
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,400
Dave Jones: There you go.
Minimalist as far as effort

376
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,740
goes, it's usually the way it
goes. Is usually what that

377
00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:53,380
means. Yeah, no, I feel, I feel
what you're saying. Because

378
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,860
that's See, that's the way I
feel with with pod, the pod,

379
00:24:56,860 --> 00:25:04,140
ping, um, Dan. Damon, is that,
like one here? Like one thing I

380
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:10,080
want to do is make this
available over activity. Pub,

381
00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:18,060
yeah, baby, you can subscribe to
put you can subscribe to feed at

382
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,640
activity. Pub, dot pod, ping,
dot cloud interact in an

383
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,240
activity pub client. And then
whenever a pod ping comes

384
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,220
through, you get it, you get a
note,

385
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,700
Adam Curry: Oh, wow. You'll need
a separate, separate timeline

386
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:34,760
for that. That'll be, that'll
be, I mean, we're running about

387
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,960
311 pod ping every three
seconds.

388
00:25:40,940 --> 00:25:43,600
Dave Jones: No, like, this is
not for, this is not for human

389
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,320
consumption. For,

390
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,920
Adam Curry: no, not at all.
Yeah, definitely not, yeah. This

391
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,740
Dave Jones: is totally for,
like, architecture, so, but,

392
00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:54,880
but, I mean, we can, you know,
we can do it, and that I can see

393
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:00,840
how this, I can see how this
moves the needle, or could

394
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,640
potentially move the needle to
get what I want to what I want

395
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,540
to do is just get, get
podcasting away from polling.

396
00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:12,000
You know what I mean for sure,

397
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:19,200
Adam Curry: polling is for
pussies. It's all right, yes, we

398
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,260
definitely need that. Polling is
for pussies.

399
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:23,900
Dave Jones: Yeah? Work on that.
Yes. No agenda shop. Yeah,

400
00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:27,980
please. But you know what I
mean, like, there's, there's, so

401
00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:32,240
there's just no reason for it
anymore. There really isn't. You

402
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,600
know that? The reason, well,
that's, let me, let me take that

403
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,540
back. That's, that's too bold of
a statement. The reason, the

404
00:26:40,540 --> 00:26:45,160
only reason to poll is if you
have to, that's a better way to

405
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,680
say it. If there's a, if there's
something, if something happened

406
00:26:50,740 --> 00:26:56,080
where there was some sort of,
you know, censorship, or

407
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,180
something that was needing to be
avoided. You know, sure, poll,

408
00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:07,140
but, but I don't for 99% of the
time. I really think we can get

409
00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:10,680
to a point in podcasting where
we don't have to poll anymore. I

410
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,800
mean, pod ping is our popping
has already got us most of the

411
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,760
way there, and it's not even
this is not, this is not even

412
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:24,680
for just hosting companies. You
know, if you're at rss.com you,

413
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,680
yeah, of course, you're going to
send a pod ping every time you

414
00:27:27,740 --> 00:27:31,940
update your feed. But it also,
if you're using power press or

415
00:27:31,940 --> 00:27:35,180
seriously, simple on your
WordPress site, they also send

416
00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:39,620
pod things. Yeah, and they're on
their own domains like this, so

417
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,100
I don't re I really think we can
go to a post polling world. Ooh,

418
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,220
Adam Curry: post polling world.
I like it. PPW,

419
00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:55,780
Dave Jones: yeah. And this, I
think this tool let is the

420
00:27:55,780 --> 00:28:01,620
building block for how, for how
we start making, for how we

421
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:05,160
start making pod ping like,
ubiquitous and everywhere?

422
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:10,740
Adam Curry: Yeah, you know what
I have learned throughout the

423
00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:14,760
years is, if you have a fire
hose or more data that updates

424
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:20,960
regularly, it's like, like,
honey for the fly developer, you

425
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,100
know, I was like, and they just,
they, when they see the data,

426
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:28,100
they're like, oh, what can I do
with this? There got to be

427
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:31,520
something I could. And that's,
that's how Bing it.io was built,

428
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,060
you know, I just always
published the knowledge in the

429
00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:42,160
show notes, in XML, and boom.
You know, there were, at 1.4 or

430
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,180
five different search engines,
and then once we added the

431
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:51,280
transcripts, oh, man, it just
became crazy. Which is, by the

432
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,400
way, is a bit of the stuff
David's doing with hypercatcher.

433
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Have you been following his his
developments? I have not, no. So

434
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,960
please tell me it was. Yeah,
he's back on the stick with

435
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,220
hypercatcher. And so the two
things, I don't have

436
00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:08,760
hypercatcher, I think it's iOS
only, if I may be wrong, but

437
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,960
there's also a web version. So
first of all, on the app itself,

438
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:17,520
he's generating transcripts on
the fly in the app. Not quite

439
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,780
sure how that's happening, but
he's doing on device, right on

440
00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:27,500
device, yeah. But also you can
do searches and lookups on the

441
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:32,420
chapter data, so you can
research stuff. So whatever, the

442
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,960
whatever is in the chapter, you
can, you know, then have the app

443
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,560
go and look up stuff about that
particular topic. You

444
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520
Dave Jones: mean, like, like
Google searches and stuff he

445
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,620
Adam Curry: he actually let me
see, hold on a second, because

446
00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:51,460
he posted an example, which was
Rogan. Let me see,

447
00:29:53,260 --> 00:29:55,960
Dave Jones: is it a real time
fact check? Well,

448
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:02,640
Adam Curry: in a way, because he
said, here we go. Yeah. Hyper

449
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,860
catcher, can now take the
chapter

450
00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:08,100
Dave Jones: data. The chapter
drip stuff said, Hey, Jamie, is

451
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:08,760
what it's

452
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,760
Adam Curry: exactly what it's
called. Yes, can take the

453
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,300
chapter. Thanks for ruining the
punchline. Dreb I was getting to

454
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:21,080
it. Could take the chapter data
from podcasts you've listened to

455
00:30:21,140 --> 00:30:25,340
and any research term, Hey,
Jamie couldn't quote and compile

456
00:30:25,340 --> 00:30:28,400
it into a markdown file for
sharing and note taking apps

457
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,300
like obsidian.

458
00:30:30,260 --> 00:30:35,900
Dave Jones: Nice, yeah, that's
really cool. Yeah. So

459
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,540
Adam Curry: I love that. I love
that there's different different

460
00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:41,500
ideas and different reasons, and
this also gives people a reason

461
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:46,960
to have multiple apps, you know?
And I think we probably already

462
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,740
use multiple apps for different
reasons, which is nice when it

463
00:30:50,740 --> 00:30:53,860
all just kind of works, and it
would be nice to sync that all

464
00:30:53,860 --> 00:30:59,020
over activity. Pub, no, I'm
saying, just saying, wouldn't it

465
00:30:59,020 --> 00:31:01,560
be cool to have my all of my
apps syncing with the

466
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,520
subscriptions.

467
00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:09,180
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's,
well, you know, that kind of

468
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,540
leads into that leads into
episodes out FM, yes, now

469
00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:20,220
supporting, now supporting all
feeds instead of just iTunes

470
00:31:20,220 --> 00:31:26,120
IDs. So like that makes that,
makes that part easier. Oh,

471
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,900
Adam Curry: because, first of
all, episodes.fm so awesome,

472
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,000
although this was a lesson in UI
design. So I brought it up

473
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,780
yesterday to tweet out the live
no agenda Show episode and and

474
00:31:40,780 --> 00:31:43,840
I, and I go to episodes.fm,
like, whoa, okay, different

475
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,180
homepage. Hold on a second.
Like, what? Okay, where's the

476
00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:49,540
search box? Fine. And then it
keeps opening up

477
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,700
podcast.apple.com, and I know
that you can set it, so whatever

478
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,520
your preferred player is, it
always opens that. But I want to

479
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,780
go to the page that just has all
the different apps that you can

480
00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:04,020
then select. So when I when I
tweet that out, and when I boost

481
00:32:04,020 --> 00:32:09,360
it out, or to it out, when I
slash that X, people can choose

482
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,760
their own and the button that
selects open up your preferred

483
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:20,480
player or open up the list had
become inverted in the new UI.

484
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,680
Dave Jones: Oh, it used to, it
used to be used, right? Yeah,

485
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:24,920
you

486
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,080
Adam Curry: toggle it to the
right, and now it was to the

487
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,640
left. Like, oh. And it took me
a, you know, in the, in the, in

488
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,100
the heat of the battle, getting
ready to go live, like, Oh, what

489
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:37,520
is going on here? I don't
understand. I immediately got,

490
00:32:37,580 --> 00:32:40,780
immediately someone on mass, on
guy. He said, Oh, okay, hey,

491
00:32:40,780 --> 00:32:45,520
Boomer. Like, thanks. Thanks.
Didn't even respond to that.

492
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,660
Dave Jones: I need to. I'm gonna
actually try this out here. I'm

493
00:32:49,660 --> 00:32:52,540
gonna pick a show that I know
does not have an iTunes ID, and

494
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,540
that's gonna be, let's just do
murder in the fourth dimension.

495
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:06,180
Yeah, here we go. We're in the
fourth dimension. Oh, there's no

496
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:11,220
wait. Oh, I'm merged. So Steven
crater did a pull request to

497
00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:18,060
bring to enable episodes.fm for
pages that, for pages that

498
00:33:18,060 --> 00:33:24,860
didn't, didn't have iTunes IDs
on the podcast index. It's not,

499
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:25,640
you know, curry

500
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,080
Adam Curry: and the keeper also
doesn't come up yet. So maybe he

501
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,520
hasn't implemented it all yet,
because I'm looking for curry,

502
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,280
and the keeper, which I know
doesn't have an iTunes ID and it

503
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,980
does not show up. Hmm,

504
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,860
Dave Jones: maybe I screwed up
the the push to production, hmm,

505
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,940
uh, weren't, weren't, weren't.
I'll have to figure that out,

506
00:33:49,420 --> 00:33:52,360
because that's supposed to be
there on the pay on the podcast

507
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:53,920
index side. Oh,

508
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,200
Adam Curry: you have to pay. Oh,
you have to paste in the feed

509
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:56,800
URL,

510
00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:00,120
Dave Jones: yeah, but that
should be taken care of in the

511
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,720
yeah in the search, in the link,
yeah. You know, it's also

512
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,780
bothering me that there's no
that there's no left padding on

513
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:09,480
the podcast index avatar at the
beginning, at the top of the

514
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,900
website. There's no one that's
super important. But when the

515
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,660
when you shrink the site down,
uh, width wise,

516
00:34:19,139 --> 00:34:20,099
Adam Curry: oh yeah,

517
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:22,939
Dave Jones: the icon goes all
the way up hard to the hard edge

518
00:34:22,939 --> 00:34:24,019
on the left. Oh, gotcha.

519
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,640
Adam Curry: Gotcha. Let me see
if I podcast feed. Well, that's

520
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,300
good to know. Okay, so put the
feed in.

521
00:34:33,020 --> 00:34:36,500
Dave Jones: Steve said it works
for him. Maybe. What if I what

522
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:37,760
am I doing wrong? Okay,

523
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,320
Adam Curry: putting the feed,
oh, here.

524
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,239
Dave Jones: No, wait, wait, I
had to hard refresh my browser

525
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,379
to get it was a cash thing
because I hard. I did a get it,

526
00:34:47,379 --> 00:34:51,879
a control shift R, and now I'm
seeing the episodes.fm icon,

527
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,920
Adam Curry: oh, on the podcast
index. Oh, okay, no, I have that

528
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,620
I have. Oh, okay, that's
interesting. Let me try that. I.

529
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,980
Isn't it fun? Everybody to
listen to us do a hard R. A hard

530
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:08,880
R. That was the title of
episode, 100 of mofacs with Adam

531
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,300
curry.

532
00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:12,480
Dave Jones: The hard R was,
yeah. Do you got to do the hard

533
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,360
R on the on the page and see if
it shows up? Okay,

534
00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:19,140
Adam Curry: hard R, let's see
Ben, yeah, it shows up. And I

535
00:35:19,140 --> 00:35:22,820
hit episodes.fm yep, there is,
Oh, beautiful. Oh, well, that

536
00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:26,660
makes it easy. Thanks, Steven.
Yeah, this is great, brother.

537
00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:30,080
That's beautiful. That is
beautiful. Okay,

538
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,180
Dave Jones: see now, because now
I can take, um, now I can take

539
00:35:35,180 --> 00:35:39,080
the all those links off of the
activity, pub postings, and just

540
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,240
put one link, right, all the
pills, or whatever you call it.

541
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,400
Adam Curry: So fantastic. I'm
telling you, it's one of the

542
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,240
best developments in podcasting.
2.0 is how episodes.fm

543
00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:56,440
integrates with everything. It's
just fantastic. Awesome. It

544
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,100
really is.

545
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,200
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that's, I
think, like, I think we're, I

546
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,500
think we're seeing a bunch of
different things sort of

547
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:12,480
coalescing right now where I
think what we're in is a phase

548
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:18,300
where things are becoming
easier. Oh, totally, you know,

549
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,080
Adam Curry: I mean, I had this
thought, I'm not quite sure

550
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,820
exactly how to explain it, but I
had a thought, what if so like,

551
00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:30,200
for instance, episodes.fm is a
good, good example. So let's say

552
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,720
I send out the link, it's the
episodes.fm and you click on

553
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,180
podcast guru, because that's the
app you're using. Now it knows

554
00:36:40,180 --> 00:36:43,480
that this is looking for curry
and the keeper. What if, then,

555
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,680
when you hit the app, it starts
off with an entirely different

556
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:54,760
UI that is based upon all kinds
of you know, information that

557
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,000
that we send along in our feed,
including pod role and all this

558
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,000
stuff, you know. So I could, in
fact, send people to a platform

559
00:37:03,420 --> 00:37:09,360
within the app. Does that make
any sense? So you could come

560
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,240
into my world and I'm not

561
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,240
Dave Jones: following, not
following you, that the

562
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,500
Adam Curry: the URL, whatever
the trigger is to open up the

563
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:23,660
app that it, it doesn't just
show you this, you know, because

564
00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:27,140
you're still standard episode,
okay, here's an episode here,

565
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:29,960
you know, here's the here's the
main podcast, and then all your

566
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,560
other stuff. I mean, what if it
took over the whole UI? What if

567
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,280
it changed everything based upon
the data in the feed, right down

568
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,920
to the buttons for all I care,
you know, just like, what if?

569
00:37:40,580 --> 00:37:45,880
What if I could, and through pod
role and other things and

570
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,020
geolocation, you know, it could
show, you know, the podcast that

571
00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:53,260
we recommend that's in the
interface. It's showing stuff

572
00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:58,420
that is from the same area. You
know what? I mean, it's like, so

573
00:37:58,420 --> 00:38:03,120
that I can tell people to use
podcast guru, but it really when

574
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,560
they come in through the door
that I'm offering, it's more

575
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,700
like a platform that I'm that
I'm influencing, that I'm that I

576
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:15,960
can change based upon the data
that I'm publishing. Does that

577
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,360
make sense? Must be must not be
making sense.

578
00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:22,820
Dave Jones: It okay. Let me see
if I can sort of mirror this

579
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:27,380
back to you, my understanding of
this like you're kind of saying

580
00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:31,880
that. You're saying that when
you get a request for, let's

581
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:43,480
say, an episode of a podcast,
what you what you see, is almost

582
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,760
like a custom web site that's
built out of the parts that are

583
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,900
exposed by that episode of that
podcast. How about this?

584
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,860
Adam Curry: And it doesn't have
to be a website. This is why I'm

585
00:38:56,860 --> 00:39:01,380
interested. Well, obviously
that's much easier, perhaps, but

586
00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:08,580
let's say I'm a publisher, and
when I publish something, people

587
00:39:08,580 --> 00:39:12,000
have to have, it's if you just
open the app, then you're just

588
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,180
going to get whatever the app,
however the app functions. But

589
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:19,440
when you come to it from some
other door, a link, which I

590
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,760
think a lot of people think
about it that I don't. I mean, I

591
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,120
really don't know, but some
mechanism that when I push this

592
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:30,920
as a publisher, now you're
seeing my publisher world an app

593
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,780
takeover, if you will. I don't
know needs work.

594
00:39:37,340 --> 00:39:39,500
Dave Jones: I feel like I
understand what you're saying.

595
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:42,280
Adam Curry: I was better when I
was smoking weed, was much

596
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,500
easier. No, it wasn't.

597
00:39:49,660 --> 00:39:51,280
Dave Jones: I feel like I
understand what you're saying.

598
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,600
It's almost, it's like,

599
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:01,980
Adam Curry: like, take the thing
we're working on. I. Right? So

600
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,520
it has backgrounds. The whole
the whole thing changes based

601
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,020
upon where you're coming from,

602
00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:15,720
Dave Jones: right, right, yeah,
you like, you get a unique, it's

603
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:21,740
like, you get a unique
experience based on how you get

604
00:40:21,740 --> 00:40:22,040
there.

605
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:24,560
Adam Curry: How about this?
Okay, so, and this all stems

606
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,680
from Rachel Maddow, which is the
is so frightening for me to

607
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:28,460
think of, but

608
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,340
Dave Jones: you are stuck on
this. I am this, really, this,

609
00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:34,760
really got, uh, got your hackle
up well,

610
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:39,320
Adam Curry: and, you know, I
Yeah, Gordon just said a custom

611
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,420
skin. Yeah, that. That's a good
way of looking at it. So Rachel

612
00:40:43,420 --> 00:40:47,740
Maddow her, her main complaint
was, you know, I don't

613
00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:51,820
understand. What is the where's
the recommendations? How come?

614
00:40:51,820 --> 00:40:54,880
You know, she's what she wants
is a platform. She wants a

615
00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,840
platform like YouTube for people
to be interacting with podcasts.

616
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,160
But what she's really saying is,
I want to, I want a platform. I

617
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,440
want a platform because, of
course, you we'd all love to

618
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,120
have our own YouTube, and it'd
be our own. So when, when people

619
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,300
come in through the Rachel
Maddow, God, this hurts me. So

620
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:19,980
much of you saying this through,
through her entry point. Hey,

621
00:41:19,980 --> 00:41:23,300
sugar, it's okay through her
entry point. You know that

622
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:26,540
should be a world, and it's
still, it's still, it's still

623
00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:30,620
podcast guru, but it's a world
that she has influence over, and

624
00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:35,000
she can become the platform. So
you can, and I think that is

625
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,460
part of, it's the publisher
feed. I'm thinking, somehow I

626
00:41:37,460 --> 00:41:42,160
might it's part of the publisher
function. So you're making the

627
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,540
recommendations the app is doing
stuff based upon what I am

628
00:41:46,540 --> 00:41:50,380
publishing, all the things I'm
publishing. So all the guests

629
00:41:50,380 --> 00:41:53,140
I've had, you know, look at all
the guests I've had, you know,

630
00:41:53,860 --> 00:41:58,300
and it would be less of a
navigation inbox tool, and now

631
00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:02,160
it becomes a platform for that
particular publisher.

632
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:07,500
Dave Jones: Okay, first, first
of all, I think that you have

633
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:08,760
always been

634
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:10,020
Adam Curry: insane.

635
00:42:13,380 --> 00:42:17,100
Dave Jones: You have always been
obsessed with, and I think this

636
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:22,340
is a good obsession with getting
away from the inbox view of

637
00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:25,040
podcasting and RSS in general.

638
00:42:25,340 --> 00:42:27,920
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't know
if obsession is fair, but I'll

639
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,620
take it okay, because

640
00:42:30,620 --> 00:42:34,580
Dave Jones: that, and I'm with
you on that, I feel like, you

641
00:42:34,580 --> 00:42:37,160
know, we did this in the freedom
controller. We had this idea,

642
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,040
you know, we took a news river
approach, not an inbox reader

643
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,640
approach. You didn't have unread
items that you had to look at

644
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,440
right and again then go through
and mark as Mark as read. What

645
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,440
you just had is you just had a
stream of things coming a first

646
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,100
in, first out view. And then
there's certain things that you

647
00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:01,140
could mark as sticky, where they
would stick to the top. And you

648
00:43:01,140 --> 00:43:05,340
can say, okay, now I now most of
the time I don't really want to

649
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:10,020
have to stop and mark this thing
as red, but, but there's some

650
00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:13,800
things I don't want to miss. So
every now and then one of those

651
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,160
feeds would stick to the top,
and you would read that, and

652
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,980
then you would dismiss it, but,
and so that was sort of like a

653
00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:24,920
happy compromise between, I
don't want to miss these other

654
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,660
things, but, but the rest of 99%
of my sort of stream of content,

655
00:43:29,660 --> 00:43:32,060
I really don't care about having
to stop and mark it as red,

656
00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:37,820
which feels like work and like
that was one way of getting out

657
00:43:37,820 --> 00:43:43,480
of The inbox model of podcasts
or RSS feed readers, which to me

658
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,440
is feels, always felt very
liberating, because I hate, we

659
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,360
all hate having unread, like
unread, unread stuff. Yeah, it

660
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,200
sucks. So you don't want, you
don't want that in your life, as

661
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,360
if you don't have to have it.
So, I mean, this feels like a

662
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,760
sort of another. This feels like
another way out of that inbox

663
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,920
model where you can say where I
share an item to you as I say,

664
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,780
Hey, Adam, check out this, this
episode of this podcast, and

665
00:44:15,780 --> 00:44:20,600
then you the app opens, or the
site opens, or whatever it is

666
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,980
that's going to show you that
episode. And what you get is you

667
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:28,880
get, of course, the episode, but
then you also get the last five

668
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,340
people that listen to this
episode went on to listen to

669
00:44:31,340 --> 00:44:34,280
this other episode. Do you want
to listen to that one next? Do

670
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,580
you want to and and also, most
of the people that subscribe to

671
00:44:37,580 --> 00:44:40,540
this show also subscribe to this
to this other show. And then

672
00:44:40,540 --> 00:44:41,200
here's the pod

673
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,260
Adam Curry: role, right? But I,
but I want that to all be in the

674
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:50,260
Yes, yes, yes to that. But I
that needs to be in in madow

675
00:44:50,260 --> 00:44:50,980
world.

676
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,300
Dave Jones: What do you mean
Maddow world? So

677
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,120
Adam Curry: it has to be other
Maddow people who came in. My

678
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:05,220
Rachel Maddow, yes, we are, I
know just, it just makes it I

679
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,280
don't know if I'm hurting myself
with that in the argument or

680
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:15,900
not, okay, but I want, I want
people to come to apps, because

681
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,140
and the apps are just beautiful.
They're such wonderful. There's

682
00:45:19,140 --> 00:45:23,060
so many core functional pieces
that have been, you know, been

683
00:45:23,060 --> 00:45:27,440
worked on for decades at this
point. And you know, people are

684
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,300
winding up going to YouTube, or
winding up, you know, going to

685
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:35,120
just the web player. And by the
way, this is much easier,

686
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,080
possibly in a web environment.
And maybe, and maybe this is

687
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,100
something that really only works
for PWA is maybe just have more

688
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:47,500
more real estate you can mess
around with, but I can, I just

689
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:50,980
feels to me like, if you can
have the publishers, people who

690
00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:55,780
are publishing RSS feeds,
publishing podcasts and with

691
00:45:55,780 --> 00:46:00,040
with the 23 different tags we
have now, I should be able to,

692
00:46:00,220 --> 00:46:03,660
you know, the the app should
look at this and based upon

693
00:46:03,660 --> 00:46:07,260
other people who come in through
the same entry point. Should it

694
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:11,040
should just be a world that is,
you know, the no agenda world

695
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,680
maybe didn't just make that
easier. And and I can, and the

696
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,280
things that are coming to the
surface are indeed based upon

697
00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:24,020
what other people who come into
the world on that app are doing.

698
00:46:24,140 --> 00:46:29,060
So part of its activity streams,
maybe, and I think that's almost

699
00:46:29,060 --> 00:46:32,420
unavoidable. And by the way,
true fans has already been doing

700
00:46:32,420 --> 00:46:35,000
this for 10 years. So just so
you know, I'm sure, I'm sure

701
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,320
that. I'm sure that's a fact.

702
00:46:36,860 --> 00:46:39,500
Dave Jones: But we need to talk
about true fans, by the way,

703
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,220
Adam Curry: well, let's talk
about it. Because I think this,

704
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:48,760
I think this folds into it, that
that so when I, if I send people

705
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,600
to true fans for no agenda, that
should be no agenda world, not

706
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,620
just a true fans app that's
playing no agenda. And yeah, and

707
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,180
it's not just a skin, although
not unimportant for branding,

708
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,260
but since everyone you can
identify that people are coming

709
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:11,220
in to no agenda world. So now,
what are those people doing?

710
00:47:11,220 --> 00:47:13,740
What other so, just like you
said, a bit like the freedom

711
00:47:13,740 --> 00:47:16,080
controller, I don't want to
necessarily have to follow

712
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,500
someone, but why isn't there a
recommendation engine that shows

713
00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:23,120
me what other people have been
listening to doing. Oh, this

714
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,900
host, and, you know, people
looked at this guest, etc, just

715
00:47:26,900 --> 00:47:30,980
this whole world based upon me
sending people in through a

716
00:47:30,980 --> 00:47:37,640
certain portal. And it's, it's
easier to consider that. And

717
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,960
again, with it comes to the apps
for me, because of episodes.fm

718
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,920
it's like I'm sending people
from episodes.fm so you know,

719
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,100
someone is coming to your app.
They're opening up something in

720
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:50,800
the app, but it's an action
they've already taken. So it's

721
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,520
not just a Rando. I opened the
app. I went to no agenda, no.

722
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,760
They're coming in with with
purpose. And that's where it

723
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,620
should be, a platform, and if
somehow that can be created,

724
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:05,760
then you're gonna so that'll be
my win. When Rachel Maddow goes,

725
00:48:05,940 --> 00:48:11,100
oh, you know these apps that all
of a sudden is a platform. It's

726
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:14,400
not just an app, it's a
platform. And she has the

727
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,260
ability and the the illusion
that she actually controls it,

728
00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:25,040
which she kind of does for for
her world. But someone coming in

729
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,140
from no agenda gets a whole
different world.

730
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,260
Dave Jones: And, like, I like
this, yes, go ahead, keep going

731
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:30,980
and,

732
00:48:30,980 --> 00:48:32,960
Adam Curry: you know, and then I
look at the hyper catcher stuff.

733
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,020
So I'm doing a Hey, Jamie, look
up on Chapter data. What is it

734
00:48:36,020 --> 00:48:38,780
bringing in from me? Is it
bringing stuff in from another

735
00:48:38,780 --> 00:48:46,660
world? And can I switch worlds?
You know, I can just see such a

736
00:48:46,660 --> 00:48:50,080
rich just, I'm trying to break
my head out of the inbox model.

737
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,060
You're right. It's an obsession.
I'll stop.

738
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:59,020
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, well, I
like, I like this because you,

739
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:08,040
if you, if you take all of the
stuff that's there in the feed,

740
00:49:09,420 --> 00:49:12,420
like, all like, so this is where
all that stuff could live, like,

741
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:15,780
social, like, all the social
like activity, pub comments,

742
00:49:15,780 --> 00:49:21,440
nostra comments, pod rolls,
person tags, like, you could

743
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,740
bring all of this stuff into
almost like you. Yeah, you like,

744
00:49:24,740 --> 00:49:30,500
you said, like, a world of this
show that exists when people

745
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:34,160
enter the door from a certain
route. Because, like, like, most

746
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:39,920
of the time I just want my feed
in my app, but, but if I'm

747
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,680
getting introduced into the this
world of this show from another

748
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:51,100
spot like it actually be pretty
helpful to have the whole

749
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:52,960
context, yes,

750
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,720
Adam Curry: the whole context of
that, of that of the world that

751
00:49:55,720 --> 00:50:02,940
that, that publisher. Controls
or influences.

752
00:50:04,380 --> 00:50:07,140
Dave Jones: And then, in order
to make this happen, we need, we

753
00:50:07,140 --> 00:50:12,480
need, we need a little bit more.
One thing we need is we need the

754
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,500
banner, the ability to do
banner. We need better art

755
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:26,720
specifications outside of the
iTunes namespace. We need, we

756
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:30,440
need a large like we need to
finalize the way to put the

757
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,780
banners in there. I know Russell
at pod two. He's already, he's

758
00:50:35,780 --> 00:50:38,180
already doing this. He just took
the bull by the horns and

759
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:47,080
started doing it and but we also
maybe need some some color,

760
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,740
color information in there. I
know Nathan gathright brought

761
00:50:50,740 --> 00:50:55,660
this up and in an old issue on
the namespace about some color

762
00:50:55,660 --> 00:50:58,600
picking and that kind of thing.
Now there was, immediately,

763
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,960
there's pushback about, well,
you know, I don't want to change

764
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,320
the colors of my app based on
this other thing, but I think

765
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,280
there's a but if you look at the
Apple podcast app, that's one

766
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,960
thing it does very well, is it
sort of adopts, it adopts the

767
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,200
colors, the style of the
podcast. You know, they really

768
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,900
encourage. They want to make you
feel like you're in that

769
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:27,080
podcast, and you're not just
simply in Apple podcast app. So

770
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,520
I think that there,

771
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,340
Adam Curry: yes, that's the
start of it, absolutely.

772
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:34,520
Dave Jones: The thing that Apple
podcast is missing is all that

773
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,080
rich data to go on top of it.

774
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,060
Adam Curry: Well, that's they'll
never, they'll never get there

775
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:41,080
where they will, you know, when
we're dead and gone, because

776
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,600
they'll just keep plugging away
at their own pace. That's just

777
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:51,520
the nature of a slow company. I
guess. I'm trying to get away

778
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,180
from, oh, great. Here's a pod
roll. Click here to see

779
00:51:55,180 --> 00:51:58,600
recommendations by this podcast.
I'm trying to get away from

780
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,920
that, because that's not, you
know, when you go to Youtube, it

781
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,100
doesn't say, Click here to look
at videos like this. It shows

782
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:08,820
stuff. It's showing you stuff
everywhere. It's it has it had,

783
00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:11,100
and they're doing it behind the
scenes. And you can't really

784
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:18,600
control that as a publisher, but
in our world, you can, because

785
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,800
we are publishing the data.
There's so much data we're we're

786
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,360
pushing. And, yes, it is Bruce,
it's, uh, it's, you know,

787
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,860
instead of making it one, you
know, just a list that leads to

788
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:34,160
another list. You know, how do
you turn it into a world? In a

789
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:34,880
world

790
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,300
Dave Jones: there's, yeah, it's,
it's taking, this is, it's not

791
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:46,480
just simply showing the data is
taking sort of, like the next

792
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:51,820
step and and putting it in,
like, arranging it in a way that

793
00:52:52,180 --> 00:52:57,940
that makes you feel like you're
in that, that thing, yeah, in

794
00:52:57,940 --> 00:53:01,020
Adam Curry: that world just, I'm
just Calling what it is Rachel

795
00:53:01,020 --> 00:53:05,220
Manos world, because if she, if
she sees that, she has that

796
00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:09,120
capability, she'll promote it,
you know, yeah,

797
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,300
Dave Jones: it's Rachel's world.
Yeah, I get it. Rachel's world,

798
00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:16,500
yeah, I like, I like the idea, I
like this concept, yeah? And I

799
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:19,080
think we can, I think we can
bring some of that into what

800
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:19,980
we're doing now, you know,

801
00:53:20,820 --> 00:53:23,180
Adam Curry: well, in a way, what
we're doing with our project is

802
00:53:23,180 --> 00:53:26,420
some of that we're presenting a
world, yeah, yeah. We're

803
00:53:26,420 --> 00:53:28,580
presenting a world that, you
know,

804
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,320
Dave Jones: it's not app
centric, right? That's been

805
00:53:34,340 --> 00:53:38,000
about this other project is that
the app is not the center of the

806
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,700
universe. It's, it's creating,
it's, it's pushing the center of

807
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:46,300
the universe. It ends up being
somewhere else. And you have,

808
00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:50,260
you have to live by the rules of
that other thing, right? And

809
00:53:50,260 --> 00:53:52,780
it's actually kind of a mind
bender, and it's a little bit

810
00:53:52,780 --> 00:53:56,740
hard to get used to. I think
this makes, well, let's talk

811
00:53:56,740 --> 00:54:02,340
about true fans, okay? Because,
because Sam, Sam said that he,

812
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,060
he posted a couple of things on
Mastodon this week. He said that

813
00:54:06,060 --> 00:54:10,260
he's, they're gonna put
downloads, like local storage,

814
00:54:10,260 --> 00:54:14,220
downloads into true fans for
all, for offline playback.

815
00:54:14,279 --> 00:54:16,439
Adam Curry: That's, that's
tricky, which

816
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:22,280
Dave Jones: is cool, but he, he
posted and said that he's, he's

817
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,980
kicking he's, he's giving up,
and he's gonna put it, he's

818
00:54:24,980 --> 00:54:26,720
gonna build a native app. Oh,

819
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:30,200
Adam Curry: really, yes, I
missed that post. Really.

820
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,100
Dave Jones: Let me see. Let me
see if I can find it.

821
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:40,659
Adam Curry: Sam, I'll bet you
that, I bet you that investors

822
00:54:40,659 --> 00:54:44,199
kind of demand that investors
can't wrap their head around a

823
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:49,059
web app as as valuable think so,
yeah, I know. So

824
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:50,620
Dave Jones: let's see,

825
00:54:51,940 --> 00:54:55,900
Adam Curry: see things that's,
that's, uh, it's a big. I mean,

826
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:58,900
that's a big that is quite big,
that he, that he's going that

827
00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:01,200
way, and that's on a.
Perspective. Actually,

828
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,880
Dave Jones: I can't find the
original post here, but he bet

829
00:55:05,940 --> 00:55:11,280
he basically said, you know, I
give up, in the sense that, you

830
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,960
know what he said, specifically
said, for whatever reason,

831
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:21,980
people just don't like web apps.
It's not, you know, it's like,

832
00:55:21,980 --> 00:55:24,740
it's just not getting it's just
people are not, you know,

833
00:55:25,159 --> 00:55:30,499
Adam Curry: let me just, let me
just jump right back in. Okay, I

834
00:55:30,499 --> 00:55:37,399
think if you approach it from
the app perspective, so, I want

835
00:55:37,399 --> 00:55:42,039
a podcast app. Yes, I can see
where people think, oh, I want

836
00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:48,399
an app. I don't want this thing.
But if you're being pushed into

837
00:55:48,399 --> 00:55:57,699
a world from from the outside in
and not you know, it's just wow,

838
00:55:57,699 --> 00:55:59,379
it's a major change.

839
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,700
Dave Jones: Let me. Let me read
to you what he posted. Okay? He

840
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:07,140
said, we give in people don't un
don't understand or like

841
00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:10,140
progressive web apps. We're
going to build native iOS

842
00:56:10,140 --> 00:56:13,620
Android versions of true fans.
By the end of October, we will

843
00:56:13,620 --> 00:56:17,580
have native apps with support
for CarPlay, Android Auto, Apple

844
00:56:17,580 --> 00:56:21,140
Watch and Alexa integration.
Huh?

845
00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:24,560
Adam Curry: Well, in that case,

846
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,700
no goodbye, progressive web
apps,

847
00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:46,480
Dave Jones: the PWA, they had a
good run. No, I think that I've

848
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,520
got, I've got some thoughts on
this, but

849
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,400
Adam Curry: let me put it this
way. All right, back to Rachel.

850
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,740
If Rachel said, Go to
podcast.rachelmano.com, and

851
00:56:56,740 --> 00:57:03,840
you're sent to a a Rachel world
that is based on true fans. So

852
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,220
it has all the true fans
functionality, but it's just,

853
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:14,760
but everything is is built
around Rachel's world with stuff

854
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,780
that she can, quote, unquote,
control by what she puts in her

855
00:57:18,780 --> 00:57:23,240
feed, which would, you know,
require a 2.0 feed. And from

856
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,000
there, people also see, oh,
wait, I can listen to all my

857
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:31,340
podcasts here, you know. And
even if you go to it on mobile

858
00:57:31,340 --> 00:57:36,440
phone, it'll be like, Oh, well,
this is nice. I can see people,

859
00:57:36,860 --> 00:57:40,480
you know. So instead of saying,
use my app, say, point your,

860
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,680
point, your people to this, you
know, to here, and then that

861
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,700
will just become the app that
they use for that show. And then

862
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:51,580
maybe they'll start using it for
other shows, maybe other, you

863
00:57:51,580 --> 00:57:54,100
know, it's like, it's, it's a
reverse way of getting people to

864
00:57:54,100 --> 00:57:57,460
use your app. So instead of
please use my app, we show all

865
00:57:57,460 --> 00:58:01,800
podcasts in all the best
possible way. Because, I mean

866
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:07,980
curry and the keepers not on, I
not on on Apple. People don't

867
00:58:07,980 --> 00:58:11,040
care. They listen to it on the
web or whatever they do. But if

868
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,640
I sent and these are quote,
unquote unsophisticated podcast

869
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,300
listeners, a lot of them don't
even know that there's a thing

870
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:21,200
called the I know because I see
him in church. They don't even

871
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,260
know about a podcast app. No,
they don't. They know. They know

872
00:58:24,260 --> 00:58:30,380
the podcast. But I said, but we
have podpage.com and everyone

873
00:58:30,380 --> 00:58:33,080
uses that. They love it. So this
is great. We could do all kinds

874
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,340
of stuff. Now, what if you know
that? What if you can send

875
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:42,460
instead of I have to set up my
okay, just take the app out of

876
00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:44,680
the equation, because you can do
it in apps or web. Doesn't

877
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,460
matter. But what if you say,
like pod page was, I'm a big

878
00:58:48,460 --> 00:58:51,460
fan. I'm a paying member. It
cost me a lot of money, this pod

879
00:58:51,460 --> 00:58:54,220
page outfit, by the way, I saw
that bill come through, because

880
00:58:54,220 --> 00:58:55,960
I got a lot of domains mapped to
it.

881
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,260
Dave Jones: Is that? Is that
what curry and the keeper.com

882
00:58:59,740 --> 00:59:01,200
is? Yes, yeah, yeah.

883
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,940
Adam Curry: That's pod page, you
know. So what if, instead of you

884
00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:10,980
have to set up your pod page?
What if the app is pod page, and

885
00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:14,160
you send people there, and based
upon the feed it shows you that

886
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,260
page? Does that make sense? What
I'm saying? So instead

887
00:59:19,260 --> 00:59:21,440
Dave Jones: of yes, yeah, yeah,
you're, you're, you're almost

888
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,100
white labeling a full, a full
podcast app, yes,

889
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,820
Adam Curry: but just by sending
people there from from a link,

890
00:59:29,540 --> 00:59:32,060
yeah, right. So instead of you
have to go to curry

891
00:59:32,060 --> 00:59:35,540
inthekeeper.com but I spent
hours setting it up. That thing

892
00:59:35,540 --> 00:59:39,320
is a full blown app which can
also do other things for, you

893
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,220
know, for other podcasts, which
would be, you know, and then the

894
00:59:42,220 --> 00:59:47,140
whole idea is, people say, tell
their other podcast friends, the

895
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,880
podcasters, hey, if, if you
point at this thing, then it

896
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,560
changes. It becomes your world,

897
00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:58,060
Dave Jones: right? Well, that's
really what, you know. Okay,

898
00:59:58,540 --> 00:59:59,140
well, I

899
00:59:59,140 --> 01:00:01,500
Adam Curry: just ruined pod.
Page's entire business model.

900
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:03,180
But you know what I'm saying?
It's like, No,

901
01:00:03,180 --> 01:00:04,860
Dave Jones: I think you I think
they could, I think they could

902
01:00:04,860 --> 01:00:08,820
easily do become, you know, them
and true fans and these I think

903
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,940
they could become this thing
you're talking about without too

904
01:00:11,940 --> 01:00:16,020
like, they could just become
this, like, because pod page is

905
01:00:16,020 --> 01:00:20,420
essentially a podcast app, yes,
just with different but you just

906
01:00:20,420 --> 01:00:22,640
don't scroll. You just don't
scroll through a timeline.

907
01:00:23,900 --> 01:00:28,580
Adam Curry: So instead of acting
like a web page for a podcast,

908
01:00:28,580 --> 01:00:35,900
act like a podcast app. That's
what I'm saying, like and you

909
01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:38,420
can send anybody there. Now
it'll be pretty standard if you

910
01:00:38,420 --> 01:00:43,600
don't have 2.0 tags, but if you
got 2.0 tags, oh, man. Imagine

911
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,480
all that. Imagine what a cool
app that would be. And I'm a

912
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,300
little enamored by, you know,
some of the gesture stuff that

913
01:00:49,300 --> 01:00:51,760
I've seen you working on. It's
like, oh, I can just swipe back

914
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,480
and forth. It's like, it's rock
solid. This actually feels more

915
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,960
solid than some apps I use,
like, Oh, this is good. Boom,

916
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,520
boom, boom. Very responsive.

917
01:01:01,660 --> 01:01:03,060
Dave Jones: Well, this is
something that I've been

918
01:01:03,060 --> 01:01:07,200
thinking about because of that
as well. Is when I saw what,

919
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:14,100
when I saw what Sam had written,
I get it and I think he's I

920
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:21,800
think he's right. People don't
like a lot of people don't like

921
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:26,300
PWAs, and I think that, I think
there's a lot of reasons for

922
01:01:26,300 --> 01:01:32,720
that. I think it's because
there's sort of an inherent

923
01:01:33,380 --> 01:01:37,400
rubber banding that kind of
happens with web with websites

924
01:01:38,660 --> 01:01:43,960
Nate, native apps. Native apps
feel solid because they don't

925
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:50,560
have left to right wonkiness.
Yes, yep. The the problem the

926
01:01:50,860 --> 01:01:55,600
the inherent problem with mobile
browsers and putting something

927
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:00,540
on a mobile web page is that
there's many different ways that

928
01:02:00,540 --> 01:02:04,800
you can make that thing scroll
in ways that you don't want it

929
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:10,320
to. Yes, yeah, for sure, that
happens. It breaks the illusion

930
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,980
of it being an app. And now you
look, now you feel like you're,

931
01:02:14,220 --> 01:02:16,680
you're no now you feel like
you're no longer in an app. You

932
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,200
feel like you're reading a PDF
on your phone, and you have to,

933
01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:23,960
you have to scroll to find the
button, and it just, it's sort

934
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,840
of whole it really throws you
out of the whole illusion. I

935
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,820
think that's the biggest problem
with PWAs and web page based

936
01:02:31,820 --> 01:02:36,260
apps is that issue. You can get
around a lot of it, but you

937
01:02:36,260 --> 01:02:40,780
can't fully get out of it. And
then right at it the worst

938
01:02:40,780 --> 01:02:44,560
moment when you're trying to go
to tap on something. You tap a

939
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:48,160
little too low and it brings up
the address bar. Yeah? You know

940
01:02:48,820 --> 01:02:56,440
now, now chrome electron did a
great job of solving this by

941
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,120
just removing all web browsers
Chrome. Yeah, right, yeah.

942
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:05,520
There's no more chrome at all.
It's just purely a empty window,

943
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,180
and you put in it what you want,
right? That helps a lot, but

944
01:03:09,180 --> 01:03:14,580
there's no equivalent of that on
the PDA, PWA. Try to be that,

945
01:03:14,580 --> 01:03:17,280
but they don't. It just don't,
right? So

946
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,560
Adam Curry: stop trying to be an
app that people are supposed to

947
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:23,600
treat like an app, because
they're not fooled. It's not an

948
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,840
app. I got it. I didn't go to
the App Store. It's not an app,

949
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,840
whatever, whatever, the whatever
you're trying to pull on me.

950
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,660
It's not an app. So instead of
that, just pull them into a

951
01:03:32,660 --> 01:03:33,260
world.

952
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,480
Dave Jones: Yeah, apps don't
have sort of real native apps,

953
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,260
whether it's on the on the phone
or on the desktop, a real,

954
01:03:41,260 --> 01:03:44,140
actual native app, don't have
any they don't have a notion of

955
01:03:44,140 --> 01:03:47,980
a viewport, right? You know,
you're there's no viewport that

956
01:03:47,980 --> 01:03:50,620
you're peering into, and you can
move all around in there. So

957
01:03:50,620 --> 01:03:56,440
they that once you eliminate
that sort of visual wonkiness,

958
01:03:57,580 --> 01:04:01,740
if you take if it wasn't for
that, I can tell you, based on

959
01:04:01,740 --> 01:04:03,780
the last few weeks of
development that I've been

960
01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:09,120
doing, a web browser is a very
not, it's pretty nice. Like it

961
01:04:09,540 --> 01:04:14,100
the one, here's one great thing
about a web browser is the media

962
01:04:14,100 --> 01:04:16,200
continues to play even when the
phone screens

963
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,740
Adam Curry: off. Yes, no
kidding, you hit

964
01:04:19,740 --> 01:04:22,760
Dave Jones: play on a on a piece
of content, yeah, just work. And

965
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:23,720
that thing just, it just

966
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,340
Adam Curry: works unless it's
YouTube and you're not a

967
01:04:25,340 --> 01:04:27,620
subscriber, but that's a
different issue. Exactly

968
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,440
Dave Jones: in that way, it's so
much better than the native app

969
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:36,740
of YouTube, and so I think,
like, I understand, I fully

970
01:04:36,740 --> 01:04:39,680
understand why he's doing it,
and it's probably the right

971
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,260
thing to do. Well,

972
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,540
Adam Curry: is it though? Is it
though? Because he has all the

973
01:04:43,540 --> 01:04:47,740
elements of what I'm talking
about. He has it all. Sam, don't

974
01:04:47,740 --> 01:04:54,280
give up yet. He has all the
elements. But like all apps,

975
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:59,200
he's trying to be, use me. Use
me for all your podcasts. I'm

976
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:03,600
just saying. Why? Right? Why not
just let the publishers tell

977
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,340
people, hey, use this or click,
click on, you know, this C name

978
01:05:08,820 --> 01:05:12,720
that I have, or type this into
your browser, Adam Curry's

979
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:19,860
world.com then it automatically
shuttles you to this place. And

980
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,460
that's a world. It's not an app.

981
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,380
Dave Jones: It's See, he's, he's
almost there already, really,

982
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:27,860
yes,

983
01:05:27,860 --> 01:05:31,100
Adam Curry: he has, particularly
with activity streams, he's got

984
01:05:31,100 --> 01:05:34,580
all these things that he can
start to correlate that people

985
01:05:34,580 --> 01:05:39,200
are already doing interacting
with the same content. Now

986
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,480
you're talking about something
that is really different, and

987
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,960
make the whole so don't promote
other pods. Don't promote your

988
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:53,200
forget about your trying to be a
podcast that try to be a world

989
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,960
for that one show that someone
just went to

990
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,740
Dave Jones: like. If I Okay, so
if I go to true fans, I just

991
01:05:59,740 --> 01:06:05,220
went to truefans.fm and I'm
going to click on buzzcast. What

992
01:06:05,220 --> 01:06:12,360
I come up with is this page that
looks almost like pod page with

993
01:06:12,420 --> 01:06:16,980
Buzz cat with the big buzzcast
logo. It's got the hosts of the

994
01:06:16,980 --> 01:06:22,040
show. They're, they're, it's
there,

995
01:06:22,340 --> 01:06:24,620
Adam Curry: I have to sign in
again. I'm getting tired. I

996
01:06:24,620 --> 01:06:27,080
don't understand why I always
have to sign in. Is that,

997
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,120
Dave Jones: is that I'm on the
brow, I'm on the desktop

998
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:29,480
browser,

999
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,600
Adam Curry: but I'm on the
desktop browser too. That always

1000
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,900
makes me sign in again. I don't
understand. And of course, I use

1001
01:06:35,900 --> 01:06:38,240
the password manager, so it's
not something I can easily

1002
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:39,380
remember. It

1003
01:06:39,380 --> 01:06:41,440
Dave Jones: wanted me to, but I
just clicked away from it, oh,

1004
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,140
just so I could get in and see
the page, and then see, now, as

1005
01:06:44,140 --> 01:06:48,820
you see all, I see all the I see
all the stuff on the page. If

1006
01:06:48,820 --> 01:06:53,320
this, this feels like I'm on the
buzzcast website, because

1007
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,440
there's this nice art, and
there's all these things there.

1008
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,100
There's the pod role, there's
activity. I mean, this could be

1009
01:07:00,460 --> 01:07:07,200
white labeled into just
buzzworld. Yes, like you're

1010
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:07,920
talking about,

1011
01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:11,640
Adam Curry: yeah, and I'm not
sure how I can control it as as

1012
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:20,540
as the buzzworld as the buzzword
publisher, but it's right now

1013
01:07:20,540 --> 01:07:24,080
you're seeing become a fan. So I
should already be a fan. You

1014
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,960
know? It's like, I'm in, I'm
already in, and they should be

1015
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,780
showing me a whole bunch of
things. And this still has the,

1016
01:07:29,780 --> 01:07:33,800
oh, now you're seeing all the
old episodes, right? Turn this

1017
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:38,180
into a world and and make it
instead of true fans at the top.

1018
01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:41,320
Make it buzz fans and buzzworld.
What? This just all that's,

1019
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:47,980
that's this, that's the, the
obvious stuff. But, you know, it

1020
01:07:47,980 --> 01:07:52,600
should already be showing me
what other things Kevin is doing

1021
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:55,240
and Jordan is doing, and it
should be showing me people who

1022
01:07:55,240 --> 01:08:00,960
are listening and it. And
instead of a a poll where people

1023
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,980
use an app to pull stuff in and
should be push buzzwords. Should

1024
01:08:04,980 --> 01:08:07,620
know they won't, because they
have their In fact, they just

1025
01:08:07,620 --> 01:08:13,560
did their own new websites. I
know I'm just, I'm becoming

1026
01:08:14,220 --> 01:08:14,940
repetitive,

1027
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,580
Dave Jones: but everything's in
the feed, you know, like, like,

1028
01:08:18,180 --> 01:08:21,020
I think, I think what you're
saying just a few tweaks, I

1029
01:08:21,020 --> 01:08:24,080
think would make this become
that thing. Yes, because all the

1030
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,720
stuff is there. It's just
arranged in sort of, like a,

1031
01:08:27,380 --> 01:08:30,560
like a, like a file, folder.
Yes, okay, here's episodes,

1032
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,340
yeah, pod roll, here's activity,
here's comments. Instead, just

1033
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,960
munge all that stuff onto the
page in a big and, you know, and

1034
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,520
maybe if make it all there.

1035
01:08:40,580 --> 01:08:42,640
Adam Curry: So if you're, if
you're coming to and from from

1036
01:08:42,940 --> 01:08:46,060
an external source, and that
external source can be

1037
01:08:46,060 --> 01:08:50,800
recognized, take it over. Take
it over. Make it. Make it

1038
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:54,820
buzzword, if you're just using
it as an app, okay, fine. But

1039
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:59,140
make it. Make it the but, man, I
would be telling people use this

1040
01:08:59,140 --> 01:09:03,660
app or go to this, go to this
URL, and it'll open it up. And

1041
01:09:03,660 --> 01:09:09,600
you got all your stuff in there,
all of it. So in a way, it's, I

1042
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:15,600
guess I am saying, be a, be a
destination that that podcasters

1043
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:22,040
push you, push people towards
and and not worry about people

1044
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:27,920
using your app for everything.
Have the podcasters say, go

1045
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:34,460
here, and then they're using
your app. I know it's just a

1046
01:09:34,460 --> 01:09:36,380
different mindset. It's
different mindset.

1047
01:09:37,100 --> 01:09:41,320
Dave Jones: You abstract away
the idea of the app. Yeah,

1048
01:09:41,440 --> 01:09:44,920
Adam Curry: yeah, I guess that's
what I'm doing. Todd. Todd

1049
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:52,480
boosts in. Welcome to level two.
Hold the line. Hey, should we

1050
01:09:52,480 --> 01:09:55,660
play a song just to clear the
palette for a second here? Yeah,

1051
01:09:55,660 --> 01:10:00,060
sure. Okay, pick this up from
the from the value verse says. I

1052
01:10:00,060 --> 01:10:02,940
was scrolling through the split
kit this morning. Thank you very

1053
01:10:02,940 --> 01:10:06,660
much. Steven B, love that work
you're doing. Brad johnner, and

1054
01:10:06,660 --> 01:10:08,340
this is free, and I watched

1055
01:10:08,340 --> 01:10:13,500
Unknown: you leaving silhouette
of all the time that we shared,

1056
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:17,280
and there's no reason for you to
turn around and come back. You.

1057
01:10:20,060 --> 01:10:24,920
I guess I knew that you grew up
to be the woman that you are. No

1058
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,140
doubt that you're leaving. I
never thought the day would come

1059
01:10:27,140 --> 01:10:30,080
so soon. But you gotta be free
walk down the path of

1060
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:34,040
uncertainty. You gotta be
leading that junk a

1061
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:47,020
gotta be leading that you're
gonna make it. You gotta be free

1062
01:10:47,020 --> 01:10:51,520
to take the chances that you
need to take. You gotta be

1063
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,320
leading that you're gonna make
you.

1064
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:17,639
I thought I saw you smiling at
me from a billboard sign. I

1065
01:11:18,299 --> 01:11:28,639
guess I'm looking just a little
too hard. Singing to me from the

1066
01:11:28,639 --> 01:11:39,199
Broadway stage. And you were a
queen man finally found her

1067
01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:42,879
star. I can't deny that you're a
dreamer, I want to spread your

1068
01:11:42,879 --> 01:11:45,879
wings and fly away forever, but
when you said goodbye, I knew

1069
01:11:45,879 --> 01:11:50,259
that you gotta be free to walk
down the path of uncertainty.

1070
01:11:50,259 --> 01:11:51,159
You gotta believe it.

1071
01:11:59,380 --> 01:12:07,680
You're gonna make it shit you
gotta be free take the chances

1072
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:13,200
that you need to take. You gotta
believe that you're gonna make

1073
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:22,380
it a chance. Still remember when
I looked into your baby blue

1074
01:12:22,380 --> 01:12:26,960
eyes. I thinking that you can be
what you want to

1075
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:32,780
be. Understand why you're so
sad, but there's a world out

1076
01:12:32,780 --> 01:12:44,620
there for me, so I must be
falling my way out, and you

1077
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:51,400
gotta be free to walk down the
path of uncertainty. You gotta

1078
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,540
be leading that you're gonna
Make it you gotta do

1079
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:40,300
Adam Curry: I hope on, I guess
that's fitting for today. You've

1080
01:13:40,300 --> 01:13:45,460
got to be free to walk the path
of uncertainty. Brad joner on

1081
01:13:45,460 --> 01:13:49,780
podcasting, 2.0 if you like that
song, go back a little bit.

1082
01:13:49,780 --> 01:13:52,720
Boost. Boost, go back in your
time. You can even pause it.

1083
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:56,380
Boost, let him know you heard
it. On podcasting, 2.0 any song

1084
01:13:56,380 --> 01:13:59,980
that has banjo and cello in the
same track is good with me.

1085
01:14:00,459 --> 01:14:03,359
Dave Jones: I'm a fan of those
things being merged together

1086
01:14:03,359 --> 01:14:05,579
into one thing. It's good.

1087
01:14:07,860 --> 01:14:10,080
Adam Curry: All right. What else
you got on your list? Just had

1088
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:11,520
to cleanse the palette of
everything.

1089
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,740
Dave Jones: I like it. Oh, did

1090
01:14:13,740 --> 01:14:16,260
Adam Curry: you do the you talk
to the Zebedee folks? Can you

1091
01:14:16,260 --> 01:14:17,040
talk about it yet?

1092
01:14:18,540 --> 01:14:21,680
Dave Jones: I can't. I can't say
a ton because they they just

1093
01:14:21,740 --> 01:14:26,300
explicit me, explicitly asked me
to hang loose about talking

1094
01:14:26,300 --> 01:14:26,660
about it.

1095
01:14:26,660 --> 01:14:29,660
Adam Curry: You're under NDA,
you're under NDA, we're

1096
01:14:29,660 --> 01:14:31,760
Dave Jones: under friend. We're
under friend. EA, not NDA,

1097
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:32,840
you're under what

1098
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:38,240
Adam Curry: do you call? What's
they call it when, when you

1099
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,600
can't release until a certain
date? What's it called

1100
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:44,080
Dave Jones: this embargo,
embargo,

1101
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,380
Adam Curry: embargo, thank you,
embargo.

1102
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,740
Dave Jones: I think I mean the
skit, the basic thumbnail

1103
01:14:50,740 --> 01:14:53,320
sketch, is pretty, I mean, it's
the same as what you laid out

1104
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:58,720
last week. There's that's pretty
much it. He's as far as, like,

1105
01:14:59,260 --> 01:15:02,520
pricing. And things like that,
and how, how that whole thing is

1106
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,880
gonna sort of fit together. Oh,
they're writing it up for us,

1107
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:10,380
right? Yeah, he already sent me
sort of a so here's what I can

1108
01:15:10,380 --> 01:15:14,640
say, that what they're doing is
like a one pager where it's

1109
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:19,260
like, Here's how. And I've got
that, I've got that page now.

1110
01:15:19,260 --> 01:15:19,800
I'm just

1111
01:15:20,700 --> 01:15:23,000
Adam Curry: embargo. You're
under an embargo. You can't, you

1112
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:24,140
can't talk about it yet.

1113
01:15:26,180 --> 01:15:29,960
Dave Jones: Yeah, so as, yes,
I'm under an soft embargo. And

1114
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:37,280
the so I'm working, I'm like,
going through the page to check,

1115
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:43,300
to check, like, kind of see how
it works. And, you know, just

1116
01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:45,700
kind of get a, get a feel for
what they've put together.

1117
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:47,920
Adam Curry: Is there technical
stuff in there? Implementation

1118
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:49,300
stuff? Yeah, oh, cool, yeah.

1119
01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:51,880
Dave Jones: It's, like, it's,
it's a really simple write up

1120
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:53,860
of, like, if you're an ad
developer and you want to

1121
01:15:53,860 --> 01:15:57,520
integrate, you do this, this,
this and this, and it's nice,

1122
01:15:57,639 --> 01:16:00,699
Adam Curry: so simple how to do
MD, readme.md,

1123
01:16:02,500 --> 01:16:04,920
Dave Jones: and so he said, he
said, with the like, sometime

1124
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,980
this week, they'll, he said,
they just want to clear the last

1125
01:16:07,980 --> 01:16:14,280
stuff, to the last bits, to make
sure that that it's all doable.

1126
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:18,960
Because it sounded like, it
sounds like what they it's

1127
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:22,280
similar to what they were
telling you about last week that

1128
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,560
they they kind of had all the
pieces in place. They just

1129
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,520
needed to rearrange some things
to sort of put together a

1130
01:16:28,940 --> 01:16:34,820
podcast centric solution, right?
And they've kind of got that,

1131
01:16:34,820 --> 01:16:37,760
but they just need to make sure
that, that it's what, that it

1132
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,720
all fits with, like, you know,
their legal stuff, and got it

1133
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,120
because they're because they
have the money licenses and

1134
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:46,120
everything. So right, as soon as
they find that out and give us

1135
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:49,180
the thumbs up, then, you know,
we can, like, put out this one

1136
01:16:49,180 --> 01:16:53,800
pager, and it's supposed, it's
gonna, yeah, it's pretty simple.

1137
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:54,640
No, nice,

1138
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,160
Adam Curry: nice. Yeah, they're
nice people, and they really

1139
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,840
believe in value for value.
That's what I like about them. I

1140
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:03,780
Dave Jones: had a it was a very
enjoyable call. Yeah, there

1141
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:04,380
they,

1142
01:17:04,500 --> 01:17:07,320
Adam Curry: I guess Katie was on
the call. They get it, yeah, for

1143
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:07,620
sure.

1144
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:12,120
Dave Jones: Yeah. It was, yeah.
It wasn't all dudes, exactly.

1145
01:17:12,540 --> 01:17:15,540
Adam Curry: It wasn't all dudes.
Oh, that's, that's the elements

1146
01:17:15,540 --> 01:17:19,440
of a good call. Breath of fresh
air. Yes, yes, indeed, indeed.

1147
01:17:19,440 --> 01:17:21,020
Dave Jones: No, no, but no, it's
gonna be, it's gonna be, it's

1148
01:17:21,020 --> 01:17:23,900
gonna be good. As soon as I get
the thumbs up, we'll, you know,

1149
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:24,980
I'll go do it on the show.

1150
01:17:25,219 --> 01:17:27,079
Adam Curry: Yeah, excellent. Um,

1151
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:32,060
Dave Jones: the, AG, see, the
aggregator went down, I guess.

1152
01:17:32,060 --> 01:17:32,480
So neither,

1153
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,479
Adam Curry: yeah, that was, uh,
that was, so, here's the

1154
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:42,639
sequence of events. Um, so you
had the Bitcoin and podcast

1155
01:17:43,179 --> 01:17:46,539
that, turns out there's a lot of
podcasts with the words Bitcoin

1156
01:17:46,539 --> 01:17:53,859
and, and, and died, yeah, wasn't
updating. And so, you know, I

1157
01:17:53,859 --> 01:17:57,459
saw the Bat Signal go out on, on
the mastodon, like, Okay, let me

1158
01:17:57,459 --> 01:18:02,339
see what I can do. And I do a
refresh, or I did a scan, didn't

1159
01:18:02,339 --> 01:18:05,219
scan. I'm like, Okay, well, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna hit the

1160
01:18:05,219 --> 01:18:10,499
refresh. Are you sure? Yes, and,
and still wasn't up to him like

1161
01:18:10,559 --> 01:18:14,759
this. And I'm like, you know, so
I start looking in his feed, you

1162
01:18:14,759 --> 01:18:18,119
know, me, I'm seeing if there's
anything weird in there. I can't

1163
01:18:18,119 --> 01:18:21,439
see anything. So I figured
something had broken. And I

1164
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:26,539
guess something had broken. Yep,
had broke. Yeah, something had

1165
01:18:26,539 --> 01:18:27,919
broke. It

1166
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:32,840
Dave Jones: for sure, broke in,
not in a fun way, because, like,

1167
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,680
I was, I was at the rock
climbing gym when, when I saw

1168
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:38,660
this come through, I was just, I

1169
01:18:38,660 --> 01:18:40,240
Adam Curry: was just, was
hanging, you're hanging on a

1170
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:42,640
rock looking at your phone.
Seriously? Dave Jones,

1171
01:18:44,740 --> 01:18:49,840
Dave Jones: yeah, no, um, some,
I'm between climbs, and I'm just

1172
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,740
kind of scrolling the mastodon
to keep track of things and and

1173
01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:56,620
I saw this, and so I went, of
course, I go over to the API

1174
01:18:56,620 --> 01:19:00,900
site, hit the hit the reset on
that feed, and just like he was

1175
01:19:00,900 --> 01:19:05,520
like, now there's no episodes,
yeah, there's no scan. Oh, crap.

1176
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:09,600
So, oh man. So, you know, when I
got home, wait, did

1177
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:12,660
Adam Curry: you know I'm
disappointed you did an SSH from

1178
01:19:12,660 --> 01:19:14,340
your phone. I mean, that's why

1179
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,720
Dave Jones: so many good SSH
apps on the iPhone,

1180
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:20,900
Adam Curry: Mini termics. I

1181
01:19:20,900 --> 01:19:23,600
Dave Jones: use termix. Can you
imagine doing that on an iPhone

1182
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:24,560
mini No?

1183
01:19:24,620 --> 01:19:26,000
Adam Curry: No, that would be
awful.

1184
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:31,040
Dave Jones: And just it teaches
me that I should, how dare I be

1185
01:19:31,100 --> 01:19:34,580
at the gym without a laptop in
my bag? You know? Seriously, you

1186
01:19:34,580 --> 01:19:42,580
know. But, but I got in there
and some German podcast had put

1187
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:48,580
a Unicode character in their
URL. And what was crashing was

1188
01:19:48,580 --> 01:19:54,220
the insert on the My seat was
the MySQL insert. So the way the

1189
01:19:54,220 --> 01:19:59,860
aggregator works is it, it runs.
It collects all the, all of the.

1190
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:08,280
Uh, feed updates into one big
batch, sequel batch insert, and

1191
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:12,960
then executes that to update,
like, you know, potentially 2000

1192
01:20:13,380 --> 01:20:19,260
feeds at once. And so the
insert, the insert crashed, and

1193
01:20:19,260 --> 01:20:21,680
it was one, it was this one
character, and it

1194
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,540
Adam Curry: would, it would
bring down the whole aggregator,

1195
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,640
when, when, when it, when it,
when it

1196
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,220
Dave Jones: crashed. No, it just
crashed the process. And so then

1197
01:20:28,220 --> 01:20:31,760
it would start again. Oh, and
try that one. It would try it

1198
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:34,460
was stuck on that same feed. I
think, I

1199
01:20:34,460 --> 01:20:36,380
Adam Curry: think we just need
to cut Germany off.

1200
01:20:37,940 --> 01:20:39,980
Dave Jones: I already did. I
blocked him. Oh, no, yeah,

1201
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:49,540
Adam Curry: yeah. If equals, gr,
D, E, yes, then block, yeah,

1202
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,320
Dave Jones: yeah. But one, one
bad at Germany didn't bring

1203
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,840
enough for the whole classroom,
so everybody gets punished,

1204
01:20:58,900 --> 01:21:02,700
yeah, but it, but it's, I've got
a worker, I've got a workaround

1205
01:21:02,700 --> 01:21:05,040
in there now. And so we're, what
character

1206
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:06,960
Adam Curry: was it and what and
how does that wind up in the

1207
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:08,700
feed URL? Well, you know

1208
01:21:08,700 --> 01:21:11,820
Dave Jones: how it is? I mean,
you have no idea like this, you

1209
01:21:11,820 --> 01:21:14,460
know how Unicode is? You look at
and you're like, what is that?

1210
01:21:14,460 --> 01:21:18,300
Right? Right? Because there's 8
million Unicode characters, and

1211
01:21:18,540 --> 01:21:22,820
half of them are, like, not even
visible, you know, like, they're

1212
01:21:22,820 --> 01:21:25,760
like, control characters. You
know, this one means this

1213
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:30,140
character. Like, this character
means, like, go back three

1214
01:21:30,140 --> 01:21:33,320
spaces and you're like, what?
Huh, like, it's just not even

1215
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,800
like a real character. And so I
couldn't even tell. So someone

1216
01:21:36,860 --> 01:21:41,560
Adam Curry: probably typed in a
URL manually and hit the

1217
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:45,400
backspace or something, and
sounds like a manual input

1218
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:45,880
issue?

1219
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:50,320
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think, if I
think, if I wonder what

1220
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:51,700
Adam Curry: the generator was
for it,

1221
01:21:53,920 --> 01:22:01,920
Dave Jones: the generator was
pod love. I think I'm pretty

1222
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,500
sure I saved the feed, but I
haven't gotten back to it yet.

1223
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:11,280
Pretty sure it was a pod love
feed, interesting and which I

1224
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:15,720
did not think pod love supported
funky characters in their URL. I

1225
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:21,020
mean, like, technically, I don't
think there's any spec anywhere

1226
01:22:21,020 --> 01:22:26,000
that exists that says you can't
do that in a URL, in a URL, but

1227
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,140
you You're asking for trouble if
you do it clearly,

1228
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:35,120
Adam Curry: the pod sage, stop
it. Yeah,

1229
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:39,260
Dave Jones: it was a stupid
oversight on my part. I should

1230
01:22:39,260 --> 01:22:41,620
have, I mean, it's been running
for four years. I

1231
01:22:41,620 --> 01:22:43,600
Adam Curry: mean, never happened
before,

1232
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:47,680
Dave Jones: millions and
millions of feeds, and so I just

1233
01:22:47,740 --> 01:22:51,280
it was, yeah, it was, sometimes
you just don't know what you

1234
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:53,920
don't know to quote until we
know it. Rumsfeld, yeah,

1235
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:56,860
Adam Curry: yeah. Well, thanks
for fixing it. That's

1236
01:22:56,860 --> 01:23:02,040
appreciated. I'm my nightmare
is, Dave Jones is no longer on

1237
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:02,820
this planet.

1238
01:23:04,740 --> 01:23:07,680
Dave Jones: That's kind of my
nightmare too. Well, there's

1239
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:10,800
Adam Curry: that. But think of
the podcasts.

1240
01:23:14,100 --> 01:23:16,260
Dave Jones: Well, somebody,
please, think of the podcast.

1241
01:23:16,500 --> 01:23:18,960
Adam Curry: We need a we need a
succession plan.

1242
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,640
Dave Jones: I see key man
insurance is that what? No, not

1243
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:23,360
the insurance

1244
01:23:23,420 --> 01:23:26,600
Adam Curry: we need, like a, you
know, a dead man's switch if you

1245
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,440
don't hit it after X amount of
time, like a, you know, like a

1246
01:23:33,380 --> 01:23:37,280
multi SIG wallet. You know, it
has to release passwords, at

1247
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:39,080
least to Alex gates or
something,

1248
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,380
Dave Jones: a dead man switch
goes to Alex,

1249
01:23:44,860 --> 01:23:47,680
Adam Curry: somebody. Why not?
You could send it to me, but All

1250
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:49,900
right, here you go. What am I
gonna do with it?

1251
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:55,000
Dave Jones: No, the dead man
switch goes to Alex, and he goes

1252
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:59,680
to three people. Goes to Alex,
Eric PP and Archie over at pod

1253
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:03,840
friend. I mean, pod verse, okay,
yeah, those, those guys will

1254
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,660
handle it, okay. And Spurlock
and goes to all four of those

1255
01:24:06,660 --> 01:24:11,700
guys, just saying, if Dave
doesn't SSC in once a week, and

1256
01:24:11,820 --> 01:24:15,660
just, yeah, the Dave's dead
credentials, or

1257
01:24:17,580 --> 01:24:20,180
Adam Curry: we just need a way
to do wellness check so we can

1258
01:24:20,180 --> 01:24:21,680
see if you know he's alive.
Okay,

1259
01:24:21,740 --> 01:24:25,220
Dave Jones: sorry. James needed
a wellness check. His feed went

1260
01:24:25,340 --> 01:24:25,820
that was

1261
01:24:25,820 --> 01:24:27,800
Adam Curry: a wall. That was, do
we ever figure out what

1262
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:28,880
happened? His

1263
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:30,800
Dave Jones: server was crashing,
is what he said.

1264
01:24:31,820 --> 01:24:34,940
Adam Curry: That sucks. I've
never had that where you wake up

1265
01:24:34,940 --> 01:24:39,260
one morning like, wait a minute,
there's no there's no pod news.

1266
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:43,120
What am I going to do? Wait,
there's no pod. There's no pod

1267
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:47,320
news anywhere. It's not, how
does this what? Yeah,

1268
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,000
Dave Jones: it's not just an
episode missing. The whole

1269
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,520
thing's gone. It's like, James
doesn't even exist anymore. It

1270
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:53,260
felt like, and I thought he just
decided

1271
01:24:53,260 --> 01:24:55,600
Adam Curry: to quit, yeah, rage
quit. Like, I'm getting out of

1272
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:57,340
the business. I'm gonna go
fishing.

1273
01:24:57,940 --> 01:25:00,120
Dave Jones: Spotify. Send him
one too many. Press Release. He

1274
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:08,880
says that, Danny's like, I screw
it, yeah, let's see what else I

1275
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:16,680
got. Actually, I kind of need to
be conscious of time. I've got

1276
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:23,300
kind of a soft out, okay, around
215 so we might want to go ahead

1277
01:25:23,300 --> 01:25:23,660
and, oh yeah,

1278
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:26,240
Adam Curry: we can do that.
Sure. Oh, short board meeting.

1279
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:30,380
Boy, All right, everybody, yeah,
less options for you this week.

1280
01:25:30,440 --> 01:25:34,640
No warrants. Yeah, this the, you
know, nature, the nature, the

1281
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:39,020
nature of the IRS Code, yes, I
hear you. Yeah, no problem.

1282
01:25:39,020 --> 01:25:42,640
Well, let me read the boost that
came in while we were yapping

1283
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:48,880
away. Br, 1000 SATs pod stage
podcasting, salty crayon, 404.

1284
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,500
There's an unholy amount of
bitcoin podcast saying the exact

1285
01:25:53,500 --> 01:25:56,800
same talking points, less
parrots, more music. Podcasts,

1286
01:25:57,820 --> 01:26:02,700
salty crayon, he's very regular
with this podcast as well, which

1287
01:26:02,700 --> 01:26:08,040
is great. But love the love the
upbeat. Uh, 4567, from Dr Scott.

1288
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,400
He says, free by Brad John, a
nice tuner. John the podcasting.

1289
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:15,360
2.0 podcast, good stuff. There's
the 20,000 stats from Todd.

1290
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:18,240
Thank you, Todd. He said,
Welcome to level two. Hold the

1291
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:24,680
line. Go podcasting. Podcasting.
Another salty crayon. Short Row

1292
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:28,640
of ducks. 222, f5, jiggle the
handle. Always have this running

1293
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:35,480
scissors handy. There's br again
with the rss.com. Loves pod.

1294
01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:39,980
Ping. Dreb Scott, 12345,
boosting. Oh, this was doing the

1295
01:26:39,980 --> 01:26:42,980
pre stream. Heard you on the pre
stream for podcasting. 2.0 pod,

1296
01:26:42,980 --> 01:26:46,660
point zero podcast. Good stuff.
Another 2345, from dreb, going

1297
01:26:46,660 --> 01:26:49,780
to the artist, which is great.
Thank you very much. And Mike

1298
01:26:49,780 --> 01:26:54,280
Dell, who was listening 1701
Star Trek, boost. And he said,

1299
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:57,940
Wow, I got on the pre show for a
change. So yes, I start around

1300
01:26:57,940 --> 01:27:02,400
10 after 12 our time, and just
play some songs, a little disc

1301
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:07,260
jockeying, which is always fun,
hitting the post, trying to hit

1302
01:27:07,260 --> 01:27:11,580
that post. After 45 years, I
still can still do it. Can still

1303
01:27:11,580 --> 01:27:13,200
do it. What you got there to

1304
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,660
Dave Jones: do that in your
sleep? I got we got the pod

1305
01:27:15,660 --> 01:27:18,840
verse as a PayPal for 50 bucks.

1306
01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:22,700
Adam Curry: Thank you very much.
That is highly appreciated. Yes,

1307
01:27:22,700 --> 01:27:23,060
waiting,

1308
01:27:23,060 --> 01:27:25,940
Dave Jones: highly anticipating
pod verse next gen. That's

1309
01:27:25,940 --> 01:27:26,300
right,

1310
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:30,260
Adam Curry: by the way, by the
way, yep, you know, though, this

1311
01:27:30,260 --> 01:27:32,960
is a thought I just had, you
know, Mitch was saying, hey,

1312
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,420
it's going to be a while for us
to get the app done. But, you

1313
01:27:35,420 --> 01:27:41,440
know, he was looking at, you
know, serving up an API, like a

1314
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:46,480
backup or an alternative source.
Why, you know, consider the

1315
01:27:46,480 --> 01:27:50,080
ideas we were talking about
earlier. Maybe that's something

1316
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:50,860
you guys can do.

1317
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:55,840
Dave Jones: Yeah, and, and I,
and I encourage, you know, I

1318
01:27:55,840 --> 01:28:00,540
encourage anybody wants to run,
you know, some sort of API. I

1319
01:28:00,540 --> 01:28:03,900
encourage you. I mean, if you
could, I would say, like, if

1320
01:28:03,900 --> 01:28:10,200
somebody like Mitch or anybody
else wants to run an API. I

1321
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:13,620
mean, I don't want to tell
anybody what to do, but it would

1322
01:28:13,620 --> 01:28:19,800
be kind of cool if, if it
mimicked sort of our API format,

1323
01:28:20,580 --> 01:28:26,180
so that it could be sort of like
a backup, sure, or, you know,

1324
01:28:26,180 --> 01:28:30,260
like, if we're, if we're kind of
both, if we're all doing the

1325
01:28:30,260 --> 01:28:33,020
same sort of thing, I don't know
that would be kind of cool,

1326
01:28:33,020 --> 01:28:34,940
because we, you know, we've
always said we want, you know,

1327
01:28:34,940 --> 01:28:38,600
we want people to replicate the
index for sure, as things for

1328
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:42,340
sure, but, but then you Do, I
guess you just don't want to

1329
01:28:42,340 --> 01:28:45,340
have two people, for people to
have to learn new like, I have

1330
01:28:45,340 --> 01:28:46,660
two different APIs,

1331
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,060
Adam Curry: right? Yeah, the
same,

1332
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,840
Dave Jones: yeah. That would be
a that would be hard. Um,

1333
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:57,100
anyway, it sounds like what I
mean, they're spending a lot of

1334
01:28:57,100 --> 01:28:59,440
time on their database schema.
It sounds like it's going to be

1335
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:02,580
really cool. I can't wait to see
it. We got some boosts. Oh, I

1336
01:29:02,580 --> 01:29:08,040
see we got McDermott six. I
don't know McDermott, that's a

1337
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:13,320
new one. And McDermott 64444,
through true fans says listing

1338
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:16,680
on a 1.0 app because I lose
signal in the woods when I run.

1339
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:20,040
But had to pull over to give you
a standing zero for this spot on

1340
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,720
for the spot on commentary about
the media. No, no, a standing O,

1341
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:24,200
not zero.

1342
01:29:24,980 --> 01:29:29,180
Adam Curry: Standing zero.
Standing O, a standing zero.

1343
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:31,940
Hey, I got a standing zero at
that conference. Awesome.

1344
01:29:32,780 --> 01:29:33,500
Standing

1345
01:29:33,500 --> 01:29:35,840
Dave Jones: O for the spot on
commentary about on the media

1346
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:41,500
and that that's always, always a
fun Hey, listen. Mike Dale,

1347
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:46,840
1701, Star Trek boost through
fountain. He says, yes, it's

1348
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:56,860
Spotify. Okay. Be Dinty. BB,
dint see 1701, oh, there's a

1349
01:29:56,860 --> 01:29:57,700
Star Trek boost.

1350
01:29:57,760 --> 01:29:59,560
Adam Curry: Do we? Do we know?
Be dinsey. Do.

1351
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,400
Dave Jones: I don't know. Be
dense. I'm gonna defragmented.

1352
01:30:06,300 --> 01:30:09,000
Adam Curry: Welcome to the club.
Be densey through

1353
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:12,180
Dave Jones: true fans. Another
true fans boost. Glad Do you

1354
01:30:12,180 --> 01:30:16,620
have the comment? Federation
working? Sam, very nice. Cool,

1355
01:30:16,620 --> 01:30:22,040
cool, cool. See what else we
got. Gene bean, 2222 also three.

1356
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:26,300
True fans, Dave, I'm sure you
have been through this before,

1357
01:30:26,300 --> 01:30:28,640
but can you tell me the
requirements of the podcast

1358
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:31,580
index database, not how it's
implemented today, but what it

1359
01:30:31,580 --> 01:30:34,640
needs to accomplish, asking,
because I'd like to run it by

1360
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:37,280
some co workers who have some
pretty crazy experience with

1361
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:42,220
high performance databases
requirements. I mean, you know,

1362
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:44,920
Adam Curry: patience,

1363
01:30:46,540 --> 01:30:47,860
Dave Jones: patience is a
requirement.

1364
01:30:48,460 --> 01:30:49,480
Adam Curry: I would say so.

1365
01:30:50,860 --> 01:30:56,920
Dave Jones: I mean, you know,
that's a hard thing to guess. I

1366
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:00,240
would need somebody like,
probably, like Macintosh to kind

1367
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:05,640
of tell me, or Archie to tell me
what that would be. But, I mean,

1368
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:10,080
I would have to boil it down to,
I'll give you a better answer on

1369
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,480
the next show. I would have to
boil it down to, like,

1370
01:31:12,480 --> 01:31:16,980
transactions per second, a
number of no not just for all

1371
01:31:16,980 --> 01:31:20,360
transactions. But I would have
to say the biggest bottleneck is

1372
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:22,520
inserts, right

1373
01:31:22,699 --> 01:31:25,639
Adam Curry: as we discuss even I
know that now, whenever I'm out

1374
01:31:25,639 --> 01:31:28,879
with my buddies talking database
stuff like, how about those

1375
01:31:28,879 --> 01:31:33,079
inserts? I know the table locks
are nuts.

1376
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:35,660
Dave Jones: Rachel maddows entry
point

1377
01:31:38,540 --> 01:31:41,260
Adam Curry: number for Rachel
maddows entry point, which by

1378
01:31:41,260 --> 01:31:45,760
itself, is just very odd term,
not a show title. But no, no,

1379
01:31:45,820 --> 01:31:47,020
not a show title.

1380
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:51,400
Dave Jones: Yeah, I can get you
like, I would have to say, I'll

1381
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:54,880
have to come up with a number of
like, updates and inserts per

1382
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:59,920
second, and I'll get that for
you in the next show. We got

1383
01:31:59,920 --> 01:32:04,140
McDermott six again, 4444
listening on one. Oh, that's,

1384
01:32:04,260 --> 01:32:06,480
that's a double. He can give us
a double boost. Oh,

1385
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:08,339
Adam Curry: thank you. Kyron,

1386
01:32:09,660 --> 01:32:11,580
Dave Jones: through satchel.
Richards, 1111, through

1387
01:32:11,580 --> 01:32:14,400
fountain. He says, wow, there's
some really amazing music making

1388
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:17,340
its way into V for V feels like
the quality and, dare I say,

1389
01:32:17,340 --> 01:32:18,180
diversity.

1390
01:32:18,300 --> 01:32:21,740
Adam Curry: Oh no, oh no, oh no,
not the D word. Heard

1391
01:32:21,740 --> 01:32:28,460
Dave Jones: it on podcasting 2.0
very nice. See you got gene

1392
01:32:28,460 --> 01:32:32,840
Everett, 5000 stats through
fountain. Anyone else hate that?

1393
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:37,040
Fountain went full nostr. Now
I'm not following half my old

1394
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,920
peeps, plus new version keeps
glitching like it's two years

1395
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:44,500
ago. Just me, ooh, I don't know.
Well, I know Oscar did a big

1396
01:32:44,500 --> 01:32:46,780
update. Yeah, no, it's a lot of
stuff, yeah.

1397
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:49,780
Adam Curry: I mean this, it's
always hard. I applaud what,

1398
01:32:49,900 --> 01:32:53,980
what Oscar is doing. You know,
he took a real bold move. Said,

1399
01:32:53,980 --> 01:32:59,500
Okay, I'm going to serve this
community and make it available

1400
01:32:59,500 --> 01:33:03,840
to others if they want to come
in, it's and so, you know, I'm

1401
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:08,280
sure he knew that he was going
to alienate some people in some

1402
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:12,600
ways, that just happened. So I
applaud that kind of, that kind

1403
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:13,440
of risk taking.

1404
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:17,820
Dave Jones: Is it doing? Am I
misunderstanding or is it

1405
01:33:18,420 --> 01:33:22,700
doesn't this eventually resolve
itself when, when everybody's

1406
01:33:23,180 --> 01:33:27,140
like, switches to just get an
it's not like, if you're in

1407
01:33:27,140 --> 01:33:33,560
Fountain, it's not like you have
to be on nostr No fountain is

1408
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:36,380
just, they've just switched
their internal messaging format

1409
01:33:36,380 --> 01:33:39,380
to be that. But that does, that
shouldn't affect you. No. It

1410
01:33:39,380 --> 01:33:43,720
Adam Curry: affects what you see
in your home feed. Okay, so when

1411
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:47,860
you open the app now, you're
seeing a lot of nostr messages,

1412
01:33:47,860 --> 01:33:49,300
which is heavy Bitcoin.

1413
01:33:50,380 --> 01:33:52,720
Dave Jones: Okay, so you're
seeing nostr messages come into

1414
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:55,540
your fountain fee from outside
of the fountain universe.

1415
01:33:55,660 --> 01:33:57,760
Adam Curry: I don't know where
it's coming from. Well, let me

1416
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:00,220
just see. Let me just check
right now, because I subscribe

1417
01:34:00,220 --> 01:34:05,340
to all kinds of stuff in
Fountain. And let me see what I

1418
01:34:05,340 --> 01:34:11,100
see when I go to the home
screen. I'm just taking a moment

1419
01:34:11,100 --> 01:34:20,180
to load. Okay, so I see guys
roundtable Bitcoin and, uh, uh,

1420
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:30,620
well, homesteading, oh, maybe
it's changed. None of your

1421
01:34:30,620 --> 01:34:33,320
business. The the soul

1422
01:34:37,100 --> 01:34:39,620
Dave Jones: chat said it shows
anything with a fountain or wave

1423
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:41,680
or wave like link from nostr.

1424
01:34:44,020 --> 01:34:47,320
Adam Curry: It's actually it's
gotten less noisy, but you know

1425
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:53,260
so what I did, and this is
probably my fault, I use my

1426
01:34:53,260 --> 01:34:59,020
existing nostr credentials, so
whatever I was following on,

1427
01:34:59,020 --> 01:35:03,360
nostr is now. Going to start
showing up. So I yeah, what? I

1428
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:06,060
don't know. I don't know what it
looks like if you come in with

1429
01:35:06,060 --> 01:35:11,400
a, if with a fresh, uh, noster
ID, so which is just, I just

1430
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:13,800
realized that now it's like, Oh,
I know all these people. Why do

1431
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:15,300
I know these people? Oh, okay,

1432
01:35:16,440 --> 01:35:18,780
Dave Jones: I haven't done so
here's where I'm at when I when

1433
01:35:18,780 --> 01:35:23,840
I saw the change, I stopped, and
I haven't done anything yet. And

1434
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:29,540
and so when I just fired it back
up, I when I just, when I just

1435
01:35:29,540 --> 01:35:31,880
fired it up, and now what I get
is a message at the top saying,

1436
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:35,540
connecting, connect noster for
cross app Activity. Activity on

1437
01:35:35,540 --> 01:35:38,300
fountain is now powered by
noster. Create a nostr account

1438
01:35:38,300 --> 01:35:41,800
or connect an existing account
to interact with other users,

1439
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,980
right? And I get and I get two
options. I get connect nostr

1440
01:35:44,980 --> 01:35:48,880
button, and I get another link
that says, What is noster. So

1441
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:54,640
if, if I hit Connect nostr, I
get to another page that says,

1442
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:58,000
connect an existing nostra
profile or create a new profile.

1443
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:04,800
And so here's what like, here's
what I wanted to happen. What I

1444
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:08,460
wanted to happen was that
fountain would auto create a new

1445
01:36:08,460 --> 01:36:12,840
nostr profile for me that
already had all of my previous

1446
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:14,520
fountain account information in
it.

1447
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,640
Adam Curry: Yeah. So if you
click on your profile, find your

1448
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,360
followers, find people you
followed previously on fountain

1449
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:23,240
before connecting, Nasser to
continue seeing their activity.

1450
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,780
So I that's that may be new. I
hadn't seen that either. So you

1451
01:36:26,780 --> 01:36:30,980
can do, find my followers, and
then you can find, find my

1452
01:36:30,980 --> 01:36:32,840
followers, or find my follows.

1453
01:36:35,180 --> 01:36:37,700
Dave Jones: Find your fault,
find people who that's like all

1454
01:36:37,700 --> 01:36:40,540
listening fountain before
connecting. It's definitely

1455
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,360
Adam Curry: a lot less noisy
than it was, because I was

1456
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:46,900
seeing all of the the the
reposts and everything and so

1457
01:36:46,900 --> 01:36:51,700
that that seems to be less noisy
now. So, like, it's actually

1458
01:36:51,700 --> 01:36:53,080
pretty good. Now, let's see it,

1459
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:57,820
Dave Jones: if I would, if I
would have, if, if they had, if

1460
01:36:57,820 --> 01:37:02,640
Oscar had auto created my
profile and then said as a nostr

1461
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,880
profile, and then said, Hey, if
you want to connect your

1462
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,720
existing nostra profile, you can
do it this way. Yeah, right. I

1463
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:12,540
think right now I'm kind of
forced to make a choice that I'm

1464
01:37:12,540 --> 01:37:14,820
not sure afraid to make,

1465
01:37:14,820 --> 01:37:19,200
Adam Curry: yes, and I made it.
And initially was difficult, but

1466
01:37:19,860 --> 01:37:22,700
I don't know, no, but now it's
settling down. Yeah, it does

1467
01:37:22,700 --> 01:37:23,480
seem to be settling

1468
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:27,559
Dave Jones: down. I feel, I feel
like that'll like once as all of

1469
01:37:27,559 --> 01:37:30,379
the fountain user maybe I'm
misunderstanding, but I feel

1470
01:37:30,379 --> 01:37:33,439
like as as all the fountain
users do this process, then

1471
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:35,779
eventually it kind of goes back,
similar to the way it was

1472
01:37:35,779 --> 01:37:39,139
before, right? But with just
some extra stuff in the feed.

1473
01:37:39,260 --> 01:37:41,440
Adam Curry: Also you can select
people you're following or

1474
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:45,880
global. I hadn't done global
yet, so, yeah. Anyway, there's

1475
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:48,040
definitely stuff working. Gene,

1476
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:51,520
Dave Jones: never. 3333 through
fountain. He says, I hate this.

1477
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,320
Nostr comment format, like, I
hate it.

1478
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:57,460
Adam Curry: Okay, thanks for the
positive feedback.

1479
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:02,100
Dave Jones: Gene, not. Gene, not
a fan of the new nostra stuff,

1480
01:38:02,100 --> 01:38:05,700
and found gene Everett again,
50,000 Sasser found and he says,

1481
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:08,700
so now we can't boost comments,
man, I wish I had never updated

1482
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:11,640
to the legs to have version. I
really had fun on fountain, and

1483
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:15,060
it seems like it was finally
working well after early years

1484
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:20,100
being buggy. But now I can't
boost comments. Nostra sucks. So

1485
01:38:21,180 --> 01:38:22,040
maybe

1486
01:38:23,060 --> 01:38:24,860
Adam Curry: I know, maybe you
should have a friendly

1487
01:38:24,860 --> 01:38:28,280
conversation with a developer.
And although we love, we love

1488
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:30,980
the boost. It's, it's kind of
harsh, you know, when you're

1489
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:34,400
working on an app and people
are, you know, bitching and

1490
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:36,800
moaning on other shows about it,
and just saying,

1491
01:38:37,340 --> 01:38:40,720
Dave Jones: yes. I mean, shoot,
shoot. Oscar an email, maybe he

1492
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:41,980
can explain what's going on,

1493
01:38:41,979 --> 01:38:46,599
Adam Curry: yeah, and try not to
use the word hate or sucks. Try

1494
01:38:46,599 --> 01:38:48,159
to be positive. You know,

1495
01:38:50,380 --> 01:38:53,680
Dave Jones: we got the
commentary blogger delimiter,

1496
01:38:53,680 --> 01:39:00,420
26,000 SATs through fountain. He
says, howdy, Dave and Adam

1497
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:04,320
howdy. Some podcasts about
podcasting are made by Grifters

1498
01:39:04,500 --> 01:39:08,760
from mainstream media who are
just pretentious pricks. Some

1499
01:39:08,820 --> 01:39:13,500
other are genuinely useful for
all podcasters. Example, School

1500
01:39:13,500 --> 01:39:15,300
of podcasting podcast that you
can

1501
01:39:15,300 --> 01:39:21,140
find@www.schoolofpodcasting.com
a useful podcast by Dave

1502
01:39:21,140 --> 01:39:23,360
Jackson, cousin of Michael
Jackson.

1503
01:39:29,300 --> 01:39:30,500
Adam Curry: Boost of the week.

1504
01:39:32,300 --> 01:39:35,120
Dave Jones: Please subscribe to
it, to polish your pod, to

1505
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:39,260
polish your podcasts. Oh, he I
see what you did there to polish

1506
01:39:39,260 --> 01:39:45,460
your podcast. Bros, yo. CSB, PS
No. Ai, no. AI was used to

1507
01:39:45,460 --> 01:39:49,180
compose this Bitcoin. Gram, not
even yesterday, released high

1508
01:39:49,180 --> 01:39:52,240
IQ, chat, GPT, 010, okay.

1509
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:54,940
Adam Curry: You know, comic
strip bloggers never going to

1510
01:39:54,940 --> 01:39:58,600
die. The AI will just take over,
and it'll just continue boosting

1511
01:39:58,600 --> 01:40:01,920
us. And just, you know, for. The
rest in perpetuity. That's

1512
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:03,780
Dave Jones: what he's been
building for. That's his life.

1513
01:40:03,780 --> 01:40:05,760
That's like his magnum opus.
Yes,

1514
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:07,740
Adam Curry: he'll reproduce
himself,

1515
01:40:09,060 --> 01:40:11,580
Dave Jones: so that when he dies
nobody will know. Yeah, maybe

1516
01:40:11,580 --> 01:40:14,100
he's already dead. Who knows? He
may have died during the

1517
01:40:14,100 --> 01:40:15,420
pandemic. We still know it.

1518
01:40:17,700 --> 01:40:20,360
Adam Curry: Careful now, because
he's gonna get all huffy about

1519
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:23,960
it. I am not dead. What are you
talking about? That is not nice

1520
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:26,180
to talk that way about me. See

1521
01:40:26,180 --> 01:40:28,580
Dave Jones: it now. CSB is
current. See it. What

1522
01:40:28,580 --> 01:40:33,200
constitutes the the physical
manifestation of CSB currently

1523
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:39,620
is, is a tower PC with about 5g
with like five NVIDIA GPUs. That

1524
01:40:39,620 --> 01:40:43,720
is basically what CSB is. No,
this is corporeal self. Now

1525
01:40:43,780 --> 01:40:46,120
Adam Curry: I can already, I can
already see him composing the

1526
01:40:46,120 --> 01:40:48,880
toot. No, I use, I use Azure,

1527
01:40:49,900 --> 01:40:57,160
Dave Jones: whatever, AMD,
whatever, whatever. We got some.

1528
01:40:57,820 --> 01:41:00,600
See, we got some monthly. See,
here we got basil. Phillip, $25

1529
01:41:01,020 --> 01:41:07,380
Thank you basil. Saying, maybe
it's basil, it's probably,

1530
01:41:07,800 --> 01:41:10,980
probably Yeah, basil, yeah,
basil. Phillip, $25 Hey, I'm

1531
01:41:10,980 --> 01:41:15,540
from Alabama. Lauren ball,
$24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Thank

1532
01:41:15,540 --> 01:41:20,480
you. Lauren Mitch Downey, $10
Thank you Mitch. Christopher

1533
01:41:20,480 --> 01:41:26,960
harabarik, $10 Terry Keller, $5
silicone florist, $10 Chris

1534
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:33,200
Cowan $5 Yaron Rosenstein, $1
Paul Saltzman, $22.22 Thank you.

1535
01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:37,400
Paul Derek J visker, the best
name in podcasting, $21 and

1536
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:38,720
Damon kasak, $15

1537
01:41:39,260 --> 01:41:41,740
Adam Curry: thank you all very
much. That's great. Good group.

1538
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:46,240
Value for value. The whole
project here. Go to

1539
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:49,420
podcastindex.org read all about
it right there on the homepage.

1540
01:41:49,420 --> 01:41:52,480
And we get the bottom you see a
red donate button that is for

1541
01:41:52,480 --> 01:41:55,480
your Fiat fund coupons. Or if
you're listening to this in a

1542
01:41:55,480 --> 01:41:58,300
modern podcast app, you can
boost us at any time. We

1543
01:41:58,300 --> 01:42:01,380
appreciate that we read them, of
course. Or you can use the Fund

1544
01:42:01,380 --> 01:42:04,980
Me button, the donation button,
the little thing that looks like

1545
01:42:04,980 --> 01:42:07,800
a wad of cash, hit that and
it'll take you right to our

1546
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:11,460
PayPal as well. We accept
everything to support this value

1547
01:42:11,460 --> 01:42:14,700
for value project. For more on
what that is, there's a great

1548
01:42:14,700 --> 01:42:18,180
YouTube. I'm gonna link it from
the value for value dot info

1549
01:42:18,180 --> 01:42:24,980
website, the Bitcoin Conference
podcast that the artist did

1550
01:42:24,980 --> 01:42:27,380
about value for value. Have you
seen that? It would just showed

1551
01:42:27,380 --> 01:42:31,880
up on on YouTube. It's really
good. And is

1552
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:34,580
Dave Jones: that the one Chad
ethling today? Yes, yes.

1553
01:42:35,420 --> 01:42:37,880
Adam Curry: They start off with,
tell me what value for value is,

1554
01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:40,660
and they nail it. All of them.
They get it completely.

1555
01:42:41,260 --> 01:42:45,760
Especially DJ Valerie B love I
think is that her name, she's

1556
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:49,300
pretty cool. Yeah, very cool.
And thank you. Thank you

1557
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:52,300
everybody. We really appreciate
it. This is a public service. Is

1558
01:42:52,300 --> 01:42:55,540
a public boardroom. Everybody is
welcome. We do every single

1559
01:42:55,540 --> 01:42:59,380
Friday, except around tax time.
We make things a little shorter.

1560
01:42:59,440 --> 01:43:04,080
It's about two hours all right,
brother, get back to work. Get

1561
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:07,980
back to get back to the mill.
You got to grind some more

1562
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:08,940
numbers.

1563
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:11,880
Dave Jones: I just realized
something I wanted that that I

1564
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:15,540
had forgotten to put on my notes
to talk about. And Dang it,

1565
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:17,520
we'll have to talk about next
week. You

1566
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:18,600
Unknown: want to give a

1567
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:23,120
Dave Jones: teaser? No, no,
it's, it's no, it's too much to

1568
01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:27,200
get into. Well, yeah, it's too
much to get Okay, yeah,

1569
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:30,680
Adam Curry: something really
complicated is coming up next

1570
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:33,740
week. All right, brother, have
yourself a great weekend. Dave,

1571
01:43:34,220 --> 01:43:37,040
all right, Timmy and the same.
To the boardroom. Thanks for

1572
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:38,540
being here on podcasting 2.0

1573
01:43:55,180 --> 01:43:57,760
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0

1574
01:43:58,780 --> 01:44:02,400
Adam Curry: visit podcast
index.org for more information.

1575
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:06,840
Go podcasting. Polling is for
pussies. You.