Adam Curry: Casting 2.0 for December 15 2023, episode 159
Well, hohoho Hello, everybody. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 We
are the only boardroom in the business that has a naughty and
nice list. That's right. Here's what we discussed the actual
future of podcasting did now what's happening here, we're all
about it. Podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org And of course,
everything we discussed in the open on podcast index dot
social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country. And in Alabama, the man who loves streaming video to an
audience of millions say hello to my friend on the other end
live demo, Mr. Jones.
Dave Jones: Okay, right off the bat. I have have a have a bone
to pick with you wants,
Adam Curry: what do I do? What do I want?
Dave Jones: What do I do now to streaming video? Yes. You hit me
with a disproportionate use of gifts.
Adam Curry: Because I was hoping it would arrive before the
boardroom.
Dave Jones: I gave you some DVD. Well, no, no,
Adam Curry: hold on a second. I had forgotten that we that you'd
like the only guy in my life that I exchanged gifts with
then. And I think what I gave you last year last year, I gave
you a Oculus card? Yeah, the cold cart. Yeah, the cold cart.
And and so Dave's like oh yeah, I sent you a Christmas present.
And it's like first of December. I'm like, What I haven't even
gotten to my list or anything yet. And I don't have all the
gifts my wife I'm like this. I'm on it your way your way on it.
And so and it's not like you didn't just give me DVDs. These
were very meaningful DVDs. And a very nice card or slash Amazon
note. To go with it. And and I was really touched by it. And so
I'm like, Oh man, what am I gonna give Dave? How did I do?
How did I do?
Dave Jones: You blue. This is disproportionate completely
disproportionate? It's
Adam Curry: not it's not because I want I want to give you
something that you absolutely did not need. But yet, if you
need it.
Dave Jones: You get you got me the Elgato stream deck.
Adam Curry: Mark Two I hope I hope it's the I
Dave Jones: don't know I don't see a mark on it. But I'm
looking I'm gonna say as Mark to I don't even know what to do
with it. But even all the cool note was like this is what all
the cool kids use.
Adam Curry: All the cool kids I know use those legato stream
tech for the streaming because you can use start your stream it
can rearrange your cameras, you know, you can flip your camera
on and all that stuff.
Dave Jones: Yeah, like it's good. Thank you, brother. Oh,
Adam Curry: of course of Thank you. Merry Christmas gift. Merry
Christmas. And I expect you to set it up,
Dave Jones: though. I will I will. I've will absolutely do
that it get a I got it last night. So here's what happened.
I got it. I went out on the front porch. And it was like a
box. I started opening it up and I'm like, wait a second. If this
is something that my wife got, for me, I can't do this. And so
I like you know, I'm like put it down. Cut the cut the lid. And
then I'm like peeking in there to see what color the box isn't
trying to be like. And I'm like, Wait, this is a weird bottle.
This is surely enough. I asked her I'm like did you get
something for me? She's like, No I'm like, What is this and if
you had a nice notice such as just such a nice such a nice
gift. Thank you brother.
Adam Curry: Know you're more than welcome. And I'm curious. I
think it should work with all kinds of different OSs but I'm
sure Windows is whatever you're running your your OBS on Linux
baby Ubuntu though really? I don't know if if it has a boon
to stuff I don't know. Well, this
Dave Jones: legitimately we were talking about this before the
show I've got building Windows box. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Now just for the stream deck.
Dave Jones: And for and for the road because you know, it's
crappy with Ubuntu. So yeah, this time next week, I will have
our have a fat rig. Fat
Adam Curry: rig. It's Yes. Supposedly, you can use it's
like, you can use it for all kinds of stuff from macro. We
build macros. It has like a whole app store.
Dave Jones: feature and it's got so many days got a lot of
buttons. Lots of buzzer grim button on there. I don't know
what you would do.
Adam Curry: I think you can change those buttons. That's the
whole point is you can go to the the stream deck App Store. That
fat rig Yeah, exactly what Oh,
Dave Jones: they got an app. So they
Adam Curry: have an app store. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I
Dave Jones: should put a podcast index app on the stream deck App
Store. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Why not? Might as well as you can. I don't know
what it would do. But it would look cool. It's good to be in an
app store. The only App Store will be in
Dave Jones: I know what it would do it would it would overlay to
hell a pad various brands on the screen.
Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go. Now you're talking. See this is
a business expense now. No, no, that's not a business expense
that talked about it. That is a Yeah, okay. No, I think we
already just established it was a Christmas gift.
Dave Jones: Thank you brother.
Adam Curry: Yeah, no of course man. Thank you. I love my DVDs.
i i And thank you for the for pre ripping the MP force to me I
on my I set up on my What is it called? On my start nine. They
have like an open source. Video management it's like Plex only
it's open source. I think it's called jiggy with it or
something jellyfish. Jellyfish. So I've jellyfish. Yeah, so I
put I put it on there and and started streaming it I the way
the start the start nine still doesn't have what they call
clean net. It's all tore still. So I can it won't connect to the
Roku yet, but that's coming soon with their version four. I love
that, that start nine best thing ever. I gotta say this other
story. Okay, so I'm on the X, you know, formerly known as
Twitter, you have to say that. And, and I see this, this box
called it's called Future bit. Have you heard of this thing?
Dave Jones: I'm gonna say no. Okay, so
Adam Curry: it's like a desktop cube. And, and supposedly it
says 10 Tera. Hash. To silent. This is the big thing silent,
full Bitcoin node and miner made in the USA. So
Dave Jones: let me start with what? I'm not familiar with
current, like hash rates and that kind of thing. What where
does that rank? And how big is that?
Adam Curry: To give me an idea I have. I have two s nines that
have been running for a year now in the house. And I think
together they do about 17 Tera hash. But that's that. And so
that's 600 watts. And this thing is supposed to do 10 At 300
watts. And so now you're literally into the calculation
of money. So these, so these two miners, with today's prices,
they're doing anywhere between three and $5 a day for me. And
I'm on a pool, right? I'm on the brains pool or whatever. And so
this thing, you can make your own pool, you could run it
standalone and just hope for a lucky shot foot should be funny.
Dave Jones: does it connect to ocean?
Adam Curry: I know I really don't know. But here's what
happens. So I just liked that. It's like the Apollo two. It's
their new rig. So I just hit the like button. I get a DM Hi, I'm
the CEO. I want to send you one. I'm like sweet
Dave Jones: Yeah. The answer is yes. Yes.
Adam Curry: I will review it for you. Don't worry. I haven't. It
hasn't hasn't showed up yet. But so yeah, I was feeling pretty
good about that.
Dave Jones: 10 Tera hash at 300 watts. I mean, you're talking
about half the power with you know, with 75% of the ASHRAE
that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Curry: That's made in America. They have their own
ASIC. I don't know just the whole like the whole idea. Is
like a
Dave Jones: Is it like a thing that has like a management
interface where you can like just plug it in and then get
into
Adam Curry: you can have that I lose you there. Boy, you went?
You went Zippy zappy Hello. Hello, Dave. J is not here Do
you guys still hear me right? Still on the stream
Okay, so it must have been Dave let me disconnect. See if you
reconnect I can reconnect him restore There you go. You there
Oh, yeah, I'm here wow, you were gone. You all you want Merton
and then you've got Yeah, you've just gone okay. You were asking
about if he's had a management interface and I was going to say
it's obviously it's a full on Linux desktop computer with USB
ports everything is supposedly quiet which I mean if you those
s nines are in the garage I can't have them in the house.
Dave Jones: Oh yeah, those things are loud.
Adam Curry: So empty Yeah, just so it does have a managed but
you can it's plug and play you plug it in turn on it'll start
mining but there's an interface you can you can connect to so it
does have a I guess has a web server in there. But it's it's a
full on desktop machine.
Dave Jones: The last the last miners I had were had to think
they may have been like s sevens or something. That was right. I
don't even know if that's right. Because it was, it was shortly
maybe a year or two after the transition really happened. GPUs
to ASICs. Right. So I use the funds that are mined from, from
GPUs to buy. Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty profitable
at first and then and then it just went down. You know, like
it was slowly got outmoded. I ended up just, I ended up
trashing them because they were so far out of date.
Adam Curry: I mean, the S nines are out of date, too. I mean,
what is it s 19 is what people are using these were given to me
as well. Now they're refurbished, and I just put them
in the in the garage, keeps the garage nice and nice and toasty
during the winter. I
Dave Jones: had heard the day that AntMiner was like, going
Adam Curry: out of business. And yeah, I don't know. Is that
still the case? I have no idea. I mean,
Dave Jones: we're like the only game in town for a while it's up
and down.
Adam Curry: You know, it'd be you know, it all depends on the
price and the hat and the difficulty and then they
overestimate or under estimate. I don't know. I really don't
know. Yeah, I really don't understand it. But I just think
it's cool that every day I'm like, oh, there's there's $3 Oh,
that's cool. I just I printed money in my garage. And Texas
prices. It's profitable. by little by little bit.
Dave Jones: Yeah, because y'all got y'all have y'all have we got
a late Yeah, decent power when it's not an ice storm.
Adam Curry: That has nothing to do with our grid. That's Austin.
Dave Jones: Prices, decent prices. Nice storm you're gonna
pay $20,000
Adam Curry: for a minute. For your minor. For minor. Yes.
Well, speaking of such I'm going to declare it right now while
you're ready, is I'm going to say and I have some standing in
the podcast area. I am officially declaring this
podcast winter.
Dave Jones: Oh, sweet, okay. It's an efficiently
Adam Curry: podcast winter. I've been through one of these
before. The podcast windows a very bad podcast winter of 2008.
When we were riding high, everyone was loving it. VC money
was flowing. Everybody was happy and jacked. We had advertisers
it was woohoo. So great. And then oh, no, we got Twitter,
Facebook, YouTube. Hello, everybody better do video. If
you're not doing video, you're gonna suck. You're going to be
left behind. That was the first podcast winter. Does
Dave Jones: this. Is this similar to a dark winter?
Adam Curry: No, because that's where everybody dies. Their head
hurts. It is similar to an AI winter which I'm predicting for
next year. But this is the podcast winter we are right in
the middle of it. I've been listening to so much obfuscated
lies before futzing around with language about what's really
going on. I didn't clip anything. But I mean, I was
surprised I was really surprised to hear on a show prep podcast
weekly review. James was kind of attributing twits going, you
know, you know, firings and canceling shows to Leo being
old. And and the same voice is being on the show. I'm like,
what is that? That's bullcrap, though,
Dave Jones: said that Steve Gibson, then the example he
used. That's the one
Adam Curry: I'm most comfortable shows. Exactly. Exactly. Now,
it's not because they didn't innovate. It's not because Leo
doesn't understand the podcast business. Well, yeah, that is so
because I don't think he's had anything to do with the business
side. I'm sure his his wife has been doing that. But he's been
doing video from day one. It's not about that people want video
he did all their stuff is shared on YouTube. So it's not that No,
I listened to the media roundtable. And it was pretty
clear. They're just like, podcasting is out of favor. It's
just out of favor media buyers, or as they call chief audio
officers. Media Buyers are just not buying it because it's got a
bad taste to it. And the thing that shocked me was fraud.
There's there's a there's a very there's a lot of cognition now
about fraud is a big word. They call it fraud on that show, but
okay, we got the downloads but the download really go to where
we think it went up. There's a lot of well, how about capping
of frequency capping and we get into the same people getting the
same result, do this just they just don't know. And then again,
and they're getting better data from all these other places, and
it's no longer hip and hot and happening. There's nothing but
bad news, which I think also attributes for the numbers being
down. Yes, a part of that. There's going to be the apple
podcast. And I think no agenda is if you look at the OP three
stats for no agenda, I think it's very apparent there, then
no agenda is typically a podcast that people will be able to
download. And, and they'll download previous episodes. And
they may or may not get to them all the time. I think we're a
show that people do skip sometimes. A lot of people
don't, but we're just a long show. So we went from, let's
say, 900,000, op, three, unique audience to a little under
700,000 per month. Sounds about right to me from from those
numbers. And I would say that was probably the over count. But
the the overall decline in, in podcasting, then people are
giving up. They think that going away, some people just like, you
know, I think there's pod fading happening everywhere. I think
people are not doing as many episodes. They're not as excited
by it. There's no longer that, hey, I can be Joe Rogan. Spotify
is not going to give me $100 million anymore. So it's podcast
winter. And this is where we hunker down. This is where we
continue to build. And until the next moment, the next serial
moment comes along, which hopefully won't be eight years.
Dave Jones: I did not listen to the most recent media
roundtable. I haven't heard of yet. But so I didn't hear the
thing you're talking about. But I but I did. I had this
interesting experience. So I'm now I'm now this guy. Like,
Adam Curry: you've been this guy for a long time. Okay.
Dave Jones: So here's the math. My daughter, My daughter, she's
my youngest daughter. She's 13. And so, me and her and my wife
have gotten into this pattern each night we we have dinner and
we sit down we watch Gilmore Girls. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, I've
never seen the whole thing. I've only seen pieces. Yeah, so we've
become you know, get more girls are
Adam Curry: hollow baby. Yeah, stars. Hello. Yeah.
Dave Jones: It's um, you know, I look around and you know, the
guy that plays Luke. Scott Patterson's the actor's name. So
I'm like, Well, wonder what else he's he's been in, you know, I'm
interested in looking around because I really haven't seen
many of these people on other shows. So I'm like, well,
where's he been on IMDb and this guy. And it's through searching
essay. I found on Google said, he's got a podcast about Gilmore
Girls where he is watching through the show himself
himself, because he really is very good. Yeah, it's weird,
because he never really saw it, I guess in a holistic way. He
just saw the part he did. And I'm like, Well, this sounds kind
of interesting. I wonder if it's in the index. So I'll go it's in
the index. I've got a couple of things about this. Not just on
two different topics. I'm going to actually bring this up again
later. But he sort of So I find this I've subscribed to it and
cast thematic and so on now, you know, number one, I'm now that
guy that that goes and listens to like fan podcasts of things.
You know, like I'm we're gonna listen through so and so
together. But the other thing is the it's an I Heart Radio,
podcast. And it is the same. The same ads. It's like three, it's
an Ikea ad and two other ads that I don't remember. It is the
same ad five different times in the podcast is a pre roll. And
then there's three mid rolls, and the post roll the identical
ads every single time without fail. Yeah. And it's like, the
podcast is like, let's just say it's 45 minutes long. And
there's 10 minutes 10 to 12 minutes of ads. And they're all
the exact same ad. It's
Adam Curry: been there. I guess they're inserted at
inappropriate times.
Dave Jones: Yes, of course. Of course. It is brutal in it. So
this is the first you know, I'm, I'm used to it. We were we're
podcast nerds. So we're used to listening to podcasts, mostly by
people that are really good at producing podcasts they take
when I when I say good at it. I mean, like they take a lot of
care in how the product is, is Bill. Sure. This is really
honestly my first experience with a podcast that somebody
just a Rando would listen to, like, Oh, I like Gilmore Girls
on subscribe to this podcast. And that stuff. If this is
indicative of the quality that that stuff it represents. It's
terrible. Like the show itself is okay. I mean, like it's the
content, but the production that are you I mean, they're all on
like, you know, air pods mics, and they're in certain horrible
dynamic ads in that are the same all over the place. It's it's
truly garbage. And I could see how download numbers. I could
see how people would get fatigued of stuff like that if,
if that's representative of like the larger world of podcasting
that's out there that makes up all the stuff that I don't
normally listen to.
Adam Curry: Yeah, there was a lot of that. I mean, the the
podcast industrial complex grew up around the success of cereal
and the investment from Spotify. And that's the story. Everyone
knows that. And what we've been talking about for over a year,
maybe a year and a half is now kind of regular parlance except
they say Well, that was dumb money. Okay, say whatever you
want. There was there's been dumb money there was dumb money
for a decade. That's most technology companies are built
on the so called it was cheap money. That's what it was which
cheap money.
Dave Jones: cheap money.
Adam Curry: And that's the I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no good.
Well, the podcast industrial complex came in treated like
radio a weird hybrid actually of radio and other internet based
advertising. I think the as Dr. As we call them the biz direct
response. I think that's still extremely appropriate. You're
not going to get your BMW for direct response. Go buy a BMW
with my code. No, that's not going to happen. But brand
advertising came in and you know, and and a lot of people
will disagree with me on this but it's just not appropriate
medium. Its advertising is very inappropriate, perpendicular.
The opposite of what podcasting has always been about. I'm not
against advertising. I'm really not. But that experience that
you just discussed shows a tip it's like, it's like disco.
Disco was very formulaic. You know, you put your Boom, clap,
Boom, clap to to do to do and then you know, begin yours, your
your lycra and your dance around them. To a degree like crew
techno was kind of techno was kind of a revival of that.
Although, I don't want to get people to techno people all mad
at me. But it's formulaic. It became formulaic and and there's
this idea of, well, I have numbers, so I should make be
making money. And we did that with blogging. Okay. No, no,
that's just not how it works. So
Dave Jones: look at our look at our numbers we went from we went
down, right? We went Oh, yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot. I mean, we
went down from 13,000. Yeah, just like, say like, 5000s.
Yeah. A little under a little under six. If you're so that,
those exact numbers on a note. It's always been you the numbers
you've always heard were, once you get 10,000. Listeners, then
you monetize with ads. Yeah, but advertising. Well, if we if we
were just if we were a podcast that monetized we're not we
know, we just immediately in two months now we're out of the
game. Yeah, we were monetizing. Now. We're not. But
Adam Curry: it's also a who want I just don't want it. It's
that's not what's so beautiful about podcasting. And, you know,
the, the value for value concepts where people support
you, and it works. It's been working. Been working for me.
I'm hearing more and more of it. It's starting to Oh, my God, the
beautiful interview with Ainsley Costello and just loud who are
doing the big. The big concert concerts, I should say, December
28, December 21. Two coming to a 2.0 app near you. This guy, just
loud. He's this is like some he's like a music. What's the
word genius? He he's done. Not No, no, he's a 9000 songs. All
he does is write and record music, and was bought music
savant. Yes. And he had, he has a whole backstory, he had 10
million streams on Spotify didn't receive a dime. He says,
he says, I have received more money from value for value
played on podcast than anything I've ever done on Spotify. And
here's what we're so beautiful. He says whenever I guess he has,
you know, his management team or whatever. They'll send him a
screenshot when stuff is coming in. And he'll go look, and he
says, I see that I see that Satoshis coming in. He says I
immediately get inspired and go write another song. Oh, that's
cool. And that's the whole point is like, you're getting
inspiration. You're getting the feedback loop that shows you
that people are out there and are listening and care enough to
send you money no matter what the amount is. It's irrelevant.
Dave Jones: They do. Okay, so last week, we had this the
Spotify take apart. Yeah. And I had mentioned that something
that I was thinking about where we'll maybe the pod maybe the
Spotify Exclusive. And that podcasting in general, within
Spotify was just a way to get their ma us up into the range
that would meet the numbers required for them to get the get
the lowest rates on music royalty. That's
Adam Curry: definitely part of it. It's a very good, that was a
good deconstruction you had there. So
Dave Jones: I think we have confirmation of that, by
accident, in a clip from Franco asked me to send him this clip.
And I was like, Well, I don't have I didn't at the time have
the clip down version of it handy. I'm like, but I do have
the whole interview or not interview but the whole
presentation that the lady from Spotify gave the investor day.
Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, here, I'll just I'll just send
you this. And I'll let me let me find the place to start. It's
like, I think it's two minutes I was listening through to it. And
it was like, well, there it is. There's confirmation to that. So
I sent you this clip before the show. It's like at the one
minute mark. Just start there and listen to what she says
Unknown: on the same platform. Now, think about how far we've
come. In just under four years, we've gone from having virtually
no podcast on platform to being a global leader in the market.
So put this in perspective. When Ankur joined Spotify in 2019,
there were fewer than 500,000 podcasts on the platform. Today,
there are over 4 million and anchor powers more than 75% of
them. And those millions of shows being published to Spotify
from anchor are often being made by first time creators. As those
creators make their content. They share it with their friends
and family off platform and the results. On average, every new
anchor show brings 2.5 additional meu anchor and our
other hosting platform megaphone, Spotify powered shows
account for 45% of all podcast consumption on platform on
Adam Curry: platform.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's the anchor now we know what anchor
always existed and still exists and Spotify for podcast still
exists. It's an MA usually about and they don't give a crap about
those shows. No, it was never about podcasting is about mA
use.
Adam Curry: But they never really got their advertising
game right. As far as I can tell. Now
Dave Jones: it will they tried to but it was too late. They
tried to with megaphone by going by going into RSS heavy, but it
was them it's too late. And they they they timed it exactly at
the beginning of parcast. Winter, which is where you don't
Adam Curry: want to be I'll explain meu people don't monthly
Dave Jones: monthly active users. Yeah. So that's that's
the monthly active users is, you know, that is like the premier
number that gets report reported for tech companies for tech
companies. Yeah, it's just it's a great it's their primary
growth metric. Yeah. And then and but specifically for
Spotify. We, the research that we talked about last week was
that they when they in 2018, when they really renegotiated
their contract their royalty contracts with the music labels.
The music labels, negotiated a lower royalty rate in exchange
for guaranteed user monthly user growth and they may they may you
never had to go up at a predictable rate.
Adam Curry: Oh, man that makes Yeah, if
Dave Jones: they didn't hit the M au number growth numbers. They
had their royalty rate went back up to the previous to what it
was previously. Yeah, it's so I mean, anchor if every anchor
show brings in an extra two and a half ma you
Adam Curry: Yeah, which is which is yourself and your buddy and
your mom and your mom. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah, half of your mom. Yeah. Yeah, so that mean it
was it's always it's just it's just a NEMA you play it was
always bogus and that's why you have you know, people that have
a supposedly anchor podcast in there clearly. It sounds farmy
Do you know what I mean? Like there'd be like 1000 shows new
shows a day or more and half of them are like it in 10 seconds
of somebody you know doing a fart noise
Adam Curry: you would know you you went through most of those
swear to
Dave Jones: God I mean like it's horrible. But then it but then a
lot of them is just like people that are clearly from like it's
like it's kind of like click farms you know there that are in
the right deterring country like the Philippines and Indonesia
and these places where they run these these sweatshop click
farms. A lot of the a lot of the anchor stuff sounded farmy to
me. I'm not saying that they did it, but it's like it just had
that weird vibe to it where you're like, This doesn't even
make sense. Why did anybody even bother
Adam Curry: if there's any if the way they the way Spotify
works with with music with purchasing fake streams getting
on a certain playlist paying for that, if that's any indication,
I'm sure that all of the all of the above is true. Yeah, yeah,
the whole thing. The whole thing is just, it's, it's a crap show.
It really is. And I, you know, whatever motivated us, whatever
I mean, we know what the surface reasons were, but we're on a
mission from God, Dave, bring out the book. This is the good
book. We started this at the right time and look at look at
the results while the pod and I should say the podcast
industrial complex winter. Well, that has set in. We have all I
think every single app has done an update in the past couple of
weeks and good updates. Good ones. Yeah, good ones. I'm blown
away by podcast guru. The stuff Mitch is doing with POD verse.
The Fountain version one, which I think is in beta still is
phenomenally improved. I mean, the speed the interface, you
know, just there's a lot of thought went into that, that Sam
Sethi launched today I think and and rebranded to true fans,
which I think is sexy. I liked it and I like I like true
fans.fm And he's and he's got a whole M in his vision, which is
clear to me is very different from what any other podcast app
is doing. I love that and I think that it'll probably really
come to life with this Ainsley Costello just loud show which is
going to be on true fans pod verse podcast guru
Dave Jones: I have a breakdown and you wonder yes please
Adam Curry: please because I and I, and I love watching how
everyone came together that Adobe das at RSS blue.com You
know he's doing the RSS feed and you know everyone's been testing
it's like my heart is full and warm from just watching all this
little sticky but it's
Dave Jones: that's the eggnog so I did I would I tuned in to the
one o'clock pm central time Test
Adam Curry: Now was this blueberry on site as well as he
was he a part of this because he's teased in this too? I mean,
there's all kinds of people I miss
Dave Jones: I don't know if he was on site or not but very were
you on site let us know Yeah. So we did the angular Costello live
test yesterday or not say we did I was not part of it but I was
testing it. And pod verse five by five worth work like
Adam Curry: a champ. Yeah. And that's on the web or the app the
web I guess, the the web I
Dave Jones: did not test on device for pod verse. Curio
caster. Also five by five podcast guru, beautiful,
perfect. Pod fans could not. And I think Sam said this, he said
he had worked to do some it's like it wanted to play and it
kept trying to go but some it just wasn't working.
Adam Curry: Sounds like a corps or DNS issue. It's always what
it is. So
Dave Jones: out of the four video apps that we add the 14.0
apps that we know support video, the three the four, beautiful
ready to go in and I'm in I'm sure that Sam will get fans up
and running. But I mean, like we're, it was a fun experience.
Um, is it was really cool to see that
Adam Curry: were you able to boost as well? What did that
have that up? Did you check all that stuff or just just the
video?
Dave Jones: I didn't try to boost at the time because I know
PUD and I was curious. Okay, Securio caster was streaming
auto it was streaming per minute. But I, I did not try to
boost through any of the Alby back stuff because I think, I
guess we have to talk about the LP pocalypse.
Adam Curry: Yeah, so of course, of course we have.
Dave Jones: That was taught so that was happening at that time.
And I was like, okay, um, I just want to see the video work. So I
was that's all I was really focusing on at the moment. But I
mean, like, it was a great experience to to be able to,
like, pop up and pour gas guru on my phone. Or the other apps
on the web. And I'm just watching them have a live jam
session. It was so cool. Wow.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's rad. So just looking at some of the
going to another thing here. So I was messing around with with
podcast guru. And I come across a feed and yeah, this vigilante
TV that kind of we I think we talked about that the other day,
like these guys are doing all kinds of foreign feeds with
everything in there. They've got They've got value blokes,
they've got everything. And I find David Icke. Now, of course,
everyone can roll your eyes about David Icke, lizard, Lizard
Man. But he, he's has in their ultimate enclosure, which is an
HLS video, which is clearly streaming, streaming with value
blocks and everything and an on podcast guru, it just works.
Really? Yes. With the alternative and closure. I'm
like, what I mean, what is going on here? The stuff is moving
fast. This is this is interesting.
Dave Jones: I think the vigilante.tv thing?
Adam Curry: Well, in the podcast index is just David Icke,
because there seems to be three duplicate feeds of the same
thing, which, okay.
Dave Jones: But here I say, Yeah, but
Adam Curry: there's, but I'm up because it would start off with
the same video. I'm like, What is this and the progress bar
wasn't moving properly. And then I started looking into the other
streaming.
Dave Jones: And they got Potter, they get a get pod roll in here.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: everything's in there. And you know, for a gay
gay a guy like David Icke who, you know, inherently is not an
advertising friendly guy. Value provide value for value is
perfect. Perfect.
Dave Jones: I think out that talked to Alex and he said that
the guys run into what's at hive tube, which is what vigilantes
okay, they took his like, login basically plugin work yeah. For
to the off and started doing their own things. I mean, they,
they pretty much forked off of peer tube. They've got all you
know, they're clearly running his code because it's got to 2.0
feeds and all
Adam Curry: right. Dobby das says boosting live worked on all
apps Dave mentioned and pod verse video live stream worked
on mobile to price. I mean, I'm, I am going to, I'm getting a
couple 100 bucks in my wallets. And I'm going to run all five of
them at the same time. And boost everybody the same. So Merry
Christmas, everybody.
Dave Jones: You bet the SAT canon.
Adam Curry: Pew, pew, pew, pew.
Dave Jones: That's a good idea. Yeah. And they load up, load up
a fat wallet and do it to that. I'm looking forward to it. So
it's the 20/20.
Adam Curry: I think 20. There's two shows the 20th and the 21st.
I think Ainslie costello.com. Our just loud world.com has all
the info. Just one other thing I wanted to mention about because
I was listening to the new media show. And I was here's the funny
thing was about advertising and about stats and numbers. And you
know how tricky it is. And the first I would say if I, if I had
a an advertising base show that I had to show numbers to an
advertiser, but I would hands down, run that through
blueberry, I believe Todd Cochran has the best, most
honest, most fair numbers in the world. Now. I mean, I just I
know the work he's done on that. But I'm also hearing about how
much money he spends, you know, to make sure that, you know, he
gets an updated scam list. And there's all these different
things that he has to it's like, it's like a moving target, it's
Whack a Mole. And he spends a lot of money, time and energy on
it. And meanwhile, I probably sent him 20 bucks, just me in
booster grams, you know, just to hear my name on the show, of
course, of course this but then this, this thing came up about
op three and I just want it because I was listening to rob,
who says, Well, you know, this is ideology of transparency and
like, what is this ideology? Crap. It's not it. So I just
want to explain my my feelings about this. I think the IAB is a
scam. It's not that their numbers are a scam. But
everyone's numbers are different. It's it's a it's a
recommended certification. It's not like a centralized Nielsen.
The reason why television ad rates are what they are. One is
because there's artificial supply, scarcity, scarcity.
Thank you. Because it's on a 24 hour clock instead of you know,
how much inventory do you want, but it's also one central
approved source. And I think that what Spurlock has done with
Opie three is really the future for for any type of download
based ad, download base system and I'm because if everyone
starts contributing to it, and we all make it open, which is
not not an ideology, it's like I want to help people I put all my
all my numbers are up there. And I don't have an advertising
plane it doesn't I don't look at it either. I really don't care
that much. Because I just want to be I just need to know if I
can pay the rent. That's basically the numbers I've
looked at how much do we do? And if not, I tell the audience you
know, we need more, otherwise, I can't do this anymore. Right. So
so this became this whole thing. And I'm just I think there's a
cultural thing going on here. And I just want to make sure
that's out because I don't know what it's like in Australia. But
in America if you if you tell a man your chicken you make
chicken noises you can you might get shot criticism was going on
and on at Todd about chicken don't want to put your numbers
out there. Like that yellow that's that's not in America.
That's that's like, slapping the glove in someone's face in
person. You know it. That's, that may not be culturally the
same thing. The dual
Dave Jones: challenges. Yeah. And
Adam Curry: I was hurting for Todd. Right. Wow, man, that's
really harsh. I know. Todd doesn't have to show his number.
No one has to do anything. But. But also it's like, Come on,
let's like, you know, let's just calm down a second, that I've
never even lashed out at Big Cridland that hard. But I don't
think he realizes that it's an America that's culturally. You
know how the C word and America doesn't mean the same thing in
the UK?
Dave Jones: No, yeah. Yeah. So it's different. Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: that level different? Probably. So yeah, I
just need to get off my chest. I'm listening to him like, Oh,
my God, this is really horrible. This
Dave Jones: is funny. So you mentioned you mentioned blue. So
Todd, posted in the chat just a minute ago that he's there
seeing programmatic advertising CPM, six, between $6 and $14,
depending on what did you know, you, you could say that, if you
stick it out, if you are, if you are a an advertising supported
show, and you stick it out through the dark, you know,
through the dark days of the podcast winter, Z, you may you
know, the see this, I guess the silver lining is the CPMs
probably would come up a bit. Because you're gonna have just
less competition. The more podcast Oh, yeah, game drives
the CPMs down to down to zero.
Adam Curry: So it's just the whole idea, so antithetical to
the love that you get from a podcast like, I'm going to rob
the podcast, I'm going to make you listen to this. Whereas I
mean, I'd prefer to even even if it's Ben Shapiro going gold. I
mean, you know, it's all right. I mean, I can handle that. But
it's like, please listen to the ads, please click on our, you
know, go to our advertisers websites. No, I mean, it's so
much easier to ask for value to be returned. And
Dave Jones: I guess, you know, that's, that's what, that's
what's wrong with all these discussions, is that they all
get talked about just like, I just did it. I just did this.
Yeah. Without thinking about it, all of these discussions, you
start talking about advertising and all this kind of stuff as in
a vacuum as if it's a math problem, right, completely
disregard the listener experience, and all that stuff.
And as I did that, 15 minutes after I just finished talking
about this Gilmore Girls podcast, it drove me crazy.
Well, okay, CPMs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and listener
counts. And it's like, it's so easy to get enticed into that
into the way of thinking that is just so this nothing but
metrics. Yeah, we're all you're just, you're just pushing charts
around all day, and you're thinking and metrics and
numbers, and you're completely forget that the on the ground
experience of listening to some of these shows is complete
garbage.
Adam Curry: And I have the same feeling about all the AI stuff.
You know, it's like, okay, yeah, we're gonna make podcasting
easier. You know, it'll be simpler. I've heard a whole
conversations about, well, we need to make the gear as to auto
configure itself, you know, sometimes you got to learn
something. You got to learn something. And if you learn
something, then you can get good at it. And if you put the time
in, you know, this, it's not like a magic money machine.
That's how it's treated. That's how it things on the internet
are always treated that way and at the end of the day, and I
said If you're working your tail off for some Silicon Valley
company who's giving you a little pittance at the end of
the ride, you are you are building their business. Every
tweet, you send every YouTube video your upload, you're doing
it for Google them, maybe they'll give you something. And
they won't know the probably won't know that when we started.
I wish I could find one of my old daily source code openers.
Because it was a British BBC guy who had interviewed me still
alive. I think he was out he was pretty old then. And it starts
like something is happening here. And then you know,
something, there's something going on. People can people with
anything, or nothing to say, can do this without gatekeepers. And
that that's really what it was when we first start off. It was,
hey, I can do this. I don't need a transmitter transmitters. We
don't need no strength. It was never I can make money just by
putting up an mp3 and getting some downloads. No, there was
never that. It was never that. And so this whole so called
industry, which still after 20 years can't agree on their
measurements. It's not an industry then. 20 years. Yeah.
Dave Jones: I still love that. 20 years on. downloads can
evaporate 20% over overnight. And we're like whoa.
Adam Curry: What? Yeah, like,
Dave Jones: like, oh, we, you know, we we get this stuff
nailed down. It's fine. And it's like whoosh, yeah. What do you
want to see? You know, what's weird is in this hive tube feed.
They have a tag in here called podcast colon search. Oh, that's
Adam Curry: not a real tag. No. Interesting.
Dave Jones: winging it.
Adam Curry: Like Sam like Sam Sethi. Sam Sethi just every
idea. Oh, I did that.
Dave Jones: Hey, Sam, do you know that they have a tag? You
don't have? Yeah, maybe better? Yeah. Yeah, fight go.
Adam Curry: So what was interesting is that Sam put in
the alternate enclosure. And I guess this is it's a hack. I
guess it was based upon kind of a flippant remark we made about
embedding a YouTube video as an enclosure. And so true. fans.fm
has that working? I saw Mitch was working on some stuff. And
there was some back and forth, you know, if anyone if this is
have we decided if this is even possible? I mean, Alex Gates was
very clear that, you know, you can there's a way you can access
the HLS stream or something, but the apps would have to do some
decoding. I mean, is this have we determined if this is a thing
or not?
Dave Jones: I could have sworn that I saw somebody saying that
it worked. But I don't remember who or what, or anything like
that. I mean, it would, it's got to be easy to test. You know, I
mean, like, it just has to be because the altered the HLS
streams are supported, like in pod verse in pod fans and
podcast
Adam Curry: gurus. Clearly Yeah.
Dave Jones: And curio caster. Right. But then the thinking
Adam Curry: was that that wouldn't be possible YouTube
wouldn't let that happen. I'm just wondering if if we'd
figured that out? Because I'd love to try it. I mean, I know
that Steven B is threatened to put alternate enclosures into
sovereign feeds of course. Love that guy.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, I think that that's see
that I mean, there's this tension between between the
stuff that Sam is doing and the the hosting companies. No,
Adam Curry: I know that I understand why I get it. But if
I want to put a PDF into my enclosure, that's valid. As long
as I have the MIME type in there.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's just uh, the the alternate enclosure. I
mean, that's what
Adam Curry: it's for. Yeah, exactly.
Dave Jones: And I think the I think the idea is to run you
know, if if this Silicon Valley is going to if they're going to
take everything from you and give you nothing, well, then,
you know, let's ride the master. Advantages
Adam Curry: take it from Oh, ultimate enclosures is indeed in
sovereign feeds. Well, could
Dave Jones: you here's the here's, here's the good, here's
the good, what could you
Adam Curry: check it out? I can even I can add the source URI
and then type length bitrate height, language. Arielle,
codecs, default all kinds of stuff is in here.
Dave Jones: When did Steven do that? When does he Does he? What
does he do all this stuff?
Adam Curry: Right after he puts the kids to bed?
Dave Jones: While he's putting it?
Adam Curry: Oh, cool, so I can mess around with that now,
Dave Jones: because I want I wonder if you could do unlist an
unlisted YouTube video? Oh, and then just grabbed HLS out of
that. Yeah, I just use that as the
Adam Curry: I just need to know just need to know how to, quote
unquote grab the HLS
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know that that's, I don't know. I
would assume that something like something like YouTube DLC, you
know, like that can
Adam Curry: write? Right? You can pick it up from there.
Dave Jones: I bet you that was a bet you that shows you only try.
Let's see if they've got a do I have you to DLC to deal? See? I
do not. I will. And I'm not going to install it right now.
Because that would crash my computer.
Adam Curry: We got 25,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Oh, he says
way behind on episodes after being away for three weeks on a
brain break. Oh, man, is it okay, we're able to put it back
together the break is the new hack to use YouTube video
annoyed me. And it still does a bit Oh, I like this. Being
blueberry has supported through video podcasts since the begin
beginning fully podcasting two point podcasting to enable.
Getting to point this is the only function I can get behind
an alt enclosure support which we can position as a worthwhile
feature. That said once Dave gets our namespace proposal move
forward, we can kill two birds with one stone. I understand why
you're annoyed by that Todd, I get that. I do.
Dave Jones: But look at it this way, though. video, YouTube.
Blueberry is one of the only one only hosting companies to
support video as an option, and it costs a lot more money
because of the bandwidth requirements. This way, you you
keep a customer with and they can put in their own alternate
video stream perhaps using YouTube HLS they're going to go
do it themselves. But you keep the customer because and they
don't bail to YouTube or some other video platform. And but
they don't it doesn't cost them any extra. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm not even gonna get into that argument. What
what is the proposal that he's talking about? This is the
ultimate feed proposal. Majority. Yeah. Anything that I
think that's fine too.
Dave Jones: Right. Yeah, the one the discussion we have. Again,
namespace stuff to talk about.
Adam Curry: You don't want it you want is you want to fire it
up. Hit it. And now it's time for some hot names call so hot
is heating up the podcast winter.
Dave Jones: We kind of something makes me want to want like a
Christmas version of hot namespace.
Adam Curry: Okay, hold on a second. I think we can do this
flip with like sleigh bells or something you name Let me see.
Let me say why don't we try this again? Let's see if we can do
this. Is not it? No, that's not even close now. Okay, let's try
it again. And now it's time for some namespace. You go Christmas
namespace talk. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Maybe you want to, maybe you have an eggnog with
with some leg of Mulan.
Adam Curry: Wow, that's very insulting to the Lagavulin, but
okay.
Dave Jones: MacAllan 18. Oh, yeah,
Adam Curry: it gets gets better, gets better McCallum
Dave Jones: and you're like, hey, sweet. Hey, sweetheart. Can
we talk about namespace the lightning, the lightning
interest attribute on the value tag?
Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, honey, I'm so hot for you right now. And
Dave Jones: she says I want to divorce. Right.
Adam Curry: Right away.
Dave Jones: That is that that is something that we need to talk
about. So the lightning address thing in the value. We talked
about this briefly a few weeks ago. Oscar and and the lb guys
wanted it. Want an ad want a new attribute on the value recipient
tag? That would take a lightning a key send address, right? So
that you could say like, you know, David get alby.com instead
of the 100 node ID which is fine. The sticking point though.
It has been two things. What do you call it? I think we've got
that settled.
Adam Curry: But then what do we call it? What
Dave Jones: is the name? Is the attributes just going to be
called Kison? Lightning address thingy? Is Lola will already
Adam Curry: work? You said. Yeah,
Dave Jones: keys. And so the idea here would be that you have
a instead of a type of node, you have a type of keys and and that
unlocks a key send attribute, which then has the key send
address in it like David get albedo? That's fine, except for
a couple of couple of things. Is this is this than an exclusive
thing? Does that mean that now all that you have in the value
recipient tag is just the key send attribute with the key send
address in it? Or do you also still retain the node ID, the
address attribute with the node ID in it also, and then you just
have a situation where where the address is tried first? You
know, you'd like it, then you have both, but you have a
priority. One one over the other. That's, that's one thing
that we don't know yet. That that Michael from WaveLight
brought up. And then the other thing is, where does the
resolution happen? So the two people bringing this up, or
Oscar for fountain and the gas from Alby?
Adam Curry: Yeah, that was just a good question. Where does the
resolution happen? Because in my case, that means it got to set
up a server, I gotta have a cert gotta do all kinds of
Dave Jones: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, this, I'm talking about
client side resolution.
Adam Curry: How do they resolve it? Where do they resolve it? At
what point?
Dave Jones: Right? Does the so in this case, cast ematic has to
look has to do it looks into splits? Do they have to look up
the address before they send you the split? So that they can get
the node ID the correct node IDs to send in the lb API calls? Or
can or can Franco just provide the address in the lb API call?
And lb does the lookup on their side? Whoo,
Adam Curry: well, that sounds dangerous, because now you have
something that is specific to the wallet. And the wallets API
instead of something universal that everybody can just
implement and say, okay, but I have to look this up. Right?
Because let's put it this way, if it's wallet side, and I
decided for whatever reason I wanted to do Adam mccurry.com, I
would have to provide that somehow.
Dave Jones: Right? If you're if my
Adam Curry: wallet and API like that, I mean, it's easier for me
to do, even though a pain in the ass, and I won't do it, it will
be easier for me to set up a reverse proxy on my start nine
and have a well known address type file there that just you
know, serves it up instead of trying to figure out how to bake
that into my wallet.
Dave Jones: I agree. I agree. And so that, then that's really
that's that's the issue. I don't think we can move forward until
we have an answer. Do we have an answer to that question? Because
that's the prioritization question. I think we can. I
think we can plow ahead and come up with something on that. That
makes sense, right. But the issue of where it gets resolved,
if
Adam Curry: I'm sorry, could you explain the prioritization one
more time, just so I understand what's happening there?
Dave Jones: Well, that was just an issue of like, do do we keep?
So in one. So with that you have it, let's say you have a value
recipient, and it's got to end the value recipient is of type
key send, instead of type node, then now do you still keep the
node address attribute in there and also have a key send
address? And you just say, okay, hey, clients, try key send
address first. If that fails, then fall back to try the node.
Id got it. That's a little it can get a little squirrely.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: hold on a second. Try the keys and address first
so so there's there will be a fail basically, on my on my
blocks, first, it will be a fail. So why do we why are we
giving that priority? Am I standing?
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're misunderstands the values. This
is only if the value recipient type is equal to keys and if it
remained if your value recipient type is no like it's always been
not an issue because the because the key said address attribute
is not even going to be in the tag. Okay, got it. Yeah, but
this I don't, I was hoping to wrap this up quickly. But that
that issue of of something like cast ematic, potentially having
to resolve multiple addresses before they can even do the
lookups. Like, that's just that is a that's a showstopper man.
And I think if if Albie or whoever is, you know, whichever
API's are providing the payment services, if they can put the
if, if they want this, I feel like they should put it into
their API to allow this to be resolved on their end. Because
it's, it's such a heavy lift for a client to have to send
potentially dozens of HTTP requests before they can start,
pay, even start the payment. Yes, caching and all that stuff.
But you don't have a lot of clients that state to have to
handle. But
Adam Curry: so so when you have an app that is just used to
sending a key send payment, what does the app developer have to
change now? Do they have to talk to the Alby API?
Dave Jones: Well, if they so regarding the whole
Adam Curry: lightning idea, doesn't it? Well,
Dave Jones: the way it would ideally work is if you have if
they're going through and making a payment to a value recipient
who has a type of node, then per excuse me a type of send keys
and then they would have a link, grab the add the address out of
there. And just give it to the Albie API and say, here's how
much to send. And you're done. Stephen
Adam Curry: crater with weighs in? And we take this advice from
him seriously? Yes, the app should look up the well known
and use the Node Info in the return JSON data, no special
API. That's what he says.
Dave Jones: Use the Node Info in the return JSON data that the
apps themselves the client, yeah,
Adam Curry: that's it. But that's, uh, now they could cache
they could cache but it is it is it is extra work was
Dave Jones: a year because then you got state? You know, I mean,
then you got to deal, then you got to deal with one of the two
hardest things in, you know, in programming cache invalidation.
When do you have? You know, I don't know. It's just, it just
seems like, it seems like the server side to me, the API side
is the right place to do this. I mean, it's like, it's like
asking, you know, it's like saying, Okay, well, I'm getting
all this stuff, all my all of my feed data from the podcast index
API. But whenever I see a domain name, I'm gonna have to resolve
that myself and only ask podcast index API for IP addresses.
Right?
Adam Curry: But but now we're taking the beauty of the
Lightning Network out of the equation almost. And you're just
you're just doing an API call to a wallet. But
Dave Jones: that's what they're doing already, though. Like,
like with like, with cast ematic. And in pod verse,
they're not doing direct communication with the Lightning
Network. They're using LB is there, right,
Adam Curry: but in that case, but now we're talking that you
have lbs send, and then I'll be as received so you so now the
sending wallet, let's just say that cast thematic was using the
FUBAR wallet, which just knows how to send key send. Now that
wallet now has to change.
Dave Jones: The way it sends? I don't think so. No, no, no,
because Because Alby in this, in this instance, Abby would be
doing the would they be doing the resolution, Alby would be
handling node IDs the way it always did under the covers?
Right? Initially resolve it,
Adam Curry: but that's okay. But now,
Dave Jones: so like, it's so take, take the example of you
have, you have your Umbral or your start nine attached to your
Alby account,
Adam Curry: you but let's say I don't, okay. Let's just say I
don't to make because Because yeah, now now the sending and
the receiving is being done on the lb Wallet. So it's really
just an API call is not even a lightning payment.
Dave Jones: You see what I'm saying? You're talking about
from an lb to an lb.
Adam Curry: I'm talking. This is confusing, well in and I think
in this case is good that I'm stupid because I can ask the
dumb question. So let's say I'm going from an Alby wallet to a
fountain wallet. How did how does that work in this scenario
was looking up on the API?
Dave Jones: Okay, so on fountain let's say you have a podcast
that is hosted hostless a podcast is hosted@rss.com and
the podcaster claimed it on fountain Yeah, and added their
added their note, note information, which which in this
case would be something like dave@fountain.fm. Right, added
their address to their feed that gets sent to podcasts index API.
Now pod verse goes to send a payment to that podcaster. They
see the address, make a request to albies API to send 1000 SATs
to dave@fountain.fm. I'll be resolved that fountain.fm into
the long hex string of have the node ID, the lightning node ID
that that it resolves to. Then since the keys in payment,
Adam Curry: how was it resolving it?
Dave Jones: Using the dot well known?
Adam Curry: So the wallet does the resolution.
Dave Jones: The the API making the payment would do the
resolution? If if it's going through an API, like like so
for, you know, in this regard, pod verse never does anything
itself, it always uses lb, right. So I'm saying that I'm
saying that if lb wants this functionality, they should
provide the address resolution services. So the clients don't
have to do anything diff. So
Adam Curry: let's say there's a podcast app. And I'm just
imagining something crazy. Let's say that I want to send this
payment from my own start nine node that I had, that's my
wallet, which is act technically not mounting, that's a thing
except through Guillermo is on was it called?
Dave Jones: The Chrome extension, pod station, pod
station,
Adam Curry: pod station, I can connect to my own node. Now how
does it work?
Dave Jones: The in that, in that situation? Since there is no API
intermediary API, pod station would have to do the resolution.
Adam Curry: Ah, that's where I have a problem. Okay, because
now pod station has to do has to talk to an API somewhere. So pod
station has to upgrade.
Dave Jones: Well, he does have to chain make a change, but it
wouldn't be talking to an API, he would just do an address
resolution lookup, which is just an HTTP request. Like his his
his example, maybe not be, maybe it's not a great one, because
it's mostly a desktop app and a browser extension. And the
speeds and everything are probably not going to be a very
big deal. It's a bigger deal when you when you have something
like, curio caster, or and let's say antenna pod, if they did
value for value payments, where they don't have, they don't have
they have no server, they have no infrastructure is really just
all client side. In that you really don't want to have to do
all those HTTP recall calls on a mobile app. Just in order to get
yourself set up to do an API call, just do it.
Adam Curry: I think that maybe I'm confusing or conflating
issues. The reason why I'm bringing this up is I'm as you
know, I'm a staunch supporter of non custodial wallets, non
custodial systems, and we're already seeing the groaning and
creaking. And I think we all got a slight, like, a mini heart
attack when I'll be stopped. Now, it's all going to be okay.
But when Alby said Oh, no new accounts, right? You know, I
think we should always, always, always keep in mind, a
decentralized world, especially when it comes to the payments.
And we've now centralized ourselves into a box. Right? I
feel that I would like to use pod verse on my own node. I
can't. But I would like to, I think we need to start thinking
about that as we make these changes.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, this is, this is this is the big, this is
the big issue. I mean, like, once you talk about anything,
this is, this is not just a Crip crip to you know, cryptocurrency
issues, not just a bitcoin is I know, I know, it's true for
every thing. I mean, like, anytime you talk about anytime
you bring in payment infrastructure into anything.
Now you have to think about what's the A, what API are you
going to use? And are you gonna go try to do it very direct? Are
you going to try to use like a layered API like Stripe, plaid,
or something like that? I mean, these are these are sort of
universal questions when it It comes to this this type of, of
thing. And, you know, lb you know, so the lb thing. Yeah,
you're right. It gave everybody a heart attack because it's
like, well, they've been, you know, they've been growing.
They've clearly, you know, I'm trying to get him on the show,
and I will soon. They couldn't make it this week. But you know,
clearly, clearly they've grown way faster than they were could
handle.
Adam Curry: If you look at the telegram group, I've seen a lot
of Chinese people. And I'm nothing I'm, I'm not going to be
racist, but I'm going to be for a second. When you see the
Chinese showing up, you'd like Oh, man. Yeah, I would be
worried myself like, okay, or is it Korean? Or is it North
Korean, South Korean? What are these guys wanting? There's
people building bots off of their services. And there's all
kinds of stuff going on. I once I dived into what's going on
over there. I mean, it's not it's one thing to have
podcasting 2.0 API. I'm not sure even the how much, you know, the
taxing amount of the noster stuff. I have no idea. But I can
see there's a lot of people doing stuff on their API that
would have me freaked out.
Dave Jones: Was Yeah, I think you're right, I think that's
probably very much could be a spam defense measure,
Adam Curry: I would think so. Well, the million SATs limit was
the obvious canary in the coal mine. They're like, Hey, guys,
our mission is we're just a small provider for small day to
day payments makes total sense. But now we're look people are
Ms, a whole bunch of things going on at the same time. And
all I'm saying is and I have no business, being able to really
given opinion about this about the API stuff, and who does what
other than I would like to see, at all times, we always think
about sovereignty. So I agree. And, and this has kind of been
bugging me for a long time, but I would really like to just use
is handy to have Alby. And now B is also my login for five
things, you know, which creeps me out because of Alby goes
down, I can't get into you know, I can't get into stuff like
split kit, I won't be able to use it. Who knows what will
happen? So I just want to make sure that we we keep the
ultimate future, which will have I can guarantee you there will
be a day when we will need to have a sovereign self hosted I
think is the term but your own noncustodial wallet capability
for this? I can see it coming.
Dave Jones: Probably, yeah, you're probably right.
Adam Curry: So I don't want this little like, like heart shock we
got the other day. I can only imagine.
Dave Jones: Well, you know, I think on a long enough, on a
long enough time scale, who I don't nobody can say how long.
But I think on enough of a timescale, this. The these feel
like growing pains of the oven that are natural,
Adam Curry: oh, look at the quality of the problem. And this
is these are great problems to have. I'm excited about that.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: so you you're gonna have, like, there's the issue
here is that the issue here is that lightning is trying to do
something in general, that is very, I don't want to it's Well,
I can't say it's trying to do something that's new. Like
lightning is doing is providing small, like micro transaction
level liquidity in a way that is, in a way this maintain some
level of sovereignty, that is in his peer to peer that is very
difficult to do on scale with Bitcoin, because that's not have
the coin was built, wasn't built for the micro transaction stuff.
So it's trying to do something new. And this is this was a
predictable growing pain because you you've got, like, you can
see where we are. And let me try to be more clear on and I'm
being hard to understand here. But like, you can even see like
think about where we were everybody running their own
node, one lnd, sphinx voltage or whatever, right? Then you have
Ellen pay, which is sort of next step. If first step of evolution
there. LB which is next step of evolution project out into the
future and you have you have something Greenlight esque. That
is that is sovereign. That is good noncustodial but still is
May is portable, right? Like, how's the trend cloud vs. We're
trying to get from where we are now to where it to that thing.
And like that's a that's what the next X amount of time is
going to be like. It's we're getting there. But it's just a
hard transition to make and like, look at what Alex had to
do with no agenda to I mean, no agenda to he had to shut down
signups on that because of spam signups. You can only imagine
what, you know, what it what the spam volume and hat and huckster
volume is, when you know, when you're talking about a payment
platform. Now, it's now it's just off the chart, you know, so
that, it surprises me that they didn't run into this problem
sooner. And when it comes when you get to that day, where your
spam signup volume is, it, it's like every, it's like it's a
trickle and a trickle and then a flood, right. And when that day
hits, it's heartburn. And you, you really don't know what else
to do other than just like stop sign ups and say, you've got to
email me so we can vet you who the human being Yeah. But I feel
like, I feel like we're in this is why I want to get him on the
show. So we can hear so we can talk about, like, get an idea
what the future plans are. And they've talked, you know, they
talked about on office hours the other day, it sounds like their
future plans are exactly what we've, what we're thinking they
probably are. But they just had this like, you know, they had
some some event that happened where they were like, Oh, crap,
right. So I don't know. I mean, it's still the best is still the
best solution for for for PI for 2.0. Apps. Yeah, now it's out
there. Right.
Adam Curry: But but but as we move forward. So we we come back
to the original question. Do we have who who does the lookup and
and how was that handled?
Dave Jones: I don't see how we can move forward with a with a
proposal that where the lookups have to happen client side?
Well, let me let me take that back. That was the wrong way to
say that. I don't see how we move forward until we have until
we have lb tail and I've asked them this in the discussion
thread. If lb can provide the lookup for us. That I think that
needs to be, like I said it's like it's like expecting the
podcast index API to only deal with IP addresses and all the
the DNS host names have to be resolved before you send a
request. Right? It just doesn't seem like it's a mismatch. And
Alex is right. You know, he said, the wallet providers,
wallet providers can communicate with the feed hosts when the
lightning info changes like the pub key. That's come that there
again, that's completely the same it doesn't it that's for
set for self hosted feeds, like power press feeds, and those
kinds of things where you had this distributed mass of people
who may have the wrong node ID listed. That's a problem. You
know, and I think that's what prompted Oscar to bring this up
is because they've been having to track down podcasters, one at
a time and had to manually change their feeds. Right.
Right. But, you know, there could be some, you know, maybe
there's some proposal for a redirect. You know, I don't know
where it's like a node node ID to node ID redirect. I don't
know, we just, I just, I just feel like to get if the if they
want this in and they meaning that, you know, elbow via
fountain fountains already got a handle because their API
internally they do all these lookups. Right, like, you know,
they, it's all internal to them. So you don't have to they don't,
it's not going to be a burden on them. But it is going to be a
burden on the other 2.0 apps if they have to do this themselves.
And I think if Alby can come back to that to the discussion
and say, oh, yeah, we'll change our API, we'll we'll add an
extra tweak to it so that you can send an a, like a key send
address instead of a lightning node address that I think that
would solve the whole thing. We'll just go we'll just go
ahead and make that change and be done with
Adam Curry: it. Okay, well, balls in their court, then.
Yeah, they're having me and let's see Brooklyn 112 As your
resident conspiracy therapists, so Hey, brother to help us how
he is going through a natural progression. See, Brooklyn's?
Like, maybe the music spoke to him. No, no, don't don't I don't
think you need to look too far into this.
Dave Jones: yet. I think you're right. When when the same thing
happened with noster Olson, he, you know, starts getting blasted
with Chinese spam. Yeah. Once that stuff starts, man, I mean,
it's such a bad day. It's just such crap.
Adam Curry: And you know, and exactly. And now that is the,
you know, I hear Sam Sethi complaining about the spam
advertising. A doesn't have a filter on on Al B, these are all
the things those guys we're looking at. I mean, I mean, span
vertising. Yeah, it may be cute, but I can see all the problems
with that.
Dave Jones: Ah, there's a call. There's a cost to every
transaction thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the other the other thing in
the namespace was deprecation. So as of split off, there's now
a deprecation proposals section in the discussion forum. So if
somebody if any, does any discussion, any talk about
deprecating a tag or getting rid of an attribute or anything like
that? Let's move it all over there.
Adam Curry: Ah, this is James's, get it out of the namespace
part.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yes. So we'll we'll talk about all that. And
it. I'm cool with him in a formal deprecation section. That
way we can talk about because I mean, there's I'm fine with
deprecating things but we need to move price segregate that off
into its own thing so that we can because deprecation is flame
war city.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that belongs listen little section of the
city. Yeah, because
Dave Jones: everybody's gonna get pissed at each other. That's
not that's so let's keep let's just kind of isolate it.
Adam Curry: Let me read off a couple of we got a lot of people
responding through boosted grams. We don't even have to
start the segment here. But let me just run down the list. See
Brooklyn 112 with a nice row ducks brother 22,002 and 22.
Let's keep this going boys. Okay, good. So the conspiracy
therapy worked. net net 30,000 SATs Merry Xmas movie house I
mean boardroom. There Steven with 1000 SATs we just read that
one Sam Sethi has been boosting all along 10,000 SATs if hosts
would support alternate enclosure and video. Then true
fans would not have to offer this feature. We could just read
it from the RSS feed. Well, yes. Sam. Sam likes doing things
backwards. Blueberries and forums video podcasting, but not
also the enclosure. Does any host support alternate
enclosure? Except sovereign fees has it now. This power press had
we'll see what Sam is doing is interesting. I'm not sure I
agree with this method. But it's It's fine by me. i What I've
liked is we come up with an idea. And then it goes typically
into the podcasting 2.0 Feed first, because Steven bells just
crazy and he builds everything. And then from there, tags flow
out and stuff starts to happen. Now the alternate enclosure is
already a tag I believe, as had been a tag or it's not official
Dave Jones: title yet. No, it's in there. It's been in there.
Yep. So Sam likes
Adam Curry: to give people these features before they're in the
feeds. Yes. Which is a way to do it. Peer
Dave Jones: tube supports alternate enclosure.
Adam Curry: Right. So
Dave Jones: and disk topia does,
Adam Curry: so but I can tell you right now blueberries never
going to do alternate enclosure. So just forget it. Todd doesn't
want to do it. That's his prerogative.
Dave Jones: Yeah, he will. He will
Adam Curry: know he won't know he won't. I it's it's his own
business reasons.
Dave Jones: It will wear him down we want.
Adam Curry: I'm not gonna wear him down. I'm like, gotta be
part of that.
Dave Jones: outtake I'll take the bait.
Adam Curry: I mean, I'm, I'm publishing I'm going to start
publishing alternate enclosures for sure.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna send him Christmas presents.
Adam Curry: Send him a stream deck. It works wonders.
Dave Jones: No.
Adam Curry: Well, this is weird because typically he's the
delimiter but we got 10,000 SATs from CSV just 15 minutes ago.
Marry pod met podcast mess podcasting. 2.0 Yo, CSB. We got
another Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATs is not a video hack is using
YouTube as a free host next week we will offer free video hosting
on on true fans so we will host directly before IPFS. Well, I
will say the YouTube stuff is much easier on a web app than it
is in a in a native app for sure, because you can just do an
iframe or whatever or just or just embedded I guess the
embedded tag look
Dave Jones: Todd said in the chat for you to pace maybe
alternate enclosure sees already cracking Wow
Adam Curry: take the stream deck back the cracks
Dave Jones: the cracks are already forming Oh, he's a
pushover I
Adam Curry: got that was easy nothing but now are you seeing
Bagon 1111 Thank you OYSTEIN Merry Christmas to you phantom
power. That's from the Phantom Power Hour. 1000 SATs Dobby Das
is the bee's knees D and there's Dobby das with 1000 SATs with
his says that video worked on all of the apps 7500 from Dolby
das download downloads are really the best podcast metric
according to Opie three. Podcasting. 2.0 has a massive
fan base in Nepal. That's right.
Dave Jones: We're huge in Nepal. at base camp, everybody listens
to us at base camp before they climb K two as
Adam Curry: well. We need that out T shirt. We're big in Nepal.
Dave Jones: I think we are literally big in Nepal. Nepalese
with a very small people.
Adam Curry: 10,000 SATs from Sam again evening from the UK true
fans is now open to all fans and live congratulations on the land
and the launches. And we've been waiting for this for a long
time. I know you have for sure. So we'd love that man. Another
1000 SATs from phantom power. What's up fellas? Happy Friday,
then we have oh, okay. This is Todd with 10,000 SATs. This is
his analysis of numbers very simple. And why most hosts stats
are down. It's largely tied to two things. Those that count of
download after 60 seconds of media delivered and the window
of time one looks at to qualify a download. Remember the IAB
spec and those certified only have to meet the guidelines and
not exceed the guidelines. tie that to Apple 17 changes are the
two Apple podcasts was a recipe for decline to those trying to
extract maximum downloads. Yeah. Which means it was the whole
thing is scammy. The whole industry is CME. Yeah, I gotcha.
We understand that. metus 5000 SATs is too late to set up a
boardroom Secret Santa gift exchange. Oh, well after that
for next year, I think. Yeah, I think next year, next year, next
year. Then we have the 25,000. From SAS that's from Todd that I
mentioned. And I think what's Linkin Park? Park rules 10,000
SATs have you guys checked out what pod home has been doing on
the hosting side? As a customer? It's been amazing to have access
to so many tools and tags. We'd love for them to make an
appearance on the show by IE. Yeah, for sure. Yeah,
definitely. Definitely.
Dave Jones: A few people I wanted to my my sort of guests
booking strategy for
Adam Curry: which has been lagging has been
Dave Jones: a strategy for the last month and a half has been
no strategy.
Adam Curry: Just no go no book, anybody. I love doing the
boardroom just the two of us. I mean, it's nice to have a guest
on but i i and this is my end of week therapy brother. I love
this.
Dave Jones: We needed we needed a guest break. We needed his
brain break and we needed to get a break. Yes. But my strategy
coming up is we'll have some podcast, podcast errs on and
then also Yeah, for Barry. I'm at pod home gonna get him on
Yeah, we get back in the swing of things. Yeah. I don't like
having guests on two weeks in a row. That's No, no,
Adam Curry: no, no, that's no good. No good. Yeah.
Dave Jones: We did. Or we think of people who want to go into
that. What
Adam Curry: did you have anything else on that? Have we
tackled all of the things that we needed to talk about? Not all
the other thing, what else do you have on your list? Well,
Dave Jones: I gotta get. I don't know if I want to get into that
necessarily.
Adam Curry: Tell me what it is that we're not going to get
into. So I can remember.
Dave Jones: It's aggregator stuff. And
Adam Curry: I gotta tell you been wanting to rewrite it,
haven't you?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I have but also sort of read, do the
structure of it. I have a drawn out a way I think sort of mapped
out a way that it can be decentralized. We can
decentralize the aggregation. But it's a big topic. It's too
we don't have enough time to go into
Adam Curry: all this also not something we start just before
the holidays. No, no projects for the holidays as bad ideas.
Dave Jones: It's like no change Fridays. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Exactly. But
Dave Jones: I guess the other thing is search improvements.
And this is this is tied to my now you know nor nor me. habit
of listening to the Gilmore Girls podcast is so this this.
This podcast is called I am all in. Do you first of all, as an
avid Gilmore Girls fan? Do you get this reference?
Adam Curry: Yes, I have my own Gilmore Girls story in a moment.
Dave Jones: Okay. This, I feel like I should be drinking a
grande flat wire from Starbucks right now. But the so the name
of this podcast is I am all in. So if you search for Gilmore
Girls in the podcast index, you do not get this podcast back.
Oh, nothing about this podcast is findable even though it is an
official podcast? You know, like for the show, it's well, that's
odd. Because it doesn't say Gilmore Girls anywhere. Any of
the index indexable things. So this
Adam Curry: is a this is a search problem,
Dave Jones: search problem. So I was thinking, we probably need
to have some way to add in some extra metadata in the dashboard.
So that if somebody notices a problem like this, I really
wanted to be able to go into the dashboard, find this podcast,
and type in a few extra keywords, Gilmore Girls, or
whatever. So that now so that the index can have some more
data to work with. Okay, that's all
Adam Curry: you want? I'm gonna give you my Gilmore Girls story.
Yeah, go for this was our COVID lockdown binge.
Dave Jones: Now it's a great binge.
Adam Curry: So yes, good. I was on the TV almost all day for no
agenda. You know, looking at every single new statement,
press conference, everything. I was just obsessed with figuring
out what was going on. And, but then at night, we'd watch the
Gilmore Girls. And somewhere in August of 2020, there was a no
agenda meetup in Las Vegas. It was the super spreader event.
And by the wait, no one was sick. No one got sick after this
event is and so we're there and there's this guy who had driven
from LA and I'm talking to him. And he says, Yeah, I was an
actor and I got out the business. I was just sick and
tired of it. And, you know, I've been doing I've been been
coaching people on some stuff and and I was like this, and
this maybe 6065 people there. And I'm just hooking this guy
and I'm like, you know, said, Hey, have I seen you in
anything? He says it's been a while. I don't know. Maybe not.
I played Rory. He's dad on Gilmore Girls.
Dave Jones: Oh,
Adam Curry: I'm like way. I went, oh my god, your worries
dad. And I started Sandra. He's dead. As Chris Chris. David
Sutcliffe is his name. And he has a podcast. And he actually
moved to Austin. Not long after that. So I was it was the
weirdest thing. I had an actual moment that many people have
done to me. I did it to him like
Dave Jones: this, what is what is his podcast? What is his
name? Crazy. But
Adam Curry: David David Sutcliffe. David Sutcliffe?
Dave Jones: Search and index fund is yeah,
Adam Curry: this psycho sphere. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Yeah. David Sutcliffe?
Dave Jones: Oh, it's current to he's doing it. Yeah. Return of
the Jew is the name of one of his episodes.
Adam Curry: He's pretty cool, man. He's got a shot. He's not
value for value, though. We should get him on value.
Dave Jones: He's not acting anymore. He now he's just he's,
he's in the podcast industrial complex.
Adam Curry: He actually he does. What is the what is the term?
likes he does sessions with multiple people, mainly women, I
think and they, you know, they do weekends and retreats and
they talk about their feelings. And
Dave Jones: does it my job is I do weekend retreats with women.
Adam Curry: I'm not saying it. Right. Like workshops, you know,
for for mental workshops and stuff. He's He's certified the
stuff he really got into that.
Dave Jones: Oh, cool. Okay, Nate. I'll
Adam Curry: check it out. Yeah, now he's cool. He's a cool,
dude. He's cool, dude.
Dave Jones: That's all this was. Thanks. Some people. Yes. Okay.
Adam Curry: I had one more that came in, actually to Carolyn
12,000 SATs. Merry Christmas. Adam and Dave love to see video
on pod verse. It's so cool. It is very cool. And Mike Newman
17,910 Big ups for the whole crew starting with musicians for
the innovation fueled by next week's concerts. The response to
updating the podcast index features for apps has been
really great. We point people to that it needs to show the
current capabilities much better now go podcasting. Was you mean
that the response updating PIs features for apps? Not quite
sure what he means by that?
Dave Jones: Is that how quickly I deploy things to the website.
I think that's what he means. I've been trying to be faster
about that what I had been doing in the past was waiting is sort
of batching them all up to date and then pushing them out every
day
Adam Curry: all you know, all in one go.
Dave Jones: But people are adding stuff fast now. So I'm
trying to to be be quicker. But once you know, as soon as I see
a couple of pull requests, I'm trying to push it immediately.
Adam Curry: And right at the end, here, right on the cusp.
45,678 45678 Dred Scott Merry Christmas to Bruce waited for
our podcast in 2.0. Thank you, brother with a nice little
Christmas tree and present emoji. Thank you. No,
Dave Jones: thanks, Jared. Get we got some pay pals we get?
Bigger the devil Todd and the boys of blueberry and the girls
at blueberry $300. Wow.
Adam Curry: Sakala blades on am Paula. I just like to remind
everybody that when he talked about the value for value model,
this is all this is what we do. We started this from zero over
three years ago, and we said it has to be valued for value and
be heard on numbers. We don't even make the cut for
advertising. Yeah. But you know, we have a project that goes
along with this. And so it's not just the podcast, it's the whole
project. And people are supporting it and this is exact
this is the the exact model and it's a beautiful mix of Fiat fun
coupons. Pay Pal and and Satoshis and booster grams. The
feedback loop is apparent we are eating our own dog food here,
people it really does work. And it's not because some old ex
Vijay had some kind of name for himself, believe me. It's not
it's not it. In fact, a lot of people were like, What are these
nut jobs doing? Free speech? crypto. That's how it started.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. You know, Leo, are you going to do 2.0? No. Oh,
yeah. But not doing that crap.
Adam Curry: Now. Now he's. Now he's trying to do twit. Twit
Club was $7 a month, man open it up. To let a little Yep. Take it
take the lid off. Let people support you however they want to
with whatever amount that's that's your saving grace
brother. That's the way to go.
Dave Jones: You know, I told you I told the guys at ATP. Take
Take the lid off. And and take the cap off your monthly
membership. And they did. Oh, and now you can give them as
much as you want. Oh, excellent. Yeah. Twit needs to do the same
thing. Take take the cap off. It's not official and it's
weird.
Adam Curry: It's weird. Like no, don't send me more money. No,
no.
Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you. Is eaten taught and the team at
blueberry? Merry Christmas for the blueberry team. Dave time to
get busy on the namespace. Happy podcasting? Yes. We get busy
that we
Adam Curry: had the namespace hot talk today Christmas
version. That to get busy.
Dave Jones: Okay, so we got out we got another Oh, we this is
from another word from Todd $50. From New Media Productions. Hey,
Adam and Dave Todd here, had my main podcast into OneNote dev at
a conference this week. And he will be back Monday to fix the
value time split bugs we found in final testing. So fingers
crossed on VTS for next week. All right. Nice. Thank
Adam Curry: you. Thank you. Thank you. So good. As good
knows we love that. Yes.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Todd and the team at blueberry and Lina
also very active over there. Thank you to her. We get up in
1984 4000 SATs from fountains is just for clarification, or just
a clarification my blogpost about set based advertising did
not involve paying listeners. It was just an idea for how
advertisers could buy ad space on podcast using SATs in a way
that would give the hosts control over the ads on their
content. Sorry for not making that clear in my previous
message.
Adam Curry: No, that's cool. Yeah,
Dave Jones: no apologies required no bad career advice.
Chad central Richard 1111 through fountain career.
Podcasting 2.0 podcast poll. Is Spotify a centralized pile of
music industry insider turd like for yes reply for no. Oh,
another bad career advice chat and other sensitive Richard's
through fancy says I think one of the challenges of adoption of
the boosting ecosystem is the fact that people have to think
about things in terms of wallets and transfers and Satoshis. It
would be cool if River and fountain could partner up to
have automatic Bitcoin bys where it funds both a cold wallet and
a lightning wallet at the same time. That way people have some
spending money, but also putting saps away in their long term pay
The Bank
Adam Curry: yeah there's there's problems as money changer
transmitter problems. It's more the legality of it all then then
the technical issues. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on
there. You
Dave Jones: know, the big the big player in this in this whole
thing that is sort of missing from this all together a strike.
Yeah, yeah, strike could do this. I feel like could do this
quickly.
Adam Curry: You know who I saw a Channel show up. BTC swan has a
channel channel with the index.
Dave Jones: Swan. Swan Bitcoin. Yes. Change?
Adam Curry: Yeah. So things are moving. You're planning? Well, I
don't know. But there's plenty of opportunity. As you said,
there's so much opportunity to offer services into these apps.
And the apps just have a little a little button. There's
opportunity, and it'll come it's all going to come. That's all
they will they will
Dave Jones: SLS SLC
Adam Curry: SLC SLC SLC. Yeah, SLC
Dave Jones: 12345 sets through fountain This is what are some
reasons that of 2.0 app would prevent listener listening or
downloading while on a VPN? This happened to me less than a year
ago, I tried all VPN protocols and options, no dice. I even got
confirmation for the 2.0 def team, that this was on their
end, but said they wouldn't share why they were doing it for
security route. What
Adam Curry: what Deb Tino did is that you?
Dave Jones: I'm not a team. It
Adam Curry: all depends on your, on your VPN. I mean, that's,
that's it, the VPN is going to determine what what can come
through or not.
Dave Jones: Don't tell us what app it is. Yeah, that way we
could get there was a another one. Another was an issue for a
while with IPFS. over VPN. Yeah, that was the gateways were
blocking.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Well, IPFS so funny. ipfs.io In general,
you know, very often now I see a spam email come through and
I'll, you know, I'll hover the link. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's
gonna download something from ipfs.io. Yeah, no wonder those
guys got killed off by about a lot of spam, spam bots or
speaking, firewalls.
Dave Jones: Speaking of blocking things, did you see where
threads started federating with the fediverse and then
immediately blocked noster. No,
Adam Curry: wait, it? What is Nasir on the fediverse? What do
you mean? Yeah, it's
Dave Jones: the, you know, the bridge the most or bridge? Oh,
really? Yes, threads, threads started federating. And then
immediately blocked the nostril bridge communication.
Adam Curry: I have this weird observation. Because I've been
studying social media for of course, from the first day when
Twitter launched as Twitter and our micro blogging platform
instead of a podcast company. And six years ago, I started no
agenda social.com the mastodon site about 656 years ago.
Without like, a proto person, like MySpace, arguably a social
network,
Dave Jones: Moto person, that's a great term.
Adam Curry: Everybody had Tom as their friend. Remember? Do you
remember that? The guy who started MySpace and name was
Tom. So when you started a MySpace account, you had Tom
that was your first friend. Okay. And with face bag.
Zuckerberg was kind of a big guy on there in the beginning, of
course, we had ever had and later Jack Dorsey with Twitter.
And now Elon Musk and with threads you know, Zuckerberg
hasn't posted in a month and not even see it on no agenda. I've
stopped posting no agenda social because it's it's a crap hit. Me
Oh,
Dave Jones: you're the Tom have no agenda. Social. Yes. And
Adam Curry: I think what happens is when there's no no singular,
or it can be it doesn't have to be one but one or two persons of
authority who you know, has some power to kick you off. I think
people just lose lose all sense of decorum. And it just becomes
just it becomes crappy. And and there's something about the
proto person of a social network that has to be there. And you
know, and Jack was that for Nasr, but I feel that Jack has
pulled back Yeah, which means he hasn't given anybody any more
money. And I think it's that that's you know, there's there's
no person but Oh, yeah. Oh, Jack, he follows me. He tagged
me Jack, Jack Jack. And I think that is it's somehow it's
critical to survival of social networks.
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's when there's no adult in the room.
Yeah. Yes. When there's no adult in the room Yeah, exactly,
buddy, everybody. Everybody goes feral. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And I think that threads suffers from
that and that's not Instagram is not true. And Tik Tok is not
true. Those are outliers for some reason. Well,
Dave Jones: they were fair already.
Adam Curry: They started off Farrell. Right. Yeah, exactly.
Anyway, I've just observation. Yeah, that's
Dave Jones: that's this feel it feels very true. Say 20 220 2220
vagaro. Doug's from Dave Jackson. Thank you, Dave. Do
cast medic he says a great episode that left me no choice
but to boost and share. Right you didn't know you were forced
to graduate by the IRS 1776. Through fountain he says I still
prefer z. This is just listening. He said I still
prefer chapters and boost to be separate. I use the chapters tab
and found unlike a content index tab, in the Activity tab to
check out boosts almost like the comment section with boosts and
chapters. It gets cluttered. Anyhow, not complaining. And I
guess that's up to apps. Hey, looking forward to AngelList
concert. Yes,
Adam Curry: and I keep publishing this same way through
the through Spurlock's interface. And I know pod verse
has implemented a switch. And I'm not sure about other apps,
but I'm really only doing it for people to integrate the switch.
Because believe me, I get I get I from time to time I get a
really angry email about it. And I keep saying, you know, that
should be an app theme because I'm publishing those as those
TOC equals false so they should not be in your end.